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Offensive Line in Week 8 and Beyond


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Paging anyone who watches the game with an eye closely focused on the O-Line.  Fant is eligible to come off IR for Week 8 (the NE game), and then Mitchell technically will be eligible a couple weeks after that.  How do we foresee the OL depth chart coming together from that point on given the following:  (1) Nate Herbig has (it appears) performed admirably, (2) Fant stunk this year when he was in there, (3) AVT is a big boss man wherever he lines up, and (4) Max Mitchell was pretty good before his injury.

Assuming -- and this is a horrendous assumption when it comes to the Jets' OL -- that everyone comes back healthy in about a month, how do you draw it up?

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23 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Fant is the swing tackle when he comes back and then he can look to get paid elsewhere after the season.

Mitchell was solid early on, but I wouldn’t screw with the current setup, especially with Herbig settling in the last two weeks.

Correct, and Fant and Mitchell can be the backups with the current backups the 2 we grabbed off the street Remmers and the other guy that was from the Texans PS, as well as McDermott all maybe fighting for one 53 man roster spot and the other 2 perhaps going to the practice squad. We need to maintain depth there and perhaps even have one of these guys practicing at G for the 2nd unit since we only have Freeny there and don't want to shuffle around AVT if need not be. Our best chance to keep running our power run O that uses timely passing, or at times when the run is shutdown having Zack have to pass more like in Pitt 4th qtr. is to maintain this Oline the best we can. If it falls apart so does the entire team since the D can only dominate when it is pretty fresh and not on the field all day and the O controlling the game and Time of Possession dictates that.

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If Fant or Max are healthy one of the them takes the RT position and AVT moves back to G. If Herbig is really playing well then you move AVT back to LG. Ideally, Max beats out Fant and becomes our starting RT next year unless Becton can really come back.

Becton has the potential to be a better LT than Brown (although he looked great and like he was having a blast yesterday). Becton, when healthy is better than Max right now. Next year you likely play Brown at LT if he can keep up the energy and Becton at RT with Max backing up Becton. Max also needs to put on another 30 pounds of muscle on. We need another G and AVT takes the opposite side and we desperately need a new young hungry center to anchor the line for the next 10 years.

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17 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

 

RG belongs to AVT.  Does it complicate things with AVT having played well at tackle?   Not if we pay him.  It is time to extend AVT.  What more does he have to prove?  Signed up to a long term deal, we can move him when needed or leave him at RG.  I see his latest heroics as akin to the Lakers playing Magic Johnson at Center when everybody else got hurt during the playoffs (Magic was a point guard).  He scored 40 points in the pivot!  It was wonderful.  The Lakers never did it again.   Let's do that and pay the man too.

 

Can't extend rookies until after their 3rd season.

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1 hour ago, nj meadowlands said:

Paging anyone who watches the game with an eye closely focused on the O-Line.  Fant is eligible to come off IR for Week 8 (the NE game), and then Mitchell technically will be eligible a couple weeks after that.  How do we foresee the OL depth chart coming together from that point on given the following:  (1) Nate Herbig has (it appears) performed admirably, (2) Fant stunk this year when he was in there, (3) AVT is a big boss man wherever he lines up, and (4) Max Mitchell was pretty good before his injury.

Assuming -- and this is a horrendous assumption when it comes to the Jets' OL -- that everyone comes back healthy in about a month, how do you draw it up?

The O-Line Stays As Is barring any injuries... Fant will be the swing as will Mitchell but have Mitchell focus on overall strength conditioning. 

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I doubt the team will fix something that's not broken.  The present 5 (Brown,
Tomlinson, McGovern, Herbig & Vera-Tucker) are just now developing chemistry.
The returning OLinemen (Fant & Mitchell) will be depth pieces in my opinion.
In fact with the development of Mitchell & Herbig and the flexibility of AVT
I don't think Douglas is going to re-sign Fant to an extension

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2 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

If Fant or Max are healthy one of the them takes the RT position and AVT moves back to G. If Herbig is really playing well then you move AVT back to LG. Ideally, Max beats out Fant and becomes our starting RT next year unless Becton can really come back.

Becton has the potential to be a better LT than Brown (although he looked great and like he was having a blast yesterday). Becton, when healthy is better than Max right now. Next year you likely play Brown at LT if he can keep up the energy and Becton at RT with Max backing up Becton. Max also needs to put on another 30 pounds of muscle on. We need another G and AVT takes the opposite side and we desperately need a new young hungry center to anchor the line for the next 10 years.

Thanks for mentioning Becton.  My apologies to the man.  I too believe that Becton put up actual film that shows he can be the future for the Jets at LT.  He must turn in a healthy season.  But I completely agree that he takes the job by force if he returns at full strength.  Yes fellas, I am aware that his struggles there are well known.  Still, I maintain that those starts as a rookie showed a rare talent whose only obstacle is his health. 

We cannot count on his return to health.  But if he returns healthy - like old man Brown just showed - the cream rises to the top. 

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Can't extend rookies until after their 3rd season.

Thanks.  I did not know that.  An odd rule for a salary cap, no?  I get the need to prevent undermining the rookie cap.  But a team should be able to manage the cap on their own to provide extra money.  Does this mean that teams are forbidden from giving a bonus to obvious standouts?  The earliest we can pay Sauce is year 3?  An odd rule. 

2 hours ago, jetsons said:

The O-Line Stays As Is barring any injuries... Fant will be the swing as will Mitchell but have Mitchell focus on overall strength conditioning. 

This is what I think.  This is what I want.  Mitchell has shown enough to be penciled in as the starter at RT next season.  Unless we need him, give him the year to get stronger and get ready.  I am thankful he was not badly injured.

1 hour ago, Lith said:

What bizarro Jet world have we entered where the Jets may actually have too many good offensive linemen.  If it is me, I am probably moving Fant back to RT when he is healthy, sending AVT back to guard and letting Herbig and Mitchell back up.  Although I would get keeping everyihting as is, I jsut think the best 5 is AVT, Brown, McGovern. Tomlinson and Fant.  Get those 5 in the lineup.

Pick a starting 5 from the back ups --  Herbig, McDermott, Mitchell, Remmers, Ogbuehi and Feeney -- and may be better than some starting units we have run out there in the recent past.

 

Right?  The emergence of Herbig inside gives us the veteran guard presence we lacked last season.   I am fine with your suggestion.  I too want to mess with AVT as little as possible.  But I am taking Zach and the O into consideration too.  For the first time really, the Jet line was running the zone scheme effectively.  Hall was getting comfortable.  Carter came in with his hair on fire (as usual).   We were opening cracks.  They could not hold their ground.

And despite what many on this board say about these Green warriors, I think that Feeney and McDermott are solid reserves.  Remmers and Ogbuehi are just free stuff.  But so was Herbig.  Hey, didn't somebody say our GM was supposed know OL?  
 

1 hour ago, KRL said:

I doubt the team will fix something that's not broken.  The present 5 (Brown,
Tomlinson, McGovern, Herbig & Vera-Tucker) are just now developing chemistry.
The returning OLinemen (Fant & Mitchell) will be depth pieces in my opinion.
In fact with the development of Mitchell & Herbig and the flexibility of AVT
I don't think Douglas is going to re-sign Fant to an extension

That is how I see it.  Whether we discount Becton entirely or not, next year's OTs appear to be starters Brown and Mitchell with Becton and a draft pick backing up.   I believe the versatility shown by AVT will lead the Jets to draft another tackle and let Fant go.  AVT will provide insurance if Becton fails to make it back.  How high we draft will depend in large part on Becton's health - and girth - at draft time imo.   Ideally old man Brown lasts through next season (a mondo "IF").  If so, the new draft pick becomes "next man up."

We agree that Fant is unlikely to be extended due to the reasons you stated.

One last point.  The current developmental guy - Grant Hermans - has had a year in the program.  I had hoped to see him in the lineup after he was activated.  Had Brown not gotten healthy when he did, I believe he would have come in for Mitchell.  While I too want #1 picks starting everywhere, Hermans played well these last two preseasons.  I am not afraid of finding out what we have there.  It is why you keep guys in the program.  He too is in the mix.  An all Jet UDFA.  So he is not a castoff or free stuff.  We signed him and invested a year on the practice squad.  So we see something there. 

 

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

they should keep AVT at right tackle until it becomes apparent he can't do the job. This is also the  move because Herbig has been turning in starter quality play at RG

Fant was always better at LT he becomes the swing (and Duane Brown insurance, because that dude is playing with a torn rotator cuff) for the rest of the season.

next year - They let Fant walk. Max Mitchell becomes OT4 (next year's swing/Duane Brown insurance) and they cut Conor.  Becton has been written off but he legit could factor into the starting lineup at LT or RT. If Brown is healthy and so is Becton maybe then AVT could go back to guard 

As for AVT he makes more money as a right tackle than a right guard, when the time comes, so he should be happy with how everything's turning out 

Unless of course some mediocre tackle prospect who happens to be the cousin of a friend of some mid level Jet Blue executive declares and we are forced by woody to draft and play him over AVT

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22 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

After 2 years of not playing? I get that you're always an optimist but this is a bit of a stretch even for you.

Yeah I know

just saying don't forget he's on the roster

there's a chance maybe 10% he gets his life right, stops treating his body like a garbage can and becomes a pro 

it's not likely but he's more in the team's plans than Fant 

 

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19 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Unless of course some mediocre tackle prospect who happens to be the cousin of a friend of some mid level Jet Blue executive declares and we are forced by woody to draft and play him over AVT

"the cousin of a friend of some mid-level executive" 

yeah ok buddy. He's the nephew of the founder of a fortune 500 company that also has a 2-3 million dollar sponsorship of the team. that money shows up every year and Woody doesn't have to do anything to get it, he just has to preserve the relationship. 

no one forces Woody to do anything but he's a businessman first and foremost. If the Jets pass on Zach and JetBlue withdraws their sponsorship, that's lost money 

Justin Fields plays huge in the CFB playoffs, does everything scouts ask for, but doesn't come with a sponsorship so he drops. That's life.  

Zach Wilson doesn't run the 40, doesn't work out at the combine, has a terrible medical record and plays against garbage competition (compared to Fields). But he goes high based on "intangibles" 

this is how the world works, ivy league colleges and especially the league. It's nepotism all the way down. It's not what you know it's who you know  

that's why Rob and Rex Ryan got all those shots, because they were the sons of Buddy Ryan inventor of the 46 Bear defense.

No one was giving disgusting pirate brothers slash foot fetishists Rob and Rex Smith the time of day, if their dad wasn't who their dad was.

Have a dad in the league, all the doors open up. 

Fact of the matter is Zach Wilson isn't playing well enough to be a starter on most NFL teams. He's elevated to the starter position here because of draft capital. If it was a meritocracy someone else would be the QB 

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23 hours ago, bitonti said:

they should keep AVT at right tackle until it becomes apparent he can't do the job. This is also the  move because Herbig has been turning in starter quality play at RG

Fant was always better at LT he becomes the swing (and Duane Brown insurance, because that dude is playing with a torn rotator cuff) for the rest of the season.

next year - They let Fant walk. Max Mitchell becomes OT4 (next year's swing/Duane Brown insurance) and they cut Conor.  Becton has been written off but he legit could factor into the starting lineup at LT or RT. If Brown is healthy and so is Becton maybe then AVT could go back to guard 

As for AVT he makes more money as a right tackle than a right guard, when the time comes, so he should be happy with how everything's turning out 

Agreed.  The day that the Jets cut McDermott is the day I feel that the Jets finally have decent OT depth.  That day might be coming soon, thanks to AVT sliding to tackle and holding his own (PFF ratings be damned).

If AVT continues to show that he can be a quality OT in the NFL, that is huge.

 

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1 minute ago, TheClashFan said:

Agreed.  The day that the Jets cut McDermott is the day I feel that the Jets finally have decent OT depth.  That day might be coming soon, thanks to AVT sliding to tackle and holding his own (PFF ratings be damned).

If AVT continues to show that he can be a quality OT in the NFL, that is huge.

 

they officially cut Conor today 

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19 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

I would leave the line exactly as it is until they give a reason to change it up again. Right now, this OL combination is dominating. If it ain't broke...

So what's interesting is how AVT playing so well at both tackle positions that it may change the offseason plans.

Had Mitchell stayed on the field this whole time (and had he played well while doing so) right up through yesterday, my guess for the offseason OL moves would've been:

  1. draft a LT to groom behind Brown (who's already signed for next year, though it isn't guaranteed), but not necessarily round 1
  2. maybe/maybe-not a center (depending on what they decide re: McGovern)
  3. maybe a LG if Tomlinson's last 13 games looked like his first 4. 

Now it's possible they may view the long term as:

  1. AVT and Mitchell as long-term tackles
  2. C decision is unchanged from above
  3. LG decision is unchanged from above
  4. draft a RG starter by day 2 vs. extending Herbig (or both, if Herbig can be extended at his current rate)
  5. draft more for depth than for immediate/needed OL starters

(Becton's outlook is the same in either scenario: great if he can get back on track, but that's a bonus rather than something to count on).

It's still too early to tell what they'll do yet - things can materialize good & bad with this many games left - but the wishlist by the end of the season could easily look very different than what plenty of fans viewed as a no-brainer just a month ago.

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7 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Zach Wilson's uncle is a bowling ball with butcher knives

people bring up Drob as if that proves all my opinions are garbage

you know what Drob proves? Having hope is dumb. 

assume these players stink until proven otherwise. 

Breece and Sauce and Quinnen proved they don't stink 

Wilson? What has he proven? 

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13 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

That he is at the center of an illuminati-level NFL conspiracy owing to his rich Uncle Soros.

it's not a conspiracy. Conspiracy is by definition a secret plan. 

this is no secret 

if your uncle sponsored your job 2.5 million dollars a year, you'd be promoted too 

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's not a conspiracy. Conspiracy is by definition a secret plan. 

this is no secret 

if your uncle sponsored your job 2.5 million dollars a year, you'd be promoted too 

Still confused how Wilson's uncle sponsored him here, even indirectly. At the time of the 2020 draft, he was already running a different airline that he's trying to build up into a competitor of the Jets' sponsor.

He's got no formal relationship with JetBlue anymore, isn't one of their top stockholders, and certainly doesn't make demands that the airline would be too embarrassed to demand of the team in the first place. 

But ok, Wilson's uncle, whose company humiliated him by unceremoniously kicking him out over a decade ago, sponsored the team drafting his nephew by bribing its billionaire owner while they have nothing to threaten him with. Lmao. 

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46 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So what's interesting is how AVT playing so well at both tackle positions that it may change the offseason plans.

Had Mitchell stayed on the field this whole time (and had he played well while doing so) right up through yesterday, my guess for the offseason OL moves would've been:

  1. draft a LT to groom behind Brown (who's already signed for next year, though it isn't guaranteed), but not necessarily round 1
  2. maybe/maybe-not a center (depending on what they decide re: McGovern)
  3. maybe a LG if Tomlinson's last 13 games looked like his first 4. 

Now it's possible they may view the long term as:

  1. AVT and Mitchell as long-term tackles
  2. C decision is unchanged from above
  3. LG decision is unchanged from above
  4. draft a RG starter by day 2 vs. extending Herbig (or both, if Herbig can be extended at his current rate)
  5. draft more for depth than for immediate/needed OL starters

(Becton's outlook is the same in either scenario: great if he can get back on track, but that's a bonus rather than something to count on).

It's still too early to tell what they'll do yet - things can materialize good & bad with this many games left - but the wishlist by the end of the season could easily look very different than what plenty of fans viewed as a no-brainer just a month ago.

It’s nice that what’s financially the best for the Jets and AVT regarding his position is aligned. It’d be huge if he stays strong there.

Extending Herbig at a reasonable salary would be cool. Doing that kind of stuff more often is definitely an area where Douglas could improve, IMO.

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22 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's not a conspiracy. Conspiracy is by definition a secret plan. 

this is no secret 

if your uncle sponsored your job 2.5 million dollars a year, you'd be promoted too 

I mean, forget everything else for a second, the kid does have absurd throwing talent.

It's the rest of it that's the problem.

I don't think it's worth overcomplicating anymore than that. 

We start Zach because we're betting on that arm talent. 

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1 minute ago, derp said:

Extending Herbig at a reasonable salary would be cool. Doing that kind of stuff more often is definitely an area where Douglas could improve, IMO.

We'll see what happens. If they extend Herbig it may not be to be the starter. Conversely, if he's the starting RG for the rest of the year and the Jets (or anyone) sees him as their starter, then he won't be so cheap. He's so little because he's on his RFA tender. What if extending him is $6MM/year or more (comp to Glowinski)? Not crazy starter money, but too much for a backup guard.

I'm sure we're all fine (at this point) in re-upping him in the ~$3MM Feeney range, but that might not be possible. 

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Still confused how Wilson's uncle sponsored him here, even indirectly. At the time of the 2020 draft, he was already running a different airline that he's trying to build up into a competitor of the Jets' sponsor.

He's got no formal relationship with JetBlue anymore, isn't one of their top stockholders, and certainly doesn't make demands that the airline would be too embarrassed to demand of the team in the first place. 

But ok, Wilson's uncle, whose company humiliated him by unceremoniously kicking him out over a decade ago, sponsored the team drafting his nephew by bribing its billionaire owner while they have nothing to threaten him with. Lmao. 

Whether David Neeleman owns a single share isn't all that relevant. 

He is the founder of the company and the first line of his obituary will say so. It's what he's best known for. 

while not "Formal" he still has a very real relationship with JetBlue in fact JetBlue official twitter shows support for both Neeleman and Zach 

if we want to get into the weeds the same people (Joel Peterson) who provide venture capital for Breeze and Neeleman's other ventures are among JetBlue's biggest individual shareholders.  Neeleman cashed out most of his personal shares to do other things but that doesn't mean he has no relationship with JetBlue or the community of people who run it

that's not even getting into the Joseph Smith of it all, as all these guys from Neeleman, to his board, to Zach, even the big hedge funds that back Neeleman are all affiliated with the LDS. Ensign Peak Advisors which is basically the LDS church itself owns over 110k shares. 

my dad doesn't pay my school bills anymore but he's still my dad.  

Neeleman will always be the founder of JetBlue. Zach is the nephew of a man whose company he founded pays the Jets millions of dollars a year for advertising.  Heck they fly around on a JetBlue team charter. None of this is a coincidence. 

636420491979314331-Jets-1.jpg

 

Is that your position @Sperm Edwards ? that this is all some sort of wacky coincidence involving billionaires and millionaires? That Zach got everything in his life based on merit? 

things that make you go hmm.

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18 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I mean, forget everything else for a second, the kid does have absurd throwing talent.

It's the rest of it that's the problem.

I don't think it's worth overcomplicating anymore than that. 

We start Zach because we're betting on that arm talent. 

His arm talent is not in question. His physical body (ability to stay healthy) is very much in question. 

he's got arm talent but didn't throw the MPH at the combine. He's got speed but never ran the 40. He had no signature wins, unless we want to go back to his soph year at USC. He lost to Coastal Carolina as a junior. 

yes he has talent. But he didn't have to prove it. Not like these other prospects.

He was drafted high and given a job he didn't earn

and here we are talking about super bowl when the dude is throwing for 100 yards a game 

i was never a huge Sanchez guy but you know that guy earned everything. His dad was what a firefighter? Darnold's Dad was like a contractor or something. Zach's family lived a different kind of life, one that isn't usually compatible with life in the NFL 

like even this year Zach took his time getting healthy with his own doctors etc. meanwhile Jameis Winston was playing with fractured vertebrae 

i just don't believe in Zach and his recent performances don't do much to change my mind. I'm glad they are winning with the 31st ranked QB in football. But at some point he has to get better 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

His arm talent is not in question. His physical body (ability to stay healthy) is very much in question. 

he's got arm talent but didn't throw the MPH at the combine. He's got speed but never ran the 40

yes he has talent. But he didn't have to prove it. He was drafted high and given a job he didn't earn

and here we are talking about super bowl when the dude is throwing for 100 yards a game 

Few rational people are saying "they're sold, he's the FQB".

Most are saying "he's got the talent, we're 3-0 since he returned, and he hasn't sh*t the bed - let's see what happens."

If he gets seriously injured again this year or has 1100 yards passing in the next 11 games, let's move on. With the talent we have, there are no excuses. 

But the two camps that have dominated the conversation, the "I'm-sold-Zach-is-Great" fellas and the "Jet-Blue-Kanye-Conspiracy" contingent are just not being entirely rational right now.

It's too early. 

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