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Week 5 vs MIA; the cynics thread


Paradis
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Just now, Warfish said:

That's fair.

And make no mistake, this Miami team is no slouch. 

The loss of Tua and some other players help, and we're more talented than some think, but as you say "we are underdogs for a reason".

What will be crushing is if they come out flat and play like poop.  That just cannot happen.

If the Jets lose by something like 6 points or less and look competitive in the process, that would be good enough for me.  

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

If the Jets lose by something like 6 points or less and look competitive in the process, that would be good enough for me.  

Well, I'm still being an optimist and hoping we win.  

But if we don't, I just want to see a game where we play hard, and compete whistle to whistle.  

A loss will be a letdown, sure, but a flat poopy performance would be.....bad.  Very bad. 

Especially by Zach, who really needs to build on his successes each week.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah but I seem to recall you were ready to give up midway through this past Sunday, even with Wilson under center lol.

Either way optimism makes sense but I don't see a problem with demanding more.  Just because we're starved for wins doesn't mean we should be cool with counting on borderline miracles to get the W's.  Beat the Phins or at least look good losing and that will be meaningful progress for the franchise.  

I'm pretty sure getting to 2-2 vs. a team in a state they never win against, is meaningful progress but I keep forgetting that the playoffs are being decided by point differential. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Jacksonville win where Wilson threw for 102 yards was the 4th and final win of that season.  The Houston game where Wilson threw for 145 yards was the 3rd win of the season.

The Titans win and the Mike White Bengal game came earlier in the season.

Yes and it was a springboard to this season's .500 record!

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19 hours ago, Paradis said:

Foreword: I want to be excited. Objective here isn't find a way around that.  

 

So while many of you have gone through a box of Kleenex this week, here's a list of things i would like to see against MIA to inflate comfort levels from "marginal at best" into "an El Camino with new paint".

  1. Getting a W that isn't a result of broken plays/onside kicks, 4th quarter dramatics; including (but not limited to) opposing QBs handing out interceptions.
  2. Showing up with a gameplan -- one that is put in motion in the first half of the game. So... a "plan" 
  3. Zack doing more than throwing slants vs Man, and Posts vs Zone... let's see some timing routes, outside throws, fades, etc
  4. re-read point 3...  DC will already be scheming with that in mind.
  5. Need more production from the LOS... runs, screens, bubbles, reverses -- that stuff is supposed to be the Flower's butter.
  6.  And god help us if can't dictate the pace of a game for 4 quarters.. [I'll even take 3]... Time of possession, play with lead, make the opponent uncomfortable.. you know, winner stuff. 

 

This is the way,

I agree.  If we are really making progress, we need to start dictating the game (rather than playing inconsistent football and having to come back in the 4Q).  I'm willing to give ZW the benefit of the doubt and blame the 1st 3 quarters last week on "rust" since it was his first game back after 7 weeks.  At least he played very well in the 4Q so that will hopefully mean he's "trending up".  And if ZW is the real deal, I think it will help the entire team out (including the defense).  

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38 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'm pretty sure getting to 2-2 vs. a team in a state they never win against, is meaningful progress but I keep forgetting that the playoffs are being decided by point differential. 

I'm looking for sustainable progress.  The Browns blowing a game they had a 99.8 % chance of winning and the Steelers blowing one they had a 90+ % chance of winning (and the Jets doing it against a rookie QB making his first appearance in a game he didn't start) is not exactly sustainable.  In short, if the team plays like it did against Cleveland and Pittsburgh and expects to beat the Dolphins, even at home and against a team with tons of injuries, I would say they have very little shot.  But if they use the performance to date as a springboard to BETTER play, sure, we have a good shot at pulling out the W and future W's.  

This "A win is a win" stuff is cute but we've seen this movie many times before.  No, a win here and there is not all that counts if you're not building towards something.  Any team can beat anybody in this league because sh*t happens in football.  It's a big reason why there's only been 2 undefeated regular seasons and only a handful of winless seasons in NFL history.  But you also can't depend on "sh*t happens" every week to pile up wins.  HOW the team plays is just as important as the W-L result.  Right now I'm guessing most of us are hopeful this team wins about 7-8 games.  I think we've looked more like a 4-5 win team to date.  

The team did look better in Week 4 than it had for most of Weeks 1-3 but was that just marginal improvement or something they'll be able to repeat?  That's a question that needs to be answered in Week 5.

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20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm looking for sustainable progress.  The Browns blowing a game they had a 99.8 % chance of winning and the Steelers blowing one they had a 90+ % chance of winning (and the Jets doing it against a rookie QB making his first appearance in a game he didn't start) is not exactly sustainable.  In short, if the team plays like it did against Cleveland and Pittsburgh and expects to beat the Dolphins, even at home and against a team with tons of injuries, I would say they have very little shot.  But if they use the performance to date as a springboard to BETTER play, sure, we have a good shot at pulling out the W and future W's.  

This "A win is a win" stuff is cute but we've seen this movie many times before.  No, a win is not all that counts if you're not building towards something.  Any team can beat anybody in this league because sh*t happens in football.  It's a big reason why there's only been 2 undefeated regular seasons and only a handful of winless seasons in NFL history.  But you also can't depend on "sh*t happens" every week to pile up wins.  HOW the team plays is just as important as the W-L result.  Right now I'm guessing most of us are hopeful this team wins about 7 games.  I think we've looked more like a 3 or 4-win team to date.

The team did look better in Week 4 than it had for most of Weeks 1-3 but was that just marginal improvement or something they'll be able to repeat?  That's a question that needs to be answered in Week 5.

You're so weak, hedging again, disgusting wannabe dark sider. 

 

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5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You're so weak, hedging again, disgusting wannabe dark sider. 

Not weak.  Jaded.  This sunshiny stuff has been going on for a long time here and never seems to work out well.   

Can you dispute anything I said above?  Anything I said that was unreasonable? 

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not weak.  Jaded.  

Can you dispute anything I said above?  Anything I said that was unreasonable?

Yes, obviously it's all malarky.  The NY Jets dont care about your feelings.   Your take that a "win is a win stuff is cute" has no substance and masked in your opinion of something that you just admitted comes from a jaded perspective.  I could just as easily make the case that "nobody gives a **** about style points" and it would have just as much merit.  You honestly think the Jets are sitting around feeling sorry for themselves for being 2-2?  gtfoh  lol 

There are numerous ways the Jets showed progress this season.  Your admitted jaded perspective is keeping you from seeing it.  And that's fine but be committed.  This hedging garbage is for pansies and crying about being treated how you're acting is weak. 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If the Jets lose by something like 6 points or less and look competitive in the process, that would be good enough for me.  

We all say that, but if/when it happens the board will be full of calls to fire everybody because only a poorly coached team would blow the coverage/commit the penalty that directly caused the loss.

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7 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Yes, obviously it's all malarky.  The NY Jets dont care about your feelings.   Your take that a "win is a win stuff is cute" has no substance and masked in your opinion of something that you just admitted comes from a jaded perspective.  I could just as easily make the case that "nobody gives a **** about style points" and it would have just as much merit.  You honestly think the Jets are sitting around feeling sorry for themselves for being 2-2?  gtfoh  lol 

There are numerous ways the Jets showed progress this season.  Your admitted jaded perspective is keeping you from seeing it.  And that's fine but be committed.  This hedging garbage if for pansies and crying about being treated how you're acting is weak. 

 

I would hope the Jets are aware that their 2-2 record has mostly come through smoke and mirrors and are working on the many weaknesses we have so maybe we can end our 12-game losing streak against divisional foes.  I dunno, just a thought.  They don't give a f**k that you believe in them, either, so I don't see the relevance of that.  

If there's any hedging going on on my part its because I've been accused my at least one moderator of being a troll lately and I'm trying to see the positives where they're available so I can be left the f**k alone.  If that's crying, whatever, I feel like I've been here long enough to not be given that treatment but I suppose not.

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The cynic's (I think realists') take is that the QB is the most important player on the field and BYU has looked bad -- like bottom barrel -- in 90% of the time he's been on it.

The positive take is he turned a real corner in the off-season and after knocking the rust off for 3 quarters at Pittsburgh, we saw the real him in Q4.

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I would hope the Jets are aware that their 2-2 record has mostly come through smoke and mirrors and are working on the many weaknesses we have so maybe we can end our 12-game losing streak against divisional foes.  I dunno, just a thought.  They don't give a f**k that you believe in them, either, so I don't see the relevance of that.  

If there's any hedging going on on my part its because I've been accused my at least one moderator of being a troll lately and I'm trying to see the positives where they're available so I can be left the f**k alone.  If that's crying, whatever, I feel like I've been here long enough to not be given that treatment but I suppose not.

Longevity doesn't matter. Your opinion does.

Don't see positive people who are just as repetitive/confrontational (if not more so) getting the same heat.

Que sera, sera.

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Just now, jgb said:

Longevity doesn't matter. Your opinion does.

Don't see positive people who are just as repetitive if not more so getting the same heat.

Que sera, sera.

Nor does it seem to matter whether a generally positive fan suddenly gets pissed off at the play on the field or stops thinking the team is any good.  If it's the other way around you're suddenly "hedging" or "flip flopping".

Strange times indeed.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I would hope the Jets are aware that their 2-2 record has mostly come through smoke and mirrors and are working on the many weaknesses we have so maybe we can end our 12-game losing streak against divisional foes.  I dunno, just a thought.  They don't give a f**k that you believe in them, either, so I don't see the relevance of that.  

If there's any hedging going on on my part its because I've been accused my at least one moderator of being a troll lately and I'm trying to see the positives where they're available so I can be left the f**k alone.  If that's crying, whatever, I feel like I've been here long enough to not be given that treatment but I suppose not.

Again, it is your opinion that it's smoke and mirrors.  The Jets beat the Steelers for 3 out of 4 quarters.  That's winning Football in the NFL.  They are 1-0 with their starting QB coming back fresh off injury.  About 30 minutes ago you said you'd be happy with a competitive loss and now you're demanding a win.  You're all over the place and not even worth my brilliance anymore.

You can do whatever the **** you want, nobody is saying otherwise, you brought this sh*t up, you twat.  lol  

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Nor does it seem to matter whether a generally positive fan suddenly gets pissed off at the play on the field or stops thinking the team is any good.  If it's the other way around you're suddenly "hedging" or "flip flopping".

Strange times indeed.

When it's like 200 against 5, obviously the 200 need institutional protection. 

No Way Wtf GIF by Harlem

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Again, it is your opinion that it's smoke and mirrors.  The Jets beat the Steelers for 3 out of 4 quarters.  That's winning Football in the NFL.  They are 1-0 with their starting QB coming back fresh off injury.  About 30 minutes ago you said you'd be happy with a competitive loss and now you're demanding a win.  You're all over the place and not even worth my brilliance anymore.

You can do whatever the **** you want, nobody is saying otherwise, you brought this sh*t up, you twat.  lol  

They were not a good team for 3/4 quarters.  The Steelers sucking and replacing their QB midgame with a rookie making his first appearance does not mean the Jets were any good.  Just better than the sh*tty Steelers. 

I'd say the Jets played well for about 1-1.5 quarters on Sunday.  Maybe we can get 2+ against Miami.

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Again, it is your opinion that it's smoke and mirrors.  The Jets beat the Steelers for 3 out of 4 quarters.  That's winning Football in the NFL.  They are 1-0 with their starting QB coming back fresh off injury.  About 30 minutes ago you said you'd be happy with a competitive loss and now you're demanding a win.  You're all over the place and not even worth my brilliance anymore.

You can do whatever the **** you want, nobody is saying otherwise, you brought this sh*t up, you twat.  lol  

Yes, we all concede that anything that isn't a fact is an opinion.

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7 minutes ago, jgb said:

The cynic's (I think realists') take is that the QB is the most important player on the field and BYU has looked bad -- like bottom barrel -- in 90% of the time he's been on it.

The positive take is he turned a real corner in the off-season and after knocking the rust off for 3 quarters at Pittsburgh, we saw the real him in Q4.

lol, of course your perspective is the "realist" while you ignore that Zach was 4-6 for 80 yards and a receiving TD at the time the Jets were up 10-0.

Look, this is just silly at this point and has nothing to do with 80 being weak and hedging.  I at least respect your negativity.  You're all in.  He's a little hedgy wannabe. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I would hope the Jets are aware that their 2-2 record has mostly come through smoke and mirrors and are working on the many weaknesses we have so maybe we can end our 12-game losing streak against divisional foes.  I dunno, just a thought.  They don't give a f**k that you believe in them, either, so I don't see the relevance of that.  

If there's any hedging going on on my part its because I've been accused my at least one moderator of being a troll lately and I'm trying to see the positives where they're available so I can be left the f**k alone.  If that's crying, whatever, I feel like I've been here long enough to not be given that treatment but I suppose not.

If you want to call the Cleveland game smoke and mirrors, fine, no issue with that. How was the Steelers game smoke and mirrors, unless we're taking the angle that any 4th quarter comeback is somehow illegitimate?

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29 minutes ago, jgb said:

The cynic's (I think realists') take is that the QB is the most important player on the field and BYU has looked bad -- like bottom barrel -- in 90% of the time he's been on it.

The positive take is he turned a real corner in the off-season and after knocking the rust off for 3 quarters at Pittsburgh, we saw the real him in Q4.

That wasn't rust he knocked off in the off season, it was the boots off a milf or ten. 

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33 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

We all say that, but if/when it happens the board will be full of calls to fire everybody because only a poorly coached team would blow the coverage/commit the penalty that directly caused the loss.

sure - but those people are idiots.

we're the true fans

/s

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34 minutes ago, jgb said:

The cynic's (I think realists') take is that the QB is the most important player on the field and BYU has looked bad -- like bottom barrel -- in 90% of the time he's been on it.

The positive take is he turned a real corner in the off-season and after knocking the rust off for 3 quarters at Pittsburgh, we saw the real him in Q4.

It was a bit more of the same for 3 quarters. Bad QB play promoted by not being able to handle a tightening pocket. 

Only on the 4th quarter we saw him actually timing his throws appropriately. 

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9 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

If you want to call the Cleveland game smoke and mirrors, fine, no issue with that. How was the Steelers game smoke and mirrors, unless we're taking the angle that any 4th quarter comeback is somehow illegitimate?

If the dope OC just calls runs, we most likely never see the ball before time, and our timeouts, are gone.  Having Pickett--a rookie who just went in after half--throw a deep ball in that spot is just beyond stupid from a game management perspective.   Not taking anything away from the team for converting at the end.  But an idiot OC's flawed decision saved us.  

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2 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

If the dope OC just calls runs, we most likely never see the ball before time, and our timeouts, are gone.  Having Pickett--a rookie who just went in after half--throw a deep ball in that spot is just beyond stupid from a game management perspective.   Not taking anything away from the team for converting at the end.  But an idiot OC's flawed decision saved us.  

That's the NFL though, when two teams who have a similar talent level play each other, it always comes up to what coach's do.

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3 hours ago, slats said:

Lol, they’re underdogs for a reason. If they can snatch this one, it’ll be huge. By biggest concern is the letdown after the emotional win. That’s like the history of the franchise. But there’s no excuse not to be up for Miami. 

I absolutely presume they’ll be up for the game because I think that’s what Saleh would be good at—managing positive momentum. What I’m curious about will be Zach’s momentum and what happens if Miami runs a bunch of man coverage. We really need to see some consecutive good Zach games start happening, and this stretch could make or break him, imo. 

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13 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

If the dope OC just calls runs, we most likely never see the ball before time, and our timeouts, are gone.  Having Pickett--a rookie who just went in after half--throw a deep ball in that spot is just beyond stupid from a game management perspective.   Not taking anything away from the team for converting at the end.  But an idiot OC's flawed decision saved us.  

Huh? They had just called a run and lost 5 yards the play before the pick, and there was 3:45 on the clock when they threw the pick. If they run twice there they more than likely don't come close to getting a first down, have to attempt a long field goal, and whether they make it or not give the ball back to the Jets in a one score game with either 3:30ish (if the Jets use 2 timeouts) or 2:10ish (if they don't use timeouts) left to play. In neither scenario is the game over, and the play calling didn't save anything except maybe a couple of timeouts.

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