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Steve Young and Alex Smith drooling over Zach Wilson on Monday Night Countdown


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40 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Do the Jets have the coaches to coach him up in the first 3 quarters?

We shall see.

To me it is the biggest question mark with this team over and above any players young or old.

This is a very inexperienced coaching staff for the responsibilities they have. They are basically growing on the job and with the exception of Lafleur, I am not sure we have seen growth.

One thing that stands out to me is how Saleh handles in game vs some others. Not comparing him because I do beleive the Jets want him to be the CEO type and not involved in real time. Last night you could see Mcvay gathering with the offense and going over plays on the tablet. We have seen Daboll do the same.

Shanahan does not and obviously that is the mold the jets are following. Not saying one or the other is the right way, but with the inexperieince the jets have - it is kind of sink or swim. 

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52 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Do the Jets have the coaches to coach him up in the first 3 quarters?

We shall see.

 

7 minutes ago, Trotter said:

To me it is the biggest question mark with this team over and above any players young or old.

This is a very inexperienced coaching staff for the responsibilities they have. They are basically growing on the job and with the exception of Lafleur, I am not sure we have seen growth.

One thing that stands out to me is how Saleh handles in game vs some others. Not comparing him because I do beleive the Jets want him to be the CEO type and not involved in real time. Last night you could see Mcvay gathering with the offense and going over plays on the tablet. We have seen Daboll do the same.

Shanahan does not and obviously that is the mold the jets are following. Not saying one or the other is the right way, but with the inexperieince the jets have - it is kind of sink or swim. 

 

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

“You can coach the first three quarters but not the fourth!”

Great quote by Young. You hear that LaFleur? You hear that Booby? You fools got work to do! 

Haha, it’s nice to know I’m not alone. 

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49 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

“You can coach the first three quarters but not the fourth!”

Great quote by Young. You hear that LaFleur? You hear that Booby? You fools got work to do! 

The 1st quarter is preparation, 2nd & 3rd is in game coaching and the 4th quarter is mostly talent. I can't believe I am writing this, but Adam Gase's team were prepared for most of their games. Problem is that he couldn't make any in game adjustments and the talent level on the Jets was much to be desired.

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1 minute ago, Claymation said:

The 1st quarter is preparation, 2nd & 3rd is in game coaching and the 4th quarter is mostly talent. I can't believe I am writing this, but Adam Gase's team was prepared for most of their games. Problem is that he couldn't make any in game adjustments and the talent level on the Jets was much to be desired.

Didn’t Gase have a streak of scoring a td on opening play drive like 4 or 5 games in a row or something? He had a good script to open up but then the wheels came off as the game progressed 

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58 minutes ago, Trotter said:

To me it is the biggest question mark with this team over and above any players young or old.

This is a very inexperienced coaching staff for the responsibilities they have. They are basically growing on the job and with the exception of Lafleur, I am not sure we have seen growth.

One thing that stands out to me is how Saleh handles in game vs some others. Not comparing him because I do beleive the Jets want him to be the CEO type and not involved in real time. Last night you could see Mcvay gathering with the offense and going over plays on the tablet. We have seen Daboll do the same.

Shanahan does not and obviously that is the mold the jets are following. Not saying one or the other is the right way, but with the inexperieince the jets have - it is kind of sink or swim. 

For everyone we have to understand something. The jets biggest problems for the 1st 3 qtrs of games is more on the players then the coaches. Not catching balls, fumbling, penalties, not taking advantage of opportunities(like the kickoff fumble right in our hands we could not recover against Pitt), etc. none of those are on coaches. Now, if we see the coaches being too conservative in the 1st 3 qtrs when we have as we see the offensive weapons and QB to be more aggressive as we saw in the 4 qtr then that I blame on coaches since they need to understand what they have at their disposal to make or cover the ground needed. And, OC play calling ties into that as well. Especially since in the league now there are no defenses for long lengths of times that are going to completely shutdown offenses. But when I see a HC make a decision to instead of go for a 55 yard FG to tie the game when your kicker has the leg to make it and instead go for it on 4th and 7 when likely if you miss that you lose game, I say that is coaching doing a good job. When I see on the final drive of the game the coaching using 3 timeouts to not only work with the O to get the TD to be ahead, but also leave no real practical amount of time for the other team's O to come back and win it, I'd say that is good coaching. At the end of games the decisions are made with no margin for error, though in the earlier parts of game you can recover from mistakes. This coaching staff has what it takes and has to just keep it going. Heck, how great of coaching was it for the HC, OC, Oline coaches to say we have to move AVT to LT while Herbig can handle RG(as we have pretty good depth inside at Oline), and oh by the way, nobody but us needs to know that so why volunteer it?. Very good surprise for that game that prevented Pitt from game planning for AVT if they felt there was anything they could work on the exploit from AVT if there is like everyone says for example, if it makes it harder say for AVT to block constant wide angled rushes due to having shorter arms. At least you can try to see if that would work, but someone like him may make up for that physical limitation with good leverage, footwork, beating you to the punch, etc. And the best coaching part of that was the team saying we just can't go into this game starting McDermott at LT which will not only risk us in the game, but risk our young QB already coming off an injury. Lets give these coaches some credit, we could do a lot worse.      

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7 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I think the way to help Zach in the first 3 quarters is mix in some hurry up offense so he does not have to think as much . I felt this way with Sanchez but stubborn Rex Ryan would never allow hurry up because he felt it affected his defense. Rex was a one dimensional head coach I'm hoping this staff is different and they let Zach play more instinctively that may be the key  

Yes.

Momentum is everything and Zach, at least at this early stage in his career, is night a day when he gets going.  I agree, go no huddle, open it up - let Zach sling it early.  

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2 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I guess you didn't watch the video, that's ok. Let me explain...no time to explain...let me sum up...Wilson led his team to 2 TD drives, Young said "I can coach the 1st 3 quarters, I can't coach the last quarter". 

Yes, to simplify even more.

Zach showed ice in veins and was able to deliver - with a skill-set that made him the #2 overall pick- to carry his team to a win..  Basically that's not something that can be coached.  You either have it or you don't.

That's what he was saying.

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1 hour ago, Trotter said:

To me it is the biggest question mark with this team over and above any players young or old.

This is a very inexperienced coaching staff for the responsibilities they have. They are basically growing on the job and with the exception of Lafleur, I am not sure we have seen growth.

One thing that stands out to me is how Saleh handles in game vs some others. Not comparing him because I do beleive the Jets want him to be the CEO type and not involved in real time. Last night you could see Mcvay gathering with the offense and going over plays on the tablet. We have seen Daboll do the same.

Shanahan does not and obviously that is the mold the jets are following. Not saying one or the other is the right way, but with the inexperieince the jets have - it is kind of sink or swim. 

McVay is more involved in the offense, is basically the OC, Saleh is more CEO.  As is Dabol.  Both types have been successful.  
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zach Wilson was better against zone than man last year and his strong fourth quarter came with the Steelers playing zone whereas both picks came against man.

I really want that fourth quarter to be a moment that things turned the corner, but I also genuinely believe we need to see him play well against the coverage pattern that he's struggled against his whole career. That said I'm sure the Dolphins will be dialing up man a lot on Sunday.

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Why does the media love this guy so much? It is weird. 

Kirk Cousins did the same damn thing he did- led a couple scoring drives down the stretch to come from behind and win. Are they ooh and awee ing about Cousins? Of course not. They'd be more likely to talk about how important the 1st 3 quarters are.

And Cousins has actually done this before- this was the very 1st time we've seen Wilson do something like that. Just weird.

 

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1 minute ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Why does the media love this guy so much? It is weird. 

Kirk Cousins did the same damn thing he did- led a couple scoring drives down the stretch to come from behind and win. Are they ooh and awee ing about Cousins? Of course not. They'd be more likely to talk about how important the 1st 3 quarters are.

And Cousins has actually done this before- this was the very 1st time we've seen Wilson do something like that. Just weird.

 

Is this serious?

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3 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Why does the media love this guy so much? It is weird. 

Kirk Cousins did the same damn thing he did- led a couple scoring drives down the stretch to come from behind and win. Are they ooh and awee ing about Cousins? Of course not. They'd be more likely to talk about how important the 1st 3 quarters are.

And Cousins has actually done this before- this was the very 1st time we've seen Wilson do something like that. Just weird.

 

Cousins is consistently a top-10 producing NFL QB, playing in his fourth start.

Wilson was the worst QB in the NFL last year, playing in his first start post-injury.

It's more notable when Wilson takes a stride, less so when Cousins does what Cousins usually does.

I wouldn't read too much more into it than that. 

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1 hour ago, J_Smith said:

I thought Saleh showed improvement yesterday. His clock management in the 4 minute drill to end the game was flawless. Didn’t burn unnecessary timeouts. Defense has definitely taken steps (largely due to talent influx), and the players genuinely seem to like him and each other.

Absolutely agree. And going for it on fourth and seven instead of the long field goal was a gutsy and correct call

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The Jets should play more up tempo on offense as their base offense.  Over the last couple of years they have simply performed much better in those situations.

I'm a proponent of "What things do other teams do to us that really annoys us?  Lets do that."   If we are playing a team that rotates personnel a lot (like the jets do) then lets go up tempo and not let them rotate.

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33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes.

Momentum is everything and Zach, at least at this early stage in his career, is night a day when he gets going.  I agree, go no huddle, open it up - let Zach sling it early.  

The Steelers saw that as well, that is why there were these "injuries" that delayed the Jet's offense in the 4th quarter, attempting to disrupt Zach's rhythm.

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43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So the coaches get the blame for the first 3 quarters while Zach gets the credit for the 4th quarter.

Never change, JN!

Honestly Zach was the worst QB I’ve ever seen in the first half of almost every game  I seen him suck in last year. When the other QBs played they played better in the first half. Steve Young wasn’t talking in absolutes, I took it as him saying in the fourth quarter your QB play will make or break you. Zach showed he can close a game out, showed he still can’t get off to a strong start. I think it lies on coaching to help him over come that. 

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27 minutes ago, derp said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zach Wilson was better against zone than man last year and his strong fourth quarter came with the Steelers playing zone whereas both picks came against man.

I really want that fourth quarter to be a moment that things turned the corner, but I also genuinely believe we need to see him play well against the coverage pattern that he's struggled against his whole career. That said I'm sure the Dolphins will be dialing up man a lot on Sunday.

Both starting QBs are Questionable.  Jones hasn't played yet this season and Howard may still be hampered even if he plays.  Beyond those two, we are going against very young DBs that nobody has ever heard of.  

The question is: will the OL give Zach enough time to hit the open WRs because if he has a few seconds, they will likely get open.

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25 minutes ago, derp said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zach Wilson was better against zone than man last year and his strong fourth quarter came with the Steelers playing zone whereas both picks came against man.

I really want that fourth quarter to be a moment that things turned the corner, but I also genuinely believe we need to see him play well against the coverage pattern that he's struggled against his whole career. That said I'm sure the Dolphins will be dialing up man a lot on Sunday.

I was thinking the same thing. I’m hoping this will come with time. Being good against zone is about trusting your arm and eyes and letting it rip. Being good against man is about trusting your receivers to go up and make a play. He hasn’t played with these guys enough to have that level of trust yet. I’m hoping it improves as this group spends more and more time on the field together.

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30 minutes ago, derp said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zach Wilson was better against zone than man last year and his strong fourth quarter came with the Steelers playing zone whereas both picks came against man.

I really want that fourth quarter to be a moment that things turned the corner, but I also genuinely believe we need to see him play well against the coverage pattern that he's struggled against his whole career. That said I'm sure the Dolphins will be dialing up man a lot on Sunday.

He was definitely better against zone than man last year, that is true. Not true that the Steelers just sat in zone in the 4th though, particularly on the first TD drive they mostly played man.

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Young is a goober who drools over anything BYU and I'm pretty sure is in the same swinger group as Zach's parents, so you cant take a thing he says seriously.  Smith had a much more subdued, realistic reaction to the performance which was, not really sure what he was doing for 3 quarters but he was money in the 4th, which is all that needs to be said, and that's fine.  Dude hasnt played ball in a while. 

That said, does everyone forget that the Jets were up 10-0 and had their first lead of the season?  It confusing to me why people seem to ignore that fact.  The game plan was fine in the beginning of the game, Zach caught the first ever TD pass for a QB in franchise history.  If he doesnt throw the pick before the half, they're potentially up 17-3 at the half or at least 13-3.  Does the narrative about the game plan/coaching change if he they score a TD before the half? 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

He was definitely better against zone than man last year, that is true. Not true that the Steelers just sat in zone in the 4th though, particularly on the first TD drive they mostly played man.

I have not seen the stats anywhere else but on a review of the game I listened to they said against man he was 7-16 for 102 yards (6.4 YPA) and 2 interceptions. He had 65 and a touchdown on that drive - most of it came on two chunk plays - and 57 on the final drive.

I didn’t mean to imply they were exclusively in zone. Wouldn't surprise me if he hit a couple of the chunks when they were in zone though. 

Certainly possible that the stats I heard are wrong too.

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7 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Young is a goober who drools over anything BYU and I'm pretty sure is in the same swinger group as Zach's parents, so you cant take a thing he says seriously.  Smith had a much more subdued, realistic reaction to the performance which was, not really sure what he was doing for 3 quarters but he was money in the 4th, which is all that needs to be said, and that's fine.  Dude hasnt played ball in a while. 

That said, does everyone forget that the Jets were up 10-0 and had their first lead of the season?  It confusing to me why people seem to ignore that fact.  The game plan was fine in the beginning of the game, Zach caught the first ever TD pass for a QB in franchise history.  If he doesnt throw the pick before the half, they're potentially up 17-3 at the half or at least 13-3.  Does the narrative about the game plan/coaching change if he they score a TD before the half? 

 

 

While I largely agree with this, they did put him in a lot of 3rd and longs early on in the game. The 4th quarter they did a much better job of mixing in the run when the Steelers thought they would pass. The Steelers were committed to stopping the run, which they did early on. The O line situation and the pressures did not help, but its easier to generate pressure in obvious passing situations

 

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8 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Young is a goober who drools over anything BYU and I'm pretty sure is in the same swinger group as Zach's parents, so you cant take a thing he says seriously.  Smith had a much more subdued, realistic reaction to the performance which was, not really sure what he was doing for 3 quarters but he was money in the 4th, which is all that needs to be said, and that's fine.  Dude hasnt played ball in a while. 

That said, does everyone forget that the Jets were up 10-0 and had their first lead of the season?  It confusing to me why people seem to ignore that fact.  The game plan was fine in the beginning of the game, Zach caught the first ever TD pass for a QB in franchise history.  If he doesnt throw the pick before the half, they're potentially up 17-3 at the half or at least 13-3.  Does the narrative about the game plan/coaching change if he they score a TD before the half? 

 

 

Careful, you are going to be told you can't judge anything but the last 2 drives...

Zach left a lot on the field. I said we need to start scouting QBs when Z look lost and was playing like trash... then , Zach balled out. Lets see how he does this week. I am hopeful he's legit. I am skeptical because too many routine and easy plays, well he misses.

 

hope Z plays like last 2 drives more than the first 3 quarters

 

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4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

While I largely agree with this, they did put him in a lot of 3rd and longs early on in the game. The 4th quarter they did a much better job of mixing in the run when the Steelers thought they would pass. The Steelers were committed to stopping the run, which they did early on. The O line situation and the pressures did not help, but its easier to generate pressure in obvious passing situations

 

Honestly, he was worse on early downs than he was in those 3rd and long situations, lol, but either way, if you go back and look at the play by play, I think they did a good job of mixing run and pass on 1st downs, and did have some decent runs on the drives for the 1st two scores.  Steelers locked it down after that, they really couldnt get anything going again until the 4th quarter.  That said, I think the commitment to run even with relative success early, helped them late because it also made the Steelers respect the RPO and play action which they used often in the 4th quarter and had a bunch of chunk plays out of, so, game of attrition.  It's still the Steelers in Pittsburgh, yah know? 

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23 minutes ago, derp said:

I have not seen the stats anywhere else but on a review of the game I listened to they said against man he was 7-16 for 102 yards (6.4 YPA) and 2 interceptions. He had 65 and a touchdown on that drive - most of it came on two chunk plays - and 57 on the final drive.

I didn’t mean to imply they were exclusively in zone. Wouldn't surprise me if he hit a couple of the chunks when they were in zone though. 

Certainly possible that the stats I heard are wrong too.

Those stats could be accurate, not sure. But just off the top of my head the big play to Garrett Wilson and the 4th down conversion to Corey Davis were both against man coverage. I believe the TD to Corey Davis was as well, but I’d have to go back and double check that one.

The other big 4th quarter chunks, the 1st down pass to Davis to start the final drive and his last pass of the game to Davis which put them in the red zone, were both against zone.

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