“Time after time, Zach Wilson shows off his enormous Talent - Baldy’s Breakdowns

[slimjasi]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I actually thought his first half was better than what the stats showed. Some of his best plays in the first half were just avoiding sacks and throwing the ball away. Stuff that would have gone very badly with rookie Zach ended up as just incompletions.

I caught a lot of flack for that in the game thread but I stand by it. 4th quarter was outstanding and that's where QB's make their money.

I was fine with him in the first half until the pick right before halftime - just check the ball down there or throw it out of bounds. No reason to throw that pass. The pass to Conklin in the 3rd that ended up being picked off was too high, but still should have been caught. Other than those two plays, the only other play that annoyed me was the misfire to Breece Hall on the wheel route where he had Uzomah wide open for an easy first down (and btw, Hall could have caught that one, as well). 

But overall, I don't know how any real Jets fan isn't encouraged from what they saw in his first game back. My biggest concern with Zach is his ability to stay healthy - especially given his proclivity for extending plays and scrambling, I just worry about him getting hurt. If he stays healthy, he's going to be the guy here. And 4th quarter magic is absolutely something that some QBs have and others don't. 

[FootballLove]

47 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Check out all my former posts on ZW.  I Always say he's got it in the arm and in the legs.  Ask any milf and they'll tell you he's got it elsewhere also.

His problems have been all mental.  AND.... I did not see enough if any improvement last season,'

Let's go over it again.

1. When he improvises, he often messes up.   If you cant set and you know it, don't throw the ball because you know it wont go where you wish it would.  We have seen that too many times.

2. If you have a nice pocket, don't bail out on it and start running around.  Step up, set clean and throw.  You have the arm strength to thread the needle if you are set.  If there are no clear targets, throw it away. But... He don't do it.

3. Your passing plays are timing plays that should, in a perfect world go to the first read.  Don't depend on a perfect world and then start running like a turkey on November 24th if it aint there.  Use your head BEFORE you get the football in your hands.  What to do with my arm and the ball if my blue chip aint there ??? Besides running that is.  I don't see indications that he has multiple options in mind if the first one aint there.  Especially if he has a pocket. 

A good NFL QB starts throwing the ball to three places in his mind before the ball gets into his hands.

ZW has looked more like a college passer that aims the ball after the snap as opposed to an NFL caliber QB that executes the best option he had in mind before the play started. 

That is ALLL mental.  All of it.  Not just study work and learning to go through a progression,  It is a mindset too. 

Thus far, I don't see it happening.  Sure,  the flashes of great arm talent, but I need to see the NFL QB mindset on every single play.  

Yup. 

When evaluating college QBs to see if they're any good, the entire conversation should be about brain talent, long before we get to arm talent. But in reality, arm talent is all we ever hear about.

[slimjasi]

Just now, FootballLove said:

Yup. 

When evaluating college QBs to see if they're any good, the entire conversation should be about brain talent, long before we get to arm talent. But in reality, arm talent is all we ever hear about.

That's because there is no verified way to measure "brain talent" as it pertains to playing QB in the NFL. You need to figure out which QBs will be able to see the field and process information quickly enough in real time to make good decisions with the ball on a consistent basis, while dealing with an NFL pass rush. How do you test for this? 

[FootballLove]

Just now, slimjasi said:

That's because there is no verified way to measure "brain talent" as it pertains to playing QB in the NFL. You need to figure out which QBs will be able to see the field and process information quickly enough in real time to make good decisions with the ball on a consistent basis, while dealing with an NFL pass rush. How do you test for this? 

You are right of course. I guess seeing our potential FQB play against top teams, top defenses will give a glimpse into his metal makeup. Does he get happy feet and bail in a tight pocket? Can he come off his first read and nail something downfield with pass rushers in his face? Things we only get to see in tough situations, tough games. Competiton he faced (or didn't) can go a long way to evaluating brain talent along with arm talent. I guess...

[Warfish]

His arm strength and ability to throw literal missiles has never been my concern with Zach.

Same for his elusiveness in the pocket, of which he is quite good.

His issues are:

1. Consistency.  He is the epitome so far of inconsistent.

2. His accuracy.  50% (like vs. the Steelers) doesn't cut it at the NFL level.  And his career 55.1% is truly bad.  It must improve.

3. His touch.  Put simply, on passes that aren't bullets, he's pretty bad.  His issues with dump offs are well known/documented, but even on other passes he has a bad habit of throwing too hard, too high and too behind his receivers, and that is where many of his "drops" come from.  He's not good hitting more touch-based passes to the receiver in stride.

4. His decision making and vision.  He doesn't see open receivers often enough to be concerning.  He also holds the ball too long IMO.  He also has a tendency to zero in on a single receiver a little often.  We have enough weapons that shouldn't be needed.

Now, most of these issues can be improved on, but he really does need to improve on them.  

Sunday was a good start, but I'm most looking forward to seeing how he builds on it from there vs. the Phins and beyond.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

did you not see flashes of this last year?

or was the 4th quarter the best you have seen him play (best quarter that is)

I didn’t see those flashes last year no. But I’m also not overly excited by them. He better have the physical tools if he was #2 pick. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

We’ve reached the point in the narrative arc where 50%/252 yards/ 2 INTs/1 TD against Steelers backups is just superb quarterbacking. 

Victory lap worthy, in fact!

[65 Toss Power Trap]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I mean, he was superb in the 4th quarter, which is all people are saying.

I would think even the resident troll would have to acknowledge that 10-12 for 128 and a TD, while bringing the team back from 10 down to win in the 4th Q is pretty good. Maybe save your silliness for a week where it actually makes some sense. 

The 50% completion rate really bugged me coming out of Sunday. You know, the whole "here we go again with Zach" feeling. Then I started listening to the talking heads on Monday (analysts, ex pros, tv and radio voices) who were all praising him. Some were even saying he did a tremendous job before the 4th Quarter.

So, I went back and watched every throw. On at least 13 of the 36, the o line collapsed, or Zach made a miracle scramble and threw the ball away when other QBs would take a sack, or receivers blatantly dropped the pass. I had to re watch again, and sure enough it was 13.

I'm not saying that if the line held up better in the first three quarters and that if his receivers caught catchable balls, that you can count 13 more completions. That's 86% completion percentage, that's not right. But if you assume a more solid offensive line, and receivers catching catchable balls, and Zach getting more comfortable after his injury, a completion rate in the high or mid 60s makes a lot more sense with how Zach played Sunday.

The most important part though, is that he played like an all-pro when it counted the most. Is it a one off? I really don't think so. His last three games are Tampa Bay, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh. The Buffalo game was all kinds of crazy with all the players we were missing. There's nothing to take from that game. Is Zach going to keep playing how he did against Tampa and Pittsburgh, or is he going to play how he did the beginning of 2021?

The resident troll falls laughingly flat on his takes this week.

[jgb]

43 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Only when you win T0m, only when you win! 

If those last two drives were in the beginning of the game instead of the end, we likely lose and then everyone would be suicidal lol.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

We’ve reached the point in the narrative arc where 50%/252 yards/ 2 INTs/1 TD against Steelers backups is just superb quarterbacking. 

No. 10 of 12 for 126 and 2 long TD drives (65 and 81 yards)  down 10 in the 4th quarter vs a well coached fired up Steelers team in  Pittsburgh is superb quarterbacking.    

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

49 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I actually thought his first half was better than what the stats showed. Some of his best plays in the first half were just avoiding sacks and throwing the ball away. Stuff that would have gone very badly with rookie Zach ended up as just incompletions. Obviously could have been better, but not as bad as people make it IMO.

I caught a lot of flack for that in the game thread but I stand by it. 4th quarter was outstanding and that's where QB's make their money.

Many of the incompletions were throw aways when the protection broke down. And a handful of drops as well. You have to put statistics in context.  When he didn't have time or he didn't see what he wanted to see, he threw the ball away (other than the interception at the end of the first half).  

[GreenReaper]

9 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

 

What I like about this video is Baldy's emphasis on the OL play.  IMO it's the key to unlocking this offense for putting lots of points on that scoreboard. 

This was a makeshift OL.  It held the fort in pass pro but still lacks that zone blocking continuity to open up holes for Breece-Carter.  Hopefully Brown comes back to start at LT this Sunday and allows AVT to go back and play at his Pro Bowl level at RG.  If this OL can have the same players out there every week.  They'll get that chemistry together and make zone blocking more effective.  Just give some holes to run through and watch Breece explode.  That will set up play action and allow Zach to make even more impressive throws to those playmakers. 

Getting the OL to consistently give Zach 2.4 seconds to make his throes and opening up holes for Breece.  And the Jets can beat any team on a given day.  Compete against everyone.

Now lets go Jets...beat up Teddy...and soar...and score...on those Fins!

 

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Aside of taxes (which I would think would be more than $5m difference) you get a heck of a lot more for your money in Florida.

I saw someone did the math.  After factoring in home and away games, it was about a $6 million dollar difference.

 

As for getting more for your money, I guess it depends on where you are living, but I don’t see a major difference in cost from Florida to Jersey.  And I think its fine to choose Miami over NY/NJ.  I just wouldn’t be basing my decision on the extra money, when the difference is between $55 and $60 mil.  I can easily live on either.  I would just pick the place that would otherwise  make me happiest.  An extra $5 million in this situation isn’t going to make it or break it for me.  

[rldev]

6 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Tyreek is making a fortune and lives in a low tax state.  He won't regret it.

It may be a lower tax state(especially for the very wealthy), but it is not a low tax state. After Ian, the insurance market will sky rocket again. Home owners insurance is through the roof already. Property prices and taxes have been accelerating rapidly over the past decade. Sales and excise taxes are very high.  Income tax is just part of the equation and I'm sure there are ways around signing bonus taxes. But yes there is a difference, just not as much as people claim.

Hill thought he was going to play with Tom Brady.

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

His arm strength and ability to throw literal missiles has never been my concern with Zach.

Same for his elusiveness in the pocket, of which he is quite good.

His issues are:

1. Consistency.  He is the epitome so far of inconsistent.

2. His accuracy.  50% (like vs. the Steelers) doesn't cut it at the NFL level.  And his career 55.1% is truly bad.  It must improve.

3. His touch.  Put simply, on passes that aren't bullets, he's pretty bad.  His issues with dump offs are well known/documented, but even on other passes he has a bad habit of throwing too hard, too high and too behind his receivers, and that is where many of his "drops" come from.  He's not good hitting more touch-based passes to the receiver in stride.

4. His decision making and vision.  He doesn't see open receivers often enough to be concerning.  He also holds the ball too long IMO.  He also has a tendency to zero in on a single receiver a little often.  We have enough weapons that shouldn't be needed.

Now, most of these issues can be improved on, but he really does need to improve on them.  

Sunday was a good start, but I'm most looking forward to seeing how he builds on it from there vs. the Phins and beyond.

He's likely going to crash back down to Earth Sunday. Can't wait for the "We should have never traded Teddy " threads. Last game 4th quarter could be the very best we get out of him. Other teams will look at that film and figure out what he can and can't do. I think that was his Mike White against the Bengal game from last year. Maybe not, you never know but I feel like I actually do. 

[slats]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

4. His decision making and vision.  He doesn't see open receivers often enough to be concerning.  He also holds the ball too long IMO.  He also has a tendency to zero in on a single receiver a little often.  We have enough weapons that shouldn't be needed.

Really didn’t see see a lot of this on Sunday. He appeared to be looking off defenders and going thru his progressions to me. 

[Warfish]

Just now, The Crusher said:

He's likely going to crash back down to Earth Sunday.

I sure hope not.  Taking a step forward, instead of back, would be a great way to rally his doubters behind him.

If he poops the bed vs. the Phins, it's just more of the same 2021 Zach.  No one wants to see that.

Lets hope he rises the the challenge.

Just now, The Crusher said:

Can't wait for the "We should have never traded Teddy " threads.

Gosh, I hope not.

Just now, The Crusher said:

Last game 4th quarter could be the very best we get out of him. Other teams will look at that film and figure out what he can and can't do. I think that was his Mike White against the Bengal game from last year. Maybe not, you never know but I feel like I actually do. 

You're more cynical than me for a change.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

4. His decision making and vision.  He doesn't see open receivers often enough to be concerning.  He also holds the ball too long IMO.  He also has a tendency to zero in on a single receiver a little often.  We have enough weapons that shouldn't be needed.

Did you pick this up from the coaching tape/view? Because IMO no way you can pick this up from TV

[Warfish]

Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Did you pick this up from the coaching tape/view? Because IMO no way you can pick this up from TV

If you say so.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If you say so.

you can't, you don't have the right view of the coverage, this is not possible from TV. I am not saying you are wrong with your assessment, but I am saying you can't get this from TV view

 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you can't, you don't have the right view of the coverage, this is not possible from TV. I am not saying you are wrong with your assessment, but I am saying you can't get this from TV view

And I'm not of a mind to argue it is all.  I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it.

No doubt the Coaches' tapes are materially better.  But I think you can tell quite a bit from the TV Broadcast.

[The Crusher]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I sure hope not.  Taking a step forward, instead of back, would be a great way to rally his doubters behind him.

If he poops the bed vs. the Phins, it's just more of the same 2021 Zach.  No one wants to see that.

Lets hope he rises the the challenge.

Gosh, I hope not.

You're more cynical than me for a change.

We'll see. Just not getting my hopes up brother. 

[BigRy56]

If Zach puts it together for 4 quarters and delivers a win this Sunday, there is a legitimate shot at a wildcard birth this season. The back half of the schedule looks nice

[munchmemory]

9 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

If Zach puts it together for 4 quarters and delivers a win this Sunday, there is a legitimate shot at a wildcard birth this season. The back half of the schedule looks nice

[Chewy and the Jets]

Based on all this rhetoric it seems half this board would prefer:

Quarter 1-3:  18-22   200 yards, 2 tds, 0 int

Quarter 4:  0-10      80 yards, 0 tds, 1 int

Total:  18-32 (56.25%), 280 yards, 2 TDs, 1 Int

Over this:

Quarter 1-3:  8-24, 150 yards, 0 TD, 2 Ints

Quarter 4:     10-12, 128 yards, 1 TD, 0 int

Total:  18-36  (50%, 278 tards, 1 TD, 2 ints

 

Near identical stats just in different sequence.  I guess if we were winning big scenario 1 is fun with the lousy Q4.   Because most games are close (especially for us) I prefer the great finish.  I guess all the only stat that really matters though is the W which we got.

 

[Chewy and the Jets]

forgive my math on the 0 completions but you get my point

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

We'll see. Just not getting my hopes up brother. 

Is @JiFapono aware you're apparently a weak darksider negative nancy?

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Is @JiFapono aware you're apparently a weak darksider negative nancy?

You're disgusting.  MT not having hope because the Jets are the Jets is totally different and completely justifiable.  It is not comparable to your half measured, half stepping wannabe dark sider routine that you perform while keep your foot between door so you can walk back in at any time.

You're gross.  MT is beautiful.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

You're disgusting.  MT not having hope because the Jets are the Jets is totally different and completely justifiable.  It is not comparable to your half measured, half stepping wannabe dark sider routine that you perform while keep your foot between door so you can walk back in at any time.

You're gross.  MT is beautiful.

Popularity contest!  I see how it is.

Going back and forth is what we do as Jets fans.  We get a glimmer of hope only for it to be dashed the very next week.  It is what it is.

[munchmemory]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You're disgusting.  MT not having hope because the Jets are the Jets is totally different and completely justifiable.  It is not comparable to your half measured, half stepping wannabe dark sider routine that you perform while keep your foot between door so you can walk back in at any time.

You're gross.  MT is beautiful.

I wish @Maxman would create site badges like "Dark Sider" or "Anti-Zachser".  These would proudly be emblazoned over our username. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Chewy and the Jets said:

Based on all this rhetoric it seems half this board would prefer:

Quarter 1-3:  18-22   200 yards, 2 tds, 0 int

Quarter 4:  0-10      80 yards, 0 tds, 1 int

Total:  18-32 (56.25%), 280 yards, 2 TDs, 1 Int

Over this:

Quarter 1-3:  8-24, 150 yards, 0 TD, 2 Ints

Quarter 4:     10-12, 128 yards, 1 TD, 0 int

Total:  18-36  (50%, 278 tards, 1 TD, 2 ints

 

Near identical stats just in different sequence.  I guess if we were winning big scenario 1 is fun with the lousy Q4.   Because most games are close (especially for us) I prefer the great finish.  I guess all the only stat that really matters though is the W which we got.

 

Here is what I prefer, in order:

1. Win the game.

2. Win, and the QB meets certain thresholds of performance, i.e. 64% Comp. rate, 250 passing YPG, 2:1 TD:INT or better ratio.

3.  Win, and the QB CONSISTENTLY meets certain thresholds of performance, i.e. 64% Comp. rate, 250 passing YPG, 2:1 TD:INT or better ratio.

 

[The Crusher]

33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Is @JiFapono aware you're apparently a weak darksider negative nancy?

JiF finds my darkness sexy

24 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You're disgusting.  MT not having hope because the Jets are the Jets is totally different and completely justifiable.  It is not comparable to your half measured, half stepping wannabe dark sider routine that you perform while keep your foot between door so you can walk back in at any time.

You're gross.  MT is beautiful.

Love you sweet one. 

[Gramsci]

7 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You better believe he realizes that.  He’s also very smart.

Some of the plays I enjoyed seeing last Sunday included him leaving the pocket and tossing it out of bounds when he saw there was nothing there and the play was busted.  Last year when he first entered the league that was a recipe for disaster as he felt he had to be Superman EVERY play and lift all the garbage surrounding him up all at once.

He might realize that, but can he be consistent? Because it seems to be an ever present issue with him. No one disputes that he has a tremendous arm, but he just holds onto the ball to long, product of his footwork and just not seeing the field I think.

[whodeawhodat]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Aside of taxes (which I would think would be more than $5m difference) you get a heck of a lot more for your money in Florida.

also, would you want to live in dirty jers or miami beach with your milllios