How did Geno become good?

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

The stat I care about is 2-0.

FYI - any analytics model has its assumptions, strengths, and flaws - like points scored when other team goes into prevent - how good their OL and running game are, etc. While I am happy that Geno has appeared to grow up and is having a good season; i just find it interesting that when Zach and/or Joe throw well it is garbage time even if they win; when someone else throws well in a loss they have made it. I also find it interesting that some fans will call a jet player a bust before his plays a down, but we are good waiting 10 years for Geno.

It's fine if you only care about wins and losses, but, that doesn't leave a lot of room to understand what's happening and formulate expectations and thoughts about what will happen next.  For instance, you would think, if 2-0 was what was really important, that we wouldn't be 7 point underdogs, which is the 3rd highest of the weekend, to a team that is 1-1 over that same time span.

Are FO's methodologies perfect?  Of course not.  There's no such thing.  Do they give a deeper understanding of what's happening on the field then "2-0" or a box score.  100%.

And, for the record, I don't recall one post stating we should have waited 10 years on Geno.  The closest thing was some people saying that he should have been given a shot instead of Fitz Year 2.  The only people talking about 10 years are the ones saying, "what did you want, for us to wait 10 years?"

None of that changes that Geno Smith is playing QB at a level that we haven't seen a Jets QB play at in... I don't even know.

[talisaynon]

Well i still remember tailgaiting watching the game on a TV at the metlife parking lot drunk and sobbing after geno turned over the ball 3 times and vick another 3 times against the bills. Terrible tiime. Glad he turned ii around.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

Geno never should have started day 1. But Rex had to he a moron and put Sanchez in during a preseason game late for some reason and the rest is history.

 

[SoFlaJets]

Before the Woody Johnson Era of Jets football there used to be a set way to bring young quarterbacks along. It used to be felt that the best way to bring a player along was to let them sit for 3-5 years behind a veteran who was willing to help mentor the kid. This took an older QB with an eye towards a possible future coaching position as a payment for being a "team guy" Off the top of my head a few guys come to mind Jim Harbaugh, Steve Spurrier, Jason Garret, Frank Reich, Gary Kubiak, and Tom Flores to name a few.

Then in 2002 the Texans drafted David Carr and immediately anointed him the starter and threw him to the proverbial wolves. Instead of letting him learn the position behind a wily, and unselfish vet, the Texans essentially ruined the kids' career by breaking a long-standing way of doing things. Carr was sacked 76 times his rookie year and it was a lesson that the Johnsons seemed to be following  of how NOT to do things.

When the NFL awarded the team to Johnson & Johnson instead of the Dolans, the Jets had that "wily, and unselfish vet" in Vinny Testaverde as the starter, while with one of his four 1st round picks his initial year of ownership they chose Chad Pennington, who in what would become typical Jets luck as it pertains to their QBs Chad would stupidly hurt his shoulder by challenging Vinny in a arm strength throwing contest, from which he never did recover or was ever the same and in his 1st pre-season game Chad got crunched by a Raider defensive player.

Anyway, Geno Smith was a perfect example of the type of player who would benefit from doing it the "old way" and letting him learn by watching because, he was not a very bright player. But, Geno showed us flashes. His rookie season he played a great game and beat the Falcons 3 TDs  0 Int 147 QBR and then he would also put up some real stinkers against our division rivals against the Pats (27.6 QBR 3 Ints) , Bills (10.1 QBR 3 Ints), and Fins (8.3 QBR). I could go on like the next year when he had a 0.0 QBR and threw 3 picks in the 1st half  before being replaced by Vick. Geno is the primary example of a guy who needed time behind a mentor. 

[baamf]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

His senior year at WVU was insanely good.  The talent was there.  Some guys just need to get humbled before they can focus on working on their craft and not just expect the talent to carry them.

Nothing more humbling than getting your jaw broken I guess.

Good for Geno.  It's always fun to see a guy do what he's doing as long as he's not a bad guy.  I think Geno's matured a lot so I'm happy for him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thegrio.com/2022/01/12/geno-smith-dui/amp/

 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, baamf said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thegrio.com/2022/01/12/geno-smith-dui/amp/

 

And this is why we need the facepalm emoji back.

I knew it was too good to be true.

[sciond]

Growing up and accepting coaching

then having the right coach and system

good for him

[tfine]

I think Rex is a good coach when it came to X’s and O’s but he had no clue how to develop and get the most out of young players. Seeing Geno thrive just reinforces that.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Because he’s not good 

When do you have something to nice say? 

[SuicidalSince98]

46 minutes ago, Paradis said:

When do you have something to nice say? 

Zach Wilson is good, happy? 

[y2k8]

The reasons Geno did not have success sooner are the same reasons he wasn't drafted early in the first round. 

Geno's emotional IQ finally matched up with his age. He always had the talent to be an NFL starter. 

[johnnysd]

We will see what happens but Geno has not been good this season he is arguably playing the best in the NFL at QB with a historic completion percentage. And he is throwing down the field.

As I have mentioned before his teammates LOVE Geno and Carroll in his interviews on MTC has come extremely close to saying that he thinks Geno is better than Russell. Carroll is the ultimate rah rah guy but still. And he has done it over 5 games not just a one off like he had before with the Jets or Mike White last season.

[bitonti]

it's also notable that Geno's transformation occured under Pete Carroll a Jets coach long since fired for being too soft on the players 

I know I'm showing my age but the discipline, football is war crowd HATED Pete Carroll. 

it takes time for rookie head coaches to become real head coaches just like takes time for rookie QBs to become real QBs 

the Jets as a franchise have this tendency to chew through first timers over and over, never really seeing what can happen when you let a person build a program in their image

i'm not the biggest Robert Saleh fan but he deserves that chance 

[bostonmajet]

3 hours ago, ZachEY said:

It's fine if you only care about wins and losses, but, that doesn't leave a lot of room to understand what's happening and formulate expectations and thoughts about what will happen next.  For instance, you would think, if 2-0 was what was really important, that we wouldn't be 7 point underdogs, which is the 3rd highest of the weekend, to a team that is 1-1 over that same time span.

Are FO's methodologies perfect?  Of course not.  There's no such thing.  Do they give a deeper understanding of what's happening on the field then "2-0" or a box score.  100%.

And, for the record, I don't recall one post stating we should have waited 10 years on Geno.  The closest thing was some people saying that he should have been given a shot instead of Fitz Year 2.  The only people talking about 10 years are the ones saying, "what did you want, for us to wait 10 years?"

None of that changes that Geno Smith is playing QB at a level that we haven't seen a Jets QB play at in... I don't even know.

my point about wins and losses is that sometimes the best thing a QB can do to win the game is to not sling it around, but to manage the game with short passes and the running game. This won't have a QB show up on any FF stats or a like. I also pointed out that here, when ZW's and JF's were slinging it around when the Jets were down by 2 scores the site was all about how these stats shouldn't be allowed as they are garbage time stats (in 2 games that we actually won), but many of these same posters are okay talking about Geno's stats much of which would have occurred during what many fans call garbage time.

I am happy for Geno, but I don't really care about ZW's stats as long as he is progressing especially during wins. Dan Marino could sling it, but never won the big game. Sometimes a QB with a limited arm can propel their team deep into the playoffs. While I agree Geno looks good, I don't think great stats necessarily means great play.

[Jetsfan80]

19 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Hi douchebag you’re right, it was 4 weeks. Where he led the NFL in passing yards, was completing 68% of his passes, and had 10 total TDs to 3 picks. 

You are a child.  Someone disagrees with your take and you either:  A) Neg rep them and/or B ) Insult them for no reason.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

When do you have something to nice say? 

Despite his username I'm pretty sure he's 13.  

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Some stats for those who are interested. So far thru 5 games….

- 75% completion percentage (1st) 

- Passer rating of 113.1 (1st)

- QBR of 74.8 (4th)

- 9 td passes (7th) and only 2 ints

- 1305 passing yards 260 per game (12th in the league)

 

I have to say that’s very impressive. I know it’s only 5 games but he has been playing lights out. Good for him

[rex-n-effect]

6 hours ago, ZachEY said:

It's fine if you only care about wins and losses, but, that doesn't leave a lot of room to understand what's happening and formulate expectations and thoughts about what will happen next.  For instance, you would think, if 2-0 was what was really important, that we wouldn't be 7 point underdogs, which is the 3rd highest of the weekend, to a team that is 1-1 over that same time span.

It's not unreasonable to wonder why all those great stats don't translate into wins. Their two wins come against two of the worst teams in the league. A couple different decisions in week one and they might have just one win. 

Geno's stats look great and undoubtedly he's made some impressive throws this season. When you look at the drives rather than just the stats it becomes clear what's going on. Geno is still playing college ball and Carroll is absolutely making the most of it. Geno makes a lot of long bombs but when the long pass isn't there he's either checking down or taking a huge sack. Any defense with a halfway decent pass rush is a problem. The same pass rush contains their run game, so they have to rely on Geno chucking up on the long ball. This is like the Tebow Broncos with a worse OL and defense but Geno isn't as great on the ground. 

I'm glad he's making the most of the opportunity, but until those stats become wins Seattle still has a QB problem.

[jNYC1]

If a Jets QB was playing as well as Geno, no one would be talking about QB problem.  We would all be talking about the other issues with the team.  

Same with Seattle.  The team has issues… notably on the defensive side of the ball.  We fleeced Seattle with the Jamal trade and indirectly with the DJ Reed signing (paying Jamal limited their ability to retain a young talent)

I don’t think Geno is the best QB in the league, but over the last 9 games he’s done some really good things to show he can consistently play QB better than 18 to 20 QBs in the league.  If he gets better that would be a bonus for Seattle.

[UntouchableCrew]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:46 PM, maury77 said:

Honestly, this is the first opportunity he's had as the unquestioned starter since the IK punch. Maybe he just needed a real opportunity and a coaching staff that believed in him. 

I’ve always thought there was an alternate universe where he had a breakout year in 2015 with Marshall and Decker in 2015 not dissimilar to the season Fitzpatrick had.

Geno was also bad but was surrounded by dreadful talent during most of his Jets run which fans tend to write off relative to say, Mark Sanchez.

[Dwight Englewood]

20 hours ago, tfine said:

I think Rex is a good coach when it came to X’s and O’s but he had no clue how to develop and get the most out of young players. Seeing Geno thrive just reinforces that.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

That’s weird.  I remember geno not being good from 2015 through 4 weeks ago

[Dwight Englewood]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I’ve always thought there was an alternate universe where he had a breakout year in 2015 with Marshall and Decker in 2015 not dissimilar to the season Fitzpatrick had.

Geno was also bad but was surrounded by dreadful talent during most of his Jets run which fans tend to write off relative to say, Mark Sanchez.

Maybe geno has a decent year in 2015 with those 2 receivers.  Fitz milked throwing 50/50 balls to those 2 for a big contract and actually was taken seriously for a brief period of time 

[Dwight Englewood]

18 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Some stats for those who are interested. So far thru 5 games….

- 75% completion percentage (1st) 

- Passer rating of 113.1 (1st)

- QBR of 74.8 (4th)

- 9 td passes (7th) and only 2 ints

- 1305 passing yards 260 per game (12th in the league)

 

I have to say that’s very impressive. I know it’s only 5 games but he has been playing lights out. Good for him

Excellent coaching and excellent weapons

 

Not rocket science 

 

[rex-n-effect]

4 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Geno was also bad but was surrounded by dreadful talent during most of his Jets run which fans tend to write off relative to say, Mark Sanchez.

Neither one had great talent outside of Sanchez's first couple years. You can answer the question about their skills by looking at what happened to each after they left. Sanchez looked worse with every team until no team wanted him. Geno didn't look much better until Seattle but has had a longer career and looks better now than at any point in the past. Like Sanchez, Geno would have looked better in NY surrounded by better talent but I don't believe there is an alternate universe where Geno was a couple good receivers away from a good year in 2015. 

[jgb]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:22 PM, Larz said:

Maturity. He’s still a good athlete and always threw a pretty spiral, just needed to grow up 

He has not. Google his New Year’s Eve arrest where he threatened to fight the police and had to be shacked to a hospital bed for a blood draw. League punishment still pending.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

The notion that a QB cannot get better at the mental part of the game is completely idiotic. It doenst mean every QB will, but the notion that time and experience does not help is as dumb of a take as you will see anywhere on this board, and that is saying a lot.

The issue is in todays NFL, with the rookie contracts, and the salary cap, you have to determine if they can do it by year 3. Most of these high draft pick (first 2 round) guys have the physical ability to play the position. Coaching, players around them matter a lot. Another idiotic take around here is that coaching and weapinzzzzzz don't matter at all. Look at Baker Mayfield in Carolina, did he suddenly forget how to play QB?

 

 

[Dwight Englewood]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

He has not. Google his New Year’s Eve arrest where he threatened to fight the police and had to be shacked to a hospital bed for a blood draw. League punishment still pending.

Hey at least he didn’t kill anyone. Cough cough Ruggs cough cough

[Jetsfan80]

[jNYC1]

Please remember he WON the starting role with the Giants over Eli back in 2016 or 2017

Fan and org backlash against the decision led to him not getting that opportunity and the firing of the coach.

The sad part is he played reasonably well in his limited action with the Giants.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, jNYC1 said:

Please remember he WON the starting role with the Giants over Eli back in 2016 or 2017

Fan and org backlash against the decision led to him not getting that opportunity and the firing of the coach.

The sad part is he played reasonably well in his limited action with the Giants.

Huh?  He only started 1 game for the Giants.

[Embrace the Suck]

It's been something like a decade. I'd hope that over time he'd get better.

[Smashmouth]

On 10/12/2022 at 6:26 PM, Facts said:

Ive been racking my brain trying to figure this out

He went from green puke to seattle elite.

WTF happened?

 

Very rarely in the NFL some players/QB's just get it late a light goes on Jim Plunkett comes to mind Rich Gannon was ordinary until he went to the Raiders so they had 2 QB's do it. There are others just can't think of them Maybe Terry Bradshaw who was Terrible in the beginning of his career then won 4 SB's. Geno has talent maybe he just started to take the game more seriously and took the film room more seriously and improved because of it.

[jNYC1]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Huh?  He only started 1 game for the Giants.

He "won" the starting job over Eli during the season.  IE the coaching staff wanted Geno to be the starter, and benched Eli.  (I realize the way I phrased it made like he won the job in the preseason.)

Long story short there was such a backlash that he made only 1 start (and only saw action in two games).  Coach was fired and Eli reinstated.  84.5 QBR in very limited action.

[Smashmouth]

On 10/15/2022 at 8:03 AM, Flea Flicking Frank said:

The notion that a QB cannot get better at the mental part of the game is completely idiotic. It doenst mean every QB will, but the notion that time and experience does not help is as dumb of a take as you will see anywhere on this board, and that is saying a lot.

The issue is in todays NFL, with the rookie contracts, and the salary cap, you have to determine if they can do it by year 3. Most of these high draft pick (first 2 round) guys have the physical ability to play the position. Coaching, players around them matter a lot. Another idiotic take around here is that coaching and weapinzzzzzz don't matter at all. Look at Baker Mayfield in Carolina, did he suddenly forget how to play QB?

 

 

Its not getting better at the mental part of the game its how fast can they process information which is a mental thing. They know what to  do, they all do, but pressure makes it extremely hard and some can't over come that no matter how long they play

[jNYC1]

I hope Geno knocks of the Giants - I don't like the fact that the Giants have a better record than the Jets at the moment.