We're a top 10 defense

[Jetsfan80]

Remember when the 2019 Jets went 7-9 largely against a bunch of backup QBs and many here thought that team was good?

Around this time a week ago people wanted Ulbrich fired and were saying this is the worst/one of the worst defenses in the league.  The bipolar nature of some of you is absolutely insane.

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

no one is on here calling those teams top 10 defenses.

Green Bay isnt considered a top 10 D?  

 

 

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Remember when the 2019 Jets went 7-9 largely against a bunch of backup QBs and many here thought that team was good?

Around this time a week ago people wanted Ulbrich fired and were saying this is the worst/one of the worst defenses in the league.  The bipolar nature of some of you is absolutely insane.

I don't think I'm being bi-polar.  I'm just enjoying the facts of the metric rankings in this moment.

We're far from a Super Bowl contender in this moment, but being 2-2, and ranked where we are, is better than I expected, and better than we could be, by a long shot.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

I get it, believe me. Like I said, I’ll take it. It’s a mixed bag and the QBs you mention are the ones the team lost to, lol. But I’ll take all the good fortune the football gods would like to bestow upon this generally godforsaken franchise. Bring on Bridgewater! 
 
I was encouraged by the secondary play this week. They completely overhauled that group, and they’ve all been on the field a lot so far this year. It feels like they really might be solving the communication issues they’ve been having. They need to tweak that DL rotation, too -getting the best players in the best position- but I have some confidence that that will come. Saleh seemed to recognize that Huff might need more than seven snaps a game this week. That’s a start. 

I said it in a different thread, it obviously helped they faced Trubisky/Prickett but you also didnt see WR's wide open like you have the past few weeks.  For the most part, the Steelers were making a lot of contested catches which leads me to believe they cleaned up some communication, at least for one week.  Going to be super duper important this week because while it's Bridgewater, he's more than capable of finding those weapons and I have to imagine playing a ton of cover 3.

[slats]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ranked 18th in point allowed/8th in yards allowed.

Ranked 25th in points scored/10th in yards gained.

I would definitely prefer the opposite, but it is what it is. I don’t know what Cincinnati’s rankings are, but they let the Jets slow walk a TD towards the end of the game because it was just as useful to them as running out the clock themselves. That hurts their defensive stats, TOP number, but helped in the w/l department. 
 
It was nice to see the takeaways, though. That’s a big one, even against those QBs. Offensively, it was nice to score TDs after Flacco’s FG-only performance the week before. Work in progress. 

[freestater]

20 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Ulbrich is a stud!  Now that he has the players, its starting to come together.  Ulbrich is one of the brightest, young defensive minds in the game.  We are lucky to have him.

[Barry McCockinner]

9 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Green Bay isnt considered a top 10 D?  

 

 

Are they? I haven't seen too much of them this season. They're 17th in dvoa.

SF
BUF
PHI
TB
DAL
JAX
CIN
DEN
NO
PIT

 

[slats]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The bipolar nature of some of you is absolutely insane.

Yeah, like going from the corpse of Joe Flacco to never wanting to remove Flacco from the starting lineup ever again to… 

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

3.7 ypc vs. the run is good for the 6th in the NFL too.  Cant put my finger on it but it must have been that charmin camp Saleh ran this offseason. 

 

Haha, Saleh is okay in my book, but definitely deserved a little backlash for the recent reactions he’s had to media and fan trolling. Gotta stay out if that muck. 

Otherwise, he’s looked like a first-time coach finding his way - ups and downs- at the same time all the new talent here finds it’s rhythm.

It'll he ugly at times, and at times it’ll be amazing, so long as we stay relevant - then I can remain cautiously optimistic.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, like going from the corpse of Joe Flacco to never wanting to remove Flacco from the starting lineup ever again to… 

Hmm, which of these takes is more reasonable:  Thinking a QB who throws for 300+ and 4 TDs in a miracle comeback is a decent short-term option, or that a defense which has a nice day against Mitchell Trubisky and Kenny Pickett (but had significant trouble stopping Jacoby Brissett) is secretly a top 10 unit?

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Hmm, which of these takes is more reasonable:  Thinking a QB who throws for 300+ and 4 TDs in a miracle comeback is a decent short-term option, or that a defense which has a nice day against Mitchell Trubisky and Kenny Pickett (but had significant trouble stopping Jacoby Brissett) is secretly a top 10 unit?

Just pointing out your pot/kettle MO. By all means, carry on. No one’s stopped you, though you wouldn’t know it to read your whines. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Just pointing out your pot/kettle MO. By all means, carry on. No one’s stopped you, though you wouldn’t know it to read your whines. 

Thanks for the permission.  

[RevisIsland610]

43 minutes ago, docdhc said:

I thought 20 points. 7 points on a 4 yard drive and 6 points on a 59 and 51 yd field goals. Only 1 legit td drive given up. That’s pretty good. 

Actually the defense only gave up 13 points as Pitt scored a TD on an INT. 

[jamesr]

6 INTs on the year so far ... against 7 all of last year.

[the Claw]

I think it makes sense. It’s top 10, not top 10%. That’s just in the top third of the league. I think they’ve done well enough to sneak into the top third in week 4 at 2/2 considering who they’ve played. I doubt they’ll stay there, but it’s nice to see.

[hotrodcharlie]

Just now, RevisIsland610 said:

Actually the defense only gave up 13 points as Pitt scored a TD on an INT. 

Not exactly, he stepped out at the 2 or 3 and the defense then let Pittsburgh score so its on them but I understand your point.

They made some strides this week but its hard to tell if the defense is better or Pittsburgh's offense is just trash. It was Trubisky & a rookie after all. I want to see them do this against a decent QB

[UnknownJetFan]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The Jets looked good for the first half then the Ravens adjusted and did whatever they wanted.

I don't believe the Jets are a top 10 defense right now. I hope they become one. I would be lying if I said I wasn't having nightmares of Teddy Bridgewater looking like Dan Marino Sunday. I mean, they played by far their best game of the year on Sunday and gave up 24 to an offense led by Trubisky and first NFL game Pickett.

Actually Pitt only scored 20, and the D effectively only gave up 13 as Minka virtually got a pick six that wound up on the 4 and to blame the D on that score cannot be done. But, as they say you really are only as good as your weakest link and on this D that has been the safeties. If they play better like against Pitt this D will have a good enough secondary and front 7 to hold point totals low hopefully. Perhaps 20-24 points per game on average to hold teams and see if our O can surpass that on average. That seems like what the model of this team would be. I know we are in this high scoring era, but shootouts require you score on every drive virtually and mostly TDs. Only the top few offenses in this league can do that and it is not the best way to play anyhow.

[jamesr]

Just now, hotrodcharlie said:

Not exactly, he stepped out at the 2 or 3 and the defense then let Pittsburgh score so its on them but I understand your point.

They made some strides this week but its hard to tell if the defense is better or Pittsburgh's offense is just trash. It was Trubisky & a rookie after all. I want to see them do this against a decent QB

Probably both ... Pitt were bottom of the league in 3 and outs coming into the game.

[jamesr]

1 minute ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Actually Pitt only scored 20, and the D effectively only gave up 13 as Minka virtually got a pick six that wound up on the 4 and to blame the D on that score cannot be done. But, as they say you really are only as good as your weakest link and on this D that has been the safeties. If they play better like against Pitt this D will have a good enough secondary and front 7 to hold point totals hopefully.

Is there a stat that somehow weights a TD vs. the yards required to score it? So a TD where the drive started on your own 5 yard line is treated differently than one that came on a 95 yard drive? not sure if the DVOA already factors that in?

Could do the same with offense ... factor in the yardage required to get the score, as well as the actual points. E.g. getting a TO at the opponent's 5 yard line and kicking a FG is not a "plus" for the offense.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

They don’t make top ten defenses like they used too…. 

[RevisIsland610]

I still think our coaching sucks but this defense has a hell of a lot more talent than it did last year. We are a far cry from last year's dumpster fire defense and not really top 10 either. I think in reality we are middle of the pack, but young and can get better. 

[RevisIsland610]

9 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Not exactly, he stepped out at the 2 or 3 and the defense then let Pittsburgh score so its on them but I understand your point.

They made some strides this week but its hard to tell if the defense is better or Pittsburgh's offense is just trash. It was Trubisky & a rookie after all. I want to see them do this against a decent QB

Well most defenses give up points 1st and goal from the 2 or 3. They actually played pretty well against The Ravens especially against the run. Again, I see them as a middle of the pack defense which is fine considering last year's disaster. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Hey- we can all choose the narrative that makes us feel better :).

The reality though is that the Jets have done an excellent job on limiting yards but a really bad job of getting off the field on third downs and allowing easy TDs.  This is a game won and lost on points so this defense is not top ten in the most important metric.

On the other hand, the offense has done a good job gaining yards, although some of those have been late (garbage time) but a bad job staying on the field on third downs and scoring TDs.  So not a very efficient offense.

Hence a poor point differential BUT the seeds are there for both to be top 10 if they can fix third down and the FG/TD dilemma on both sides of the ball.  That’s where both the offense and defense differs from years past when we stunk across the board— yards and points.

[Trotter]

7 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Hey- we can all choose the narrative that makes us feel better :).

The reality though is that the Jets have done an excellent job on limiting yards but a really bad job of getting off the field on third downs and allowing easy TDs.  This is a game won and lost on points so this defense is not top ten in the most important metric.

On the other hand, the offense has done a good job gaining yards, although some of those have been late (garbage time) but a bad job staying on the field on third downs and scoring TDs.  So not a very efficient offense.

Hence a poor point differential BUT the seeds are there for both to be top 10 if they can fix third down and the FG/TD dilemma on both sides of the ball.  That’s where both the offense and defense differs from years past when we stunk across the board— yards and points.

Very realistic and fair take

[ScarletKnight89]

The defense should be good and improve as the season goes along. They have legitimate talent in the secondary and on the defensive line. They finally have the makings of a pass rush even if it only really showed up in 1 game against the Steelers. Miami with Bridgewater will be an interesting test. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Taking the Defense an additional step, we know communication has been stated as the reason for our defensive breakdowns.  Plus there have been some killer penalties.  Things that good coaching can fix going forward.  This has not been the talent deficit we’ve seen in years past.

Jetsxfactor had a good stat that showed the Jets were one of the best teams in both third down pressure rate and third down coverage.  QBs like Jackson & Burrows made some fantastic throws to convert.  Even Pitt had some tight window throws on third down that left me shaking my head.

So the seeds have been planted to get better as the season progresses.  Exciting time to be a fan.  
 

My biggest concern is that the law of averages never work in the Jets favor, for example the 59 yard end of half FG that was the longest ever at Heinz Field.

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

You're right I messed up and took the Jets score. They played good on Sunday. It was their best performance by far. But - it was the Steelers. 

How the mighty have fallen. The Steelers were a revered franchise, now they are considered a lousy team with question marks all over their roster. 

[Stark]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The only time this defense has looked good is when we played the Steelers who started Mitch Trubiski and then put Pickett into his first NFL game.

I don't know what you're getting at with point differential but this is what dvoa is

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

DVOA deez

 

[slats]

8 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Taking the Defense an additional step, we know communication has been stated as the reason for our defensive breakdowns.  Plus there have been some killer penalties.  Things that good coaching can fix going forward.  This has not been the talent deficit we’ve seen in years past.

They really overhauled the defense this year after largely ignoring it last year. A ton of new faces and guys like Joyner and Lawson who were here last year but never (or barely) made it to the field. Rookie CB playing roughly 100% of the snaps, rookies in the DL rotation, a bunch of other new faces. When did Kwon Alexander join the team? He became an instant staple. It should’ve been obvious that they were going to have some kinks to work out. 

8 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Jetsxfactor had a good stat that showed the Jets were one of the best teams in both third down pressure rate and third down coverage.  QBs like Jackson & Burrows made some fantastic throws to convert.  Even Pitt had some tight window throws on third down that left me shaking my head.

This is what it was built to do. This is a defense designed to protect a lead. 

[SickJetFan]

The defense does seem to get better after the 1st 2 drives of each half but I am not sure if that is a mirage or not as it may be that the other team is just playing more conservative to protect their wopping leads.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Meh, Lamar and Burrow are pretty good.  I think it's probably pretty normal to face a few stinkers mixed w/ some of the elite.  Just look at the state of QB'ing in the NFL.  It's a weird year, lots of really bad QB's are starting.  Geno Smith is the most efficient QB in the NFL 

pickett was 10/13 for 70.  not bad if you ignore the 3 ints.  and trubitsky wasn't all that bad either.  i'll take the win like everyone else but this defense still has a way to go.  they were gashed pretty good by chubb and then gashed by harris.  they won mainly because wilson made some awful nice throws down the stretch and the steelers couldn't stop them.

[More Cowbell]

Playing these bottom feeder QBs is certainly  a positive for us. Maybe the Jets can hire Jeff Gillooly before the GB game to pay Rogers a visit. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Are they? I haven't seen too much of them this season. They're 17th in dvoa.

SF
BUF
PHI
TB
DAL
JAX
CIN
DEN
NO
PIT

 

7th in points against but that doesnt matter? 

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, rangerous said:

pickett was 10/13 for 70.  not bad if you ignore the 3 ints.  and trubitsky wasn't all that bad either.  i'll take the win like everyone else but this defense still has a way to go.  they were gashed pretty good by chubb and then gashed by harris.  they won mainly because wilson made some awful nice throws down the stretch and the steelers couldn't stop them.

The Jets are the only team to hold Nick Chubb under 100 yards on the season. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Haha, Saleh is okay in my book, but definitely deserved a little backlash for the recent reactions he’s had to media and fan trolling. Gotta stay out if that muck. 

Otherwise, he’s looked like a first-time coach finding his way - ups and downs- at the same time all the new talent here finds it’s rhythm.

It'll he ugly at times, and at times it’ll be amazing, so long as we stay relevant - then I can remain cautiously optimistic.

yeah he needs to learn to put a sock in it and Saleh may ultimately suck, idk but what I do know is its not because of the silly narratives people have created around him ie; charmin, cliche's, sayings, pressers, etc.  Probably will have more to do with if he can coach.