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Here is what is different about QB Zach Wilson ~


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1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

But can he play the QB position at the NFL level to good effect ??? I say no.

He has a very good arm and he is mobile.  There are also flaws that add up to "bust"

1. Concerning but not super critical is his release point.  It is very low compared to other NFL QB's  NOT HIS HEIGTH.  His release point.

2. He is not making a pre-snap read and beginning to throw the ball in his mind to the right places before the ball gets into his hands.  This is critical. I can tell from the way he moves and looks post snap that he is trying to reason thigs out as the play develops without first having a pre-snap plan in mind.  The end result is he takes too long to see the field, make up his mind and then throw the ball.  He aims the ball more than he anticipates and times things.  Those are not the methods of a successful NFL QB.  Those are the methods of a schoolyard player or college player that is not facing a NFL level defense.  Throughout the entire season last year, I saw no change in the way he was playing.  

He is not going to work out unless he starts throwing the ball in his mind before the ball gets into his hands.  A pro QB has to be a razor.  That has much more to do with the thought/reasoning process than it does with footwork and or arm strength.

3. He needlessly endangers himself.  The "college" or "schoolyard" methods keeps him holding the ball and exposed.  

Do you like to just throw crap against the wall and hope people believe it.

1. He does not have a low release point. He does throw from different angles some of which are lower, even sidearm but that is a completely different thing and a strength not a weakness. He also has a Top 5 release in the NFL from a speed standpoint.

2. There is literally no way you know that and to be honest it is not true. ALL plays have a primary read and ALL QBs know exactly where the ball should go presnap and what it will look like. 

3. He does not needlessly endanger himself.  I am sure you are referring to the play in preseason but that was a non contact injury. He is actually quite good at avoiding injury but can be even better like all QBs.

You can hate Zach but you and all the others should at least try and be slightly factual.

 

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17 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

His stats improved for reasons other than how he plays.

Right. That is why he busted his ass in a preseason game.

 

Actually his stats didn’t improve all that much.   Other than not throwing INT’s.  His accuracy and decision making improved.  The reason his stats didn’t important is because he was playing with 4th string WR’s. 
 

There was nothing wrong with what he did in the pre-season.  This is the NFL.  There was open space inside and he took an extra 5 yards and a first down.   He didn’t drop a shoulder to get these yards  it was a non contact injury.  If he shouldn’t make non contact cuts then he shouldn’t be playing.   You guys can blame Zach all you want for that. I can’t stop you.  But reality is - there’s nothing wrong with taking an extra five yards if no one’s there to stop you from taking it.  

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5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Do you like to just throw crap against the wall and hope people believe it.

1. He does not have a low release point. He does throw from different angles some of which are lower, even sidearm but that is a completely different thing and a strength not a weakness. He also has a Top 5 release in the NFL from a speed standpoint.

2. There is literally no way you know that and to be honest it is not true. ALL plays have a primary read and ALL QBs know exactly where the ball should go presnap and what it will look like. 

3. He does not needlessly endanger himself.  I am sure you are referring to the play in preseason but that was a non contact injury. He is actually quite good at avoiding injury but can be even better like all QBs.

You can hate Zach but you and all the others should at least try and be slightly factual.

 

Exactly!  I should just delete my response and duplicate yours.  

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55 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Do you like to just throw crap against the wall and hope people believe it.

 

That's the response I would expect from someone that is not able to interpret what they are watching, 

We'll both have plenty of opportunity to continue this discussion as the season progresses.

We'll see which one of us is the primate that likes to fling his/her own excrement. 

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49 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

That's the response I would expect from someone that is not able to interpret what they are watching, 

We'll both have plenty of opportunity to continue this discussion as the season progresses.

We'll see which one of us is the primate that likes to fling his/her own excrement. 

Wilson may fail. But he won't fail for the things you have listed because they are untrue. If you want to say he might fail due to injury concerns, short throw accuracy, getting to second reads faster, exploiting man coverage, not handling pressure in the pocket well, those would all be arguments you can make based on last years tape. I was simply referring to the ones you made which are completely off base,

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I love Zach’s potential, but  I just don’t know about a couple of things that are related.  First of all, I have concern over his ability to see the field.  Some of that is coaching, some of that is gaining experience.  However, just as in real life, some people are simply slow or poor readers, while others can read and absorb what they are reading very quickly..

The related ability about which I have concern is having poise in the pocket.  I always felt that Joe Montana and then Brady were the best because they remained calm under fire.  Again, this can improve with experience, but we can’t be sure yet where Zach will be on this spectrum, as his sample size is so small at this point.

Having expressed my concerns, it gets very old when people cling to their preconceived notions even when new evidence refutes those notions.  For example, Zach did have trouble with “dirting” the ball on short passes prior to last year’s injury.  There was not a single instance of that when he returned after the injury.  Yet, there have been numerous posts making statements along the lines of “Zach constantly dirts the ball” long after it ceased to be true.

Finally, I realize that message boards exist so that people can express their frustrations.  However, can we have just a little perspective?   Look up Peyton Manning’s first year.   I am too lazy to do so at the moment, but I believe that he had something like 16 touchdown passes and 26 interceptions.  Maybe we can even hold off on the boom or bust proclamations after Sunday’s game.  It will be Zach’s first time facing live bullets in 9 months. Plus, he will have a turnstile “protecting” his blind side.  What do I know, though?  I’m just an excuse maker.

Here’s where I won’t make excuses.  It’s up to the coaching staff to make adjustments to the situation on the offensive line  Am I confident that they will do so?  No I am not.  There is too much emphasis on fitting everything into their precious schemes.  But that’s a different long post.

  

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I hate to see the "word" HEIGTH.  If it is just a typo, fine.  If not FML.  Every time I hear some stupid mother****er say heigth on television I am prepared to strangle them.  It's not a ******* word.  It's ******* HEIGHT.   There is no TH at the end.

Edited to ask:  Is it some kind of regional thing?  If so, that region blows.

Edited by #27TheDominator
I just ******* said why
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9 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Wilson may fail. But he won't fail for the things you have listed because they are untrue. If you want to say he might fail due to injury concerns, short throw accuracy, getting to second reads faster, exploiting man coverage, not handling pressure in the pocket well, those would all be arguments you can make based on last years tape. I was simply referring to the ones you made which are completely off base,

Hedging your bet ??  I stand by what I wrote.  If you don't see it from your chair, its not a concern. 

 

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14 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

LOL Mac Jones is on the practice field with a shattered ankle

Wilson took his sweet time healing up that bone bruise 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/30/mac-jones-on-the-field-for-patriots-practice-on-friday/amp/

That is really what you want to point to?  A guy bawling over his ankle sprain on television?  I know how painful high ankle sprains can be.  Don't ask me how I know.  Still, I never heard of a high ankle sprain being referred to as having your ankle shattered.  Also, here are a couple of headlines for you:

QB Mac Jones makes tepid appearance at practice, but questions for Sunday loom large

Mac Jones, Patriots at odds over ankle injury?

Report: Mac Jones seeking second opinion on sprained ankle from Brooklyn Nets’ team doctor

I mean, nothing says warrior like tears, a tepid practice and disputing the team doctor's opinion!

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10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is really what you want to point to?  A guy bawling over his ankle sprain on television?  I know how painful high ankle sprains can be.  Don't ask me how I know.  Still, I never heard of a high ankle sprain being referred to as having your ankle shattered.  Also, here are a couple of headlines for you:

QB Mac Jones makes tepid appearance at practice, but questions for Sunday loom large

Mac Jones, Patriots at odds over ankle injury?

Report: Mac Jones seeking second opinion on sprained ankle from Brooklyn Nets’ team doctor

I mean, nothing says warrior like tears, a tepid practice and disputing the team doctor's opinion!

High ankle is a 4 to 8+ week injury 

He’s already back on the practice field 

Wilson’s was supposedly a 2-4 week injury 

He’s coming back after 7 weeks 

Pain is a physiological response.  You are stupid.  Has nothing to do with toughness or heart.  

Jones immediately hopped off the field on his own.

If you suffered the same injury, you’d have stayed on the ground like a 5-year old.  

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3 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

High ankle is a 4 to 8+ week injury 

He’s already back on the practice field 

Wilson’s was supposedly a 2-4 week injury 

He’s coming back after 7 weeks 

Pain is a physiological response.  You are stupid.  Has nothing to do with toughness or heart.  

Jones immediately hopped off the field on his own.

If you suffered the same injury, you’d have stayed on the ground like a 5-year old.  

Mac Jones was sobbing like a woman while the coaching staff carried him to the locker room

Ravens_Patriots_Football_63251-63314c74a

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Let's look at all of these:

Pre-snap reads can be learned.  This is surely something that can be learned in the classroom and will just need playing time.  This will surely come.  This doesn't require some special intelligence people are talking about around here.  Just learning your offense, their defense and then having ample time to analyze the defense.  This can and will get better every week.

I have to be honest here - when you say things like the bolded it becomes hard to take your analysis seriously.  I want to....but it becomes difficult.  There was clear and obvious improvements - in precisely the area's your referencing.  His poise, decision making and accuracy were far superior to what they were earlier in the season.

As mentioned above, he played much smarter, didn't take chances with himself or the football, he really began playing within the offense as opposed to trying to be the offense.  It was an obvious change.  A recognition of the mistakes he was making and compensated to fix them.  

That's what I think most are missing - it's not just random improvements - he improved in the area where he struggled the most.  That means - he learned from his mistakes, took coaching and work to fix those issues.  Should be a good sign to any fan.

 

Stop.

Was pretty much going to say the same thing but you beat me to it. 

There's a reason Zach went on a zero INT streak in his last 5 games last season. And it wasn't just play-calling. He improved in a number of areas which he struggled in earlier on in the season. Specifically, poise, decision making and accuracy (specifically short pass accuracy). 

I WILL say- there are still things Zach needs to improve on. IMO these are mainly...

1. Footwork in the pocket: He throws too much off his back foot. Despite having the arm strength to do so, he shouldn't throw off his back foot as often as he does. Its a bad habit that leads to inaccurate passes. Its something he should probably only do, i dunno, if he's in trouble and needs to throw the ball away. Btw, this is something he has improved on since the beginning of last season.  

2. He stares down receivers: Now. I've seen him make plays where he draws safeties away with his eyes. I don't want to make it seem like this is a massive issue for him. But he does have a tendency to lock onto his early reads. Again, this leads to INTs, near INTs and zero YAC on short completions.  

3. He sails the ball: This was a bigger issue for him earlier on in his rookie season and one of the things he got better at as the season progressed. I'm not an expert but I believe it has to do with, again, him throwing off his back foot. He tends to sail his throws high. This can be dangerous because it can leave his receivers exposed for big hits or the ball can go over their heads and turn into an INT. I don't think it has anything to do with his release or arm angle. But again, I'm no expert.   

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15 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

High ankle is a 4 to 8+ week injury 

He’s already back on the practice field 

Wilson’s was supposedly a 2-4 week injury 

He’s coming back after 7 weeks 

Pain is a physiological response.  You are stupid.  Has nothing to do with toughness or heart.  

Jones immediately hopped off the field on his own.

If you suffered the same injury, you’d have stayed on the ground like a 5-year old.  

Some truth to this, but mostly I can tell you have never played with or against me. 

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13 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Was pretty much going to say the same thing but you beat me to it. 

There's a reason Zach went on a zero INT streak in his last 5 games last season. And it wasn't just play-calling. He improved in a number of areas which he struggled in earlier on in the season. Specifically, poise, decision making and accuracy (specifically short pass accuracy). 

I WILL say- there are still things Zach needs to improve on. IMO these are mainly...

1. Footwork in the pocket: He throws too much off his back foot. Despite having the arm strength to do so, he shouldn't throw off his back foot as often as he does. Its a bad habit that leads to inaccurate passes. Its something he should probably only do, i dunno, if he's in trouble and needs to throw the ball away. Btw, this is something he has improved on since the beginning of last season.  

2. He stares down receivers: Now. I've seen him make plays where he draws safeties away with his eyes. I don't want to make it seem like this is a massive issue for him. But he does have a tendency to lock onto his early reads. Again, this leads to INTs, near INTs and zero YAC on short completions.  

3. He sails the ball: This was a bigger issue for him earlier on in his rookie season and one of the things he got better at as the season progressed. I'm not an expert but I believe it has to do with, again, him throwing off his back foot. He tends to sail his throws high. This can be dangerous because it can leave his receivers exposed for big hits or the ball can go over their heads and turn into an INT. I don't think it has anything to do with his release or arm angle. But again, I'm no expert.   

I agree with all of this.

 

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4 hours ago, THE BARON said:

But can he play the QB position at the NFL level to good effect ??? I say no.

He has a very good arm and he is mobile.  There are also flaws that add up to "bust"

1. Concerning but not super critical is his release point.  It is very low compared to other NFL QB's  NOT HIS HEIGTH.  His release point.

2. He is not making a pre-snap read and beginning to throw the ball in his mind to the right places before the ball gets into his hands.  This is critical. I can tell from the way he moves and looks post snap that he is trying to reason thigs out as the play develops without first having a pre-snap plan in mind.  The end result is he takes too long to see the field, make up his mind and then throw the ball.  He aims the ball more than he anticipates and times things.  Those are not the methods of a successful NFL QB.  Those are the methods of a schoolyard player or college player that is not facing a NFL level defense.  Throughout the entire season last year, I saw no change in the way he was playing.  

He is not going to work out unless he starts throwing the ball in his mind before the ball gets into his hands.  A pro QB has to be a razor.  That has much more to do with the thought/reasoning process than it does with footwork and or arm strength.

3. He needlessly endangers himself.  The "college" or "schoolyard" methods keeps him holding the ball and exposed.  

 

you were able to see this in the 10 plays he made in pre-season?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

He is not making a pre-snap read and beginning to throw the ball in his mind to the right places before the ball gets into his hands.  This is critical. I can tell from the way he moves and looks post snap that he is trying to reason thigs out as the play develops without first having a pre-snap plan in mind.  The end result is he takes too long to see the field, make up his mind and then throw the ball.  He aims the ball more than he anticipates and times things. 

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Holy crap do you guys actually read some of these tldnr posts. 

Stop wasting time. Accept this.

Wilson is made of tissue paper and stinks. Darnold is a better player and Sanchez looks like Johnny Unitas in comparison.

No way he stays on the field this season.

This pick is killing me but I can see the reality of this.

Shoot the messenger. Be that person who refuses to acknowledge the truth. Lay them thumbs down on me. 

 

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1 hour ago, PepPep said:

 

3. He sails the ball: This was a bigger issue for him earlier on in his rookie season and one of the things he got better at as the season progressed. I'm not an expert but I believe it has to do with, again, him throwing off his back foot. He tends to sail his throws high. This can be dangerous because it can leave his receivers exposed for big hits or the ball can go over their heads and turn into an INT. I don't think it has anything to do with his release or arm angle. But again, I'm no expert.   

Thats why he sucks and will likely never be good

When the good NFL QBs miss, they miss low. An incomplete pass is better than an interception. I'm not sure how he fixes this

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24 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Thats why he sucks and will likely never be good

When the good NFL QBs miss, they miss low. An incomplete pass is better than an interception. I'm not sure how he fixes this

That's the reason you think he will likely never be good?  If that is how you feel, then isn't him bouncing balls at the 5'7" Michael Carter's feet a sign of impending stardom?  

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17 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

I've said this a few times before but this kid has a good head on his shoulders. Yes he looks like Marcy Darcy and he looks 12 years old.

We've all heard the term "coach speak" Sam Darnold did a lot of that. This guy actually thinks on his feet and has personality. Yes he has great physical tools he can rocket the ball, he can make off schedule plays, he can run around but there's more to it than that.

I've also mentioned that I used to train young men in my line of work and some guys can just pick things up and put them down LOL. However you can clearly see other guys that have management potential. He definitely has that.

Yes the best ability is availability we've all heard that. However some guys only show up to load trucks or whatever line of work you're in. My old Boss used to call me into his office before he went on vacation and he would call me a few times during the week to ask me how things were going? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Zach seems to have a maturity and intelligence beyond his years. I'm rooting for him and I really hope it pans out.

Did you ever notice that in every interview he's in the moment and answering questions and cracking jokes and it's not just the same old rhetoric? I like that about this kid~

the Marcy Darcy line has me rolling. might be the funniest thing you ever said. LMFAO

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5 hours ago, maury77 said:

Search my post history, I’m not making the same argument for the 1 millionth time.

Yeah that’s a hard pass - I wasn’t looking for 1 million and 1 either lol.   
 

We will see something relevant to discuss again in a couple of days.   I think you know my views too and I’m willing to wait for more data.  

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12 hours ago, GreenFish said:

We will find out soon enough. Lines have been drawn. Names are written down. We all have gifs at the ready. Come Sunday, one side will be on this site bragging while the others either hides or waves the white flag.

 

 

No one ever waves the white flag on Jet Nation, it's a 24 hour 7/11 last-sausage-standing fest of loyalty to a rotating cast of once-golden-calves now suckling on low-grade milk replacer powder (analogy for  farm boys). Darnold, Wilson...Stround?

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7 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Mac Jones was sobbing like a woman while the coaching staff carried him to the locker room

Ravens_Patriots_Football_63251-63314c74a

Not gonna say Jones is going to be an All Pro. But The Job is showing up. Jones, Herbert and Winston are showing up with way worse injuries than Wilson.

Tua, very different story.

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21 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

probably similar to Tom Brady trying to load one

If our QB ended his career with rings on two different hands, appearing in nine Super Bowls while consuming copious amounts of soy products, I would be so very happy.

You also said "load." Heh heh heh heh.  

Huh huh huh, I said "load" saying that you said "load."

Load. 

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