Hmmmmm is Zach Wilson really better than Lawrence; some Jags fans now feel he is!

[TuscanyTile2]

This is the full play.  

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is the full play.  

That's alot of effort to throw a quacking INT.

[TuscanyTile2]

28 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Two words:

Chad Pennington 

Check out his Hail Mary at the end of the Oakland game in 02 (regular season game not playoff loss)

Any Hail Mary from Chad Pennington is "the worst ever".  I couldn't believe they didn't start benching him and having a backup who had an NFL caliber arm make those throws.  Chad eventually started throwing 2 yards passes instead of Hail Mary's. 

[OCCH23]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'd be much happier to read these comments after Zach has a down day.  That's when we'll know he's arrived.

According to half this fan base that's exactly what happened yesterday . . .

 

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's alot of effort to throw an quacking INT.

I know he has a good arm. It's honestly strange he didn't throw that further. That ball left his arm at the 39 and landed just inside the 15. That's less than 50 yards in the air. Not really showing off the guns on that one. 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's alot of effort to throw a quacking INT.

I think he ran more yards than he threw for on that play.

[jetspenguin]

Said it before the draft...

Saying it again now

Trevor is a bust

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[Sammybighead]

1 hour ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Trevor Lawrence is the second coming of Matt Leinert, who was the second coming of Ken Dorsey.

They were all the same QB in college - guys who put up gaudy numbers while surrounded by overwhelming talent that would have won college games with a broomstick at QB.

He was never the guy people thought he was. He was a game manager surrounded by superior talent.

He doesn't have a great arm

He never showed an ability to elevate the talent around him.

He was never known as a student of the game.

He is an overly glamorized JAG. He is just a guy.

I dunno if this take is entirely fair or accurate. From the moment he stepped on the field at Clemson as a freshman he was the best player on the field. He beyond elevated that program and carried them to a national championship. If you saw something in him then that led you to believe he wouldn't be a successful pro qb (and the book is still out), you are a wiser man than most.

I still think he's gonna be fine and a very good qb. At this point, I'm not making any definitive statements on him or zach. Wayyyyyyy to early. One thing I'll say in zachs favor, I think his passion for the game and drive is better than Trevor "I don't need to play football" Lawrence 

[jetspenguin]

Trevor Lawrence is the second coming of Matt Leinert, who was the second coming of Ken Dorsey.
They were all the same QB in college - guys who put up gaudy numbers while surrounded by overwhelming talent that would have won college games with a broomstick at QB.
He was never the guy people thought he was. He was a game manager surrounded by superior talent.
He doesn't have a great arm
He never showed an ability to elevate the talent around him.
He was never known as a student of the game.
He is an overly glamorized JAG. He is just a guy.

THIS 100%

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[Gramsci]

41 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is the full play.  

That's horrific, I just died a bit inside.

[Klecko73isGod]

22 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

I dunno if this take is entirely fair or accurate. From the moment he stepped on the field at Clemson as a freshman he was the best player on the field. He beyond elevated that program and carried them to a national championship. If you saw something in him then that led you to believe he wouldn't be a successful pro qb (and the book is still out), you are a wiser man than most.

I still think he's gonna be fine and a very good qb. At this point, I'm not making any definitive statements on him or zach. Wayyyyyyy to early. One thing I'll say in zachs favor, I think his passion for the game and drive is better than Trevor "I don't need to play football" Lawrence 

He was never the best player on the field at Clemson.

Travis Etienne was the best player on that offense.

[August]

Zach is in a better situation if they traded places I bet Trevor would be looking better. 

[sciond]

So let's just give JD a W on this. 

It looks like he picked a decent QB.

Instead of another flop

[doitny]

this was one post from someone probably using his ALT that he made in Sept of this year. they are obviously not happy with Trevor, but it looks like nobody, but this one guy thinks Zach is better.

to be fair Trevor is on his 2nd HC and 2nd System in 2 years. that cant be helpful. maybe he needs more time with it.

i didnt watch the game but Jax had 422 total yards to 248 for the Texans. how do you only score 6 points with that many yards? 6-48 in penalties, no fumbles. even with Trevors endzone INT they still should have scored more.

and Etienne looks like the real thing. he has the same YPC as Hall at 4.9

maybe they dont have the right players to run this system. next year maybe he gets better.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is the full play.  

wow he threw that so short it look like a kickoff return

[maury77]

6 hours ago, nycdan said:

There are a few guys who, sometimes when they throw, you go WOW.

Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Brady are the ones that come to mind right now (well Brady up until this year maybe).  Zach has that kind of arm.  He's not getting the results of those other guys yet, but the physical talent is clear to see. 

Gives me hope. And like Red said, Hope is a dangerous thing.

Brady's arm makes you say "wow"?

[maury77]

Here is the tape on Wilson, Fields and Lawrence yesterday:

(sorry about the youtube block)

[maury77]

Based solely on yesterday's games:

Fields - I thought he was the best of the 3 this week. The game seems to finally be slowing down for him. Brought his team back from 3 TDs down, used his legs well (including the 50 something yard touchdown scramble that got called back) and hit a few nice shots down field (including a couple that were dropped). 

Wilson - Managed the game well and avoided the mistakes and backward scrambling that have plagued him at times. I'd like to see him start to take the next step and hit some plays down field. He's had an opportunity in both of the last 2 games (Hall in Pittsburgh and Conklin against Miami) where a guy got open deep and Wilson underthrew him. 

Lawrence - Man, he is looking rough. I never felt that he had a cannon, but I expected him to be a better decision maker. He's missing a lot of throws and the pick to Stingley in the end zone was absolutely brutal. 

[OCCH23]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

this was one post from someone probably using his ALT that he made in Sept of this year. they are obviously not happy with Trevor, but it looks like nobody, but this one guy thinks Zach is better.

to be fair Trevor is on his 2nd HC and 2nd System in 2 years. that cant be helpful. maybe he needs more time with it.

i didnt watch the game but Jax had 422 total yards to 248 for the Texans. how do you only score 6 points with that many yards? 6-48 in penalties, no fumbles. even with Trevors endzone INT they still should have scored more.

and Etienne looks like the real thing. he has the same YPC as Hall at 4.9

maybe they dont have the right players to run this system. next year maybe he gets better.

I assume you have a list of acceptable excuses for ZW that's just as long?

[doitny]

9 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

I assume you have a list of acceptable excuses for ZW that's just as long?

sorry i forgot, you cant have fair takes on this site.

Zach Wilson is the greatest i ever seen. he will make Tom Brady look like Brady Quinn.

is that better?

[OCCH23]

6 minutes ago, doitny said:

sorry i forgot, you cant have fair takes on this site.

Zach Wilson is the greatest i ever seen. he will make Tom Brady look like Brady Quinn.

is that better?

I'll take that as a no?

[nycdan]

42 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Brady's arm makes you say "wow"?

Listen, I'll say it again.  I hate him as much as anyone (well perhaps except Giselle now).

But go watch some of his throws to Moss.  He really could throw a nice long ball.  

Great....now bile is rising up in my throat.

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

I'll take that as a no?

so Trevor isnt at a disadvantage having 2 HCs in 2 seasons? didnt work out too well for Sam Darnold. 

Zach has that advantage. plus the talent is much better here on offense. so no Zach doesnt have any excuses. and i think you will find 95% of this board will agree with that.

he doesnt have to be an all pro, but he cant suck. this offense cant score 6 points. 

2nd year of Salah getting the players he needs to run his system and things are looking better than last year. give Peterson a 2nd year to get more of his type of players and then you can judge Trevor better.

[GreenReaper]

Zach has that short compact release with impressive velocity.  And he can move out of the pocket and flick his wrist and make uncanny throws downfield. 

He's the best young QB prospect since Namath.  He has the arm talent and mobility to succeed.   And this year he has the playmakers to put points on the scoreboard.  I feel good about his chances to be that QB.  By season's end...take enough significant steps...and be FQB NYJ...for 2023 and beyond.

That's all that matters to me.        

 

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

I will never forget after the Jets tanked that game to the patriots on national TV in 2020, mike felger a popular Boston based radio host said these words that I will never forget:

“The Jets are tanking to get that Lawrence kid and the way they threw that game was disgusting but I’m telling you when teams do things like this in sports the kid will suck or get hurt, something will happen but he won’t be the player everyone thinks he will be, he’s going to suck watch “

He'll "never forget"? He should; there was no tanking.

After outright winning the two prior games that undid being in the driver's seat for the #1 pick, that last "tanking" Pats game was tied at  the half and then the Jets scored on that first drive after halftime to take an early 2nd half lead. Score was even still tied entering the 4th quarter. Believe it or not, the Jets actually sucked that year when they were trying. 

Yeah sure. The HC tanked to seal the deal getting himself fired so the Jets could theoretically draft a better QB for the HC's replacement. Not just the HC, mind you. All the coaches on offense and defense who were about to be fired -- they'd have to be in on that tank job, too. And the players as well (starting with the QB who would've wanted to maintain clear control of the starting job; only thing that might have 100% put that into question was if the Jets ended up with the pick to draft Lawrence, so he threw 2 picks in the last 3 drives to get himself fired). Right.

If anyone, the team that tanked the end of the 2020 season was Jacksonville.

Jacksonville benched Minshew for the final 2 games after posting his 3rd 100+ QB rating of the season (22 of 29 with 2 TDs and 0 INTs) so they could go back to Mike Glennon for the final 2 games. 

Truth is that was so obvious the league should've docked Jacksonville their 1st round pick in the upcoming draft (if the commissioner wanted to put an end to tanking for good, that'd do it). Of course we'd have ended up with Lawrence, and then we'd predictably get blamed for "ruining" yet another QB prospect. 

But it's the Jets that tanked the close of the 2020 season, lol. If the Jets were tanking Lawrence would be sucking up here instead of down there.

[Gramsci]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Listen, I'll say it again.  I hate him as much as anyone (well perhaps except Giselle now).

But go watch some of his throws to Moss.  He really could throw a nice long ball.  

Great....now bile is rising up in my throat.

Brady can still spin it and he is 45. That's a non-debate on the human ken doll. 

[jgb]

10 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That throw looked like it came from Jennifer Lawrence.

_{All right.  I didn't actually see it.  I just wanted to say that.}

No one drops what Jennifer Lawrence is throwing

[Irish Jet]

Being the best in the draft class feels like being the fittest kid at fat camp right now tbh. 

[Anthony Jet]

9 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is the full play.  

97 totally giving up on the play 

[OCCH23]

7 hours ago, doitny said:

so Trevor isnt at a disadvantage having 2 HCs in 2 seasons? didnt work out too well for Sam Darnold. 

Zach has that advantage. plus the talent is much better here on offense. so no Zach doesnt have any excuses. and i think you will find 95% of this board will agree with that.

he doesnt have to be an all pro, but he cant suck. this offense cant score 6 points. 

2nd year of Salah getting the players he needs to run his system and things are looking better than last year. give Peterson a 2nd year to get more of his type of players and then you can judge Trevor better.

 

• Zack is from a smaller college, and played against a lower level of competition.  It was common knowledge he was going to need time to adjust to the NFL game
• Zack has had two injuries that have cost him 7 games and weeks of practice time  (TL has played 22 games, ZW only 15)
• Zack has played behind an unstable OL.  If/when they gel, shouldn't that make his life easier?
• Zack is on a team with a bunch of other young players who are also still learning the game.  Their improvement should overlap with his, no?
• Dating back to last year, Zack is on a string of 6 games where there is CLEAR evidence of improvement in his play.  You need less "blind faith" to believe in his future than in TL's
• Zack displays an elite physical ability that cannot be taught -- he was the #2 pick based on potential, not NFL-readiness

 

If you think all those excuses are fraudulent, you may be right -- maybe the guy stinks and time will prove that out.  Yet the same is true for TL and every other young QB out there.

My point was not that you should make excuses for ZW -- it was just interesting how quick you are to make them for another team's QB instead of your own . . .

 

[Irish Jet]

I think if anything these reactions are an example not to get too high or low on such a small sample size. Judging both on their NFL careers so far, neither have been good and you'd be splitting hairs between them to see which has been worse. 

3 games into this season Lawrence was one of the most statistically impressive passers in the league and his numbers in the previous two games were better than any Zach game to this point. Two games later and Zach is the sh*t while Lawrence is a fraud.

Maybe let the season play out first. 

[kdels62]

32 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I think if anything these reactions are an example not to get too high or low on such a small sample size. Judging both on their NFL careers so far, neither have been good and you'd be splitting hairs between them to see which has been worse. 

3 games into this season Lawrence was one of the most statistically impressive passers in the league and his numbers in the previous two games were better than any Zach game to this point. Two games later and Zach is the sh*t while Lawrence is a fraud.

Maybe let the season play out first. 

Weren’t you calling Zach a bust based on small sample size?

[More Cowbell]

14 hours ago, Supersonic said:

Exactly.  Neither of these guys have scratched the surface in the NFL yet.  Ask this question again in a couple of years.  The only thing evident to me right now is Zach's desire to win.  The kid plays balls out.  If his head catches up with his skill and hunger, he'll be a superstar.

Honestly, I think Lawrence wants  to win as badly as anyone. He was dealt the worse hand when it comes to him and Zach. It's really funny how people were saying Lawrence was getting advice to stay in school rather than play for the Jets but nobody ever talked about what an utter mess the Jags were

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, maury77 said:

Based solely on yesterday's games:

Fields - I thought he was the best of the 3 this week. The game seems to finally be slowing down for him. Brought his team back from 3 TDs down, used his legs well (including the 50 something yard touchdown scramble that got called back) and hit a few nice shots down field (including a couple that were dropped). 

Wilson - Managed the game well and avoided the mistakes and backward scrambling that have plagued him at times. I'd like to see him start to take the next step and hit some plays down field. He's had an opportunity in both of the last 2 games (Hall in Pittsburgh and Conklin against Miami) where a guy got open deep and Wilson underthrew him. 

Lawrence - Man, he is looking rough. I never felt that he had a cannon, but I expected him to be a better decision maker. He's missing a lot of throws and the pick to Stingley in the end zone was absolutely brutal. 

Conklin had a step on his guy but that’s a long pass to drop on a dime & hit his man in stride, from his own 9 to (what needed to be) around Miami’s 33ish, on a busted play not a timed one.

Conklin also might have been able to induce a DPI if he’d gotten his arm locked up on his bit of a comeback. Not that he couldn’t or shouldn’t have been able to, but it’s hardly a routine toss after running around to avoid another totally unblocked rusher on a busted/schoolyard play. Maybe if the throw led Conklin more towards the post, but then I don’t know if Baker had more inside positioning when the ball was first released.

It still beat taking a sack; had he just gone down that could’ve easily been the type we say afterwards that the QB had no time/no chance to get a pass off at all. Rather than taking the sure (but limited) 5-yard sack, escaping and buying time to throw it deep still gave him at worst a puncher’s chance at a long completion or DPI.

[Klecko73isGod]

In 22 games Trevor Lawrence has not shown any improvement. Fans here are already calling for C.J. Beathard to get a shot.

They all made the weather excuse for him in Philly when he fumbled four times. But the weather on Sunday was beautiful here in Jacksonville and he sucked against one of the worst teams in the league. 

Zach, on the other hand, has shown significant improvement. He has clearly gotten better and continues to improve.

I also see the way the team responds to him as opposed to Lawrence and it's not close. Zach is growing into a real leader. Lawrence reminds me of Darnold. He's got the 'C' on his chest, but did he earn it?