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Poor QB play throughout the league


Rhg1084

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6 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

So yes while everyone here is saying “Zach Wilson stinks”! Guess who else stinks? All these guys:

Mac Jones

Matt Ryan

Ryan Tannehill

Trevor Lawrence 

Kenny Pickett

Jacoby Brissett

Justin Herbert

Russell Wilson

Jimmy Garrapollo

Trey Lance

Matthew Stafford

Kyler Murray

Aaron Rodgers

Jarred Goff

Justin Fields

Tyler Henicke/Carson Wentz

Tom Brady

Baker Mayfield

Sam Darnold

Marcus Mariotta

 

They’re all better than Zach. Even Fields. 

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Just now, heymangold said:

This team almost lost to BRETT RYPIEN.  He looked more competent throwing the ball than Zach.  Kenny Pickett looked better throwing last night. 

Almost lost? Rypien couldn’t do anything against our defense. Pickett threw 3 INTs against us and threw another 3 INTs last night too lol

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Just now, Rhg1084 said:

Almost lost? Rypien couldn’t do anything against our defense. Pickett threw 3 INTs against us and threw another 3 INTs last night too lol

Pickett wouldn’t be asked to do much on this team. He’s better than Zach despite the turnovers. 

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22 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

yes everyone here is hyper focused on Zach however there’s a bunch of bad QB play going on throughout the whole league right now. Zach is still coming into his own and will be fine. 

I'm not sure because there is poor QB play in the NFL Zach will be fine is a logical conclusion.   QB play is down in the NFL you would expect Zach's numbers on a comparative basis would look a lot better if he was progressing at all. 

I'm hopeful Zach will be fine.  I'm not sure this is evidence that he will be fine or evidence that he's worse on a comparative basis in a down year for QB's?

I'm more in the camp that I've seen him manage games better with less turnovers and I'm hopeful that he continues to develop even though development isn't always linear and a stinker like yesterday may not be something to be concerned about. 

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I think the NFL as a whole is swinging back towards the run game. Passing will always be effective but teams have found success with 2 High shell looks and increasingly athletic LBs. Once the defense catches up to the offense, the offense has to change. If defensive coordinators have used small linebackers, nickel defenses, and quick D lineman who can't plug a gap to stop the pass, it's time to run the ball again. That is exactly what we have seen with Breece this season. The Giants and Eagles have one loss between them because they keep the ball on the ground. Seattle is having success with KWalker and the Titans are on a win streak with Henry. Even with Tua back the Dolphins have found the most success with mostert.

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1 minute ago, Biggs said:

I'm not sure because there is poor QB play in the NFL Zach will be fine is a logical conclusion.   QB play is down in the NFL you would expect Zach's numbers on a comparative basis would look a lot better if he was progressing at all. 

I'm hopeful Zach will be fine.  I'm not sure this is evidence that he will be fine or evidence that he's worse on a comparative basis in a down year for QB's?

I'm more in the camp that I've seen him manage games better with less turnovers and I'm hopeful that he continues to develop even though development isn't always linear and a stinker like yesterday may not be something to be concerned about. 

I’m not necessarily saying “he’ll be fine”. I hope he will as he continues to grow into his role. The point of this post is to everyone saying we need to replace him or bring in “competition” next year. Who the heck we gonna replace him with lol

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20 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Almost lost? Rypien couldn’t do anything against our defense. Pickett threw 3 INTs against us and threw another 3 INTs last night too lol

I mean it took the jets a 4th down stop against both teams to secure a win, I’d qualify that as almost losing.

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The thing about QB play in the NFL currently is that for the past decade, maybe more, while the league evolved into a “passing is all that matters league” we fans took the stance that QB is all that matters.  Now, things are slowly shifting back the other direction and teams can win without a QB throwing for 400 and 4TDs every game. Can a team win it all without the elite QB?  Time will tell

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45 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

yes everyone here is hyper focused on Zach however there’s a bunch of bad QB play going on throughout the whole league right now. Zach is still coming into his own and will be fine. 

Some of this can be chalked up to poor playcalling and use of the run game. OCs across the league appear to have forgotten the benefits of establishing the run 

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Other QB's performing poorly is not a reason to feel any better about Zach Wilson.  This argument was prevalent during the Darnold era too.  Who cares how the other guys are doing?  

Even still, here's how Zach ranks across the league (34 qualified passers):

  • Completion %:  57.4 (32nd)
    • Ranked behind:  Jacoby Brissett (62.7); Carson Wentz (62.1); Marcus Mariota (61.3); Mitchell Trubisky (60.9) @jgb; Joe Flacco (58.7); Cooper Rush (57.7)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Baker Mayfield (54.9); Justin Fields (54.8)  @Irish Jet
  • TD %:  1.0 (34th - last)
    • Ranked behind:  Justin Fields (3.5); Davis Mills (3.4); Daniel Jones (3.2); Joe Flacco (3.2); Cooper Rush (3.2); Matt Ryan (3.0); Jacoby Brissett (2.6); Baker Mayfield (2.6); Mitchell Trubisky (2.3); Kenny Pickett (1.6)
  • INT %:   1.9 (t-17th)
    • Ranked behind:  Mitchell Trubisky (1.6); Trevor Lawrence (1.6)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Jacoby Brissett (2.1); Davis Mills (2.4); Baker Mayfield (2.6)
  • YPA:  6.9 (19th)
    • Tied with:  Trevor Lawrence (6.9)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Jacoby Brissett (6.8); Matt Ryan (6.8); Daniel Jones (6.5); Cooper Rush (6.5); Davis Mills (6.5); Carson Wentz (6.4); Baker Mayfield (6.3)
  • Air Yards per Attempt:  6.2 (24th)
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (6.9); Daniel Jones (6.6); Justin Fields (6.3); Jacoby Brissett (6.3); Cooper Rush (6.3)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Mac Jones (6.2); Davis Mills (6.1); Matt Ryan (6.0); Mitchel Trubisky (6.0); Baker Mayfield (5.6)
  • Completed Air Yards per Pass Attempt:  3.1 (28th)
    • Ranked behind:  Matt Ryan (3.6); Kenny Pickett (3.6); Carson Wentz (3.4); Davis Mills (3.3); Daniel Jones (3.2); Joe Flacco (3.1)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Baker Mayfield (2.6)
  • Yards per Game:  173.3 (28th)
    • Ranked behind:  Jacoby Brissett (226.3); Davis Mills (225.0); Kenny Pickett (192.8); Baker Mayfield (192.4); Daniel Jones (174.7)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Cooper Rush (170.0); Marcus Mariota (168.4); Mitchell Trubisky (159.4); Justin Fields (144.8)
  • QB Rating:  73.6 (31st) 
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (88.9); Matt Ryan (84.7); Carson Wentz (84.1); Davis Mills (83.6); Jacoby Brissett (82.3); Cooper Rush (80.1); Joe Flacco (77.9)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Justin Fields (72.7); Baker Mayfield (71.9); Kenny Pickett (66.7)
  • QBR:  48.6 (21st)
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (52.1); Andy Dalton (51.0); Mitchell Trubisky (48.8)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Matt Ryan (42.0); Kenny Pickett (41.1); Davis Mills (36.0)

 

Zach has also benefitted from the 5th most YAC per completion (6.6) of all qualifying passers.  Now some of that may have to do with how well Zach is "leading" his passers.  But given his accuracy issues all season, it's a bit hard to make that claim.  

You'll notice in the above that his best stat is INT %.  That's the best thing he's doing according to his defenders; not throwing picks.  Even then, he's still middle of the pack in that category.  

Putrid numbers.

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Other QB's performing poorly is not a reason to feel any better about Zach Wilson.  This argument was prevalent during the Darnold era too.  Who cares how the other guys are doing?  

Even still, here's how Zach ranks across the league (34 qualified passers):

  • Completion %:  57.4 (32nd)
    • Ranked behind:  Jacoby Brissett (62.7); Carson Wentz (62.1); Marcus Mariota (61.3); Mitchell Trubisky (60.9) @jgb; Joe Flacco (58.7); Cooper Rush (57.7)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Baker Mayfield (54.9); Justin Fields (54.8)  @Irish Jet
  • TD %:  1.0 (34th - last)
    • Ranked behind:  Justin Fields (3.5); Davis Mills (3.4); Daniel Jones (3.2); Joe Flacco (3.2); Cooper Rush (3.2); Matt Ryan (3.0); Jacoby Brissett (2.6); Baker Mayfield (2.6); Mitchell Trubisky (2.3); Kenny Pickett (1.6)
  • INT %:   1.9 (t-17th)
    • Ranked behind:  Mitchell Trubisky (1.6); Trevor Lawrence (1.6)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Jacoby Brissett (2.1); Davis Mills (2.4); Baker Mayfield (2.6)
  • YPA:  6.9 (19th)
    • Tied with:  Trevor Lawrence (6.9)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Jacoby Brissett (6.8); Matt Ryan (6.8); Daniel Jones (6.5); Cooper Rush (6.5); Davis Mills (6.5); Carson Wentz (6.4); Baker Mayfield (6.3)
  • Air Yards per Attempt:  6.2 (24th)
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (6.9); Daniel Jones (6.6); Justin Fields (6.3); Jacoby Brissett (6.3); Cooper Rush (6.3)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Mac Jones (6.2); Davis Mills (6.1); Matt Ryan (6.0); Mitchel Trubisky (6.0); Baker Mayfield (5.6)
  • Completed Air Yards per Pass Attempt:  3.1 (28th)
    • Ranked behind:  Matt Ryan (3.6); Kenny Pickett (3.6); Carson Wentz (3.4); Davis Mills (3.3); Daniel Jones (3.2); Joe Flacco (3.1)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Baker Mayfield (2.6)
  • Yards per Game:  173.3 (28th)
    • Ranked behind:  Jacoby Brissett (226.3); Davis Mills (225.0); Kenny Pickett (192.8); Baker Mayfield (192.4); Daniel Jones (174.7)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Cooper Rush (170.0); Marcus Mariota (168.4); Mitchell Trubisky (159.4); Justin Fields (144.8)
  • QB Rating:  73.6 (31st) 
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (88.9); Matt Ryan (84.7); Carson Wentz (84.1); Davis Mills (83.6); Jacoby Brissett (82.3); Cooper Rush (80.1); Joe Flacco (77.9)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Justin Fields (72.7); Baker Mayfield (71.9); Kenny Pickett (66.7)
  • QBR:  48.6 (21st)
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (52.1); Andy Dalton (51.0); Mitchell Trubisky (48.8)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Matt Ryan (42.0); Kenny Pickett (41.1); Davis Mills (36.0)

 

Zach has also benefitted from the 5th most YAC per completion (6.6) of all qualifying passers.  Now some of that may have to do with how well Zach is "leading" his passers.  But given his accuracy issues all season, it's a bit hard to make that claim.  

You'll notice in the above that his best stat is INT %.  That's the best thing he's doing according to his defenders; not throwing picks.  Even then, he's still middle of the pack in that category.  

Putrid numbers.

Ok the point of this was who the heck are we going to replace Zach with? The only reason Sam got replaced is cause we had the 2nd overall pick otherwise he’d still be here. So like it or not Zach will be here for the foreseeable future as he grows into his role. 

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17 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Ok the point of this was who the heck are we going to replace Zach with? The only reason Sam got replaced is cause we had the 2nd overall pick otherwise he’d still be here. So like it or not Zach will be here for the foreseeable future as he grows into his role. 

Disagree. If he is the same guy end of season as he is right now, JD has no choice but to bring in a vet by hook or by crook.

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24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Other QB's performing poorly is not a reason to feel any better about Zach Wilson.  This argument was prevalent during the Darnold era too.  Who cares how the other guys are doing?  

Even still, here's how Zach ranks across the league (34 qualified passers):

  • Completion %:  57.4 (32nd)
    • Ranked behind:  Jacoby Brissett (62.7); Carson Wentz (62.1); Marcus Mariota (61.3); Mitchell Trubisky (60.9) @jgb; Joe Flacco (58.7); Cooper Rush (57.7)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Baker Mayfield (54.9); Justin Fields (54.8)  @Irish Jet
  • TD %:  1.0 (34th - last)
    • Ranked behind:  Justin Fields (3.5); Davis Mills (3.4); Daniel Jones (3.2); Joe Flacco (3.2); Cooper Rush (3.2); Matt Ryan (3.0); Jacoby Brissett (2.6); Baker Mayfield (2.6); Mitchell Trubisky (2.3); Kenny Pickett (1.6)
  • INT %:   1.9 (t-17th)
    • Ranked behind:  Mitchell Trubisky (1.6); Trevor Lawrence (1.6)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Jacoby Brissett (2.1); Davis Mills (2.4); Baker Mayfield (2.6)
  • YPA:  6.9 (19th)
    • Tied with:  Trevor Lawrence (6.9)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Jacoby Brissett (6.8); Matt Ryan (6.8); Daniel Jones (6.5); Cooper Rush (6.5); Davis Mills (6.5); Carson Wentz (6.4); Baker Mayfield (6.3)
  • Air Yards per Attempt:  6.2 (24th)
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (6.9); Daniel Jones (6.6); Justin Fields (6.3); Jacoby Brissett (6.3); Cooper Rush (6.3)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Mac Jones (6.2); Davis Mills (6.1); Matt Ryan (6.0); Mitchel Trubisky (6.0); Baker Mayfield (5.6)
  • Completed Air Yards per Pass Attempt:  3.1 (28th)
    • Ranked behind:  Matt Ryan (3.6); Kenny Pickett (3.6); Carson Wentz (3.4); Davis Mills (3.3); Daniel Jones (3.2); Joe Flacco (3.1)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Baker Mayfield (2.6)
  • Yards per Game:  173.3 (28th)
    • Ranked behind:  Jacoby Brissett (226.3); Davis Mills (225.0); Kenny Pickett (192.8); Baker Mayfield (192.4); Daniel Jones (174.7)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Cooper Rush (170.0); Marcus Mariota (168.4); Mitchell Trubisky (159.4); Justin Fields (144.8)
  • QB Rating:  73.6 (31st) 
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (88.9); Matt Ryan (84.7); Carson Wentz (84.1); Davis Mills (83.6); Jacoby Brissett (82.3); Cooper Rush (80.1); Joe Flacco (77.9)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Justin Fields (72.7); Baker Mayfield (71.9); Kenny Pickett (66.7)
  • QBR:  48.6 (21st)
    • Ranked behind:  Trevor Lawrence (52.1); Andy Dalton (51.0); Mitchell Trubisky (48.8)
    • Ranked just ahead of:  Matt Ryan (42.0); Kenny Pickett (41.1); Davis Mills (36.0)

 

Zach has also benefitted from the 5th most YAC per completion (6.6) of all qualifying passers.  Now some of that may have to do with how well Zach is "leading" his passers.  But given his accuracy issues all season, it's a bit hard to make that claim.  

You'll notice in the above that his best stat is INT %.  That's the best thing he's doing according to his defenders; not throwing picks.  Even then, he's still middle of the pack in that category.  

Putrid numbers.

But eye test

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5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Disagree. If he is the same guy end of season as he is right now, JD has no choice but to bring in a vet by hook or by crook.

Ok your choices are Baker, Sam, Andy Dalton, Brissett, Bridgewater 

Again - Zach will def be the starting QB next year 

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31 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Ok the point of this was who the heck are we going to replace Zach with? The only reason Sam got replaced is cause we had the 2nd overall pick otherwise he’d still be here. So like it or not Zach will be here for the foreseeable future as he grows into his role. 

You also said the below in the OP so how was I supposed to know that the above was your point?

  

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:
Zach is still coming into his own and will be fine. 

 

Even with putrid QB play across the league, Zach is still bad.  I'd love to know what signs you have noticed to suggest he's "coming into his own"?

Even then, if you want an answer to the "who are we going to replace him with" should Wilson continue down this path, I have a few thoughts on what to do there:

  • Draft one (early or mid rounds, doesn't matter much to me as long as its in that round 1-4 range) PLUS add one of the following: 
    • Jimmy Garoppolo (scheduled UFA after the season)
    • Aaron Rodgers (via trade)
    • Teddy Bridgewater (UFA)
    • Gardner Minshew (UFA)
    • Geno Smith (UFA)

I get that Wilson isn't going to be jettisoned from the roster any time soon.  But whatever Douglas decides to do, Zach Wilson cannot be the unquestioned QB1 for this team heading into 2023 unless he has a massive turnaround the 2nd half of the season. 

Adding 1-2 legitimate QB1 options to the QB room needs to be a priority, and Wilson should not be the guaranteed Week 1 starter.

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5 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Those are the possible free agents next year so yes those are the choices. And maybe your take those guys over Zach but JD or Saleh won’t 

If Zach Wilson keeps throwing for 100 yards a game and shows no improvement I'd love to hear the justification by JD or Saleh not to bring in any new QB's.  

These guys aren't dumb.  They're not going to tie their careers to Zach Wilson if he continues to suck. 

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