Elijah moore requests trade (merged)

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I literally just said I agree with him.

His role is stupid, yes. Deep, slow developing routes - when Flacco had a patchwork OL and Zach is Zach.

We can have wins and also want to get better. There’s a ton of room for improvement. What happens when we can’t run the ball? We have no passing offense. Having him run routes is not ‘getting him involved’. To me, this is a case of him seeing a gaping hole in the team that other teams will figure out. It’s not just about GB.

Its very easy to shout “selfish”, but I’m looking more deeply at the root cause if this flare up.

I get what you’re saying but It’s not a case of it being easy to shout “selfish”.  What happened yesterday, having a sit down to complain about how many catches he has, to be told to go home and then he reacts by asking for a trade is childish and selfish.  I don’t care that he hasn’t had as many touches as he thinks he needs.  The staff has 
And when the Jets have needed to pass, as when they trailed in Pitt or when they had to vs the fish, they’ve been able to pass.  It’s a team with a developing QB, leaning on the running game makes sense, especially given how good it is.  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

 

Elijah deserves to go someplace were they cater to his needs better as an individual player and person. 
 

Same

[The Crusher]

9 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I literally just said I agree with him.

His role is stupid, yes. Deep, slow developing routes - when Flacco had a patchwork OL and Zach is Zach.

We can have wins and also want to get better. There’s a ton of room for improvement. What happens when we can’t run the ball? We have no passing offense. Having him run routes is not ‘getting him involved’. To me, this is a case of him seeing a gaping hole in the team that other teams will figure out. It’s not just about GB.

Its very easy to shout “selfish”, but I’m looking more deeply at the root cause if this flare up.

I would assume when we can’t run the ball we will pass it Moore!

[maury77]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I get what you’re saying but It’s not a case of it being easy to shout “selfish”.  What happened yesterday, having a sit down to complain about how many catches he has, to be told to go home and then he reacts by asking for a trade is childish and selfish.  I don’t care that he hasn’t had as many touches as he thinks he needs.  The staff has 
And when the Jets have needed to pass, as when they trailed in Pitt or when they had to vs the fish, they’ve been able to pass.  It’s a team with a developing QB, leaning on the running game makes sense, especially given how good it is.  

Even if Moore isn't being used properly (and he probably isn't), there are much better ways to approach the situation than how he did. 

[Barry McCockinner]

So far other players have been saying all the "right" things in the media but you have to wonder what they're really thinking. I'll bet he's created a lot of animosity with guys who are enjoying winning games as a team.

Mosely needs to pull Moore aside and give him a veteran "pep talk" to let him know what he's doing ain't it.

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

There was zero evidence of Moore being ‘selfish’ before this

You can both win AND put your best players in position to contribute. Moore is being schemed into a stupid role. He’s basically a decoy, because his routes take too long to develop and Zach can’t read defenses and wait for them to develop. So, similar to QW lashing out about scheme, I don’t disagree with Moore.

I don’t agree with the mindset of “you can criticize or ask for change because you’re winning”. We’re not always going to be able to hide the atrocity that Zach is - and then we’re going to need Moore being used smartly, and for the pip squeak get the ball to him.

Ultimately, Moore isn’t wrong. It’s a problem that needs fixing - even if we’re able yo get away with it right now. Good teams will figure out how to exploit it eventually.

The issue here isn’t he can’t criticize the way he’s been used up to now.  It’s he aired his complaint to the press on the field immediately after a big win and the when it was discussed he went into baby mode and asked out via trade.  
Now ZW is an atrocity?  So it’s Zach’s fault?  We’ve really reached the bottom reaching for a defense to a totally selfish take by Moore.  Maybe Zach should start complaining about drops by a rookie trying to learn the NFL or by a TE?

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Even if Moore isn't being used properly (and he probably isn't), there are much better ways to approach the situation than how he did. 

That’s the point by most.  The Jets are winning, the program is moving forward and he’s worried about what his ego or his next contract?  Two things that have nothing to do with making his team better.  
Im not getting how the way he has handled things is being defended.  As if being a douche to his CS and teammates is acceptable.  
He could handled the questions over his usage in a better way

[CanadaSteve]

15 hours ago, bitonti said:

This outside run ground and pound system isn't making any pass catchers happy 

Sorry, maybe I missed something, and shouldn't ask this question:

So what?

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That’s the point by most.  The Jets are winning, the program is moving forward and he’s worried about what his ego or his next contract?  Two things that have nothing to do with making his team better.  
Im not getting how the way he has handled things is being defended.  As if being a douche to his CS and teammates is acceptable.  

It's not, just a couple of anti-zach trolls using this as an opportunity to continue their same old schtick.

It's kinda tiring at this point.

[Integrity28]

9 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Yea totally 

did you see that scrub QB we beat up last week? 

Like I’ve said, besting Rodgers was the first sign that something real may be happening.

I don’t think one win against him invalidates what I’m saying, but if we want to have low-brow arguments sure, fine, okay…

[Integrity28]

9 hours ago, tfine said:

 

Zach doesn’t play against the opposing QB. He plays against the opposing defense. You still need to run the ball if teams stack the box. You can’t throw 59 times because there’s a extra guy in the box.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

I mean, I don’t even know how to respond to statements like this. I didn’t say any of the things you’re counter-arguing… so, okay?

[T0mShane]

 

[Claymation]

That's what I get for buying my son his jersey.

[Integrity28]

9 hours ago, Mogglez said:

How is making the moment about you, not your team, while also costing your team a critical victory, not selfish?

He did a celebration. By that definition every player in the league for the past 30 years has been toxically selfish. He just chose the wrong way to celebrate… spinning it as selfish is just suiting the agenda here, which is fine, you guys and your emotions can do whatever… but, celebrations are categorically a part of the game. 

Him getting drawn into Cinini’s bait and letting it become a thing is more about immaturity than selfishness.

 

[68JET11]

I'm sitting at Fish and Wings, in Shallotte, NC last night after a long 2 days of moving, and I'm ordering my food... First real food I've had in the last 3 days... All of a sudden in the background on the big screen TV, I see JETS, and Zack Wilson talking.... So once I finished my order, I walk over to read (no sound), what was going on, and Zach was gone, and Moore replaced him... Up scrolls the caption "Moore requests trade" I almost asked for a beer lol.. 

Seriously, I know this has probably been repeated a thousand times, but WTF is wrong with this dude. Finally we are starting to win, and this... I get athletes want to participate as much as possible. but go to the coach and ask him how can I get more touches, is there something I can work on, or am doing the wrong way. Do that first, then maybe you go and ask privately for a trade... At this point sit him a game, and play Mims...  

[Mogglez]

5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

He did a celebration. By that definition every player in the league for the past 30 years has been toxically selfish. He just chose the wrong way to celebrate… spinning it as selfish is just suiting the agenda here, which is fine, you guys and your emotions can do whatever… but, celebrations are categorically a part of the game. 

Him getting drawn into Cinini’s bait and letting it become a thing is more about immaturity than selfishness.

 

The rules on celebrations in college are not the same as the NFL, and that same celebration earned Odell Beckham Jr. a flag in the big leagues as well.  There is absolutely no defending what he did then, just like there should be no defending him now.

There is, also, no agenda.  He has displayed selfish tendencies in the past, claimed he moved on from that, grew, and is now throwing a selfish fit.

[WILLY]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's not, just a couple of anti-zach trolls using this as an opportunity to continue their same old schtick.

It's kinda tiring at this point.

yep - very tiring. the thread is about Elijah Moore's culture cancer.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

Does that account for 6 inches in height?

For the record, many of Davis's catches - he's barely open.  Catches that Tiny Eli couldn't make.

Tiny Eli has to be, for lack of a better word - extra open - to make a play.  

[undertow]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's not, just a couple of anti-zach trolls using this as an opportunity to continue their same old schtick.

It's kinda tiring at this point.

Breece Hall has a few good games and now fans want to run the single wing.....if the Jets can't win games with the number 2 overall pick throwing 25-30 times a game in his second year we have major problems at the position. 

[Integrity28]

16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That’s the point by most.  The Jets are winning, the program is moving forward and he’s worried about what his ego or his next contract?  Two things that have nothing to do with making his team better.  
Im not getting how the way he has handled things is being defended.  As if being a douche to his CS and teammates is acceptable.  
He could handled the questions over his usage in a better way

I’m not defending how he’s handling it. I’m saying the root cause is valid, meaning it’s a very real problem that we cannot get the ball to him, Garret or the TEs we invested in with any level of consistency or competency.

He’s a dufus for biting in Ciminis bait and letting it get in his head, but I don’t think he’s selfish - necessarily - I think he’s young and passionate with a side of dummy.

 

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, jgb said:

Time for PVO Saleh to earn his money and get Moore settled and reintegrated 

This is a challenge for the Head Coach, to try and fix the situation, and not let it mess with the team chemistry and attitude we seemed to be building this year.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, undertow said:

Breece Hall has a few good games and now fans want to run the single wing.....if the Jets can't win games with the number 2 overall pick throwing 25-30 times a game in his second year we have major problems at the position. 

Kind of ironic considering we're the Jets.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

The rules on celebrations in college are not the same as the NFL, and that same celebration earned Odell Beckham Jr. a flag in the big leagues as well.  There is absolutely no defending what he did then, just like there should be no defending him now.

There is, also, no agenda.  He has displayed selfish tendencies in the past, claimed he moved on from that and grew, and is now throwing a selfish fit.

So, it was dumb… like I said.

The only thing anyone is producing to validate “selfish” history is the celebration. Nobody has once mentioned him being selfish here before. Not once. I think him being dumb and emotional is being conflated with him being selfish. That’s all.

I just don’t think it’s fair to brand every player that has a misstep as selfish. I just don’t see it here. I think this whole thing is a growth opportunity for him and we’re going to live rooting for him when he starts tearing it up. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Whatever happened here, you can be sure that the problem is Rich Cimini and SOJF's.

[WILLY]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

He’s a dufus for biting in Ciminis bait and letting it get in his head, but I don’t think he’s selfish - necessarily - I think he’s young and passionate with a side of dummy.

 

You may be right - it is hard to tell exactly where stupid ends and selfish begins. My guess is that he is some of both.

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Like I’ve said, besting Rodgers was the first sign that something real may be happening.

I don’t think one win against him invalidates what I’m saying, but if we want to have low-brow arguments sure, fine, okay…

Your argument was already invalid 

You can only beat who is on your schedule. I don’t think the jets are world beaters but they are much better than they have been. Look at the defense they are playing - the QB hits, the sacks, the turnovers. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Does that account for 6 inches in height?

For the record, many of Davis's catches - he's barely open.  Catches that Tiny Eli couldn't make.

Tiny Eli has to be, for lack of a better word - extra open - to make a play.  

I do think that inaccurate QBs do better throwing to guys with larger catch radii, yes. So you have a point

[Integrity28]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Does that account for 6 inches in height?

For the record, many of Davis's catches - he's barely open.  Catches that Tiny Eli couldn't make.

Tiny Eli has to be, for lack of a better word - extra open - to make a play.  

This may be the dumbest take in the thread.

[ryu79]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

LOL...fed his spiral?  JFC.

So as a beat writer for the team he should not share observations that jump out because of the player's potential fragility?    
 

I'll reiterate for clarity. Cimini is an energy vampire. The Jets were celebrating a rare moment of delight after years of blight and Dick was out there looking for any angle to complain about to see if he could generate some retweets for himself and create a negative counter press cycle. Its a business and Dick got what he wanted from it - but its still aggravating that the Jets can't be allowed to have one day of positive press. 

Agree, he couldn't know Elijah would be this fragile, unless it was a planted story from the agent (which I've seen speculated too). Either way, his tweets became part of the spiral... 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Have we considered that maybe Moore wants to go to a team that wins *more* but maybe has a more creative passing game, better QB, and and obvious need for wide receivers? A team like the Giants perhaps?

 

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

29th in passing attempts and 31 in passing yards.  5th in rushing attempts and 4th in rushing yards.  That NY Giants team.  

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Your argument was already invalid 

You can only beat who is on your schedule. I don’t think the jets are world beaters but they are much better than they have been. Look at the defense they are playing - the QB hits, the sacks, the turnovers. 

This isn’t the argument I’m making. Stop replying unless you want to level-set on the actual point.

I know our defense is good.

[JustInFudge]

48 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

Holy hell, this F'ing guy.  lmfao.  I dont have the twatter but are like people tagging him w/ all these stats about his usage?  

[SuicidalSince98]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

Davis is a foot taller, makes contested catches, doesn’t dog routes, and blocks like an animal. 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, undertow said:

Breece Hall has a few good games and now fans want to run the single wing.....if the Jets can't win games with the number 2 overall pick throwing 25-30 times a game in his second year we have major problems at the position. 

Sure.  Luckily enough for the Jets - they've won 2 of the 3 games with the #2 overall pick throwing 20+ times a games.  This same #2 overall pick, in three games, is averaging 25 throws a game.

People are falling for the trap of a handful of people looking to stir the pot.  Zach Wilson played well the first two games, threw the ball plenty and the team won both games.

Zach had a very slow first half last week - playing in the pouring rain, in a hostile environment....While one the greatest QB's of all-time ALSO had a very rough half.  He then went on to have a solid 3rd quarter and didn't throw once in the 4th (because they had no need to)

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I do think that inaccurate QBs do better throwing to guys with larger catch radii, yes. So you have a point

Truth is Tiny Eli belongs in the slot.  Problem is he's probably the 3rd best slot receiver on the team - and he's ineffective out wide.

That's just the reality