The Debbie Downer Train of doubt and excuses

[Spoot-Face]

4 minutes ago, Supersonic said:

The Jets can win the super bowl, and they'll still be post after post about how awful they were getting there, and how lucky they were to win.  The downer crowd on this board is comically predictable.  LGJ!!!

"Of course a Superbowl with the Zach Wilson led Jets would have a half-time show featuring Morgan Wallen, Nickelback, and the Spice Girls. SOJ This team sucks!"

--Me, probably

[Irish Jet]

45 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

We are all alive and all of this matters 

…

Go away ghost!

[HighPitch]

Now now fan boys calm down

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

43 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is the best case scenario for many here.

These are the people that truly want Zach Wilson to fail (and it's becoming clear there are more than I thought)

Those people get to be excited about a win - and still complain about Zach Wilson, while holding out that last little bit of hope that he's still a bust.

I noticed at least 3 of the classic Anti-Zach crew that haven't been on this board for the past two weeks (when Zach played well and we won) that are now back and in their glory...declaring he hasn't gotten better from last year and is a bust.  Comical, yet sad.

I really do feel bad for these people...

Hi, I’m a Zach Wilson hater. Yes I am enjoying the win because wins have been few and far between for my entire 34 years of existence.

But you are confusing things a little bit. no one here is hoping that he is a bust. No one. Some of us just have a feeling that he will. A game in which we win but he throws for 110 yards isn’t going to stop the criticisms.

There are definitely things that should concern everyone. His completion percentage needs to be better. He needs to learn to put some touch on certain passes. No need to throw lasers to a rb 5 yards away. His ball placement can be better at times as well.

Yes I’d say he has improved in some areas from last year. He’s definitely cutting down the turnovers and I love the way he moves around in the pocket. He has a rocket for an arm and no doubt he has flashed his potential. But they are just flashes. He needs to be more consistent and do it for a complete game.  Im still waiting for a 300 yard performance or a game with 3 tds.

Right now it looks like we have a good team with a below average qb. Kind of like the Sanchez days. Trust me I would love to be proven wrong. I hope he can become a franchise qb. But from what I’ve seen so far I’m just not sure that he is.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

It's fine to be skeptical but don't be such a downer that you're constantly reverting to "Yeah, but..

You people complain about the haters then spend all day and night starting threads and tagging posts to get the haters to respond to you. Just admit that you want and need the haters to do the dirty work of processing your Jets-related anxieties for you. Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be protected by men who aren’t afraid to be downvoted. Who’s gonna do it? You? You weep for Zach Wilson and you curse PFF. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know; that dragging Wilson, while tragic, probably helps us win a Super Bowl. And the existence of the haters, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at tailgates, you want us on that wall. You need us on that wall. We use words like “completion percentage,” “DVOA,” “yards per attempt.” We use these words as the backbone of a life explaining why Sanchez and Pennington and Darnold were mirages. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very realism I provide. I would rather you just said “thank you” and went back to sipping on your IPA. Otherwise, I suggest you open a tab on Pro-Football-Reference and stand a post. Otherwise, I don’t give a damn how many threads you people post complaining about “Debbie Downer.” 

[RutgersJetFan]

Yes the Jets won games but they had to play football to win those games and that's a bad thing.

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You people complain about the haters then spend all day and night starting threads and tagging posts to get the haters to respond to you. Just admit that you want and need the haters to do the dirty work of processing your Jets-related anxieties for you. Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be protected by men who aren’t afraid to be downvoted. Who’s gonna do it? You? You weep for Zach Wilson and you curse PFF. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know; that dragging Wilson, while tragic, probably helps us win a Super Bowl. And the existence of the haters, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at tailgates, you want us on that wall. You need us on that wall. We use words like “completion percentage,” “DVOA,” “yards per attempt.” We use these words as the backbone of a life explaining why Sanchez and Pennington and Darnold were mirages. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very realism I provide. I would rather you just said “thank you” and went back to sipping on your IPA. Otherwise, I suggest you open a tab on Pro-Football-Reference and stand a post. Otherwise, I don’t give a damn how many threads you people post complaining about “Debbie Downer.” 

This would have been clever yesterday before you told everyone they don't care about Elijah Moore's emotions enough. Today it's just uncouth. You're no Jessup, Senor Feelings. 

[Embrace the Suck]

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

This would have been clever yesterday before you told everyone they don't care about Elijah Moore's emotions enough. Today it's just uncouth. You're no Jessup, Senor Feelings. 

You KNOW I’ve never processed an emotion, pally.

[Gramsci]

31 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

…

Go away ghost!

Just a spectre haunting JetNation.

[Warfish]

29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You people complain about the haters then spend all day and night starting threads and tagging posts to get the haters to respond to you. Just admit that you want and need the haters to do the dirty work of processing your Jets-related anxieties for you.

 

[Ken Schroy]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

You people complain about the haters then spend all day and night starting threads and tagging posts to get the haters to respond to you. Just admit that you want and need the haters to do the dirty work of processing your Jets-related anxieties for you. Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be protected by men who aren’t afraid to be downvoted. Who’s gonna do it? You? You weep for Zach Wilson and you curse PFF. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know; that dragging Wilson, while tragic, probably helps us win a Super Bowl. And the existence of the haters, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at tailgates, you want us on that wall. You need us on that wall. We use words like “completion percentage,” “DVOA,” “yards per attempt.” We use these words as the backbone of a life explaining why Sanchez and Pennington and Darnold were mirages. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very realism I provide. I would rather you just said “thank you” and went back to sipping on your IPA. Otherwise, I suggest you open a tab on Pro-Football-Reference and stand a post. Otherwise, I don’t give a damn how many threads you people post complaining about “Debbie Downer.” 

Jeez you spent a lot of time on this one. LOL

[greenwichjetfan]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This is the best case scenario for many here.

These are the people that truly want Zach Wilson to fail (and it's becoming clear there are more than I thought)

Those people get to be excited about a win - and still complain about Zach Wilson, while holding out that last little bit of hope that he's still a bust.

I noticed at least 3 of the classic Anti-Zach crew that haven't been on this board for the past two weeks (when Zach played well and we won) that are now back and in their glory...declaring he hasn't gotten better from last year and is a bust.  Comical, yet sad.

I really do feel bad for these people...

Names? Some of us actually do want the Jets to do well and are worried that Zach will eventually limit that potential based on what we’ve seen over a 16 game stretch. I’ve been here every week enjoying the wins while pointing out that Zach’s ball placement is a very big issue that hasn’t been corrected. His teammates making adjustments and bailing him out the last few weeks is not a sustainable strategy. He needs to prove that he’s the FQB that the proverbial “you all” have been telling us he already is. To date, he’s 0-16 in that department, whereas other young QBs have taken the field over the last few years and proven very quickly that they can ball even when their team loses.

As I’ve said many times - I will be ecstatic if Zach becomes a top 10 QB in the league for us. I just haven’t seen any evidence at all to support that narrative, and I will continue to point it out to balance the forum.

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You people complain about the haters then spend all day and night starting threads and tagging posts to get the haters to respond to you. Just admit that you want and need the haters to do the dirty work of processing your Jets-related anxieties for you. Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be protected by men who aren’t afraid to be downvoted. Who’s gonna do it? You? You weep for Zach Wilson and you curse PFF. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know; that dragging Wilson, while tragic, probably helps us win a Super Bowl. And the existence of the haters, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at tailgates, you want us on that wall. You need us on that wall. We use words like “completion percentage,” “DVOA,” “yards per attempt.” We use these words as the backbone of a life explaining why Sanchez and Pennington and Darnold were mirages. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very realism I provide. I would rather you just said “thank you” and went back to sipping on your IPA. Otherwise, I suggest you open a tab on Pro-Football-Reference and stand a post. Otherwise, I don’t give a damn how many threads you people post complaining about “Debbie Downer.” 

 

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, Gramsci said:

The Jets won their last two games by 23 and 17. Let that sink in.

Not to mention the victory in Pittsburgh, where Brady wasn't as clutch as Wilson. 

Yeah, but they could have won by 27.

[jamesr]

Yeah but, Aaron Rodgers had a boo-boo on his thumb

Yeah but, Aaron Rodgers didn't have enough weapinz

Yeah but, Russel Wilson's hammy was playing up

... etc ... etc ... etc ...

[rangerous]

12 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

The amazing thing is that the Jets are turning into a team that can win games with just average QB play.  That's a very, very good thing.

I think Zach will turn out to be a better than average QB.  That might be enough to go very far, similar to the 49ers getting to a Super Bowl and then a NFC Championship Game with Garropolo, or even our own Jets with Sanchez years ago.  At this point the Jets are very much looking like a Minnesota Vikings type team.  If Zach can become a better QB than Cousins over the next couple years the Jets could be a team competing for the playoffs consistently every year.

don't forget the other team has something to do with average qb play.  wilson has seen a lot of pressure.  granted some of this is on him but after seeing that drive in the steelers game it's obvious he's got something.  same thing with that late drive in the green bay game and the passes to davis.

[OilfieldJet]

12 hours ago, shawn306 said:

The only thing that matters when it comes to Zach is that he is not turning the ball over.

As the year progresses, WR’s will get their touches, TE’s will get their touches, Rb’s will get their touches. 
 

Just give it time

Avoiding mistakes, especially for a team like ours, is so important. No INTs Zach.

[FidelioJet]

16 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Hi, I’m a Zach Wilson hater. Yes I am enjoying the win because wins have been few and far between for my entire 34 years of existence.

But you are confusing things a little bit. no one here is hoping that he is a bust. No one. Some of us just have a feeling that he will. A game in which we win but he throws for 110 yards isn’t going to stop the criticisms.

There are definitely things that should concern everyone. His completion percentage needs to be better. He needs to learn to put some touch on certain passes. No need to throw lasers to a rb 5 yards away. His ball placement can be better at times as well.

Yes I’d say he has improved in some areas from last year. He’s definitely cutting down the turnovers and I love the way he moves around in the pocket. He has a rocket for an arm and no doubt he has flashed his potential. But they are just flashes. He needs to be more consistent and do it for a complete game.  Im still waiting for a 300 yard performance or a game with 3 tds.

Right now it looks like we have a good team with a below average qb. Kind of like the Sanchez days. Trust me I would love to be proven wrong. I hope he can become a franchise qb. But from what I’ve seen so far I’m just not sure that he is.

This is a reasonable post.  And if there was more of this I would much happier.

I disagree with most of what you wrote - but it's reasonable.

Here's where I agree:

• Big arm,
• moves comfortably in the pocket
• His ball placement could be better sometimes.  Particularly, he seems to be off with G. Wilson right now.  He does seem to throw behind more than he should.  He had this problem with C. Davis last year - but that doesn't seem to be the case right anymore.  So hopefully he can work through this.  Of all the things I'm concerned about it is this - I think everything is there, but his erratic ball placement does seem to be a legit concern for me.

Here's where I disagree

• He has more than "flashed" he put the team on his back in Pittsburg and put up two 4th quarter TD's - when they were needed
• He throws with plenty of touch - it's an overused statement that's not backed up with anything.  He's not seeing drops because he throws the ball too hard
• I'm not sure what a "complete game" means.  Perfection?  The Pittsburg game he was very good, surely he struggled a bit in that 3rd quarter - but most NFL QB's have bumps throughout a game.  He's thrown for 297 yards in a previous game (so if he threw for 3 more yards that day he would be better?)

Additional points:

• He clearly seems to start off slow.  He needs to fix that.  He seems like once he gets in a groove much of his other problems, like inaccuracy go away.  Not sure what he can do about this but needs to resolve it.
• The completion % doesn't bother me at all, yards and TD's don't bother me at all.  He's doing what the Jets have asked him to do.  He'll be fine with that.
• Question: So far this year, when has Zach Wilson been asked to come up with a game winning drive and failed?  When he's needed to step up, he has EVERY time.  
• Zach is going to be fine - he just needs to get over the first quarter jitters a bit.  

Most importantly -

He is light years ahead of where he was last year at this time - completely different player.  This is what so many of you don't want to accept.  Every QB coming into the NFL is going to start and one place and end at another.  Zach had a long way to go - he's showing massive progress, he's showing elite traits,s he's' winning games and doing what he's being asked to do.

Yes, surely his game still has plenty of flaws and he still has a lot of work to do.

[More Cowbell]

13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Some narratives/excuses that have been moved to the back burner in recent weeks...

1. Yeah, the Jets won on the road but they needed trick plays and an onside kick to do it.  Let's see them win for real. (after Cleveland)

2. Yeah, they won for real but were outplayed for 3 quarters and needed Zach to play hero ball for a comeback win in the 4th Q.  Let's see them go wire-to-wire.  (after Steelers)

3. Yeah, they went wire-to-wire with a commanding win vs a division opponent but it was against a 3rd string QB.  Let's see them beat a quality QB!!! (after Miami)

4. Okay, okay...yeah they beat one of the Top 5 QBs of the last decade on the road, didn't need luck, AND went wire-to-wire again never trailing in the game.  But....  Elijah Moore needs more targets. (after Green Bay)

 

It's fine to be skeptical but don't be such a downer that you're constantly reverting to "Yeah, but..." all the time.  We've had plenty to complain about for years around here, I'm going to take the time to just enjoy these victories rather than focusing on a few clouds on an otherwise very sunny day.

 

Actually I haven't  really  thought of any of this except the Miami comment, but thanks for posting. 

[HighPitch]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You people complain about the haters then spend all day and night starting threads and tagging posts to get the haters to respond to you. 

So you admit there theres a lot of haters on this board? Thanks for letting everyone know that they 100% exist.

 

This is getting sooo silly now. The negative nilly haters are upset because their predictions did not come true and we are doing well. The "positive" posters are rubbing it into the haters. The haters are even more mad that they have been exposed as sour pusses

 

 

So who is worse here? clearly the HATERS!

[More Cowbell]

13 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Its all Zach Wilson now.  Its all the diseased have left.  They are clinging to him with their last dying breath.

The rest of us are partying like its 1999.

Jets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, can you just chill out for a couple of days? There is so little to complain about. Most everyone is generally  happy and just talking about what needs to improve. This disease  BS needs to stop. Everyone here is on board now. Zach is the last piece of this puzzle that needs to be solved. 

[More Cowbell]

13 hours ago, LSJF said:

Establishing the running game is winning football, it will loosen up and give our receivers even more space when the other teams tend to lean on the run… Everybody’s freaking impatient, I think Zach is doing just fine

Ok, for real? Zach is doing fine. If he has a game like the GB one against NE, we lose. We need Miami Zach that game, GB Zach would be a disaster. 

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Ok, for real? Zach is doing fine. If he has a game like the GB one against NE, we lose. We need Miami Zach that game, GB Zach would be a disaster. 

NE D is allowing 4.7 yards per rush and Zippy isn't Aaron Rodgers. 

[More Cowbell]

9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

NE D is allowing 4.7 yards per rush and Zippy isn't Aaron Rodgers. 

Rogers isn't  Rogers anymore. 

[slats]

27 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

He clearly seems to start off slow.  He needs to fix that.  He seems like once he gets in a groove much of his other problems, like inaccuracy go away.  Not sure what he can do about this but needs to resolve it.

I remember Phil Simms talking about this a long time ago. Bill Parcells was a big fan of conservative, defense first football -the ground & pound philosophy we all love- and he described the difficulty of getting into a groove after only throwing a few passes over the course the first few quarters then being asked to carry the team late. Zach demonstrated he could actually do that against Pittsburgh, but it’s no easy task. All QBs get going by throwing more. It’s why Brady like throwing 40 or more times a game. 
 
Problem here is that I don’t see these Jets getting away from a ground & pound approach for as long as it’s working. 

[T0mShane]

29 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

So you admit there theres a lot of haters on this board? Thanks for letting everyone know that they 100% exist.

 

This is getting sooo silly now. The negative nilly haters are upset because their predictions did not come true and we are doing well. The "positive" posters are rubbing it into the haters. The haters are even more mad that they have been exposed as sour pusses

 

 

So who is worse here? clearly the HATERS!

Picturing you screaming into the face of a six year old student while the 26 year old second-year teacher whom you refer to as your “work wife” looks on in horror while documenting the whole thing for HR.

[HighPitch]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Picturing you screaming into the face of a six year old student while the 26 year old second-year teacher whom you refer to as your “work wife” looks on in horror while documenting the whole thing for HR.

Thats exactly what SAR! would NOT say. Because he was funny

[HighPitch]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Picturing you screaming into the face of a six year old student while the 26 year old second-year teacher whom you refer to as your “work wife” looks on in horror while documenting the whole thing for HR.

The kids are over 14 and the work wife is a well preserved 40. Double Ds as well but Im a butt guy but she is a lot of fun. Also, I never scream at kids. I am always nice and calm. 

[Biggs]

47 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

So you admit there theres a lot of haters on this board? Thanks for letting everyone know that they 100% exist.

 

This is getting sooo silly now. The negative nilly haters are upset because their predictions did not come true and we are doing well. The "positive" posters are rubbing it into the haters. The haters are even more mad that they have been exposed as sour pusses

 

 

So who is worse here? clearly the HATERS!

I've been extremely positive about this team and there isn't a person on this board that hates the Jets more than me.  

[Bugg]

Defense is very good. The Broncos offense of last night is not gonna do much against them. And their head coach is an idiot. 

The Jets' running attack is outstanding. 

Would love to see a more effective passing attack. And that what it will take to make noise in the division and in the playoffs. 

This week is a win. After that, open minded; we shall see. 

 

[LSJF]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Ok, for real? Zach is doing fine. If he has a game like the GB one against NE, we lose. We need Miami Zach that game, GB Zach would be a disaster. 

Yes he’s doing fine, establishing the run game is somehow a detriment to a quarterback? When he throws the ball away after being chased out of pocket, that’s an incomplete, I’ll take that over a interception… Have you forgotten the game against the Steelers, when he was coming up big in the fourth quarter, not sure what you expect from him… Is it 300 yards or failure? Is he Josh Allen right now? No..Was Josh Allen Josh Allen in his second year… I think he’s got “it”… I did not feel that way about the last hundred quarterbacks we had… I love having a power running game by the way, we eat the clock, wear down to the defenses… The passes will come, or else the wide receivers will freak… By the way he threw an nice bomb to Cory Davis…

[Warfish]

It's funny, but the primary "Debbie Downers" I'm seeing this week, post-GB win, are a subset of the "Homer" fans trying to take misguided victory laps over their fellow fans. 

These folks are mostly not posting about the team, the win, or anything good. 

It's all "**** you other Jets fans for not being as good of Jets fans as us!" gatekeeping threads, like this one.

Good times.  

 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's funny, but the primary "Debbie Downers" I'm seeing this week, post-GB win, are a subset of the "Homer" fans trying to take misguided victory laps over their fellow fans. 

These folks are mostly not posting about the team, the win, or anything good. 

It's all "**** you other Jets fans for not being as good of Jets fans as us!" gatekeeping threads, like this one.

Good times.  

 

What’s also funny is that you seem to be taking it more personally than the people who the OP was probably targeting. You’re seeing more of the dreaded “homers” the last couple weeks because the primary trolls of the past year or more have been quieted by a three game winning streak. Although they did creep back in a bit with Zach’s 110 yard performance, as expected. 
 
Don’t worry, though, the next loss will establish the equilibrium that you’re more used to, lol. 

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

You’re seeing more of the dreaded “homers” the last couple weeks because the primary trolls of the past year or more have been quieted by a three game winning streak. Although they did creep back in a bit with Zach’s 110 yard performance, as expected.

I haven't seen any of "those folks" posting any less of late.  And the posts I've seen have been just as happy with our wins anyone else.  Like I said, all the downer threads are from homers pretending to speak for the haters, not the haters themselves this week.

Yup, Zach is still an ongoing topic, as is his production levels.  Not really surprising, is it, after all isn't "2022 all about Zach"?  You can be very happy we're winning, and still think Zach has room for improvement.  Wouldn't you agree?

18 minutes ago, slats said:

 Don’t worry, though, the next loss will establish the equilibrium that you’re more used to, lol. 

Hopefully that loss doesn't come for quite a while.  The next two games are both very much winnable, and that is where my focus is.  Hoping we really do take that step, and win them both.  6-2 going into Buffalo, the game I'll be at.....hell yeah.  Sign me up right now!