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Davante Adams pushed a cameraman down after the game.

Hal N of Provo

By Hal N of Provo
in NY Jets Forum

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OCCH23

OCCH23

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Are you actually laughing out loud because I was mistaken in my definition of assault vs battery? States have different legal definitions of assault and battery. Some states define assault as the threat of violence. Other states define battery as causing physical harm. Not sure if laughing out loud is warranted, but I hope that you got some good cackles. 

I was attempting to have a rational conversation, but you decided to go Cathy Newman on me. 

That isn't what I was doing.  Why do you think you can tell me what I was doing?

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JustInFudge
JustInFudge

He should have pushed Josh McDaniels over for being a total and utter ******* moron.

Spoot-Face
Spoot-Face

@Raideraholic

The Crusher
The Crusher

That’s fair. Just one those emotional things. Respect him for owning up to it. 

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, OCCH23 said:

This honestly confuses me (as you're not the only one to say it).

So is the act what you believe he should be punished for, or his response to the act?  Is he being charged with a crime because he pushed someone, or because he didn't give a good enough apology for pushing someone?

I have no doubt this sounds like a sarcastic post, but I'm truly asking -- what did Adams do that "deserves" law enforcement getting involved?

He's being charged for the act.  Sometimes, if you do something humane immediately after making a mistake, it takes the edge off of a situation, and a more collegial outcome can be obtained.  Perhaps the cameraman in that moment, has some empathy and doesn't press charges.  But, having him walk away, doesn't offer that moment of immediate repair.

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OCCH23

OCCH23

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8 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

He's being charged for the act.  Sometimes, if you do something humane immediately after making a mistake, it takes the edge off of a situation, and a more collegial outcome can be obtained.  Perhaps the cameraman in that moment, has some empathy and doesn't press charges.  But, having him walk away, doesn't offer that moment of immediate repair.

OK so you're agreeing that pushing someone doesn't need to equate with misdemeanor assault, it's more just a way for the cameraman to show how offended he was that there was no immediate apology? 

That's where we agree to disagree.  While I understand the cameraman has the "right" to press charges, I don't think that's the next rational step in the process, and therefore feel the cameraman is showing even less "humanity" than Adams did when he shoved him.

(Disclaimer -- if the cameraman truly is hurt then I agree more extreme measures may be called for . . .)  

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THE BARON

THE BARON

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On 10/11/2022 at 3:14 PM, Beerfish said:

Adams to me has never come across as a jerk.  He made a mistake and apologized.  The guy he shoved should accept the apology and be a bigger man.

He should be fined by the league and the guy who got pushed should accept it and move on.

No... Im sorry.  No way.  He should have sent the guy flowers after the game ! 

Obviously a very low class move by Adams but now way did that fall cause actionable injury.  It should draw a suspension and a fine and no payday to the cream puff. Walk it off, son

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freestater

freestater

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13 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

While I understand the cameraman has the "right" to press charges, I don't think that's the next rational step in the process, and therefore feel the cameraman is showing even less "humanity" than Adams did when he shoved him.

Ridiculous. If the cameraman presses charges, he's perfectly entitled to. There's no onus upon him to show more "humanity" than what he was shown by letting his assailant walk away scot free. Don't want charges pressed against you? Don't walk around violating others' rights.

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neckdemon

neckdemon

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Posted
3 hours ago, bitonti said:

The players are part of a union the NFLPA which means they collectively bargained as a group and signed away their right to charge each other with assault. Because make no mistake every hit on the field is an assault charge IRL. 

the media never signed such a document. It's not like a cameraman "not paying attention" and it wasn't by accident. Adams didn't help this guy up like it was an accident he saw him, shoved him and walked over him like he did it on purpose

the people who are like "Damn we've gotten soft here" are pining for a day that never existed.

There was never a time when a player shoving a cameraman to the ground on purpose was cool. Accidents happen this wasn't an accident. Adams was out of line and there's no version of society where what he did was justified. 

A boxer in 1910 going out to the crowd and punching a reporter would face similar punishment 

tell me what the reaction would be if adams shoved a ref who walked in front of him like this

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neckdemon

neckdemon

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Posted
22 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

OK so you're agreeing that pushing someone doesn't need to equate with misdemeanor assault, it's more just a way for the cameraman to show how offended he was that there was no immediate apology? 

That's where we agree to disagree.  While I understand the cameraman has the "right" to press charges, I don't think that's the next rational step in the process, and therefore feel the cameraman is showing even less "humanity" than Adams did when he shoved him.

(Disclaimer -- if the cameraman truly is hurt then I agree more extreme measures may be called for . . .)  

apparently the camerman had a possible concussion. 

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THE BARON

THE BARON

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Biggs said:

Civilized society wouldn’t allow football period.  You don’t walk in a crowd with you head down leading with a camera and rack.  
Adams was wrong.   He knows it.  He apologized immediately.  Civilized society doesn’t persecute people for a minor transgression that they apologized for.  Civilized society and every major religion is based on transgression and the ability to recognize it and do better. 

Roman Republic and Empire was by all scholarly accounts, a "civilizing" body.  And, they had blood sport, slavery and wars of aggression. Context is important.  Not just the time period, but the venue as well.

Say you and I are at the grocery store.  There are lots of people there and plenty of security cameras.  I am on line wanting to pay for the last cantaloupe in the store.  You WANT that cantaloupe too.  With all the people watching and the security cameras getting a great view of it all... You get psyched.  You prepare to charge at me with such force that you run through me.  You explode into action.  You collide with me and dislodge the cantaloupe.  While I'm on the floor after having my $hit knocked loose, you scoop up the cantaloupe and triumphantly run out of the store to the parking lot with the proceeds.

So... We have an assault and a theft in front of a crowd and the security cameras.  The people look on and go OMG !!! The security cam footage goes to law enforcement and then the court tech.

OK... 

We are on opposing NFL teams.  Your team is the home team and you are a LB.. I'm the ball carrier on the offense.  It is the 4th quarter with 30 seconds left.  My team has the ball. We are ahead by 3 points.  We have 3rd and goal at the 1.  The QB hands the ball off to me.  You knock my $hit loose in the backfield before I can cross the goal line.  The ball comes out.  You scoop it up and run all 99 yards the other way and score a TD.  

The crowd goes YAY !!!!  They love it.  The camera footage goes to the network and you watch yourself on the highlights.

Same actions, different forum.  

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OCCH23

OCCH23

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, freestater said:

Ridiculous. If the cameraman presses charges, he's perfectly entitled to. There's no onus upon him to show more "humanity" than what he was shown by letting his assailant walk away scot free. Don't want charges pressed against you? Don't walk around violating others' rights.

Sorry -- I thought I was entitled to my opinion.  Can I sue you for attacking me in such a hostile and unwarranted manner?  (I could really use the money . . .)

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OCCH23

OCCH23

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

shoved someone to the ground causing the guy to get hurt. is that not enough?

I guess I grew up in a different world.

Whole lot of shoving, not much police action.

(Again, if he's hurt that's a different story, but I don't see many people here making that distinction . . .)

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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39 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

OK so you're agreeing that pushing someone doesn't need to equate with misdemeanor assault, it's more just a way for the cameraman to show how offended he was that there was no immediate apology? 

That's where we agree to disagree.  While I understand the cameraman has the "right" to press charges, I don't think that's the next rational step in the process, and therefore feel the cameraman is showing even less "humanity" than Adams did when he shoved him.

(Disclaimer -- if the cameraman truly is hurt then I agree more extreme measures may be called for . . .)  

Not at all.  I look at it the other way.  You may be able to lessen the blow of a mistake with decency.  Do I know what the cameraman would do regardless, no?  But screwing up, and immediately trying to make it right certainly increases the odds of a more amicable ending.  That doesn't mean that helping him up would get that outcome, but it would certainly make it more likely.

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freestater

freestater

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Posted
2 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Not at all.  I look at it the other way.  You may be able to lessen the blow of a mistake with decency.  Do I know what the cameraman would do regardless, no?  But screwing up, and immediately trying to make it right certainly increases the odds of a more amicable ending.  That doesn't mean that helping him up would get that outcome, but it would certainly make it more likely.

But what if there's a cantaloupe involved? 

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neckdemon

neckdemon

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

I guess I grew up in a different world.

Whole lot of shoving, not much police action.

(Again, if he's hurt that's a different story, but I don't see many people here making that distinction . . .)

different if 2 people get to fighting. you fight it out and it should be over at that. the guy didn't even see it coming and was holding a boom and doing a job. he shouldn't be subjected to that. **** davante adams. i hope he has to pay the guy a lot of money

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OCCH23

OCCH23

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23 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Not at all.  I look at it the other way.  You may be able to lessen the blow of a mistake with decency.  Do I know what the cameraman would do regardless, no?  But screwing up, and immediately trying to make it right certainly increases the odds of a more amicable ending.  That doesn't mean that helping him up would get that outcome, but it would certainly make it more likely.

I completely understand what you're saying.  It just bothers me that "shoving someone to the ground" and "misdemeanor assault" have become synonymous, but that's the world we live in . . .

 

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OCCH23

OCCH23

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21 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

different if 2 people get to fighting. you fight it out and it should be over at that. the guy didn't even see it coming and was holding a boom and doing a job. he shouldn't be subjected to that. **** davante adams. i hope he has to pay the guy a lot of money

"Paying a lot of money" and "being convicted of a crime" are two different outcomes to me, but I guess the point is moot . . .

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neckdemon

neckdemon

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Posted
35 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

I completely understand what you're saying.  It just bothers me that "shoving someone to the ground" and "misdemeanor assault" have become synonymous, but that's the world we live in . . .

 

what should it be called? misdemeanor assault is the lowest form of assault you can be charged with

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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Posted
55 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

I completely understand what you're saying.  It just bothers me that "shoving someone to the ground" and "misdemeanor assault" have become synonymous, but that's the world we live in . . .

 

Ok, ball's in your court... What should "shoving someone to the ground" be called?

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OCCH23

OCCH23

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Ok, ball's in your court... What should "shoving someone to the ground" be called?

Legally?

NOTHING.

That's my point.  It's ridiculous (IMO) that this has become a legal issue (WAY before anyone talked about him potentially having a concussion).  The league should fine/suspend him, and he should offer some kind of recompense to show he's truly sorry.  But have to report to a judge for pushing someone?  With no prior intent or malice?  And no history (to my knowledge) to imply he's a danger to society?  It's ridiculous and sad, and the fact that you guys see no problem with it makes it that much sadder.

Meanwhile, we have criminals walking the streets of NYC because "there's already too much of a strain on the court system)?

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