Did Zach Wilson Make Progress Yesterday?

[UnknownJetFan]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

This question remains TBD.

I don't meaningfully think so, no.

I think Zach expressed both his strengths and his weaknesses again yesterday, in equal measure.

His arm strength and ability on mid-range missile-passes was very good.  His scrambling and escape ability was also very impressive.  And his throwing it away was mostly good.

His shorter-range accuracy and touch was abysmal.  He threw several passes that should have been easy INT's (and one actual INT).  His consistency and decision making and vision remain suspect, missing several open receivers at times.

The 4th quarter was very good.  The first three quarters, not so much. Is that "taking a step"?  Many will say yes, because the 4th was good and we won.  I say not really, because Zach was the same Zach as last year yesterday, both his obvious pros and his his equally obvious cons.  Had Zach taken a step, we beat that horrible Steelers team by 14+ yesterday IMO.

And I add, I think the fanbase is ignoring the pivotal role played by our running backs and running game in that 4th quarter, equally important to the win.

Won't be a popular take, but this is how I see it.  Zach is maddeningly consistent in his inconsistency when it comes to his skillset.  To me, he'll take a step when he is more accuracy and successful in the touch-pass game, and can improve his comp. % closer to 62% than 50%.

But I do want to see more, so there is at least that. On to the Phins.

 

Actually, you somewhat answered the question in your 3rd paragraph from the bottom regarding the running game. when it was doing pretty well in the 4th qtr Zack controlled the game. Most other parts of the game the RBs would get either tackled for loss or get 1-2 yards. That makes anybody at QB be inconsistent since it is easier to cover the receivers at that point. So, is it as I am saying or is Zack just more clutch on the big throws at the end of a game that make the difference in winning/losing like yesterday. That's what we will see because with the overall inconsistency on O it is being dictated mostly by inconsistent Oline play a lot of which is due to the injuries. But, if we cannot run steadily through the games it will make it harder to see further progress out of Wilson. I suppose the good news is that with the threat of his passing with the receivers as well as his mobility, the D should not be able to stack 8-9 in the Box to completely shutdown the run. Pitt was fires up in the front 7 due to bad play up to yesterday on their parts so they did their best to make the statement there against the running game.  

[Green Ghost]

He came up big in the 4th quarter, and we won.

[Guilhermezmc]

Its clear to me that when he stand in the pocket and didn't turn his body away from the line of scrimmage good things happened.

I don't really remember him doing that last year so thats a positive.

Really need to work on the short accuracy some of those throws were terrible.

If he can beat a good Fins defense its a major step forward

[Jetsfan80]

34 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Good point. When I see Zach running backwards, with his back to the defense, throwing a strike for a first down, like Mahomes, THEN I'd say he's a legit FQB.

I think Jets fans have been conditioned to think THAT is what makes a FQB somehow, lol.  Backyard ball is fun and all, but the consistent, boring throws game after game are what make a FQB.

[tommyduhamelshouse]

30 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

He came up big in the 4th quarter, and we won.

facts.

[cat999]

I think some who voted no may have a different definition of what making progress means.  If yesterday's performance does not represent some amount of progress, then perhaps it's because the question is being interpreted as meaning Zach's 'turned the corner'.  Jury is still out and he may ultimately fail, but to not concede yesterday was a step forward is a bit odd.  I wish more who voted no would explain their rationale

 

[tommyduhamelshouse]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Yes

he doesn’t dominate the 4th quarter of this game last year 

those were two big boy drives and definitely something to build on. Huge for his confidence. 

agreed there.

[Jet2020]

Besides the last 2 drives, he was very erratic. But he was also under constant pressure so hard to say it’s all his fault. The one overthrown int was bad. The tipped int wasn’t his fault. His receivers dropped several easy passes as well. I’d grade it as incomplete. However, he does have some erratic plays even when not pressured and that concerns me. Inconsistency. 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

I would say no.

Dirting screen passes, lasering short passes, throwing a boneheaded int (2 if not for Fitzpatrick drop), running 15 yards back like a chicken with his head cut off…. These are all serious problems that he continues to do.  He looked no different from last year, just with actual receivers this game.

He made a good number of big time throws…. But we already knew he could do that.  Why was he drafted #2 if he couldn’t already do that?

He had a lights out 4th quarter comeback.  QBs do this all the time, not just franchise ones, so I don’t really see this being a testament to his future.  That being said, I don’t believe we win this game with Flacco, but that’s nothing surprising.

Well said. Need to see more and yes better than Flacco could give us now. 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

I'm not going to deep dive here, I'm just going to point out that I absolutely love how if a Jets QB has an abysmal completion percentage, we talk about throw-aways, as if they're the only QB in the league to do that and have their completion percentage effected by it.

Curious where you would rank the Jets current Oline compared to other teams in the league . 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Maynard13 said:

The real question is did @T0mShane make progress yesterday. Yes or No?

Yes , if the Zach needle continues to move upward , Tom will progress to full blown depression.. 

[HawkeyeJet]

There is one thing I am certain of with Wilson going forward.   He’s never going to be extremely “clean” in the accuracy department and will always have an occasional “wtf” turnover.  He’s going to be very much a Brett Favre type player in terms of ups and downs.  Hopefully similarly to Favre eventually he gets to a place where the ups largely outweigh the downs.  Wilson is always going to have some ugly to his game, but I’m perfectly fine with that as long as he keeps progressing and it’s more 80/20 than 50/50.

[56mehl56]

51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think Jets fans have been conditioned to think THAT is what makes a FQB somehow, lol.  Backyard ball is fun and all, but the consistent, boring throws game after game are what make a FQB.

Nope, checkdown charile's don't flourish in the NFL. What you wanted to say is he needs to know when its prudent to make a boring throw . NFL FQB's need to have the complete toolset , being able to burn you deep , with intermediate crossers and checking down based on what the D is giving you is crucial to success. Show me a QB who only makes boring checkdown throws and I'll show you a losing QB and a struggling offense.

[PS17]

I want to see Zach from the Tampa game last year. I think that is the game he put it all together. He was decisive, accurate, and elevated a group whose best skill player was Braxton Berrios. 

Against Miami I’d love to see him nail some easy 3-5 step drop throws. Get some quick slants to Wilson and Moore to build up some rhythm and counteract the poor offensive line. (And stop running up the middle every first down)

[rex-n-effect]

For what he had to work with he showed progress. The bad OL performance did not help but if you compare a similarly bad OL at this time last year, Wilson looked considerably better. 

 

[Maynard13]

52 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think Jets fans have been conditioned to think THAT is what makes a FQB somehow, lol.  Backyard ball is fun and all, but the consistent, boring throws game after game are what make a FQB.

Doesn’t exist anymore. Hurst, Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, Allen etc etc etc all improvise and make plays on the run. It’s a different world. 

[Copernicus]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

I'm not going to deep dive here, I'm just going to point out that I absolutely love how if a Jets QB has an abysmal completion percentage, we talk about throw-aways, as if they're the only QB in the league to do that and have their completion percentage effected by it.

I think the percentage category, like most/all stats in football are so secondary to evaluating a player in real time. Did the QB read the defense wrong,  throw into triple coverage or did the Wr tip a catchable ball in the air for an INT?. QB miss a wide open Wr or was it a blatant drop? Emmit Smith arguably a top 5 RB all time or did his OLINE open up holes you and I could run through? Stats in other sports tell more of the story than in football.  Evaluating the entire picture of the state of the Jets, its safe to say that the Jets current OLINE situation is probably the worst in the NFL. Dont know too many teams that are on their 5th LT/ 4th (?) RT.  IMHO, Zach totally outplayed/saved his team from defeat yesterday by consistantly avoiding clear cut sacks with his mobility and athleticism throwing the ball against his momentum out of bounds. On the other hand, if Zach was throwing bounce passes like last year the argument for his percentage would be more valid. Zach was precise in crunch time when it was needed the most, on the road in Pittsburgh of all places. These factors dont show up in the stats.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Maynard13 said:

Doesn’t exist anymore. Hurst, Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, Allen etc etc etc all improvise and make plays on the run. It’s a different world. 

Yes but they only do this some of the time.  They're still all capable of making the consistent, boring throws game after game.  Hurts in particular has improved his passing abilities this year.  He's not running nearly as much.

[section314]

5 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

There is one thing I am certain of with Wilson going forward.   He’s never going to be extremely “clean” in the accuracy department and will always have an occasional “wtf” turnover.  He’s going to be very much a Brett Favre type player in terms of ups and downs.  Hopefully similarly to Favre eventually he gets to a place where the ups largely outweigh the downs.  Wilson is always going to have some ugly to his game, but I’m perfectly fine with that as long as he keeps progressing and it’s more 80/20 than 50/50.

They finally have a really nice set of weapons at their disposal so LaFluer can design the offense to Zach’s strengths. The number of guys who had 20+ yard receptions yesterday was great. Made you  dream a bit what this group can do together. It is kind of exciting.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Maynard13 said:

Your expectations are way to high. Zach didn't play the full year last year. Excuses? Cough cough. But you have to take a rounded perspective here. New dumb azz HC, new OC, he was injured, pathetic OL, no running game, lousy defense causing them to play from behind every game. I mean come on! In the 2nd half last year, he matured and made progress.  Its all about progress. The kid is a work in progress. You have to look at the little things he's improved.  Yesterday was his best game as a pro.  It's a huge step in the right direction. I for one, don't care if they win or lose right now. This team is way way to young to expect them to win many games for various reasons.  The real tell tale sign is progress on all levels, run game, WR's, QB, defense, being in every game, competing. You compete, you will win your share of games. Look at the Lions in the 2nd half last year. They totally turned around their mindset. And this year they are competing.  We really didn't in those first 3 games. Yesterday we did.  

I was told literally everything you just said about Sam Darnold and Mark Sanchez as well.

[ZachEY]

32 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Curious where you would rank the Jets current Oline compared to other teams in the league . 

Bad.  But that doesn't mean you can't evaluate Wilson, as some want you to believe.

[JiFields]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

This question can't be answered right now. It's a weird question to ask especially since we needed a last minute drive to beat a team without it's best pass rusher and with an absolute mess at QB. 

Zach did show:

Excellent mobility/ escapability 

Good intermediate accuracy

Moxy 

That's all well and good but it isn't and shouldn't be enough to change any evaluation on the kid. 

They did need a last minute drive but they also had the lead for the first time the entire year. 

I dont know if I'd describe it as "excellent".  I hate hate hate when he spins and turns his back to the LOS and he did it like 4-5 times yesterday.  He still tends to fade and bail rather than climb.  Good is a better word.  lol 

 

 

[David Harris]

I can see either take at this early stage but for me, ABSOLUTELY YES.

You couldn't have hoped for a better 4th quarter from a young QB.  He was clutch.

I agree with the take that his biggest hurdle is mental which will get better and better with more experience and seeing things over and over.  It's crucial he stay in the same offensive system.  

The dirt throws are my biggest concern, it's like his arm has one setting for down the field throws and that's it.  Even his quick hitch to Garrett Wilson was almost in the dirt, the short pass to Breece in the right flat should've been an easy TD or long gain - it's weird, the easiest throws are the hardest for him.  He can't seem to put touch on the balls and his geometry goes haywire on the short stuff.  He's terrible off his backfoot, happened a lot last year and saw it again yesterday at times. 

But overall I'm thrilled today.  Terrible O line play, he was pressured on 22 of his 34 dropbacks, hadn't played in 2 months, 22 years old - he has everything you look for outside of stature.

[Maynard13]

19 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I was told literally everything you just said about Sam Darnold and Mark Sanchez as well.

yea it must have been me LOL

[SickJetFan]

Yes because Lisa called him on his cell before the 4Q and told him if he didnt get his sh*t straight and bring her a win she was going to take away his summer vacation trip to Malibu

[Maynard13]

33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes but they only do this some of the time.  They're still all capable of making the consistent, boring throws game after game.  Hurts in particular has improved his passing abilities this year.  He's not running nearly as much.

I dont get it. You want to see Zach making making those 'boring' throws but he made several BORING throws that were classic drop back. The one I really was wowed by was the deep down and out to Moore. That was an outstanding throw.  I get it. Hes had alot of trouble with this aspect but he really improved yesterday. Give the kid a MILF for his efforts.

[Maynard13]

24 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Bad.  But that doesn't mean you can't evaluate Wilson, as some want you to believe.

Bad? is that all you got? Halloween is near. How about ghastly, horrendous, hideous, grim, grisly, frightful, harrowing. Drop back, run for your life on nearly every passing down, running backwards to save your life. I'd be running backwards straight out the end zone and into the parking lot.

[kdels62]

33 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

They did need a last minute drive but they also had the lead for the first time the entire year. 

I dont know if I'd describe it as "excellent".  I hate hate hate when he spins and turns his back to the LOS and he did it like 4-5 times yesterday.  He still tends to fade and bail rather than climb.  Good is a better word.  lol 

 

 

I think his mobility is great how he uses it is infuriating. There was a point where I swear his whole plan was to do the spin as soon as his 5 step drop was complete. 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

I think the percentage category, like most/all stats in football are so secondary to evaluating a player in real time. Did the QB read the defense wrong,  throw into triple coverage or did the Wr tip a catchable ball in the air for an INT?. QB miss a wide open Wr or was it a blatant drop? Emmit Smith arguably a top 5 RB all time or did his OLINE open up holes you and I could run through? Stats in other sports tell more of the story than in football.  Evaluating the entire picture of the state of the Jets, its safe to say that the Jets current OLINE situation is probably the worst in the NFL. Dont know too many teams that are on their 5th LT/ 4th (?) RT.  IMHO, Zach totally outplayed/saved his team from defeat yesterday by consistantly avoiding clear cut sacks with his mobility and athleticism throwing the ball against his momentum out of bounds. On the other hand, if Zach was throwing bounce passes like last year the argument for his percentage would be more valid. Zach was precise in crunch time when it was needed the most, on the road in Pittsburgh of all places. These factors dont show up in the stats.

There are certainly more important things, and no one is saying completion percentage alone is the problem with Wilson.  But, broadly speaking, they do tell as story.  And, 50% is bad.

FWIW, Zach himself, in the 4th Q, proved that in the 1st 3 quarters, he was a part of the problem with the pressure.  He actually navigated the pocket well in the end.  There were times earlier on where he missed opportunities to step up and deliver the ball, rather than running away from the pocket.

The numbers aren't perfect, but they do back up that this was a poorly played game with an impressive ending.

[ryu79]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

This question remains TBD.

I don't meaningfully think so, no.

I think Zach expressed both his strengths and his weaknesses again yesterday, in equal measure.

His arm strength and ability on mid-range missile-passes was very good.  His scrambling and escape ability was also very impressive.  And his throwing it away was mostly good.

His shorter-range accuracy and touch was abysmal.  He threw several passes that should have been easy INT's (and one actual INT).  His consistency and decision making and vision remain suspect, missing several open receivers at times.

The 4th quarter was very good.  The first three quarters, not so much. Is that "taking a step"?  Many will say yes, because the 4th was good and we won.  I say not really, because Zach was the same Zach as last year yesterday, both his obvious pros and his his equally obvious cons.  Had Zach taken a step, we beat that horrible Steelers team by 14+ yesterday IMO.

And I add, I think the fanbase is ignoring the pivotal role played by our running backs and running game in that 4th quarter, equally important to the win.

Won't be a popular take, but this is how I see it.  Zach is maddeningly consistent in his inconsistency when it comes to his skillset.  To me, he'll take a step when he is more accuracy and successful in the touch-pass game, and can improve his comp. % closer to 62% than 50%.

But I do want to see more, so there is at least that. On to the Phins.

 

I mean sequentially, he was better in the 4th quarter than the first right? The question is if he can carry that across games now and we won't know till next week. 

The one thing I don't get is the comment about the RBs. We had nice complementary football in that 4th quarter (both in terms of balance within the offense and the defense contributing key turnovers) - I don't see why that should detract from the step up we saw from Zach on the last two drives? I agree there was a massive step up in the run game at the end of the game, but isn't that exactly what we've been wanting (sufficient talent on the team that you'd not be reliant on a single player to carry the day)? 

What was different to me yesterday vs. say the win vs. Tenessee last year was that Zach generated the two drives within the offense rather relying on playground stuff. He had a solid balance of underneath and mid distance stuff and it looked like he saw the field well. I liked the way we used read option to simplify stuff for him a bit too and hope Lafleur leverages that more in the game plan vs. the Fins. 

[ultraJETfan]

Lots of great takes. My take is it was progress for his confidence. As far as his ability he showed the same thing we already knew. He is wildly inconsistent. And I don't think that is a problem as long as Lafleur is savvy enough to realize this and start calling more plays that cater to his strengths and call less of the plays that expose his weaknesses. It's not rocket science. It is really that simple. Who cares if he can't throw short. Mike White can't throw over 10 yards. You adjust the calls. He can fix his short game with the proper training over time. 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

Bad.  But that doesn't mean you can't evaluate Wilson, as some want you to believe.

But it does put more perspective on "throwaways" and completion % which some people want to get hung up on. 

[Green Ghost]

The question wasn’t “did he show you he’s the guy” it was did he “ make progress yesterday”.

I’m usually the last guy to stick up for Zach Wilson here, and I like to make or laugh at a good zinger at Zach’s expense as much as anyone, but if you voted no in this poll You’re just being unreasonable.

[Greg555]

Zack had an uneven performance yesterday. However, “weights” are applied at different points in the game and the kid came through big time when it mattered the most.

He needs to apply “touch” on some of his short throws for sure and make good decisions consistently.  However, you could see the arm talent once again that you can’t teach, so I’m still very optimistic about his future as our QB.  
With our banged up offensive line, he’s not going to be able to sit in a rocking chair on passing plays, a la vintage Tom Brady, but that’s where his mobility and off schedule playmaking ability will continue to be a plus.

Next week is huge for Zach and the team. SOJ lay an egg v the Fins. We’ve seen it go that way a million times after a good win.  We’re all hopeful next week will be a “sign” that a new era of Jets football appears to be finally upon us.

[Greg555]

52 minutes ago, ultraJETfan said:

Lots of great takes. My take is it was progress for his confidence. As far as his ability he showed the same thing we already knew. He is wildly inconsistent. And I don't think that is a problem as long as Lafleur is savvy enough to realize this and start calling more plays that cater to his strengths and call less of the plays that expose his weaknesses. It's not rocket science. It is really that simple. Who cares if he can't throw short. Mike White can't throw over 10 yards. You adjust the calls. He can fix his short game with the proper training over time. 

Yes..applying touch on short throws is very fixable.  The arm talent can’t be taught and he has it.  No one can deny that.  Also, I know it’s an intangible term that’s meaningless to some, but he seems to have a good dose of it - > “moxie.”  It can turn into carelessness, so his ability to be “coached up” is vital to his development.