Hmmmmm is Zach Wilson really better than Lawrence; some Jags fans now feel he is!

[JiF]

17 hours ago, defensedoesntgetyoulaid said:

I was watching some of both games yesterday and this much is true without a doubt: Wilson has a much better arm. Lawrence was trying to push it down the field late on and he looked like Elvis straining to take his final dump.

Been saying this since college, he struggles having to push the ball down field, big time and the ball is rarely on target.  Lots of adjustments from his receivers.  All of it showing now in the NFL.

That said, I kinda of trust Doug Pederson to adjust the playbook/calling to take advantage of his strengths.  Going heavy RPO, quick hits, lots of horizontal stuff, they've got some guys that can take advantage of that too, so we'll see.  I think he can function in that role but asking TL to push the ball vertically, is a recipe for disaster.  Like you said, anything over 20 yards and it looks like he has to put every ounce of energy into it and it's ugly.

Shockingly, much rather have Zach. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Been saying this since college, he struggles having to push the ball down field, big time and the ball is rarely on target.  Lots of adjustments from his receivers.  All of it showing now in the NFL.

That said, I kinda of trust Doug Pederson to adjust the playbook/calling to take advantage of his strengths.  Going heavy RPO, quick hits, lots of horizontal stuff, they've got some guys that can take advantage of that too, so we'll see.  I think he can function in that role but asking TL to push the ball vertically, is a recipe for disaster.  Like you said, anything over 20 yards and it looks like he has to put every ounce of energy into it and it's ugly.

Shockingly, much rather have Zach. 

For his size he seems to push the ball downfield rather than sling it.  And in the nfl you sometimes need to throw lasers.  In the end if you’re really accurate that will be ok, like Brady, but also Brady really worked on his arm strength and footwork over the years.  Bottom line the weaker your arm the harder it is to fit the ball into small windows downfield and that will change how defenses play against you.

[JiF]

13 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

If Wilson turns out to be a franchise QB and Lawrence is a dud, we have to thank Gase for two of the most important acquisitions in franchise history.

[JiF]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

For his size he seems to push the ball downfield rather than sling it.  And in the nfl you sometimes need to throw lasers.  In the end if you’re really accurate that will be ok, like Brady, but also Brady really worked on his arm strength and footwork over the years.  Bottom line the weaker your arm the harder it is to fit the ball into small windows downfield and that will change how defenses play against you.

Yep, long strider too, it was all on display in college.  TL needs everything to be very clean to even get the throw off and the results are hit or miss.  Zach has shown that his quick release is effective in a messy phone both, huge advantage for an offense.  

[#27TheDominator]

I can't believe I read so much of a thread that said that Gardner "Menshew" was the best QB in Jags history and that Lawrence was worse than Lance and Fields. 

[Irish Jet]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Weren’t you calling Zach a bust based on small sample size?

 No.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

13 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

He was never the best player on the field at Clemson.

Travis Etienne was the best player on that offense.

Lol, agreed.

His freshman year he was like the 10th-15th best player on his team.  

Now by his junior year he was one of the best players.

[batman10023]

14 hours ago, Warfish said:

That's alot of effort to throw a quacking INT.

that was a weak ass block by 74 near the end.

[slats]

14 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is the full play.  

Arm strength isn’t everything, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Zach could throw it 45 yards from his knees. 

[doitny]

2 hours ago, OCCH23 said:

 

• Zack is from a smaller college, and played against a lower level of competition.  It was common knowledge he was going to need time to adjust to the NFL game
• Zack has had two injuries that have cost him 7 games and weeks of practice time  (TL has played 22 games, ZW only 15)
• Zack has played behind an unstable OL.  If/when they gel, shouldn't that make his life easier?
• Zack is on a team with a bunch of other young players who are also still learning the game.  Their improvement should overlap with his, no?
• Dating back to last year, Zack is on a string of 6 games where there is CLEAR evidence of improvement in his play.  You need less "blind faith" to believe in his future than in TL's
• Zack displays an elite physical ability that cannot be taught -- he was the #2 pick based on potential, not NFL-readiness

 

If you think all those excuses are fraudulent, you may be right -- maybe the guy stinks and time will prove that out.  Yet the same is true for TL and every other young QB out there.

My point was not that you should make excuses for ZW -- it was just interesting how quick you are to make them for another team's QB instead of your own . . .

 

for the record i made every excuse for Zach last year to guys on this board who thought he sucked. thats ridiculous to make that judgement in someones rookie season. this year im going to be a little harder on him cause not only is it his 2nd year. but those rookies and young guys you mentioned dont play like there young and need time to adjust.

last year Moore and Carter struggled in their first 5 or so games. then played better when Zach got hurt. maybe it was tied to Zachs struggles.

this years rookies Hall and GW have played well right from the start. these young guys dont need years to develop. there already there. Hall could be ROY if he keeps playing this way.

as for your 1st point it is valid. TL came from a top college with a stacked team and wasnt ask to do much so he might not be as good as people made him out to be. Zach will need time to be a all pro he just cant lay an egg this year. 

Zach can never have a 2nd and 3rd qt like in Pitts where he comp % is 25%. i dont care if he came right out of HS, after 17 games that is unacceptable.

and injuries are part of your skill IMO. hes one more injury away from being injury prone. i love the heart he had on that TD run, but reaching out with his arms is just stupid. he gets a hard hit to his expose arm which he also did then hes out again. having heart and balls does us no good on the IR. 

we all lived thru Sanchez and Darnold. and i know all the skills your going to say that makes Zach better. that doesnt matter. guys with better skills than Zach have busted in the NFL. i cant get crazy about Zach over beat a rookie who almost beat us in Pitt who gifted us 4 INTs or a rookie who we were only beating by 2 in the 4th played bad to help us win.

Rodgers is the real test. he wont throw 4 INTs or keep shooting himself in the foot. Zach doesnt even have to beat him, just play toe to toe with him. big difference between 2 rookies QBs playing there 1st ever game and a HOFer. and barring injurys we got no more rookies or backups on the schedule. 

[TuscanyTile2]

21 minutes ago, doitny said:

Rodgers is the real test. he wont throw 4 INTs or keep shooting himself in the foot. Zach doesnt even have to beat him, just play toe to toe with him. big difference between 2 rookies QBs playing there 1st ever game and a HOFer. and barring injurys we got no more rookies or backups on the schedule. 

In recent years, it feels like we've played well against the Packers (getting early leads IIRC) only to still lose.  I'd like to see Zach "shock the world" on Sunday with a big performance and have the national media start to talk about him as a potential top 5 QB in the NFL.

[maury77]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Conklin had a step on his guy but that’s a long pass to drop on a dime & hit his man in stride, from his own 9 to (what needed to be) around Miami’s 33ish, on a busted play not a timed one.

Conklin also might have been able to induce a DPI if he’d gotten his arm locked up on his bit of a comeback. Not that he couldn’t or shouldn’t have been able to, but it’s hardly a routine toss after running around to avoid another totally unblocked rusher on a busted/schoolyard play. Maybe if the throw led Conklin more towards the post, but then I don’t know if Baker had more inside positioning when the ball was first released.

It still beat taking a sack; had he just gone down that could’ve easily been the type we say afterwards that the QB had no time/no chance to get a pass off at all. Rather than taking the sure (but limited) 5-yard sack, escaping and buying time to throw it deep still gave him at worst a puncher’s chance at a long completion or DPI.

That's fine, I don't disagree with taking the shot, it's just that for a guy that many (not I) tout as having "special" arm talent, I'd like him to be able to get that pass out in front of the receiver. 

[maury77]

13 hours ago, nycdan said:

Listen, I'll say it again.  I hate him as much as anyone (well perhaps except Giselle now).

But go watch some of his throws to Moss.  He really could throw a nice long ball.  

Great....now bile is rising up in my throat.

Brady is the GOAT, but I never thought it was because of his arm strength. IMO, Brady's strength comes from being able to dissect the defense pre-snap probably better than anyone else in history and his ability to play in the clutch and on big stages. 

[Sperm Edwards]

19 minutes ago, maury77 said:

That's fine, I don't disagree with taking the shot, it's just that for a guy that many (not I) tout as having "special" arm talent, I'd like him to be able to get that pass out in front of the receiver. 

Meh, it was a broken play. Who's to say what a TE's acceleration is going to be from point A to point B that far downfield from some randomly-positioned starting point?

If it was a timed pattern they'd practiced, where right from the snap the ball is supposed to be thrown to a specific location, from his expected position within the pocket, that'd be different. This was him playing sandlot waving his target to go deeper after scrambling back 10 yards to avoid the unblocked rusher; a target he's had relatively little experience with (let alone that deep). Could just be he was afraid of overthrowing him, not that he couldn't reach. 

It's easy to say, from our sofas, that he should've thrown it 5 yards farther, or (like I asked) if he should've thrown it more towards the post to help offset that. I don't know Conklin's position/momentum from the point he waved him to go deeper or the moment he started his windup.

OR maybe he just made a bad throw that any plus-armed QB makes. But in the situation it isn't automatically an obvious screw-up that should've been easily avoided.

[OCCH23]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

That's fine, I don't disagree with taking the shot, it's just that for a guy that many (not I) tout as having "special" arm talent, I'd like him to be able to get that pass out in front of the receiver. 

I don't have any stat to back this up, but it does seem like most of ZW's long throws come up short (as opposed to sailing long).  As you say, strange for someone with "special arm talent" . . .