Zach is 3-0 ...

[Dunnie]

32 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

We went 1-of-11 on third downs.

"Really nice job".

Totally agree ...Lafleur need to figure this sh*t out quick.

[slats]

10 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Let’s not get into ceilings and floors… see Darnold, Sam.

Yeah, especially when Mayfield is falling right thru Sam’s floor in Carolina, lol. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.  Mark Sanchez started his career 3-0 but wasn't a good QB.  (And, yes, I know this is ZW's 2nd season)

[clayton163v]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:34 PM, Green Ghost said:

I get it, we’re all happy after another big win (on the road no less) but…

You’re giving Zach way too much credit. What you saw yesterday was a team trying to keep their QB from losing the game, not a QB “managing” one.

Big props to the Defense, the OL and the RBs. They killed it yesterday.

Yes, I am a homer.  But I am not part of that tribe.  I have been critical of Zach for poor technique - which I consider to be inexcusable for an athlete at his level.  I too fail to see the polish and consistency that you expect in your starter.  But he can throw the ball very accurately.  He is still a tick behind in his recognition on deep outs and when he fails to set his feet the ball is a duck.   If he keeps running the ball across the line of scrimmage, he will have a short career.  He needs to watch Mahomes.  Mahomes seldom runs the ball.  It is not that Zach cannot run, it is he cannot avoid getting squared up by professionals.  He lacks the necessary short area quickness.  He gets popped every time.   I wonder how the coaches fail to see this . . .   

Yet Zach is part of the Jets first three-game win streak since 2019.  He beat the Packers at home for the first time since 2020.   As I wrote, "he can throw the ball very accurately."  He can.  With better technique he can be that guy.  I firmly believe ball handling and footwork can be taught.  That practice produces results with things like play action fakes.  It is his second year on the Jets.  We have two more coming after this one.  I - for one - doubt that the Jets will be drafting high enough to consider a replacement for some time.  From all appearances the young defense is coming together.  That means 500 football as a floor for a few years.  Whoa is us (tongue in cheek).

I have made peace with Zach Wilson the Jet.  Did not want him.   Thought it idiotic to take the BYU covid-one-year wonder with the #2 pick.  Called it "collective madness".  He  will start for several more years.  I try to focus on what he does well.  And he is the man with the golden gun.   The team is responding.    

As for the defense, I wrote:

"I was less into the stats than I was the ebb and flow of the game.  To look at the stats, you would think that the Jets defense played an OK game.  We beat the living sh*t out of them.  On defense, we played a fabulous game.    Not reflected in the stats, but we did. "

It was a street fight.  Remarkably, that is what the coach has been preaching. 

[jgb]

So far, he has done what is needed. Soon, more will be required.

 

[Sammybighead]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

So far, he has done what is needed. Soon, more will be required.

 

Right now, what is required is for him to not lose games. You're absolutely right though, he (and the passing game together) will need to show much more in the future for us to be a contender. I'm content with watching him develop this year which is what I expected. I'm not expecting him to morph into Josh Allen this week. 

[Green Ghost]

I’m not seeing this “progress” a lot of you are. What I am seeing is a QB with a good arm, and  below average pocket awareness. I see a CS doing everything they can to keep from putting him in a position to carry the team.
Whether that’s part of a plan to bring him along slowly, or having little confidence in him, I don’t know. I’m hoping it’s the former.

The team is winning right now, and for now I’m just going to enjoy that, and not worry about Zach Wilson.

 

[SuicidalSince98]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

I’m not seeing this “progress” a lot of you are. What I am seeing is a QB with a good arm, and  below average pocket awareness. I see a CS doing everything they can to keep from putting him in a position to carry the team.
Whether that’s part of a plan to bring him along slowly, or having little confidence in him, I don’t know. I’m hoping it’s the former.

The team is winning right now, and for now I’m just going to enjoy that, and not worry about Zach Wilson.

 

Of course you’re not 

which situations Sunday showed you that the CS decided to hide wilson? Which scenarios should we have passed but decided to run instead? In fact, I saw the opposite, we threw twice on 3rd and short when we should have ran it.

The offense couldn’t get anything going in the first half so we didn’t pass a lot, because we didn’t have a lot of plays… 

 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Right now, what is required is for him to not lose games. You're absolutely right though, he (and the passing game together) will need to show much more in the future for us to be a contender. I'm content with watching him develop this year which is what I expected. I'm not expecting him to morph into Josh Allen this week. 

I'm happy with what we have seen so far. My expectations were bedrock-low. I feared greatly he was utterly incompetent. He can manage games without giving the ball away. That is a very big step. But it will not be enough to make him a FQB. Nevertheless, a step is a step -- hopeful to see more but will not be shy with criticism if after several more games he has not.

[SuicidalSince98]

I don’t have the numbers, but I know that last year wilson played by far the hardest schedule of any QB in the NFL in terms of pass defense faced. This year can’t be much better… packers, Broncos, pats, bills basically every top 10 pass D in the NFL. 

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/18/2022 at 6:39 AM, Dunnie said:

of course the entire game is a result of QB play ..not receivers failing to get open ...wonder if they are saying the same thing in Green Bay .... Rogers has an amazing day.

Packer receivers dropped 6 passes.  

[Maxman]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:12 PM, Facts said:

Zach has done something between “jack” and “sh*t”. He is riding on the back of a great defense putting together elite performances.

Attributing that to Zach is horse crap.

The Jets defense has been getting much better. Last week was incredible. Pittsburgh though?

[BornJetsFan1983]

110 yards has to scare you. I don't care how optimistic. The idea that everything is fine because breece is running well and our def played great is not comforting.

He needs to be able to throw tds on this league. Throw for first downs etc. We have seen him do it before. That part of the game needs to appear. You saw what happened in the first half. 

There is going to be a lot of that from Denver if he don't get some schemed open guys to throw to

[Whatever_Man]

The #1 thing I find encouraging about Zach right now is that he is not single-handedly losing games for us. Sanchez had games with 3+ INTS that just made it impossible to win (nightmares from that 2009 Buffalo game where he threw 5 picks). I just want to see more progress with him actually elevating the team.

The first step for a new QB should be: don't single-handedly lose the game for your team

The next step should be: manage the game without being a negative to the team (I think Zach is here through 3 games this year)

hopefully we get here this season: the team is better because you are the one playing quarterback versus someone else.

[southparkcpa]

19 hours ago, jgb said:

So far, he has done what is needed. Soon, more will be required.

 

Seemed last year there were 2-4 plays each game where he threw to the flat, his escape option, and he threw the ground. 3-4 series ending plays that this year, with Carter and Hall we are seeing less of that. He has shown very little "greatness" BUT baby steps are paying dividends. As you so stated, it won't be enough.

1st half Green Bay he looked like Zach 2001.  Scared, Happy feet, little league like. 

 

[SuicidalSince98]

6 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

110 yards has to scare you. I don't care how optimistic. The idea that everything is fine because breece is running well and our def played great is not comforting.

He needs to be able to throw tds on this league. Throw for first downs etc. We have seen him do it before. That part of the game needs to appear. You saw what happened in the first half. 

There is going to be a lot of that from Denver if he don't get some schemed open guys to throw to

Game flow, don’t expect a bit passing day this Sunday either. Denver has the #1 passing D in the NFL 

[Green Ghost]

15 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

The offense couldn’t get anything going in the first half so we didn’t pass a lot, because we didn’t have a lot of plays… 

 

[SuicidalSince98]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

Football, learn it 

[win4ever]

I was listening to something about Aaron Rodgers, that struck me as interesting.  After the game, he mentioned that they need to simplify the offense.  

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/10/17/aaron-rodgers-wants-to-simplify-the-offense-but-matt-lafleur-doesnt-know-what-that-means/

While he says "for everyone", I think that was just PR talk, I'm presuming he meant for the younger guys.  This got me thinking, since both LaFluer's have similar influences (I didn't really do a breakdown of the Packers offense), is Zach facing overcomplication?  Is the system too advanced on a passing scheme basis?  I remember last year, there was a big difference between the systems run by Wilson and Lawrence, where the Jags basically installed a college offense to help Lawrence out.  If the system is complicated, it could mean they QB/WR play should improve as they get more acclimated to the system.  

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Football, learn it 

Don’t worry, I’m writing down every thing you tell me. You’re a very valuable resource.

[SuicidalSince98]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

Don’t worry, I’m writing down every thing you tell me. You’re a very valuable resource.

Lesson 1: baker mayfield is trash 

[Green Ghost]

7 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Seemed last year there were 2-4 plays each game where he threw to the flat, his escape option, and he threw the ground. 3-4 series ending plays that this year, with Carter and Hall we are seeing less of that. He has shown very little "greatness" BUT baby steps are paying dividends. As you so stated, it won't be enough.

1st half Green Bay he looked like Zach 2001.  Scared, Happy feet, little league like. 

 

@SuicidalSince98 it looks like you have another student.

Explain that thing to him where “we didn’t pass in the first half because we weren’t moving the ball…”  ?

[SuicidalSince98]

2 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

@SuicidalSince98 it looks like you have another student.

Explain that thing to him where “we didn’t pass in the first half because we weren’t moving the ball…”  ?

You’re wrong though.
 

Drive 1: GW runs a route in front of sticks 

Drive 2: tip ball 

Drive 3: sack (no one open)

Drive 4: chop block (phantom call) 

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

You’re wrong though.
 

Drive 1: GW runs a route in front of sticks 

Drive 2: tip ball 

Drive 3: sack (no one open)

Drive 4: chop block (phantom call) 

First and second down count, too, you know.

[Green Ghost]

7 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

You’re wrong though.
 

Drive 1: GW runs a route in front of sticks 

Drive 2: tip ball 

Drive 3: sack (no one open)

Drive 4: chop block (phantom call) 

How am I the one who iS wrong? I’m repeating what YOU said…

[SuicidalSince98]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

First and second down count, too, you know.

They weren’t negative pass plays 

[jgb]

Just now, SuicidalSince98 said:

They weren’t pass plays 

Your argument is a perfect circle

[Green Ghost]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Your argument is a perfect circle

In his mind he’s a football savant. 
When I get bored I like to loosen the reins a little bit and let him run.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

In his mind he’s a football savant. 
When I get bored I like to loosen the reins a little at a time and let him run.

[Grandy]

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

I was listening to something about Aaron Rodgers, that struck me as interesting.  After the game, he mentioned that they need to simplify the offense.  

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/10/17/aaron-rodgers-wants-to-simplify-the-offense-but-matt-lafleur-doesnt-know-what-that-means/

While he says "for everyone", I think that was just PR talk, I'm presuming he meant for the younger guys.  This got me thinking, since both LaFluer's have similar influences (I didn't really do a breakdown of the Packers offense), is Zach facing overcomplication?  Is the system too advanced on a passing scheme basis?  I remember last year, there was a big difference between the systems run by Wilson and Lawrence, where the Jags basically installed a college offense to help Lawrence out.  If the system is complicated, it could mean they QB/WR play should improve as they get more acclimated to the system.  

The Shanahan system is notoriously complex. Guys like Rodgers and Ryan put up pretty unremarkable numbers early on in the system and they're established greats. Saw stats that showed they almost doubled their TD's from yr 1 to 2 in that system. So I'm sure their lack of exp in the receiver room is hurting right now. 

Having a really young and raw QB like Wilson master an offense like this is a tall task, but one that can pay off so well in the future. He's coming along, but yes overcomplication has definitely been a factor at points. This system is no joke.