League Worst Defensive DVOA After 3 Weeks (update: now 6th best)

[Augustiniak]

At least saleh knows which down to fix.

 

[Spoot-Face]

46 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yes, drafting a shut down corner and okaying him in zone. It’s like paying a high end call girl to walk your dog. 

My dog is a DAWG and has needs, too.

Don't judge. 

[Barry McCockinner]

If we get lit up by the Mitch Trubisky led Steelers Saleh needs to take over play calling immediately. I don't know if that will solve the problem but  something needs to change. Saleh is supposed to be a defensive guru and cannot continue to allow his defenses to be dog sh*t.

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, faba said:

For a coach hired as a defensive minded coach this defense has been pathetic. We get teams to third down but it does not matter we let them convert anyway and how many personal foul penalties to give a team first down are we going to commit

This is also my take.

I never could have contemplated that Saleh would lead such a horrific defense.

As a reminder, the "expansion team" that Saleh says he inherited....was ranked 7th (in yards allowed) and 16th (in points allowed) the year before JD arrived in NY.

Since then:  26/24 (points/yards), 32/32 and now 26/15 so far in 2022.

[Barry McCockinner]

14 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

I mean, feel free to take that one measure as gospel

[Spoot-Face]

17 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don’t know if this fixes anything, but Ulbrich needs to be fired, or at least demoted. Read this and tell me it doesn’t make you want to claw your own eyes out: 

[Biggs]

This team needs to stop drafting dogs and start drafting Monkey's.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This is after drafting a shut down corner at #4 and adding another high end corner in free agency.

This just screams incompetence to me.

edit: linking for those who aren't familiar with dvoa

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense/2022/regular

 

Somehow this is all Mike LaFleur's fault.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

Who are the FootballOutsiders and why should I care?

They're what PFF wishes they could be.  FO data is actually useful.  

[slimjasi]

48 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

I mean, feel free to take that one measure as gospel

Eh, it matches what our eyes have told us - this defense is making fundamental mistakes and isn't playing well.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Joejet said:

I’ll be the dumb one, what is DVOA

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

 

THE SHORT VERSION:

DVOA is a method of evaluating teams, units, or players. It takes every single play during the NFL season and compares each one to a league-average baseline based on situation. DVOA measures not just yardage, but yardage towards a first down: Five yards on third-and-4 are worth more than five yards on first-and-10 and much more than five yards on third-and-12. Red zone plays are worth more than other plays. Performance is also adjusted for the quality of the opponent.

DVOA is a percentage, so a team with a DVOA of 10.0% is 10 percent better than the average team, and a quarterback with a DVOA of -20.0% is 20 percent worse than the average quarterback. Because DVOA measures scoring, defenses are better when they are negative.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Yes, drafting a shut down corner and okaying him in zone. It’s like paying a high end call girl to walk your dog. 

 

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

To some men that's their thing. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

Ulbrich will be the escape goat following this season. A midseason firing is even possible. Unfortunately that doesn’t fix the root cause, which is Saleh. 

I wasn't aware Michael Scott posts here.  

[SuicidalSince98]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Eh, it matches what our eyes have told us - this defense is making fundamental mistakes and isn't playing well.

Except that if you have eyes and saw the giants last night there is no way you’d think they are a better defense 

[Joejet]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

 

THE SHORT VERSION:

DVOA is a method of evaluating teams, units, or players. It takes every single play during the NFL season and compares each one to a league-average baseline based on situation. DVOA measures not just yardage, but yardage towards a first down: Five yards on third-and-4 are worth more than five yards on first-and-10 and much more than five yards on third-and-12. Red zone plays are worth more than other plays. Performance is also adjusted for the quality of the opponent.

DVOA is a percentage, so a team with a DVOA of 10.0% is 10 percent better than the average team, and a quarterback with a DVOA of -20.0% is 20 percent worse than the average quarterback. Because DVOA measures scoring, defenses are better when they are negative.

Thanks

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

But it also makes assumptions about the quality of the defenses and offenses outside of stats so it becomes a circular statistic. It is supposed to work itself out with more data but not sure it ever does. 

Tell us you don't understand how advanced metrics work without telling us you don't understand how advanced metrics work.  

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Yes, drafting a shut down corner and okaying him in zone. It’s like paying a high end call girl to walk your dog. 

Wait they can do that ? ?‍?

[Jetsfan80]

54 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don’t know if this fixes anything, but Ulbrich needs to be fired, or at least demoted. Read this and tell me it doesn’t make you want to claw your own eyes out: 

 

[kdels62]

So fire Saleh and Ulbrich, promote LaFleur to HC and bring in a vet DC.

[Creepy Lurker]

39 minutes ago, Biggs said:

This team needs to stop drafting dogs and start drafting Monkey's.

They already drafted a walrus (Becton). 

[bitonti]

when the Jets get bad the fans love to focus on the defense 

I don't know why that is exactly, maybe tradition 

sure defense wins championships but offense wins games 

winning with defense has gone the way of the dodo bird

offense and scoring points has made defense optional 

all of these "the defense sucks" thread should wonder why the D has only had a lead to protect for 22 seconds all season so far or why the Jets offense is bottom 5 in third down conversions at home 

if you play a competent level of offense in this league, 20 points per game is easy. 30 is winning football 

the Jets offense rating of 18th is including alot of meaningless garbage time offensive stats 

is the D good enough? no but somehow the offense is sadder to me 

they aren't going to hold other teams to 9 points a game so the offense's 4 field goals will get them to a W 

 

[SuicidalSince98]

6 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

So fire Saleh and Ulbrich, promote LaFleur to HC and bring in a vet DC.

Lafail put mcdermontt in an iso on a critical 4th and 6 where we could have made it a 1 score game with plenty of time 

Lafail has had Flacco throw more passes than any other qb in the nfl, at a record setting pace in fact 

Lafail did not want to feature Wilson in his game plan against the ravens 

lafail is an abject disaster 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

when the Jets get bad the fans love to focus on the defense 

I don't know why that is exactly, maybe tradition 

but winning with defense has gone the way of the dodo bird

offense and scoring points has made defense optional 

all of these "the defense sucks" thread should wonder why the D has only had a lead to protect for 22 seconds all season so far or why the Jets offense is bottom 5 in third down conversions at home 

if you play a competant level of offense in this league, 20 points per game is easy. 30 is winning football 

the Jets offense rating of 18th is including alot of meaningless garbage time offensive stats 

is the D good enough? no but somehow the offense is sadder to me 

they aren't going to hold other teams to 9 points a game so the offense's 4 field goals will get them to a W 

 

This is true too

Not exactly the defense’s fault Saleh’s offense couldn’t score a TD in 60 mins

[WowOhWow]

where are all the people that crushed me (the Thank you JD guy and Jifpano or something) and went berzerk when I had the audacity to raise the issue that our DC might suck.  I don't care how long/short someone is in the role.  If they suck move on.  Let's not throw bad money after good.  We have good players.  Salah and our DC suck.  We can win with someone else.  ANd spare me the continuity BS.  

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

when the Jets get bad the fans love to focus on the defense 

I don't know why that is exactly, maybe tradition 

but winning with defense has gone the way of the dodo bird

offense and scoring points has made defense optional 

all of these "the defense sucks" thread should wonder why the D has only had a lead to protect for 22 seconds all season so far or why the Jets offense is bottom 5 in third down conversions at home 

if you play a competant level of offense in this league, 20 points per game is easy. 30 is winning football 

the Jets offense rating of 18th is including alot of meaningless garbage time offensive stats 

is the D good enough? no but somehow the offense is sadder to me 

they aren't going to hold other teams to 9 points a game so the offense's 4 field goals will get them to a W 

 

This is fair. I think the sentiment you’re seeing is a result of having a competent offense last year and while fielding a league’s worst defense. Add in the defensive guru HC, the injuries to QB1 and LT1-3 and I think there’s some reason to expect a turnaround for the offense. The defense though shouldn’t be this bad especially since there are some really good players on that side of the ball.

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

when the Jets get bad the fans love to focus on the defense 

I don't know why that is exactly, maybe tradition 

sure defense wins championships but offense wins games 

winning with defense has gone the way of the dodo bird

offense and scoring points has made defense optional 

all of these "the defense sucks" thread should wonder why the D has only had a lead to protect for 22 seconds all season so far or why the Jets offense is bottom 5 in third down conversions at home 

if you play a competent level of offense in this league, 20 points per game is easy. 30 is winning football 

the Jets offense rating of 18th is including alot of meaningless garbage time offensive stats 

is the D good enough? no but somehow the offense is sadder to me 

they aren't going to hold other teams to 9 points a game so the offense's 4 field goals will get them to a W 

 

Joe Flacco at QB.  LT is a mess.  Statue + turnstile=The Defense sucks because they have no excuse.   

[JohnnyLV]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Tell us you don't understand how advanced metrics work without telling us you don't understand how advanced metrics work.  

Here is how DVOA is calculated:

It breaks down every single play of the NFL season to see how much success offensive players achieved in each specific situation compared to the league average in that situation, adjusted for the strength of the opponent. 

So to get values for DVOA in early weeks they have to use previous data and assumptions about each team to come up with the "strength of the opponent" Is that not correct? Cynthia Freuland once discussed her system in relation to DVOA and said it was stronger because she did not need to make many subjective decisions in her model.

If I don't understand I don't but from looking into the stat that is where I am coming from.

 

[DjHoldyHold]

I am not an expert but this seems suboptimal.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

"Yeah, sure, the Titanic is sinking, but have you seen how well polished the captain got this bannister?"

 

[Chewy and the Jets]

Guys we gotta relax and stop worrying our pretty little heads over this.  Our HC Rob Saleh has reviewed the tape and come to the conclusion that we are okay on 1st and 2nd downs but need work on 3rd downs.  My 7 year old niece could've saved him the trouble after watching 1 quarter of the last game.  After he figures out how to stop the opponent from converting on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 15, 3rd and 12 he can then turn his sights onto other areas.  Maybe mention to the team that when the opponent fumbles it would be good if we try to get the ball.  Or maybe mention to the offensive coordinator that when your QB is 37 years old, immobile, and playing behind a 4th string tackle he should not be calling 50 passes  a game.  Or maybe he can explain to his vaunted defensive line (of which he was supposed to be an expert) that when they get close to the quarterback maybe they can try to tackle him or strip the ball instead of letting him tiptoe around wherever he wants until the secondary finally gives out.  And when he finally gets around to all of that maybe he can explain to the team that when playing in front of the home crowd that pays your salary it would be nice to score a TD, that going down 24-3 is not a good recipe for success.  Honestly there is so much to puke over and other than the play of two rookies and our kicker we are boring and totally unwatchable.  3 games in and man it's just really bad.       

[Barry McCockinner]

39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

when the Jets get bad the fans love to focus on the defense 

I don't know why that is exactly, maybe tradition 

sure defense wins championships but offense wins games 

winning with defense has gone the way of the dodo bird

offense and scoring points has made defense optional 

all of these "the defense sucks" thread should wonder why the D has only had a lead to protect for 22 seconds all season so far or why the Jets offense is bottom 5 in third down conversions at home 

if you play a competent level of offense in this league, 20 points per game is easy. 30 is winning football 

the Jets offense rating of 18th is including alot of meaningless garbage time offensive stats 

is the D good enough? no but somehow the offense is sadder to me 

they aren't going to hold other teams to 9 points a game so the offense's 4 field goals will get them to a W 

 

The defense sucking isn't mutually exclusive from the offense sucking. You're a Jets fan and should know this.

When you hire a defensive head coach you expect at least a decent defensive performance. Instead we continue to be treated with the worst in the league after major investments. 

 

 

[Beerfish]

3rd down is an issue....

The reason 3rd down is an issue is that we make no meaningful plays on 1st or 2nd down.

We don't stuff runs for losses, we get no sacks. We do not force teams to take penalties against us.

Long term that is the reason for good or bad 3rd down stats.

[oatmeal]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

PFF guys were talking about the difficulty of grading Sauce Gardner because the breakdowns in communication and scheme in the Jets secondary are so absurd that it’s hard to pinpoint who to blame, and that goes back to last year, too. 

Smfh

sh*t like this makes me want to physically attack anyone screaming have patience with this complete clown car org, no funny sh*t 

[oatmeal]

49 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

where are all the people that crushed me (the Thank you JD guy and Jifpano or something) and went berzerk when I had the audacity to raise the issue that our DC might suck.  I don't care how long/short someone is in the role.  If they suck move on.  Let's not throw bad money after good.  We have good players.  Salah and our DC suck.  We can win with someone else.  ANd spare me the continuity BS.  

That was probably during the offseason when you Legit could get banned if you were critical of the moves being made.
 

God forbid a person with foresight spoil the Super Bowl for Jets fans (the offseason) 

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The defense sucking isn't mutually exclusive from the offense sucking. You're a Jets fan and should know this.

When you hire a defensive head coach you expect at least a decent defensive performance. Instead we continue to be treated with the worst in the league after major investments. 

No disrespect to football outsiders but the Jets defense is better than 32nd and their offense is worse than 18th. I don't see how this offense can be considered in the neighborhood league average