56mehl56 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Just now, Biggs said: Let's say you decide to jump out of a plane. Personal liability. Lets say you take a job in a factory that's using dangerous chemicals and don't disclose it. 10 years down the line you develop cancer and they hadn't fully reveale the risk? Now you might sign on to do it anyway. I would think that doesn't exclude the liability of the employer. That's a completely different scenario. Tua could have refused to get back on the field , he bears part of the risk/reward in this case. If they lied to him and said you're fine while witholding information then I agree with you 100%. In today's lawsuit happy culture I seriously doubt the Dolphins simply lied to Tua , there's blame to be shared here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Just now, 56mehl56 said: That's a completely different scenario. Tua could have refused to get back on the field , he bears part of the risk/reward in this case. If they lied to him and said you're fine while witholding information then I agree with you 100%. In today's lawsuit happy culture I seriously doubt the Dolphins simply lied to Tua , there's blame to be shared here. Who said lie. You think they spend hours with NFL players after head trauma going over the statistics of what their future is going to look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 No one is stating the obvious ... this will all but ensure Zach a long and healthy career... this incident could not have come at a better time.Flags will be flying if the Defense sneezes on the QB.Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dunnie said: No one is stating the obvious ... this will all but ensure Zach a long and healthy career... this incident could not have come at a better time. Flags will be flying if the Defense sneezes on the QB. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk And you think the Jets will get the calls for them ?. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, Biggs said: Who said lie. You think they spend hours with NFL players after head trauma going over the statistics of what their future is going to look like? No, but if they discussed the risks and Tua still chose to play they're equally at fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Dunnie said: In my opinion they should stop with the childish attempt to make the sport look safe. They should simply let it be what it is .. an exciting, violent, gladitorial contest that pays its players insano money for the risks involved ... especially at the QB position. Legislating the violence out of the game will brings its demise more quickly. I never want to see a player get injured .. just as I never want to see a formula 1 accident. But the toughness and violence absolutely is part.of why I watch. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk The game is probably the safest it’s ever been. The helmet technology compared to 20 years ago is night and day. The helmet to helmet hits on defenseless players have virtually been eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 it's 10 days till our game next sunday. what are the odds Tua clears and is allowed to play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 2 hours ago, FloridaJetsFan said: The NFL rule is - if a player demonstrates "gross motor instability" he is not to return to the game, and may be out for indefinite period of time. If you saw him fall (twice) after the Buffalo hit, how can anyone conclude that he did NOT suffer "gross motor instability?" I think the Dolphins should be brought up on attempted murder charges. Why did you need to add the last sentence and ruin an otherwise good post with complete stupidity? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrodcharlie Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Maybe I havent been following it closely, because f*ck the dolphins, but I dont understand how this "a bad look" for the NFL? A player got a head injury, it happens all the time. -- It is a worse look for the NFL that that player was performing better just by throwing it to Tyreek Hill, a woman beater & child abuser who they gave a $120 mill contract to. He should be in jail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 26 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said: No, but if they discussed the risks and Tua still chose to play they're equally at fault. The NFL has spent a fortune covering up the information and over a Billion dollars with settlements to players in return for non-disclosures. They are earily similiar to the tobacco companies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 32 minutes ago, Matt39 said: The game is probably the safest it’s ever been. The helmet technology compared to 20 years ago is night and day. The helmet to helmet hits on defenseless players have virtually been eliminated. Agreed ... and DWI awareness is as high as ever. My kids NEVER drink and drive. When I/we were their age we did. Doesn't mean it can't be even better. I simply hate the senseless hits to defenseless players. There are kids by the tens of thousands exiting football. NFL players saying they do not want their kids playing football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg555 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Conspiracy theories are so tempting to adopt. I just don’t think in this “current era”..an independent doctor was in cahoots with the Dolphins and put his/her career, wealth and reputation in jeopardy by covering up a concussion in order to give Tua the green light to play a few days later. A misdiagnosis? Maybe. Just not some kind of collaborative cover-up …as tempting and energizing that can be to believe. Sure.. the NFL needs to investigate this. That’s proper. I’m just not buying there was a coverup and an independent doctor was conspiring with the Dolphins. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 23 minutes ago, southparkcpa said: Agreed ... and DWI awareness is as high as ever. My kids NEVER drink and drive. When I/we were their age we did. Doesn't mean it can't be even better. I simply hate the senseless hits to defenseless players. There are kids by the tens of thousands exiting football. NFL players saying they do not want their kids playing football. I don’t know. There’s been the sport is dying talking point for a while now. With Division I and NIL becoming a thing the pipeline of talent isn’t going away any time soon. The southeast is still football at all levels all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballLove Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 An 'independent doctor' is only as independent as the name that appears under 'PAYER' on the checks he receives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJCAP2 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 How do they say he was fine all week if he wasn’t in the concussion protocol? What are the differences between the protocol and being evaluated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 There was an interesting bit on the radio today, Bart Scott and another dude were interviewing a former player on the subject. He said players will try and dumb down the baseline cognitive testing they are given. As in try and do worse than what they really are so that if they get concussed it will not look as bad on testing when comparing vs their baseline testing. Bizarre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islesmb Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Biggs said: The NFL has spent a fortune covering up the information and over a Billion dollars with settlements to players in return for non-disclosures. They are earily similiar to the tobacco companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bitonti Posted September 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 30, 2022 46 minutes ago, Beerfish said: There was an interesting bit on the radio today, Bart Scott and another dude were interviewing a former player on the subject. He said players will try and dumb down the baseline cognitive testing they are given. As in try and do worse than what they really are so that if they get concussed it will not look as bad on testing when comparing vs their baseline testing. Bizarre. I heard a similar story about Desean Jackson they couldn't tell if he was concussed or not because he was basically a moron 24/7 *** Some will remember I and my friend Riggins44 started a draft website years ago, it's now defunct, i've moved on to other writing and I'm not really sure what Riggo is up to. But when we started it, I was in my 20's and loved violence and heavy metal but going to the Senior Bowl year after year and actually meeting these players, sitting with their mothers in the stands, it changed me, and how I react to a big hit the helmets really do de-humanize the players from the fans POV. They aren't like real people they are these robot warriors with visors you can't even see their eyes. an NBA player goes down you feel his pain, an NFL guy goes down most of the time the casual fan doesn't notice. they hustle him off with the cart, into the blue tent, wherever. now i'm in my 40s and when i see a tua situation i turn the channel before the replay. I just can't sit through watching other people hurt, like a knee rolled up on, To see someone get knocked out on the field and their hands freak out in a fencing response turns my stomach Tua, to his credit, is tough AF and goes into this with his eyes open. He's maybe too tough for his own good. No one's making Tua do this. It's still hard to watch. Especially when you meet his family and realize he's not a super robot he's just a person that's kind of why I'm not on the Zach train by the way. I've seen guys bigger and stronger than Zach get used up like tubes of toothpaste. People always bring up the exceptions like Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers but unless you're like a 6'6" josh Allen or Big Ben level freak, the NFL stands for Not For Long. 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 As expected the national media only now are killing the dophins and doctors and such about Tua, they said jack shi* after the first hit. The National sports media are a joke they way they jump around on stories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Beerfish said: As expected the national media only now are killing the dophins and doctors and such about Tua, they said jack shi* after the first hit. The National sports media are a joke they way they jump around on stories. To be fair, I thought the general consensus was that there was no way he should be playing on Thursday or put back in the game last Sunday after wobbling around like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said: That's a completely different scenario. Tua could have refused to get back on the field , he bears part of the risk/reward in this case. If they lied to him and said you're fine while witholding information then I agree with you 100%. In today's lawsuit happy culture I seriously doubt the Dolphins simply lied to Tua , there's blame to be shared here. lol You think a young, driven professional football player is going to take himself out of competition when he wants to go and the doctors told him he is good to go? You've never competed at anything physical if you think that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: To be fair, I thought the general consensus was that there was no way he should be playing on Thursday or put back in the game last Sunday after wobbling around like that. A very mild consensus, the guys that shout at the top of their lungs on issues daily squeaked meekly, then all of a sudden are roaring like lions. The media was eating up the miami and league protocols far more than the plain old fan who saw that first hit and killed them for suggesting it was just a back injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Beerfish said: A very mild consensus, the guys that shout at the top of their lungs on issues daily squeaked meekly, then all of a sudden are roaring like lions. The media was eating up the miami and league protocols far more than the plain old fan who saw that first hit and killed them for suggesting it was just a back injury. Maybe it is just that I don't take any of them seriously. They squawk to get people to listen. The louder and dumber the more hits they get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, pointman said: lol You think a young, driven professional football player is going to take himself out of competition when he wants to go and the doctors told him he is good to go? You've never competed at anything physical if you think that. Most of us here probably played sports and have played injured to some degree. But the difference here is we were not making millions of $$ and it was not our careers potentially on the line. Some onus needs to fall on Tua if he felt he was in jeopardy by playing. Also football teams are corporations and are not going to 1) risk their star players who they invested big dollars in 2) take the chance of being sued by willfully lying to a player. Yes they may want or even encourage their players to get on the field , they are not going to put themselves at risk for financial loss or litigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTL Jet Fan Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Can you imagine if it was our coach that decided to put in any QB after that hit against Buffalo. He would be ran out of NY the next day. I always liked Tua, good kid but there is no way you can convince me, even if the DR said he was cleared,anyone who has seen a concussion would put him back in that game. McDaniel should be held accountable just as much as anyone else. He is the leader of the team and it falls on him also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Simply all this bad stuff appear to happen on Thursday night. may be Tua would not have had such a situation if he had more rest between games. As others have said, Thursday games should only be played by teams coming off the bye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 1 hour ago, bitonti said: I heard a similar story about Desean Jackson they couldn't tell if he was concussed or not because he was basically a moron 24/7 *** Some will remember I and my friend Riggins44 started a draft website years ago, it's now defunct, i've moved on to other writing and I'm not really sure what Riggo is up to. But when we started it, I was in my 20's and loved violence and heavy metal but going to the Senior Bowl year after year and actually meeting these players, sitting with their mothers in the stands, it changed me, and how I react to a big hit the helmets really do de-humanize the players from the fans POV. They aren't like real people they are these robot warriors with visors you can't even see their eyes. an NBA player goes down you feel his pain, an NFL guy goes down most of the time the casual fan doesn't notice. they hustle him off with the cart, into the blue tent, wherever. now i'm in my 40s and when i see a tua situation i turn the channel before the replay. I just can't sit through watching other people hurt, like a knee rolled up on, To see someone get knocked out on the field and their hands freak out in a fencing response turns my stomach Tua, to his credit, is tough AF and goes into this with his eyes open. He's maybe too tough for his own good. No one's making Tua do this. It's still hard to watch. Especially when you meet his family and realize he's not a super robot he's just a person that's kind of why I'm not on the Zach train by the way. I've seen guys bigger and stronger than Zach get used up like tubes of toothpaste. People always bring up the exceptions like Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers but unless you're like a 6'6" josh Allen or Big Ben level freak, the NFL stands for Not For Long. Not sure there's any way to make a collision sport safe. There's gonna be an impact on players' health no matter what. Again though wonder what the cumulative effect is of having all of 3 days rest between games in which Tua sustained big hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets0712 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Mc Daniel should not be responsible for letting TUA back in that game. There are protocols these players have to clear to be allowed back in the game. If Tua was cleared to go back in.. It is Mc Daniels obligation to put him back in there. His job is to COACH and put his best players on the field… It was a horrible look all the way around. Personally. I don’t believe he should have been let back into that game or played Thursday night for that matter. But a DR had to have been the one to MAKE that call. Not a coach who is trying to win the gameSent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 I've now seen about three interviews with experts in the field of head trauma and every one of them said, oh yeah that first one was a concussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 12 minutes ago, Bugg said: Not sure there's any way to make a collision sport safe. There's gonna be an imapct on players' health npo matter what. Aain though wonder what the cumulative effect is of having all of 3 days rest between games in which Tua sustained big hits. That I agree with 1000%, it's ludicrous that the NFL feels it needs to hold Thursday night games and giving teams a super short recovery period between games. You want to have a Thursday night game then that team shouldn't play the previous Sunday. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTL Jet Fan Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 55 minutes ago, Jets0712 said: Mc Daniel should not be responsible for letting TUA back in that game. There are protocols these players have to clear to be allowed back in the game. If Tua was cleared to go back in.. It is Mc Daniels obligation to put him back in there. His job is to COACH and put his best players on the field… It was a horrible look all the way around. Personally. I don’t believe he should have been let back into that game or played Thursday night for that matter. But a DR had to have been the one to MAKE that call. Not a coach who is trying to win the game Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app So if you are the Head Coach and you see a player obviously visibly shaken and stumbling your putting your guy in so you can win the game. It is absolutely the HC’s responsibility. Granted the DR’s cleared him but sometimes you have to live to fight another day. He is the leader of that team his responsibility is also player safety, and being around the NFL as much as McDaniel has you really think he thought Tua was ok. Was listening to some ex coaches and NFL executives and they all said the coach sometimes even if a player is cleared they have to protect them from themselves as the player will most likely want to get back in. If this was a Jets coach would you feel the same, Most wouldn’t. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said: Most of us here probably played sports and have played injured to some degree. But the difference here is we were not making millions of $$ and it was not our careers potentially on the line. Some onus needs to fall on Tua if he felt he was in jeopardy by playing. Also football teams are corporations and are not going to 1) risk their star players who they invested big dollars in 2) take the chance of being sued by willfully lying to a player. Yes they may want or even encourage their players to get on the field , they are not going to put themselves at risk for financial loss or litigation. I don't think most have played sports. Freshman track doesn't count. Onus falls on the medical staff not Tua, a young athlete who plays a tough sport where everyone is hurting all season long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, pointman said: I don't think most have played sports. Freshman track doesn't count. Onus falls on the medical staff not Tua, a young athlete who plays a tough sport where everyone is hurting all season long. Again for the 10th time , if he knew he was concussed and knew the risks but chose to play , he shares some of the blame. If he felt perfectly fine but the dr's and team were somehow conspiring against him or holding back test results then they are at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said: Again for the 10th time , if he knew he was concussed and knew the risks but chose to play , he shares some of the blame. If he felt perfectly fine but the dr's and team were somehow conspiring against him or holding back test results then they are at fault. You have avoided every one of my points. Well? Ill equipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets0712 Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 So if you are the Head Coach and you see a player obviously visibly shaken and stumbling your putting your guy in so you can win the game. It is absolutely the HC’s responsibility. Granted the DR’s cleared him but sometimes you have to live to fight another day. He is the leader of that team his responsibility is also player safety, and being around the NFL as much as McDaniel has you really think he thought Tua was ok. Was listening to some ex coaches and NFL executives and they all said the coach sometimes even if a player is cleared they have to protect them from themselves as the player will most likely want to get back in. If this was a Jets coach would you feel the same, Most wouldn’t. To answer your 1st question.. I don’t know how he thought he was okay. He was obviously dazed.Your 2nd question… if this was a Jets coach, I’d like to say that in the times we are living in now. I would hope that he wouldn’t let him get back in there. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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