Did Zach Wilson Make Progress Yesterday?

[tfine]

6 minutes ago, tommyduhamelshouse said:

I just read the quotes, people were really loving his attitude and swagger.  You need that in a QB.  You need a, "everyone else can go F themselves, we got this!" attitude.  I will take that all day.  Sam Darnold, for example, was too laid back.

I agree. Sam didnt have that killer instinct and neither did Sanchez. 

[FootballLove]

I voted 'yes' but I'm in the same camp as most on here. Fool me twice kind of thing. Last season we saw Zack have great games/throws, like the bomb to Corey Davis in the Titans game or the Bucs game. Left me thinking he's made the turn, only to be let down by a clunker the following week.

Take this Pitt game....what if he had a great 1st Qtr leading 2 TD drives, going up by 14. Then his 2/3/4 qtrs throwing for 45%, no TDs, and 2 picks? Would we be having this discussion?

I need to see what we all need to see....good QB play for 4 quarters. Not terrible play for 3 followed up by a brilliant 4th qtr winning TD drive. I mean I'll take these wins any time we can get one, but as far as Zack's development into our FQB? Give me 3 or 4 qtrs of good play, and more the next week. But baby steps I guess.....it was his first game this season and he finished strong, so I voted 'yes' he's on his way.

[slimjasi]

Yes

he doesn’t dominate the 4th quarter of this game last year 

those were two big boy drives and definitely something to build on. Huge for his confidence. 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, tfine said:

What about his mechanics are a mess?

Throwing off his back foot way too often, primarily.

Just be happy I gave the kid a compliment, lol.  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Fantasy Island said:

TBD.  

But it needed to be TBD when you decided he sucked?  Etc?

[ZachEY]

Progress is something that is measured over time, not by one data point.

This game was mostly awful with a good finish.  If he comes out next week and plays like he did for 75% of the game yesterday, it's not progress.  If he comes out and plays like he did in the final 25%, then yes, it is.

If this game moved the needle for you on Wilson one way or another, then it's worth considering that your opinion was likely always based on emotion and not any meaningful analysis of what you were watching.

[92ShaunEllis92]

Yes. Zach finally showed something in the 4th quarter. He didn’t play well the entire game (rust? Possibly) and the Steelers are not that great, but Wilson didn’t make any stupid plays that killed the Jets’ momentum when it mattered and smart QB play was needed the most. That was a noticeable improvement over last year.

I still have some doubts - durability, pocket awareness, forcing balls- but the last 2 drives where he needed to score and did was INCREDIBLY encouraging and starts to give hope on the lad 

 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yes

he doesn’t dominate the 4th quarter of this game last year 

those were two big boy drives and definitely something to build on. Huge for his confidence. 

I just want 4 quarters of this against the fins next week. Is that too much to ask?

[Sarge4Tide]

Current results are 63 Yes and 5 No

That corresponds to the historical JetNation ratio of 1 troll for every 12.6 good posters

[Larz]

 

Considering the loss of preseason reps for a 2nd year player, having brain farts set him back in the game, then delivering in the clutch absolutely 

 

Then a teammate commenting on his big balls is the topper. 
 

look out if this team believes they can win if they keep Zach in the game

[Fantasy Island]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

But it need to be TBD when you decided he sucked?  Etc?

It was better than I thought, but nowhere near where it should be.  I couldn't answer yes or no.  I'm just enjoying the win.

[56mehl56]

10 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

I voted 'yes' but I'm in the same camp as most on here. Fool me twice kind of thing. Last season we saw Zack have great games/throws, like the bomb to Corey Davis in the Titans game or the Bucs game. Left me thinking he's made the turn, only to be let down by a clunker the following week.

Take this Pitt game....what if he had a great 1st Qtr leading 2 TD drives, going up by 14. Then his 2/3/4 qtrs throwing for 45%, no TDs, and 2 picks? Would we be having this discussion?

I need to see what we all need to see....good QB play for 4 quarters. Not terrible play for 3 followed up by a brilliant 4th qtr winning TD drive. I mean I'll take these wins any time we can get one, but as far as Zack's development into our FQB? Give me 3 or 4 qtrs of good play, and more the next week. But baby steps I guess.....it was his first game this season and he finished strong, so I voted 'yes' he's on his way.

Not many NFL QB's do that consistently even the so called superstars. 

[kdels62]

This question can't be answered right now. It's a weird question to ask especially since we needed a last minute drive to beat a team without it's best pass rusher and with an absolute mess at QB. 

Zach did show:

Excellent mobility/ escapability 

Good intermediate accuracy

Moxy 

That's all well and good but it isn't and shouldn't be enough to change any evaluation on the kid. 

[JiFields]

I saw a lot of the same tendencies from a fundamentals standpoint carry over from last year, which might be just who he is which I think is why he's erratic at times but he showed in game progress and I think that speaks to a few things from a mental toughness perspective and ability to overcome adversity, which are crucial characteristics of a successful QB.  Not sure one game is enough to say he's progressed but you would have to think this would give him a little confidence booster which hopefully helps him settle down a bit.  I dont know what happened in the 4th quarter but he did look different.  Less bailing, less sloppy footwork, less indecisiveness, he was just standing in their slaying, pushing the ball down field, trusting his reads and receivers. 

 

 

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

Current results are 63 Yes and 5 No

That corresponds to the historical JetNation ratio of 1 troll for every 12.6 good posters

Sorry you think I'm a troll Sarge.

[JoJoTownsell1]

Give me a QB with moxy that finds a way to pull out a huge win, on the road in Pittsburgh and I'll look the other way on some sloppy plays.

I think if Wilson didn't throw that awful int in preseason before getting hurt the narrative around here would be very different 

[The Crusher]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I will say this:  Sam Darnold never demonstrated mental toughness.  Wilson has.  

His mechanics are still mostly a mess and I don’t believe he processes quickly enough to ever succeed in the league.  But there’s truth to the whole “he’s got that dog in him” stuff.  

That's where I'm at as well. Kids got the toughness, the heart, confidence and the raw talent to succeed. But everything else is such a mess it's hard to imagine he will ever be consistent enough to succeed at a top 5 top QB level. His downfall will be his lack of consistency, but yesterday he showed that Dawg for sure!

[Darnold's Forehead]

I would say no.

Dirting screen passes, lasering short passes, throwing a boneheaded int (2 if not for Fitzpatrick drop), running 15 yards back like a chicken with his head cut off…. These are all serious problems that he continues to do.  He looked no different from last year, just with actual receivers this game.

He made a good number of big time throws…. But we already knew he could do that.  Why was he drafted #2 if he couldn’t already do that?

He had a lights out 4th quarter comeback.  QBs do this all the time, not just franchise ones, so I don’t really see this being a testament to his future.  That being said, I don’t believe we win this game with Flacco, but that’s nothing surprising.

[Copernicus]

I am not sure what fans who did not like what they saw from Zach Wilson expected?  7 weeks away from football and has two INTs (one tipped by Conklin, one being aggressive where the defender made a good play) ? Leads the team to 3 TDs including the game winner in multiple 3d and 4th down pressure situations? 18-36 (50%) while throwing at least 5 into the stands avoiding drive crushing sacks? 5-5 on the last drive for a WIN on the road in Pittsburgh of all places when needed the most? All this after his first game action in 7 weeks? Yeah, thought he did better than expected

[tfine]

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Throwing off his back foot way too often, primarily.

Just be happy I gave the kid a compliment, lol.  

LOL I wasnt trying to say that you are wrong. I was just curious. 

[WhartonJet]

48 minutes ago, August said:

That 4th quarter was the best I’ve ever seen him look. This is something to build on for sure. 

LaFleur needs to feature up tempo offense against the Dolphins.  Zach has looked consistently better in these types of situations.  Time to draw up something to work towards his strengths and not wait until we are down 10+ points to break this out

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I am not sure what fans expected who did not like what they saw from Zach Wilson. 7 weeks away from football and has two INTs (one tipped by Conklin, one being aggressive where the defender made a good play) ? Leads the team to 3 TDs including the game winner in multiple 3d and 4th down pressure situations? 18-36 (50%) while throwing at least 5 into the stands avoiding drive crushing sacks? 5-5 on the last drive for a WIN on the road in Pittsburgh of all places when needed the most? All this after his first game action in 7 weeks? Yeah, thought he did better than expected

I'm not going to deep dive here, I'm just going to point out that I absolutely love how if a Jets QB has an abysmal completion percentage, we talk about throw-aways, as if they're the only QB in the league to do that and have their completion percentage effected by it.

[FootballLove]

27 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Not many NFL QB's do that consistently even the so called superstars. 

I understand. What I meant by saying we need good QB play for 4 qtrs is that Zacks 1st 3 were blow avg, while his 4th qtr was way above. I'd like to see FOUR qtrs of good QB play. Not four qtrs of OMG look at how great ZW is.....just decent, consistent play. Maybe if we get that we won't need ZW (or FLacco for that matter) to go on a brilliant tear at the end of the game to get the W.

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I'm not going to deep dive here, I'm just going to point out that I absolutely love how if a Jets QB has an abysmal completion percentage, we talk about throw-aways, as if they're the only QB in the league to do that and have their completion percentage effected by it.

7.0 Yards per attempt yesterday on 50% completions.  Now while the 50% completion percentage is trash in today's NFL, 7.0 yards per attempt is very respectable.  It would have put him in the top 20 last year.  Last year not 1 NFL QB had 7 yards per attempt without over a 60% completion percentage.  All but 3 were over 65%.   

This is a stat that I always associated with Joe Namath.  Joe while having a very low completion percentage was able to move the team further down the field on the same amount of attempts because he was chucking the ball down the field.   Zach's low percentage of completions is partially a result of him chucking the ball down field.  

I actually hope he gets near and over 60 but continues to be a gunslinger that chucks the ball down the field.   That's what built the AFL and what Jets football was all about.  Run the ball, play D and have a QB who can throw the ball down field.  It's our heritage and it's lots of fun to be a fan of. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just read that Zach Wilson now has more receiving TDs in his NY career than Kenny Golladay.  lol.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

41 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I just want 4 quarters of this against the fins next week. Is that too much to ask?

I’ll take 2 quarters of it.  

[Jetsfan80]

25 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

I would say no.

Dirting screen passes, lasering short passes, throwing a boneheaded int (2 if not for Fitzpatrick drop), running 15 yards back like a chicken with his head cut off…. These are all serious problems that he continues to do.  He looked no different from last year, just with actual receivers this game.

He made a good number of big time throws…. But we already knew he could do that.  Why was he drafted #2 if he couldn’t already do that?

He had a lights out 4th quarter comeback.  QBs do this all the time, not just franchise ones, so I don’t really see this being a testament to his future.  That being said, I don’t believe we win this game with Flacco, but that’s nothing surprising.

Troll!

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, tommyduhamelshouse said:

This has been the ongoing and most important debate:

Is Zach Wilson the QB of the Future?

Some Say Yes, Some Say No.

I've spent time on both sides of the argument.

Did Zach Wilson, in your mind, take steps toward solidifying his place as our Franchise QB of the Future with yesterday's performance?

Yes or No?

The real question is did @T0mShane make progress yesterday. Yes or No?

[DoubleDown]

The answer is clearly yes.

I'm really not sure how any objective fan can complain about a quarterback leading (and he did lead it) a 10 point fourth quarter comeback on the road.

Does Zach Wilson have some areas to clean up and continue progressing in his game?  Absolutely.

Does he look like he could be a long term answer for the franchise if he continues to grow and improve his game?  Absolutely.

He needs to polish some things up and learn to take what the defense gives him at times.  But his playmaking ability and athleticism are undeniable.  Joe Flacco would have taken about 5 more sacks than Zach did yesterday and likely lost the game.  Zach played much better than his stats indicated.  He was constantly under duress and his receivers let him down a few times in key moments.  Keep improving and work on being consistent.

Week 4 was huge in his development and is hopefully a big confidence builder in terms of being able to put the team on his shoulders moving forward.

I've said it plenty of times.  Zach needs to be the real deal or this team is in trouble.  Yesterday put him on a trend toward being the real deal.

[Maynard13]

50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Throwing off his back foot way too often, primarily.

Just be happy I gave the kid a compliment, lol.  

Good point. When I see Zach running backwards, with his back to the defense, throwing a strike for a first down, like Mahomes, THEN I'd say he's a legit FQB.

[Maynard13]

22 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I'm not going to deep dive here, I'm just going to point out that I absolutely love how if a Jets QB has an abysmal completion percentage, we talk about throw-aways, as if they're the only QB in the league to do that and have their completion percentage effected by it.

Last year he would have had 5 INT's on those throw aways.  Baby steps.

[UnknownJetFan]

2 hours ago, prime21 said:

Jury is still out but yesterday helped him.  

If he plays smart then he can keep progressing well.  Those final two drives should also boost his confidence in himself and team mates.

 

Ironically you could tell Zack felt they would score those 2 drives and win. He came out and said lets score on the final drive and honestly when  you are down by 3 most teams look to mainly play for the FG to extend the game and not risk getting the TD that carries more risk. So, he seemed to me he has that confidence already. His adjustments still can include velocity/touch on certain passes especially those that are wide open, and accuracy on those that are short to midrange so the receivers have an easier time catching.

[Jets723]

41 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I am not sure what fans expected who did not like what they saw from Zach Wilson. 7 weeks away from football and has two INTs (one tipped by Conklin, one being aggressive where the defender made a good play) ? Leads the team to 3 TDs including the game winner in multiple 3d and 4th down pressure situations? 18-36 (50%) while throwing at least 5 into the stands avoiding drive crushing sacks? 5-5 on the last drive for a WIN on the road in Pittsburgh of all places when needed the most? All this after his first game action in 7 weeks? Yeah, thought he did better than expected

This

[Hex]

Throughout most of the game Zach did by no means look great. He showed signs of it, yes. He was also great during that last drive. I still think Zach has a very, very long way to go. In my eyes he still sucks.

But alas, the question wasn't whether or not he sucks and I have very high standards for a non-sucking QB. The question was whether or not I saw progress yesterday, and I saw a whole lot of it. Instead of the hero Zach who threw INTs or the Zach who took too many sacks because he didn't want to throw it away I saw a growing leader who (In the 4th quarter only, but that's more than before) elevated the players around him.

As a quarterback Zach made a couple good throws, but what stood out to me is how he orchestrated that final drive. So yea, he has a long way to go, but he's moving forward.

[Maynard13]

59 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Progress is something that is measured over time, not by one data point.

This game was mostly awful with a good finish.  If he comes out next week and plays like he did for 75% of the game yesterday, it's not progress.  If he comes out and plays like he did in the final 25%, then yes, it is.

If this game moved the needle for you on Wilson one way or another, then it's worth considering that your opinion was likely always based on emotion and not any meaningful analysis of what you were watching.

Your expectations are way to high. Zach didn't play the full year last year. Excuses? Cough cough. But you have to take a rounded perspective here. New dumb azz HC, new OC, he was injured, pathetic OL, no running game, lousy defense causing them to play from behind every game. I mean come on! In the 2nd half last year, he matured and made progress.  Its all about progress. The kid is a work in progress. You have to look at the little things he's improved.  Yesterday was his best game as a pro.  It's a huge step in the right direction. I for one, don't care if they win or lose right now. This team is way way to young to expect them to win many games for various reasons.  The real tell tale sign is progress on all levels, run game, WR's, QB, defense, being in every game, competing. You compete, you will win your share of games. Look at the Lions in the 2nd half last year. They totally turned around their mindset. And this year they are competing.  We really didn't in those first 3 games. Yesterday we did.