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Be honest; you really think Zach Wilson is going make a difference?


Paradis
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Yes Given this sieve at LT Zach does have some mobility so I think that can and will make a difference. 
Receivers are open but Flacco doesn’t move around enough to buy not even a second of extra time to find them 

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I'll give you a serious take here; YES, I think Zach can make a difference assuming he's anywhere close to the player advertised when drafted.  Which is what makes this question so challenging.  Anybody's guess is as good as mine about who he'll be this year.  I can easily jive with either side of the debate, he is what he is, or now lets see him in another year w/ weaponz but in the hypothetical scenario, he's 80% of advertised?  Then yes, he could come in and make a difference.   Which I'm sure would lead to the question how?   So let me share...

We're all frustrated with the D, myself included, hell, I've seen enough and I'm ready to clean house but that said, while there will be some bang'em, dust up, defensive games in this league, the best teams in the league dictate the game on offense.  The Jets cant do that with Joe Flacco because he's pure garbage, like just utter trash and shouldnt be playing Football anymore.  He's is currently completing 48% of his passes on 3rd down.  He's 20 for 41 on the season.  And it's not better on 1st down which is supposed to be the high percentage down, he's completing 53% of his passes.  But 3rd down is killing this offense, his in ability to feel pressure, move, not get stripped sacked, etc. is a crutch on the offense.  It's asinine how bad he is when he has to hold the all over 2.5 seconds.  He goes from 63% comp to 48% comp and it speaks to his inability to create or doing anything that requires motion. 

Some other aspects of the game that are atrocious and Zach should hypothetically help; the Jets have run 10 play actions the entire season and they have run 1, RPO, which is shocking but I guess they ran it once with Flacco.   His 1st quarter stats are abysmal.  Flacco in the 1st quarter is completing, 45% of his passes for 95 yards and zero TD's.  RedZone; while Joe has actually thrown almost all of his TD's from the RedZone, he's currently completing 39% of his passes in the RZ.  These are the statistics of a completely ineffective QB.  In a league driven by offense, it's impossible to sustain or create any type of momentum when you're that crippled at QB and it definitely has a trickle down effect on the D.  They havent had a lead all season, playing from behind, if Zach can help them answer more regularly, occasionally giving the D a lead to work with, yes, I think he can technically make a difference.  

 

 

Excellent post. Zach has all the physical tools to succeed. The question remains can he process the game intelligently and calmly especially since the Ol appears to be in shambles.  If he progresses in that area over what he was last year , there's no doubt he can be a quality NFL QB.   I know many here have their doubts , I'm a believer until I'm forced not to. 

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I think the offense will overall be about as effective but the way it happens will change.  I think we will see more big plays that Flacco has left on the table but less “matriculation” down the field. 

My biggest hope is that Zach’s feet help in the red zone.

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7 hours ago, Paradis said:

Lets talk about this for a second....

How long have we've been reactive/keep up football? 15 years?... 20? 

Think about it. When was the last time the Jets dictated the score... Win or lose, you (the opponet) were gonna have to roll up your sleeves and throw down against the Jets. We have been "trying to keep up" with NFL offenses since Vinny. 

I would say 12 years.  During Rex's first couple of seasons, the Jets dictated play.  You knew we were going to play tough defense, run the ball, get after your QB.  Other team had to react to what we were going to do.  Teams with great QBs like Manning and Brady were still able to get us out of our games at times, but for the most part we dictated play.

But is is awfully hard to dictate play when you are always behind.  As I mentioned in another thread yesterday, going back to last season, we are the worst defense in the league on opponents opening possession.  We have given up points in 13 of our last 17 opening possessions (76%)-- league average is about 38%.  9 of those 13 scores are TDs more than double the league average of about 24%.  And we have not been much better on second drives.  Our offense is about league average on opening possessions, but defense is dead last.  2 possessions in and we are generally down 7-10 points.

I really expected a team built around defense and running game this year.  I thought we would have a solid OL (until we lost three tackles and Tomlinson seemingly forgot how to play).  Run the ball, play action, occasional shots down field, hold teams to 24 or less and try to win games in Q4.

We have barely tried to establish the run early, and completely abandoned it after we get behind.  Defense allows us to fall behind and the offense panics into throwing the ball 75% of the time.  You don't need to abandon the run when you are down 10 in the 2nd or 3rd quarter.  But we do.  We become one dimensional behind what is now a banged up OL, and that is a recipe for disaster.

Hopefully we will be better with Zach, but there are so many flaws on this team right now beyond just the QB that I don't see it changing soon.  And most of it, imo, begins with coaching.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

My takeaway is that there’s a reason they’re going to limit Zach Wilson pass attempts and that reason is that more Zach Wilson pass attempts will result in a lot more depressing Zach Wilson plays. I get that toads like @JiFapono want to pre-insulate themselves when Zach is throwing up 145 yard passing games all season, but I think the fact that Wilson not being given the opportunity to put 300 yards on the board (despite the low YPA) is a legitimate red flag. Wilson has to produce TDs and points. The team averaged 16 ppg when he started last year and 25+ when he didn’t. Mostly, I took offense to your post because it supported @JiFapono. **** that guy.

2 things;

1. I said it would be very Jetsy to let Flacco throw for 50 attempts a game and then not let Zach do it.  I'm not asking  them to neuter him, penis face.

2. You need to get over it.  Just because I'll sleep with anyone on the site but you, doesnt give you the right to be abusive. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Lith said:

I would say 12 years.  During Rex's first couple of seasons, the Jets dictated play.  You knew we were going to play tough defense, run the ball, get after your QB.  Other team had to react to what we were going to do.  Teams with great QBs like Manning and Brady were still able to get us out of our games at times, but for the most part we dictated play.

But is is awfully hard to dictate play when you are always behind.  As I mentioned in another thread yesterday, going back to last season, we are the worst defense in the league on opponents opening possession.  We have given up points in 13 of our last 17 opening possessions (76%)-- league average is about 38%.  9 of those 13 scores are TDs more than double the league average of about 24%.  And we have not been much better on second drives.  Our offense is about league average on opening possessions, but defense is dead last.  2 possessions in and we are generally down 7-10 points.

I really expected a team built around defense and running game this year.  I thought we would have a solid OL (until we lost three tackles and Tomlinson seemingly forgot how to play).  Run the ball, play action, occasional shots down field, hold teams to 24 or less and try to win games in Q4.

We have barely tried to establish the run early, and completely abandoned it after we get behind.  Defense allows us to fall behind and the offense panics into throwing the ball 75% of the time.  You don't need to abandon the run when you are down 10 in the 2nd or 3rd quarter.  But we do.  We become one dimensional behind what is now a banged up OL, and that is a recipe for disaster.

Hopefully we will be better with Zach, but there are so many flaws on this team right now beyond just the QB that I don't see it changing soon.  And most of it, imo, begins with coaching.

 

 

Another good post. And I agree playing with a lead would be highly beneficial. This is one of the reasons I can't stand when the Jets win the coin toss and defer, as in most cases the D yields an opening drive for a score.  On Sun the Bengals won the toss took the ball and promptly scored , I wish we would do that at least once. 

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19 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

2 things;

1. I said it would be very Jetsy to let Flacco throw for 50 attempts a game and then not let Zach do it.  I'm not asking  them to neuter him, penis face.

2. You need to get over it.  Just because I'll sleep with anyone on the site but you, doesnt give you the right to be abusive. 

 

I have been bested here

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13 hours ago, Beerfish said:

- He will be better than Flacco

- Like it or hate it he is our guy for a few more years, forget even talking about drafting a qb this coming year.

- Our craptacular underachieving defense is the biggest problem on this team

"He will be better than Flacco" .... I just don't know this to be true.  Nothing about how he performed last year can back this up and his limited action in preseason can't back this up so to say he will be better is just hoping he is.  

I want him to be better and I want him to succeed but I have to see it first and right now I can't say confidently that he will be better than him.  

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3 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Zach did the same thing last year in garbage time, no?

Most Jet games whether it be Saleh, Gase, Bowles “coaching” have lots and lots of garbage time, so it’s tough to elevate Any QB when looking at their stats and point to one of them and say “he’s the hands down best to play”.  Flacco was pretty much Never “in” Any of these 3 games he started.  I’m not going to bash him either.  He has his Super Bowl ring that he definitely earned.  I saw him throw a ball about 70 yards INTO the wind with Baltimore and if he doesn’t complete it Baltimore goes home with no trip to the Super Bowl.  But Flacco shouldn’t be starting at this stage of his career.

Wilson has to duplicate the quality of game and the impressive quality of throws he made All game long when almost beating Brady with a decimated offense surrounding him, somewhat consistently with more help at the skill positions.

If he can’t, then it’s back to Square One.

If he gets injured once again, then it’s probably back to Square One.

All this with what looks like a Totally, Totally outclassed “coaching” staff behind Wilson every week.

Tough being a Jet fan.  It pretty much just Never gets better, even when you think it will.

Example, off on a tangent now, the f…in D Line, all the money invested in it, one of the worst in the league.

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7 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I'll give you a serious take here; YES, I think Zach can make a difference assuming he's anywhere close to the player advertised when drafted.  Which is what makes this question so challenging.  Anybody's guess is as good as mine about who he'll be this year.  I can easily jive with either side of the debate, he is what he is, or now lets see him in another year w/ weaponz but in the hypothetical scenario, he's 80% of advertised?  Then yes, he could come in and make a difference.   Which I'm sure would lead to the question how?   So let me share...

We're all frustrated with the D, myself included, hell, I've seen enough and I'm ready to clean house but that said, while there will be some bang'em, dust up, defensive games in this league, the best teams in the league dictate the game on offense.  The Jets cant do that with Joe Flacco because he's pure garbage, like just utter trash and shouldnt be playing Football anymore.  He's is currently completing 48% of his passes on 3rd down.  He's 20 for 41 on the season.  And it's not better on 1st down which is supposed to be the high percentage down, he's completing 53% of his passes.  But 3rd down is killing this offense, his in ability to feel pressure, move, not get stripped sacked, etc. is a crutch on the offense.  It's asinine how bad he is when he has to hold the all over 2.5 seconds.  He goes from 63% comp to 48% comp and it speaks to his inability to create or doing anything that requires motion. 

Some other aspects of the game that are atrocious and Zach should hypothetically help; the Jets have run 10 play actions the entire season and they have run 1, RPO, which is shocking but I guess they ran it once with Flacco.   His 1st quarter stats are abysmal.  Flacco in the 1st quarter is completing, 45% of his passes for 95 yards and zero TD's.  RedZone; while Joe has actually thrown almost all of his TD's from the RedZone, he's currently completing 39% of his passes in the RZ.  These are the statistics of a completely ineffective QB.  In a league driven by offense, it's impossible to sustain or create any type of momentum when you're that crippled at QB and it definitely has a trickle down effect on the D.  They havent had a lead all season, playing from behind, if Zach can help them answer more regularly, occasionally giving the D a lead to work with, yes, I think he can technically make a difference.  

 

 

I don’t want to present as dismissive, because all of the things you’ve articulated are true and will have an impact on the overall quality of play on the field, in addition to opening up the playbook and all that kind of stuff…

but….

that doesn’t imply that the team will suddenly “act like they’ve been there before” to borrow an expression. We don’t appear to be coached prepared and organized in a way that Mike Tomlin, Harbaugh, Andy Reid, etc. etc. and others have their teams showing up. Reid’s teams look the part whether it was Alex Smith, Pat Mahomes, or uncle Rico… So there’s a gap there and it’s pretty big for the Jets 

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

If he has the makings of a FQB, he will elevate the team around him. Not saying that means he’s gotta make the playoffs but it’s time to demonstrate he has “it.”

You just summed things up perfectly. This should appear in every thread when people begin to make excuses for him.

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2 hours ago, Paradis said:

I don’t want to present as dismissive, because all of the things you’ve articulated are true and will have an impact on the overall quality of play on the field, in addition to opening up the playbook and all that kind of stuff…

but….

that doesn’t imply that the team will suddenly “act like they’ve been there before” to borrow an expression. We don’t appear to be coached prepared and organized in a way that Mike Tomlin, Harbaugh, Andy Reid, etc. etc. and others have their teams showing up. Reid’s teams look the part whether it was Alex Smith, Pat Mahomes, or uncle Rico… So there’s a gap there and it’s pretty big for the Jets 

I wouldnt call this dismissive but I dont know what you're looking for anymore. lol 

You asked if Zach could make a difference and I explained how he could but if you're asking me if Zach can turn Robert Saleh into a veteran Head Coach w/ Super Bowl wins, well then no, he cant do that because that's impossible.  For better or worse, we're along for the Robert Saleh learning how to be a Head Coach ride.  If/when that light goes off, could be debated but even with all that said, if Zach is able to help the team improve in many of those areas that are currently huge concerns, well he might just make the coaching staff look better but I'm not holding my breath for any of these things. 

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2 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

You just summed things up perfectly. This should appear in every thread when people begin to make excuses for him.

They'll just say I set unrealistic expectations that he can never meet because I want him to fail and for the Jets to blow forever

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It's quite possible he will. He's far more mobile, most of the time, which is good with the banged up line. It could lead at least to less three and outs. Teams also have to keep ZW from scrambling for yards. ZW coming back should make a big difference. The d may come alive if the o shows some life.

 

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Zach has mobility, will try throws downfield that Flacco won’t, and got closer to game manager levels at the end of last season with a poor supporting cast.

Zach also holds onto the ball (3+ seconds), doesn’t protect himself well, and has shown inconsistency on the simple move the chains plays.

As a Jets fan it’s tough to know what to expect when he gets back on to the field.

I’m guessing if Zach plays vs. Pittsburgh they will pressure Zach and try to trick Zach on some of the quick throws to mess with his confidence.  

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1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

I think the team is going to be worse with Zach. 

I'm actually worried about his safety not gonna lie. 9 months since he last played competitive football outside of what 3 pre-season snaps and now Fant is out?

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

I'm actually worried about his safety not gonna lie. 9 months since he last played competitive football outside of what 3 pre-season snaps and now Fant is out?

He holds the ball too long and takes too long to make decisions. With the current oline it’s going to be ugly. 

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