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Miami secondary banged up


Rhg1084
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Just now, johnnysd said:

I suspect in an adjusted completion percentage Zach is well over 60% in that game. 

And if you adjust the guys over 60%, their completion percentage would be 70%+ making 60% no longer good.

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

Look, I get it.

But I really do think you need to look at each game on its own and understand how the numbers got there - if we're going to asses him properly...

But you are most likely ultimately going to be correct - over the course of a long enough period of time - those number will fix themselves.  I guess the point I'm saying is - if he has a 1:2 int:td ratio and 50% completion % - they're not winning 9 games or even close.  The OL will get better, the WR's will get used to his arm (less drops) , he's going to fix the short problems...It will come together and the numbers will get better..

With that said, I hear your point and don't disagree 

I said I've very happy with his performance last game. My expectations were cellar-floor. He exceeded those. But that's the thing about exceeding expectations... they keep going up...

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2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I think it was more than just a "flash". A Flash to me is like the famous pass to Corey Davis in the Tenn game or individual throws here and there.

What Zach did Sunday was put the team on his back and execute basically flawlessly in leading a 4th quarter comeback for the win. Does not mean he will make that his baseline level but way more than just flashing.

What I think was most encouraging (I've mentioned this before so sorry if it's repetitive) were two things...

1) He did this with the tools that made him the #2 overall pick.  It wasn't, as you said - a flashy play, swing pass that went for a TD, broken coverage etc.) What we saw from him - was precisely why he was drafted #2 overall.  Big arm, quick release, accuracy and tenacity.  That what he was sold as and that's what he delivered on.  I just don't think that part of it can be overstated.

2) That 3rd quarter (and last throw in the second half) he wasn't good.  Last year he went into a hole - and got worse.  He regrouped and got better.  That's a major step.

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49 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

People don’t seem to understand, Zach is partially responsible for putting us in the position of needing a comeback. He doesn’t toss that  horrible int and we’re going into the half 17 or 13 to 3 with the ball to start the 2nd half.

As good as he was in the 4th quarter, he helped screw things up to put us down 10 in the final quarter.  That needs to change.

Not even gonna mention the high throw Conklin int either.

The throw to Conklin was perfectly fine, a little high but eminently catchable for a highly-paid TE. So you're right, don't mention it because that was on butterfingers Conklin, who has either put the ball on the ground or tipped to the air for an INT in at least 3 of 4 games.  

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33 minutes ago, slats said:

This is getting a lot of play. That wasn’t a terrible read or throw; it was great play by the defender. It would’ve meant a lot less, too, without the personal foul on the defense that followed. 

Yeah, not too worried about extrapolated stats after a single game. He led the team to 24 points and the win. His stats would’ve been a lot prettier if he hadn’t run for his life and threw it away (saving the sack) multiple times, and they would’ve been better if he threw another TD pass instead of catching one. Also think that 7.0 number is pretty impressive given the situations he found himself in. 

Yeah but him and Braxton been practice that play shirtless the entire off season. 

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4 hours ago, ZachEY said:

If you were going to write a recipe for a Classic Same Old Jets Debacle, how different would it look from:

- Home game against division rival

- Team and especially, young QB coming off a strong 4th Q comeback win.

- Division Rival's starting QB out with a concussion.

- Division Rival's secondary banged up.

Not saying the debacle is coming, but seriously, how would you script a SOJ letdown any better?

This is what tenured fans see on the horizon; which is also why I don’t understand the big uptick in bravado re: Zach/offense (for or against) this past week.

We all know the Jets haven’t been consistent on offense [from week to week] in like, a decade. 

put 3 games together and then we can start rattling swords on shields. 

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8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

1) He did this with the tools that made him the #2 overall pick.  It wasn't, as you said - a flashy play, swing pass that went for a TD, broken coverage etc.) What we saw from him - was precisely why he was drafted #2 overall.  Big arm, quick release, accuracy and tenacity.  That what he was sold as and that's what he delivered on.  I just don't think that part of it can be overstated.

Was big for me. We drafted him for ceiling but we (at least I) didn't see any real evidence of it last season. That's very frustrating when a guy who is supposed to have all this talent looks like Deshonn Kizer.

This game he did demonstrate that talent ceiling. Still could fail but I feel a lot better now that at least that upside is in there.

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2 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

If you were going to write a recipe for a Classic Same Old Jets Debacle, how different would it look from:

- Home game against division rival

- Team and especially, young QB coming off a strong 4th Q comeback win.

- Division Rival's starting QB out with a concussion.

- Division Rival's secondary banged up.

Not saying the debacle is coming, but seriously, how would you script a SOJ letdown any better?

100% happening. I’m convince the only reason they win games is to set these games up so they can lose miserably and the Universe screams,”Got ya, too easy, haha!” 

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

100% happening. I’m convince the only reason they win games is to set these games up so they can lose miserably and the Universe screams,”Got ya, too easy, haha!” 

Hahaha - 

Almost forgot a couple.

- Chance for the first winning record since 2015 (not sure if that's accurate, but feels right).

- Division Rival's QB was briefly on our roster.

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3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

100% happening. I’m convince the only reason they win games is to set these games up so they can lose miserably and the Universe screams,”Got ya, too easy, haha!” 

giphy.webp

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27 minutes ago, shevys said:

The throw to Conklin was perfectly fine, a little high but eminently catchable for a highly-paid TE. So you're right, don't mention it because that was on butterfingers Conklin, who has either put the ball on the ground or tipped to the air for an INT in at least 3 of 4 games.  

Not saying Conklin couldn't have caught it.  If that's a fine throw for your franchise QB, I want nothing to do with it.

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3 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Not saying Conklin couldn't have caught it.  If that's a fine throw for your franchise QB, I want nothing to do with it.

Lol it’s funny Zach is getting universally praised from the national media, but here on Jetsnation.com he’s getting killed 

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14 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Lol it’s funny Zach is getting universally praised from the national media, but here on Jetsnation.com he’s getting killed 

I don't think I'm killing him.  He did a lot of things well, some things that he did last year bad.  He had a near perfect 4th quarter and I've commended him several times.

The issue is that I say "His throw to Conklin was too high and had zero touch, which helped contribute to the interception" and people just cannot handle that.

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18 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

I don't think I'm killing him.  He did a lot of things well, some things that he did last year bad.  He had a near perfect 4th quarter and I've commended him several times.

The issue is that I say "His throw to Conklin was too high and had zero touch, which helped contribute to the interception" and people just cannot handle that.

The ball hit him in the hands, he’s a NFL tight end who has to make that catch

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14 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

The ball hit him in the hands, he’s a NFL tight end who has to make that catch

he had to jump pretty high.  it could have been caught but i think that is on wilson.

the interception in the first half is just a bad decision.  should never have been thrown.

the penalty is what cost us 3 points however.

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First off...I'm a Zach believer.  IMO he's the most talented QB Jets have drafted since Namath.   His arm talent and mobility were key tools he has that allowed him to overcome any rust and mistakes he made in Steelers game..  And the weapons are there for Zach to utilize for big plays and scoring more points then Jets have done in last several years.  

If the Jets can just get stability with the OL.  To string the same five out there for several games...will allow the continuity needed for zone blocking to be more effective for the run game.  Getting Breece into that 2nd level.  Cause he looks like he's ready to explode.  He's making most of his yardage without holes opening up for him.  This offense was built for ZW's skill set.  Quick drops and a short compact release of tight spirals with velocity .  Making anticipation and timing throws to a bunch of weapons.  The run game is an important part of Lafleur's offense.  An effective run game will allow play action for more explosive plays.  Leading to more point scoring opportunities.

I'm not that worried about Zack making mistakes or poor decisions.  He's an aggressive QB and I like that. I'm much  more concerned with him getting injured trying to do too much to overcome the shortcomings of his OL.   

For me...this season was only about ZW and his development.  For him being able to put points on the board like a FQB should...and Jets being competitive.   

OL stability is needed.  It's up to JD-Saleh-CS to make that happen.  I'm confident that Zach can progress enough this season to give us Jets fans optimism that he can be that FQB for the next 10-12 years.  To get Jets another Lombardi Trophy before he hangs them up. 

Overall...this is an exciting group of young players sprinkled in with some veterans.   There's gonna be enough ups to offset the downs this season.  To make it  promising for the 2023 and beyond seasons.  IMO that can only happen if Jets finally have a FQB to lead this team.   And ZW is the best candidate to be just that...in a long time. 

Jets vs Dolphins...Can't wait!      

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55 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

The ball hit him in the hands, he’s a NFL tight end who has to make that catch

Not saying he doesn’t have to.  But I have bad news for you.  Drops will continue to happen from Conklin and other players when they fully extend themselves to catch passes.  Players from every team do the same thing.  Did you see MCII’s pick?  Hit the tight end right in the hands and bounced off.  Was a bad, high throw from Pickett anyway.  QB deserves some blame.

Again.  Another example of someone utterly refusing to admit ANY fault of Zach Wilson.

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4 hours ago, shevys said:

The throw to Conklin was perfectly fine, a little high but eminently catchable for a highly-paid TE. So you're right, don't mention it because that was on butterfingers Conklin, who has either put the ball on the ground or tipped to the air for an INT in at least 3 of 4 games.  

yeah, that ball went through both his hands - this wasn't one of those - well it would have been a tough catch..  In fact, it wouldn't have even been mentioned as a good catch -  pretty standard for NFL QB's.  Could it have been a better throw - sure...but that's not an NFL "bad" throw.  

 

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5 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

People don’t seem to understand, Zach is partially responsible for putting us in the position of needing a comeback. He doesn’t toss that  horrible int and we’re going into the half 17 or 13 to 3 with the ball to start the 2nd half.

As good as he was in the 4th quarter, he helped screw things up to put us down 10 in the final quarter.  That needs to change.

Not even gonna mention the high throw Conklin int either.

Horrible INT, lol

High throw too.  Off of Conklins hands

kills some that our QB played well. 

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1 hour ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Not saying he doesn’t have to.  But I have bad news for you.  Drops will continue to happen from Conklin and other players when they fully extend themselves to catch passes.  Players from every team do the same thing.  Did you see MCII’s pick?  Hit the tight end right in the hands and bounced off.  Was a bad, high throw from Pickett anyway.  QB deserves some blame.

Again.  Another example of someone utterly refusing to admit ANY fault of Zach Wilson.

Stop man...wasn't' fully extended...jumped for no reason.  No reason at all he shouldn't catch that.  None..6:20 in that video - watch it.  That ball has to be caught.  Could have been a better throw, surely.  But that's a no brainer. He didn't have too much juice on it.  Conklin's gotta figure this out or start sitting.   Get CJ or Ruckert in there.  As good as he's been, he's probably been a net negative for this team right now.

Again, not saying Zach couldn't have thrown a better ball - but this was on Conklin.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

The ball hit him in the hands, he’s a NFL tight end who has to make that catch

the ball hit his finger tips as he jumped for it... bad pass, period. Not TEfault.

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5 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

As I get older it's becoming hilarious how much age makes it difficult to keep up with sports. My first thought when I saw the thread title was yeah but they still have Zack Thomas and Surtain and those guys are really good.

 

I'm pretty bad at keeping up with other team's rosters, but even I knew Surtain's kid is in the league now. 

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4 hours ago, ZachEY said:

If you were going to write a recipe for a Classic Same Old Jets Debacle, how different would it look from:

- Home game against division rival

- Team and especially, young QB coming off a strong 4th Q comeback win.

- Division Rival's starting QB out with a concussion.

- Division Rival's secondary banged up.

Not saying the debacle is coming, but seriously, how would you script a SOJ letdown any better?

 

Same old Jets never win in Pittsburgh. 

Zach is changing our tendencies. 

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4 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Hahaha - 

Almost forgot a couple.

- Chance for the first winning record since 2015 (not sure if that's accurate, but feels right).

This deep into the season, yes.  We were 1-0 in 2018....then promptly lost 3 straight.  

The 2015 Jets started that season 4-1.  

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One other interesting note today:

Receiver Jaylen Waddle (groin), offensive tackle Terron Armstead (toe), and cornerback Xavien Howard (groin) were among the players who didn’t practice.

If Waddle can't go, then we should be able to smother Hill with Sauce and a Safety as needed.  

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