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Jets have setup Zach to fail


ganggreen305

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3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

^ This.  Good QBs can deal with OL struggles and still be productive. Ppl here are starting in with the Zach excuses before he even takes a snap.  If he's any good, he'll play through the OL struggles.

What’s the #1 reason people have given for Mahomes losing to TB in the SB?  Brady losing to the Giants?  
It’s not an excuse, QBs struggle more under duress.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

What’s the #1 reason people have given for Mahomes losing to TB in the SB?  Brady losing to the Giants?  
It’s not an excuse, QBs struggle more under duress.

Of course.  And the good QBs prevail through it. The crappy ones don't.  This board acts like the NY Jets are the only team with OL issues.  Please...   No Zach excuses....  certainly not before he even takes a snap.  Good lord.

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46 minutes ago, ganggreen305 said:

I am pulling for Zach big time.  I like the kid.  He has real talent, but every time he is in there, something is going on with the Jets.  Do you guys really think he will prosper behind this makeshift piece of crap offensive line?  Really?  Then he comes back this week and gets killed and looks bad and what have we accomplished.  I am a huge fan of Joe D, but he has botched this O line big time.  Are we going to really find out what we have in Zach this year?  Not until we have a legit O Line and the kid isn't running for his life.  So frustrating man.  Get if fixed Joe D! 

I've concluded that JD is not capable of fixing the O'line. This is 100% on him now.

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7 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Of course.  And the good QBs prevail through it. The crappy ones don't.  This board acts like the NY Jets are the only team with OL issues.  Please...   No Zach excuses....  certainly not before he even takes a snap.  Good lord.

Yet Brady, the all time GOAT and Mahomes the current GOAT couldn’t prevail.  It’s not an excuse, QBs struggle with pressure, it affects their games.   Thats a fact.  That’s why teams try to get pressure and why it’s not an excuse, it’s something QBs have to deal with.  Just if he’s constantly being hit it’s going to affect anyone’s game but it’s part of the game.  

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10 minutes ago, Lith said:

This.  Even if we are down to a 4th string LT, or a banged up Fant trying to survive.  How about a game plan that features the running game, short drops and getting the ball out quickly.  Other teams have done it to us.  We actually have WRs who can get open and a couple of tightends and RBs who can catch.  Feature those guys.  Build a game plan to the situation and let Zach try to execute it.  No excuses.

Great post. Wilson has two backs who can turn a 3 yard out or screen into a big gain. No defense can take away every weapon we have at our disposal.  Question. Do we have the QB and play caller who can get it done.

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It will be tough but we aren't the only team who has these problems.  I expect Zach to get sacked.  I won't be mad at Zach if he gets sacked because of a blown assignment from the LT.  However, it's the other plays which will evaluate whether we have a franchise QB or not.  Let's see him strive when he does have a clean pocket.  When he is under pressure what decisions will he make?  Just because the OL has injuries and is bad doesn't mean Zach can't perform up to the standards we expect given the situation.  

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yet Brady, the all time GOAT and Mahomes the current GOAT couldn’t.  It’s not an excuse, QBs struggle with pressure, it affects their games.   That’s why teams try to get pressure and why it’s not an excuse, it’s something QBs have to deal with.  Just if he’s constantly being hit it’s going to effect anyone’s game

Oh please... Tom Brady won lots of games even with injuries to his OL.  Mahomes as well.  Every good QB in the NFL makes it through OL problems.  The excuses here are pathetic.  If we didn't draft Hall and Wilson, people here would be starting threads about excusing Zach because he has no 'weaponz' as well, but since the draft, they can't do so...  but they'll always have the OL to blame for Zach's crappy play, right?   It's this forum's ultimate excuse for our terrible QBs.  

Good QBs manage to produce even when their OLs have issues.  Bad QBs don't.  We'll see what Zach is. No excuses.

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49 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We all are, even those of us pessimistic about him.

I don't know him.  For me it isn't about like/dislike.

With all that talent, I think he should do as well or better than the guy he is replacing.

We'd be playing the #2 pick and "seeing what we got". 

Which, so I'm told, is what 2022 is all about.

Indeed.  He's had several years, and it's hard to say the O-line is better than it was the day he got here.

I hope so.  I don't want to waste yet another year "finding out what we got".

So you're already of the view that we cannot evaluate Zach till 2023?  And even then only if we have a great O-line?

It is indeed.

If we're in a position to take Stroud ..... we take Stroud.... don't be dumb fellow Jets fans.

Let em duel it out.... if a QB is to soft for competition they shouldn't  be the QB

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54 minutes ago, ganggreen305 said:

I am pulling for Zach big time.  I like the kid.  He has real talent, but every time he is in there, something is going on with the Jets.  Do you guys really think he will prosper behind this makeshift piece of crap offensive line?  Really?  Then he comes back this week and gets killed and looks bad and what have we accomplished.  I am a huge fan of Joe D, but he has botched this O line big time.  Are we going to really find out what we have in Zach this year?  Not until we have a legit O Line and the kid isn't running for his life.  So frustrating man.  Get if fixed Joe D! 

I don't  think the OL is as bad as you ate projecting here but it is far from fixed. That said, it is time for these coaches to earn their money. They should know what to expect from thr Pitt D. There is now 3 weeks of film to look at. They should be able to devise some plays based on tendencies at this point. I know it is asking a lot of them to actually game plan specifically  for a team instead of just going the normal route of randomness  thos O seems to play with but this needs to be done. 

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4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Oh please... Tom Brady won lots of games even with injuries to his OL.  Mahomes as well.  Every good QB in the NFL makes it through OL problems.  The excuses here are pathetic.  If we didn't draft Hall and Wilson, people here would be starting threads about excusing Zach because he has no 'weaponz' as well, but since the draft, they can't do so...  but they'll always have the OL to blame for Zach's crappy play, right?   It's this forum's ultimate excuse for our terrible QBs.  

Good QBs manage to produce even when their OLs have issues.  Bad QBs don't.  We'll see what Zach is. No excuses.

Didn’t say Brady didn’t win some games, said they don’t perform as well.  Pulling out wins when struggling isn’t saying you can’t win.  Just the chances are lowered.  Are you seriously claiming QBs don’t struggle more under duress?  
Is it making excuses? 
Sorry, it’s football 101, get to the QB increases your chances of winning 

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2 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

It will be tough but we aren't the only team who has these problems.  I expect Zach to get sacked.  I won't be mad at Zach if he gets sacked because of a blown assignment from the LT.  However, it's the other plays which will evaluate whether we have a franchise QB or not.  Let's see him strive when he does have a clean pocket.  When he is under pressure what decisions will he make?  Just because the OL has injuries and is bad doesn't mean Zach can't perform up to the standards we expect given the situation.  

I expect they will call pass plays that will have the ball coming out fast. They are not going to want him to do too much thinking. Could be a huge game for the slot receivers. Could see a record set for batted balls at the line. 

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2 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

If we're in a position to take Stroud ..... we take Stroud.... don't be dumb fellow Jets fans.

Let em duel it out.... if a QB is to soft for competition they shouldn't  be the QB

Too early for that IMO.

Talking draft in September is just not fun.  They'll be plenty of time for this later, with less need for speculation.

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This organization has setup the FAN BASE TO FAIL...every year it's the same old BS and most of us fall for this quagmire.  If you want to blame the owner, by all means do it.  Different GM's and HC's over the years, some with success, but not the big game trophy.  Others fall flat on their face.  For years I said to myself, why not us?  It just mystifies me how year after year we fall into this trap of having a competitive football team and we look like crap.  I read somewhere that the Jets have won 3 home games in September starting from 2018?  I may be off on a game there, but WTF?  Here I am stuck in dolphin land and again I ask myself, WHY NOT US?

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Just now, y2k8 said:

I expect they will call pass plays that will have the ball coming out fast. They are not going to want him to do too much thinking. Could be a huge game for the slot receivers. Could see a record set for batted balls at the line. 

Agreed.  Pittsburgh will also adjust to this seeing as they have a competent coaching staff.  Hopefully Lafleur calls a good game and puts him in the best position to succeed.  

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16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Too early for that IMO.

Talking draft in September is just not fun.  They'll be plenty of time for this later, with less need for speculation.

I'm  just being a realist War... 

Even if its not a highly drafted QB the kid needs some real competition for everyone's sake....

These powder puff QB competitions we've had since the Sanchez years yield no fruit.

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40 minutes ago, Lith said:

This.  Even if we are down to a 4th string LT, or a banged up Fant trying to survive.  How about a game plan that features the running game, short drops and getting the ball out quickly.  Other teams have done it to us.  We actually have WRs who can get open and a couple of tightends and RBs who can catch.  Feature those guys.  Build a game plan to the situation and let Zach try to execute it.  No excuses.

Agreed 

You’re not going to have ideal circumstances every week in the NFL.

The interior of the OL is still intact and Mitchell has been a pleasant surprise so far at RT.

If Zach is going to be rendered totally helpless just because we’re in a tough spot at LT right now, then he’s not the guy, period.

He has the weapons, now it’s time to do something with them.

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1 hour ago, ganggreen305 said:

I am pulling for Zach big time.  I like the kid.  He has real talent, but every time he is in there, something is going on with the Jets.  Do you guys really think he will prosper behind this makeshift piece of crap offensive line?  Really?  Then he comes back this week and gets killed and looks bad and what have we accomplished.  I am a huge fan of Joe D, but he has botched this O line big time.  Are we going to really find out what we have in Zach this year?  Not until we have a legit O Line and the kid isn't running for his life.  So frustrating man.  Get if fixed Joe D! 

Eh...

He needs to step up and play now.

Sure, the OL could be better right now - but sh*t happens, good QB's don't go into shells.  He proved last year he can play with a makeshift OL.  He did't have the weapons at the end of last year to put up big numbers...but the OL right now is still better than the last quarter of the season last year.

OL wasn't the problem. - the weapons where - and he has them now.

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1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

Anyone who thinks this will not  be a challenge with the LT situation is clueless.  Zach still has to perform better 

This is the correct answer.

Let's not pretend it doesn't matter - it does..

But Zach sill needs to play well and overcome it.  

It will hinder him, no doubt - but it won't be bad enough to give him a pass.

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Brady won the SB in his 1st year as a starter.

I think he was throwing to Kevin Faulk, David Patten, Troy Brown, and Jermaine Wiggins 

The excuses really need to stop 

Bakthiari has missed the last 2 seasons in GB.  Aaron Rodgers finds a way to make it work.

He’s lost Davante and his #1 WR is now a 4th round rookie from Nevada.  The packers are winning games.

If ZW is legit, he’s legit 

If he’s not, no degree of “ideal” circumstance is going to make a difference 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

It’s not excuses but it is a fact,  QBs being hit and harassed don’t perform as well as with protection.  Brady struggled  in games he was harassed and Mahomes did in the SB when his protection broke down.  
Its why we scream for our DL to sack and harass a QB.  
it’s not an excuse, you can still play or win even

Oh like Flacco had to play with in weeks 1 and 3. But Zach is more mobile so from what I hear  bad OL is no problem for him. 

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50 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Didn’t say Brady didn’t win some games, said they don’t perform as well.  Pulling out wins when struggling isn’t saying you can’t win.  Just the chances are lowered.  Are you seriously claiming QBs don’t struggle more under duress?  
Is it making excuses? 
Sorry, it’s football 101, get to the QB increases your chances of winning 

He may struggle at times, and that is okay.  But when he is protected, will he make the right reads, will the ball get out quickly and accurately.  When the pocket breaks down, will he be able to extend some plays to escape pressure.  Will he be able to step up in the pocket and deliver passes despite pressure (something Flacco has not been able to do these last few weeks.  We just saw Joe Burrow escape several times when the pocket around him was collapsing and make plays out of the pocket to convert third downs.  Can Zach do the same -- maybe not as consistently as a guy like Burrow, but often enough to be competent?

A good NFL QB can still make plays despite pressure.  And can still execute a game plan despite pressure.  I am not asking him to be perfect. I just would like to see our offensive coaching staff build a game plan for the situation and have him execute it competently.  He does not need to look like Brady or Mahomes.  But if he looks like Luke Falk against Philly that would be unacceptable.

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