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Best Thing I Saw In Jets vs. Dolphins...


THE BARON
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Here's the article I mentioned...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/16/why-its-hard-to-copycat-the-shanahan-style-offense-daily-cover

A snippet...

Quote

...Installing outside zone is a holistic experience. The running backs coach has to believe in it and agree with the offensive line coach on the most intricate of details, like whether the running back should be aiming for the inside foot of the tight end or the outside foot of the tackle on an outside zone run....

 

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8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Quite honestly, the rushing scheme and its implementation are the things that will take the longest to come to fruition but have the biggest payoff for this offense.  I posted a long article from SI on it last year.  The Wide/Outside Zone Blocking Scheme that comes from Mike Shanahan and those dominant Broncos rushing teams of the late 90's and early 2000's, is a ****ing thing of beauty!  But it takes time.  It's about the offensive linemen, not the running backs.  That's why Denver was able to plug and play guys at RB for almost a decade and never miss a beat.  Anyone playing fantasy football back then knows that at a certain point you just drafted whoever the Denver RB was and didn't care about big name guys from other teams.

It's actually amazing that with all the turnover and changes the Jets have had on the OL they have been able to rush the ball moderately well.  It's a credit to both the coaching and the players who are absorbing the scheme and executing it.  This thing will really open up if and when the Jets can stabilize the OL group, stop having to move guys around due to injury, and let them play together for 5 or 6 weeks.

The system is really about the footwork with the OL.  The analogy I've heard is that it becomes like a well-choreographed ballet where the linemen are all in sync, the timing is precise, their feet are landing in a certain cadence and rhythm.  At that point the job of the RB is simply to go where the play is designed and maybe make one decision or one cut.  And, if you have a guy like Breece who can not only make the first decision/cut but also break a tackle or two at the 2nd or 3rd level then that's how a 5 yard rushes turn into a 20s.

Great post.  And, yesterday we saw that blocking scheme really starting to take hold with the players.  As you pointed out, the scheme is predicated on the assignment/movement of the offensive line, but the skill guys are also contributors to the run blocking.  Their positions are drawn up in the plays to be assigned/available to support the blocking at the second and third level of the defense either by taking defenders away from the play or blocking them.  That is a big part of play design that works along with the line blocking in the running game.  

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While I get not everyone is “sold “on Wilson, you have to realize he just turned 23 and only has like 12 NFL starts total.  He missed all of pre season and 3 games and won his first two games. Not only has he made progress ..::he has made immense progress.  And he has every bit of talent you want so his ceiling his high.  I’m really puzzled that people still think this after watching him last year into this year.  

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17 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Great post.  And, yesterday we saw that blocking scheme really starting to take hold with the players.  As you pointed out, the scheme is predicated on the assignment/movement of the offensive line, but the skill guys are also contributors to the run blocking.  Their positions are drawn up in the plays to be assigned/available to support the blocking at the second and third level of the defense either by taking defenders away from the play or blocking them.  That is a big part of play design that works along with the line blocking in the running game.  

An under appreciated part of Corey Davis's game is his run blocking.  You see it in some of Hall's better runs yesterday...

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7 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

An under appreciated part of Corey Davis's game is his run blocking.  You see it in some of Hall's better runs yesterday...

YES ! Also one of the reasons Keyshawn was so liked by Parcells and Henning. He was fantastic in the run blocking game due to his leverage and willingness to give it all for the win.  He sucks as a color commentator on ESPN but was one of the Jets best ever offensive players.

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26 minutes ago, AlexVanDyke said:

While I get not everyone is “sold “on Wilson, you have to realize he just turned 23 and only has like 12 NFL starts total.  He missed all of pre season and 3 games and won his first two games. Not only has he made progress ..::he has made immense progress.  And he has every bit of talent you want so his ceiling his high.  I’m really puzzled that people still think this after watching him last year into this year.  

He was inconsistent and kept making the same mistakes. Holding the ball too long, bailing out on a clean pocket, aiming the ball instead of anticipating, appearing as if he was not throwing the ball first in his mind pre-snap before throwing the ball with his arm, regularly getting lazy with footwork and always seeming to go for it all in one play instead of grasping the idea of building a drive.  He has a great arm and great wheels, but I want to see NFL QB play from the pocket especially since he already busted his ass twice. 

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5 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

He was inconsistent and kept making the same mistakes. Holding the ball too long, bailing out on a clean pocket, aiming the ball instead of anticipating, appearing as if he was not throwing the ball first in his mind pre-snap before throwing the ball with his arm, regularly getting lazy with footwork and always seeming to go for it all in one play instead of grasping the idea of building a drive.  He has a great arm and great wheels, but I want to see NFL QB play from the pocket especially since he already busted his ass twice. 

That can't possibly be what you see THIS year (so far), which by definition means he's taking tangible strides to getting better, no?

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

If anyone is interested, here was an interesting summation of the Jets game from two extreme football nerds. They’re both Saleh fans, Zach skeptics, and have generally been down on the Jets, but liked some things this week. Diante Lee explains defensive theory in a really interesting, sometimes wonky way, but I always learn a lot when he breaks stuff down even when it’s boring.   Mays is more focused on the passing game. 18:00 minute mark to the 28-ish mark. Good stuff. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000582207425

Those guys come across as airmchiar dweebs that think they know more about football then they actually do. 

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28 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

That can't possibly be what you see THIS year (so far), which by definition means he's taking tangible strides to getting better, no?

Yes, meaning there are clear and regular signs of improvement.  Still a long way from cementing himself as the guy.  Usually, though, ability to make the first strides bodes well for what comes next.  Not time to crown him, but I cant say "sure bust" any longer. 

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He’s played two games this year. In the first one he had back to back drives in the fourth quarter to win a ball game.

 

in the second one. The Jets were playing at an advantage because the other team had a third stringer in. They were running the ball well so his job was to take care of the football get it into the play makers hands and that’s exactly what he did 

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3 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Best thing I saw were the run blocking schemes.  Not taking anything away from BH, but the line and the skill guys were well directed.  I have not seen blocking that slick since Dan Henning was with the Jets.  For those that have been down on LaFleur, I think he may be the best coach on the payroll. 

Also, not time to get too excited about how good the Jets are.  They got a gift of luck vs Cleveland, the Steelers may be the worst team in the league and in their win and yesterday, they played a team without a QB.  They are probably still reeling over TT's condition.

GB will be an important game.  If the Jets are competitive, it actually will be time to figure the Jets as a contender.

My feeling was the Jets could win up to 10 games if they got good QB play and would not win more than 4 if the QB play was not there.

Let's see how Wilson does at GB. Quite a test, I'd say.  Playing in that stadium vs. one of the best QB's in the league. 

I'm still not sold on Wilson as a "franchise" QB.  but if he makes a good account of himself in that environment, I'll have to concede.  

Green Bay wilo be good measuring stick cause for all their faults they are nfl level team and should be taking advantage of us and smashing us to get right. If we win or even put up a good fight it will show that we really have improved a bit. If we get squashed with the coaching, the talent or even both are not up to snuff.

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3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If anyone is interested, here was an interesting summation of the Jets game from two extreme football nerds. They’re both Saleh fans, Zach skeptics, and have generally been down on the Jets, but liked some things this week. Diante Lee explains defensive theory in a really interesting, sometimes wonky way, but I always learn a lot when he breaks stuff down even when it’s boring.   Mays is more focused on the passing game. 18:00 minute mark to the 28-ish mark. Good stuff. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000582207425

And your verdict is…..Zach sucks. 

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3 hours ago, AlexVanDyke said:

While I get not everyone is “sold “on Wilson, you have to realize he just turned 23 and only has like 12 NFL starts total.  He missed all of pre season and 3 games and won his first two games. Not only has he made progress ..::he has made immense progress.  And he has every bit of talent you want so his ceiling his high.  I’m really puzzled that people still think this after watching him last year into this year.  

Say what you want about his flaws, his ‘personal life’, his family background, Zach has that IT factor and is just a young puppy 🐶 He’s starting to grow and the game is slowing down for him. Remember he didn’t flash right away at BYU. He’s still an apprentice at the QB position. Mahomes, Rodgers…many of these QB’s sat for a year or more. Kid is gonna be slamming in a couple years. 

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On 10/10/2022 at 4:52 PM, jetstream23 said:

Quite honestly, the rushing scheme and its implementation are the things that will take the longest to come to fruition but have the biggest payoff for this offense.  I posted a long article from SI on it last year.  The Wide/Outside Zone Blocking Scheme that comes from Mike Shanahan and those dominant Broncos rushing teams of the late 90's and early 2000's, is a ****ing thing of beauty!  But it takes time.  It's about the offensive linemen, not the running backs.  That's why Denver was able to plug and play guys at RB for almost a decade and never miss a beat.  Anyone playing fantasy football back then knows that at a certain point you just drafted whoever the Denver RB was and didn't care about big name guys from other teams.

It's actually amazing that with all the turnover and changes the Jets have had on the OL they have been able to rush the ball moderately well.  It's a credit to both the coaching and the players who are absorbing the scheme and executing it.  This thing will really open up if and when the Jets can stabilize the OL group, stop having to move guys around due to injury, and let them play together for 5 or 6 weeks.

The system is really about the footwork with the OL.  The analogy I've heard is that it becomes like a well-choreographed ballet where the linemen are all in sync, the timing is precise, their feet are landing in a certain cadence and rhythm.  At that point the job of the RB is simply to go where the play is designed and maybe make one decision or one cut.  And, if you have a guy like Breece who can not only make the first decision/cut but also break a tackle or two at the 2nd or 3rd level then that's how a 5 yard rushes turn into a 20s.

The Gold Standard….34 Minutes In.  If the Jets get an OL that works together half as well a Green Bay, with Hall, they’ll still be dangerous on the ground, which they haven’t been for a very long time.

 

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On 10/10/2022 at 7:43 PM, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Best thing I saw:

 

not for nothing but tyreek also tripped up williams and kept him out of the end zone.  hill is quite a player.  and he really did the jets a favor.  would they have been able to draft sauce, wilson, johnson, and hall in the same draft if they traded for him?  not likely.

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On 10/10/2022 at 7:37 PM, THE BARON said:

Best thing I saw were the run blocking schemes.  Not taking anything away from BH, but the line and the skill guys were well directed.  I have not seen blocking that slick since Dan Henning was with the Jets.  For those that have been down on LaFleur, I think he may be the best coach on the payroll. 

Also, not time to get too excited about how good the Jets are.  They got a gift of luck vs Cleveland, the Steelers may be the worst team in the league and in their win and yesterday, they played a team without a QB.  They are probably still reeling over TT's condition.

GB will be an important game.  If the Jets are competitive, it actually will be time to figure the Jets as a contender.

My feeling was the Jets could win up to 10 games if they got good QB play and would not win more than 4 if the QB play was not there.

Let's see how Wilson does at GB. Quite a test, I'd say.  Playing in that stadium vs. one of the best QB's in the league. 

I'm still not sold on Wilson as a "franchise" QB.  but if he makes a good account of himself in that environment, I'll have to concede.  

Who is TT? 

I mean you wrote a pretty long post, couldn't  you write out a name?

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On 10/10/2022 at 7:52 PM, jetstream23 said:

Quite honestly, the rushing scheme and its implementation are the things that will take the longest to come to fruition but have the biggest payoff for this offense.  I posted a long article from SI on it last year.  The Wide/Outside Zone Blocking Scheme that comes from Mike Shanahan and those dominant Broncos rushing teams of the late 90's and early 2000's, is a ****ing thing of beauty!  But it takes time.  It's about the offensive linemen, not the running backs.  That's why Denver was able to plug and play guys at RB for almost a decade and never miss a beat.  Anyone playing fantasy football back then knows that at a certain point you just drafted whoever the Denver RB was and didn't care about big name guys from other teams.

It's actually amazing that with all the turnover and changes the Jets have had on the OL they have been able to rush the ball moderately well.  It's a credit to both the coaching and the players who are absorbing the scheme and executing it.  This thing will really open up if and when the Jets can stabilize the OL group, stop having to move guys around due to injury, and let them play together for 5 or 6 weeks.

The system is really about the footwork with the OL.  The analogy I've heard is that it becomes like a well-choreographed ballet where the linemen are all in sync, the timing is precise, their feet are landing in a certain cadence and rhythm.  At that point the job of the RB is simply to go where the play is designed and maybe make one decision or one cut.  And, if you have a guy like Breece who can not only make the first decision/cut but also break a tackle or two at the 2nd or 3rd level then that's how a 5 yard rushes turn into a 20s.

Honestly , I don't  really agree with this assessment of Denver or the RG on the Jets. Denver did run a zone blocking scheme where the OL is responsible for an area but I believe the Jets are running a hybrid of it. Just look at AVT. He is moving people laterally a long distance. I think Denver did that by passing the rusher off to another lineman. Also, Denver may have changed backs a lot but they had some damn good RB's as well. As far as what the Jets did against Miami, I saw Hall take some really small holes and bust big runs by breaking multiple tackles. I don't  believe Carter would have had the same result. 

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On 10/10/2022 at 7:37 PM, THE BARON said:

Best thing I saw were the run blocking schemes.  Not taking anything away from BH, but the line and the skill guys were well directed.  I have not seen blocking that slick since Dan Henning was with the Jets.  For those that have been down on LaFleur, I think he may be the best coach on the payroll. 

Also, not time to get too excited about how good the Jets are.  They got a gift of luck vs Cleveland, the Steelers may be the worst team in the league and in their win and yesterday, they played a team without a QB.  They are probably still reeling over TT's condition.

GB will be an important game.  If the Jets are competitive, it actually will be time to figure the Jets as a contender.

My feeling was the Jets could win up to 10 games if they got good QB play and would not win more than 4 if the QB play was not there.

Let's see how Wilson does at GB. Quite a test, I'd say.  Playing in that stadium vs. one of the best QB's in the league. 

I'm still not sold on Wilson as a "franchise" QB.  but if he makes a good account of himself in that environment, I'll have to concede.  

Green Bay just lost to the NY Giants.  The Giants are where we were 2 years ago in their rebuild.  They have a terrible roster.   The reality is the early schedule with Green Bay and Denver looks like a walk in the park.   These next two games are very winnable games.  The Jets don't have to be great they just have to be solid and play with good effort for 60 minutes.

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Green Bay just lost to the NY Giants.  The Giants are where we were 2 years ago in their rebuild.  They have a terrible roster.   The reality is the early schedule with Green Bay and Denver looks like a walk in the park.   These next two games are very winnable games.  The Jets don't have to be great they just have to be solid and play with good effort for 60 minutes.

Again.  The Jets wins were against questionable teams. We'll see what we have and what we don't

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