Zach Wilson is back: Week 4 analysis - QB School

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

How many did he throw, 2?  
Basically like every other QB

Eh. He does it even though there’s zero pressure with plenty of time. I don’t see that too much from other QBs. 

I’d you’re gonna be a top QB, you have to hit those lay ups. Simple. 

[Cyberjet]

I think this stuff is great. The fear with Wilson is that he doesn’t process fast enough. We know he has an arm to make up for some of this but there were alot of missed opportunities. Hopefully with time he’ll cleanup his mechanics and improve his processing. The game is still a bit fast for him

[jgb]

19 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

I think this stuff is great. The fear with Wilson is that he doesn’t process fast enough. We know he has an arm to make up for some of this but there were alot of missed opportunities. Hopefully with time he’ll cleanup his mechanics and improve his processing. The game is still a bit fast for him

There's an old saying that "you can improve the feet but not the arm or brain" when it comes to young QBs...

 

[Cyberjet]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

There's an old saying that "you can improve the feet but not the arm or brain" when it comes to young QBs...

 

We shall find out. He won’t last long if he doesn’t process faster. However, I still think it’s early. Last half of season will show us a lot. 

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

There's an old saying that "you can improve the feet but not the arm or brain" when it comes to young QBs...

 

Brady improved his arm strength and Allen and Manning (among others) both improved their “brains”

[jgb]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Brady improved his arm strength and Allen and Manning (among others) both improved their “brains”

And sometimes you still lose when you double down on an 11.

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Eh. He does it even though there’s zero pressure with plenty of time. I don’t see that too much from other QBs. 

I’d you’re gonna be a top QB, you have to hit those lay ups. Simple. 

Like every other QB.  

[maury77]

17 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I would think just the opposite.  

I think it has more to do with giving the QB a better look at the defense from shotgun. 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I think it has more to do with giving the QB a better look at the defense from shotgun. 

Yes, generally speaking, you would think so.  However, it's making it easier on the defense by becoming less dynamic and more predictable.  There is no deception, the playbook is condensed, you're giving them the same look over and over again and it takes all the pressure off the back end of the D.  You literally have only like 1 run play you can call and makes play action completely ineffective.  You're also limiting your route tree, which is unfortunate considering the playmakers the Jets have at their disposal, which is probably why on all the break downs you've seen, you've seen some wonky spacing and basically mirroring routes.  Basically, you're asking your QB to be perfect if you play from shotgun the entire game in the NFL which is weird when Zach Wilson is your QB.

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

13 hours ago, jgb said:

There's an old saying that "you can improve the feet but not the arm or brain" when it comes to young QBs...

 

whose idiotic saying is this? you can't improve their brain? so experience doesnt help a qb? this is a dumb statement, even for you

[maury77]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Yes, generally speaking, you would think so.  However, it's making it easier on the defense by becoming less dynamic and more predictable.  There is no deception, the playbook is condensed, you're giving them the same look over and over again and it takes all the pressure off the back end of the D.  You literally have only like 1 run play you can call and makes play action completely ineffective.  You're also limiting your route tree, which is unfortunate considering the playmakers the Jets have at their disposal, which is probably why on all the break downs you've seen, you've seen some wonky spacing and basically mirroring routes.  Basically, you're asking your QB to be perfect if you play from shotgun the entire game in the NFL which is weird when Zach Wilson is your QB.

 

I agree, but maybe the staff is concerned about Wilson's ability to read the defense from under center, so it is a pick your poison situation. 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, maury77 said:

I think it has more to do with giving the QB a better look at the defense from shotgun. 

That’s always been the explanation for the use of shotgun formations

[JustInFudge]

20 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I agree, but maybe the staff is concerned about Wilson's ability to read the defense from under center, so it is a pick your poison situation. 

For sure but hypothetically, and maybe it's just a feel thing per QB but playing from under center should give him even more time to read the defense because it brings play action, roll outs, boot legs, etc. into play that currently is not which all extend the time of a play and give him longer to find the right guy and in this fantasy land, takes advantage of mobility/arm strength because if the secondary is on their toes for a second, Moore/Wilson have the speed to make you pay.  Also makes play calling easier, idk, all good, I'm just more so talking theory at this point.

 

 

[Patriot Killa]

On 10/6/2022 at 12:48 PM, JiFapono said:

First off, JT is by far the best at this.  I dont think anyone even comes close to his break downs.  Something that really stood out as I was watching this was that they were all from shotgun.  So I looked at his splits, he only took 5 snaps from under center vs. the Steelers.  Just seems to be you're really limiting the playbook and hurting the run game by giving so few looks from under center.

I agree, watched the JT video last night & he’s the best of the best.

[Hal N of Provo]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:45 PM, jgb said:

There's an old saying that "you can improve the feet but not the arm or brain" when it comes to young QBs...

 

But it’s wrong.   Cause he’s improved his brain against more looks.  Building a mental library so he can play on instinct.  
 

[Maynard13]

On 10/6/2022 at 1:26 PM, Warfish said:

I am sure we'd all love it if Zach Wilson showed the same kind of growth/improvement Josh Allen showed.

They should have taken Josh Allen. Idiots.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

47 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

They should have taken Josh Allen. Idiots.

Allen would not be close to the Allen of today if he was being coached up by what the Jets called “coaches”.

The guy could barely hit 50% of his passes at Wyoming, the only reason for a first round grade on him was other worldly physical metrics, Arm and Wheels.

Buffalo did an outstanding job making him what he is.

[rtnelson]

In my opinion it is easy to see the growth as a player from this time last year, even though the stats may not show it.  As long as je can stay healthy and keep improving, there is no jeed to,cone to any conclusions either way just yet.

[jgb]

5 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

But it’s wrong.   Cause he’s improved his brain against more looks.  Building a mental library so he can play on instinct.  
 

And an apple a day doesn’t always keep the doctor away, either. But eating healthy is still a good idea.

[greenwichjetfan]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:45 PM, jgb said:

There's an old saying that "you can improve the feet but not the arm or brain" when it comes to young QBs...

 

HGH can do wonders for throw power (aka arm). Brady is proof positive.

[greenwichjetfan]

On 10/6/2022 at 12:48 PM, JiFapono said:

First off, JT is by far the best at this.  I dont think anyone even comes close to his break downs.  Something that really stood out as I was watching this was that they were all from shotgun.  So I looked at his splits, he only took 5 snaps from under center vs. the Steelers.  Just seems to be you're really limiting the playbook and hurting the run game by giving so few looks from under center.

Not giving an opinion either way on this because I really haven’t looked at any data yet, but I seem to recall Peyton playing almost exclusive from the gun during his time in Denver.

I believe RG3 also played the majority of his rookie year out from under center. 

Now, I’m certainly not comparing Zach to a GOAT or to one of the best rookies ever, but it does sort of appease the worries that an offense can’t be potent on the ground if a QB doesn’t play under center.

[Maynard13]

7 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Allen would not be close to the Allen of today if he was being coached up by what the Jets called “coaches”.

The guy could barely hit 50% of his passes at Wyoming, the only reason for a first round grade on him was other worldly physical metrics, Arm and Wheels.

Buffalo did an outstanding job making him what he is.

I would have taken the shot. He came in with ridiculous skills, arm strength, size good speed, cold weather QB. He obviously was a work in progress but what rookie QB isn't. Look at him today. he is the best QB in football. Yes better than Mahomes.

[maury77]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:51 PM, slimjasi said:

He was throwing it to Jeff smith on the 1st interception - but yeah, looks like Moore gave up on the route - leaving his corner free to roam and make the pick. 
 

also he definitely has to clean these short misses up - they are infuriating 

I'm going to disagree with JT on that one. Moore definitely dogs the route, but he was running a dig. If Moore ran the route at full speed, all that would happen would be Sutton being positioned even earlier to pick off the pass. You don't want to see Moore (or any WR) dogging routes, but on that particular play, I don't think it contributed  to the pick. It was a bad overthrow and a heads up play by a veteran CB to leave his assignment and make the play. 

[maury77]

I'm about halfway through the video and I think Wilson is basically what he was at the end of last year. He's gotten better at avoiding forced throws and he's hitting the first reads when they are open (particularly against zone coverage). There were also a couple of instances of good anticipation. That being said, his processing still leaves a lot to be desired. He's hanging on his first reads too long and then relying on the dump off. I'd like to see him getting to the second or third read faster or doing a better job pre-snap at identifying the right read. His mechanics are still failing him too often (the Conklin pick) and for god's sake, please stop running backwards so much. 

He hasn't regressed (like Darnold clearly did his third year), but we need to continue to see further improvements because he still has a long way to go. 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm going to disagree with JT on that one. Moore definitely dogs the route, but he was running a dig. If Moore ran the route at full speed, all that would happen would be Sutton being positioned even earlier to pick off the pass. You don't want to see Moore (or any WR) dogging routes, but on that particular play, I don't think it contributed  to the pick. It was a bad overthrow and a heads up play by a veteran CB to leave his assignment and make the play. 

Ok, but in that case, the play design was really bad - why would you run a flag route and a dig in the same area? 
 

Sullivan was basically saying that he refused to believe the play design could be so bad, bringing both WRs (and their defenders) all into the same area. 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Ok, but in that case, the play design was really bad - why would you run a flag route and a dig in the same area? 
 

Sullivan was basically saying that he refused to believe the play design could be so bad, bringing both WRs (and their defenders) all into the same area. 

Yeah nobody is “phone boothing” that far down the field.   Moore probably dogged it and ran the wrong route.  He’s young too.  They won.   This is the season to get that stuff worked out for the young players.  

[maury77]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Ok, but in that case, the play design was really bad - why would you run a flag route and a dig in the same area? 
 

Sullivan was basically saying that he refused to believe the play design could be so bad, bringing both WRs (and their defenders) all into the same area. 

It certainly could be a bad play design, it wouldn’t be the first time JT accused LaFleur of that.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, maury77 said:

It certainly could be a bad play design, it wouldn’t be the first time JT accused LaFleur of that.

And either way, it was always bad throw that shouldn’t have even been made in the first place 

[maury77]

1 hour ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Yeah nobody is “phone boothing” that far down the field.   Moore probably dogged it and ran the wrong route.  He’s young too.  They won.   This is the season to get that stuff worked out for the young players.  

Certainly could be the case either way, but it was still an overthrow. Even if the play is designed better or if Moore runs the correct route (assuming he ran the wrong one), your best case scenario there is an incomplete pass given where the ball was thrown. This isn’t a dig at Wilson as all QBs miss throws.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

2 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

I would have taken the shot. He came in with ridiculous skills, arm strength, size good speed, cold weather QB. He obviously was a work in progress but what rookie QB isn't. Look at him today. he is the best QB in football. Yes better than Mahomes.

You’re right in that his Ceiling couldn’t even be calculated, compared to Darnold and the rest.  I thought Allen was going to bust because of the old line which is true most of the time “you can’t teach accuracy”….but he not only hit his ceiling he’s gone through it.

Great job by Buffalo and of course Allen.