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Elijah --> Moore time in the slot.


Paradis
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40 minutes ago, slats said:

Maybe we’re not using the same definitions… ? The X lines up on the LOS, making that the place where I’d line up my big body receiver. The Z lines up on the other side, off the line, better for my shiftier/smaller receiver, and the Y  is either the TE or the slot - so I’m agreeing that Moore’s natural fit would be there, even though he expressed a desire not to be labeled a slot receiver. 

Im not sure where the notion that Moore is purely a slot receiver came from.

He did his best work at the end of last season as an outside wr, and it was based on that late season uptick in production that had everybody thinking that he d have a great season this year.

Nobody said “ If Moore was playing inside , he d be a star”-  They just said he d be a star.

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40 minutes ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Much better fit for Moore and I could see Wilson getting his fair share of targets at the X still because he creates better separation and a bigger target which seems to be important to ZW. 
 

honestly I just don’t think Zach has confidence throwing to a shorter receiver when throwing deep. Maybe shorter players appear more covered than they are with those types of plays. Either way Elijah is an immature ass but he sorta did have a reason to speak up on his usage - he just did it  terribly  

 

A lot of EM usage doesn't make sense. 

 

- to play, WRS gotta know all spots. EM plays, so he knows all spots.

- coming out, EM was referred to by many as "more of a slot guy" in terms of his measureables... but many people did qualify that with "I think he can ALSO be effective outside". As a small shifty quick explosive guy, the slot screams for his abilities. 

- These two (EM ZWilson) come from the same draft, and we have all seen the PR stuff about "growing together" etc... and commonly said is "rookie qbs often time like big targets in the middle of the field" (TE or else). What EM is... is a small target, far away alot of times (to dumb it down) 

Doesn't seem like a good formula putting EM outside, when GW can fit that spot better.

GW outside, EM slot > GW slot, EM outside (EVEN if GW is better at both spots).

Height difference, go get the ball vertically ability, contested catches, these are much more required as an outside WR, so why is EM out there? Those traits aren't EM's dominant skills... 

- Plus to piggyback, zach (IMO) is scared/overwhelmed alot. He relies on his big target when sh*t his the fan. makes total sense. No room for error throwing a timing pattern in crunch time 10-20+ yards down field to a short WR, who aint great with catch radius, who doesn't hit his spots on time as often as he should. I bet Zach don't even look EM way on 3rd and longs...

Sorry, MLF has some good qualities, and plays... but alot of what we are doing doesn't make sense to me. He has looked much better the last 4 weeks, but he is still a second year OC and has a long way to go. Slide EM in the slot, feed him the ball, get GW on the outside DESTROYING the CB's ankles like he did Vs cleveland... move them around to mix it up... 

Instead, MLF will run a jet sweep to EM that everyone in the stadium knows is coming and gets tackled for a loss. HUGE GAME FOR ZW and MLF sunday.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Maybe we’re not using the same definitions… ? The X lines up on the LOS, making that the place where I’d line up my big body receiver. The Z lines up on the other side, off the line, better for my shiftier/smaller receiver, and the Y  is either the TE or the slot - so I’m agreeing that Moore’s natural fit would be there, even though he expressed a desire not to be labeled a slot receiver. 

Apparently he expresses a lot of desires... Anyway, labels aside, he was poorly cast in the boundary role. That was supposed to be Mims but wound up being Corey Davis at split-end, and in 2 WR sets (imo) probably should G Wilson (tho i understand some rotation will happen)... But Wilson is better talent overall in terms of the route tree at flanker. We should running more 3 WR sets now with Breece out. Single back formation back packages. 

 

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1 hour ago, Chewy and the Jets said:

I like it in on  few fronts. 

Maybe it would also be a good idea to alter his play design: start gong no huddle to get the QB into a rhythm early and maybe take advantage of his athleticism by moving him out of the pocket (voluntarily as opposed to running for his life) especially given our injury plagued offensive line.  It worked pretty well for Justin Fields against the Patriots on Monday night."

Bingo! Been calling for this since last season.    

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Apparently he expresses a lot of desires... Anyway, labels aside, he was poorly cast in the boundary role. That was supposed to be Mims but wound up being Corey Davis at split-end, and in 2 WR sets (imo) probably should G Wilson (tho i understand some rotation will happen)... But Wilson is better talent overall in terms of the route tree at flanker. We should running more 3 WR sets now with Breece out. Single back formation back packages. 

 

I think Wilson is also better than Moore at contested catch situations, which are more frequent outside. 

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More and more I'm not liking our OC. Considering more time for Moore in the slot? That's his natural ******* spot. Nepotism is everywhere, and it's why numerous institutions are falling apart. This isn't rocket science it's chess, and you play with what you have on the board not what you want. Bishops are not rooks which are not knights... Mims should be blocking and running routes down the sideline until he gets better at other stuff. Moore should be playing in the slot (he isn't going to grow another 5 inches), and the OC should at worst run formations with two slot wrs if need be at times to get guys on the field, and create mismatches. The OC is the orchestrator, and he's supposed to be this young genius we're going to lose to a HC position, but he hasn't shown me sh*t to this point. None of this excuses Moore running his keyboard.     

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24 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I seem to recall that Moore didn't want to be a slot WR and envisioned himself as an outside WR.

Yeah, and I envisioned being the starting TE for the Jets. sh*t happens. He's too short to regularly be effective long term on the outside in a league with more and more CBs over 6' who are also athletic. It makes it a much more difficult throw at those angles with him being shorter as opposed to slot routes which is what he is built for.

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5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

To be fair, I thought Moore wanted to be a complete WR, not just a slot guy. 

He did.  He insisted on not being a slot guy last year. 

Problem is he should've been the Z not the X. 

The Z's go in motion and line up off the line.  The X's are in constant man press. 

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Article about the Niner offense which is very close to what we're running:

 

https://www.ninersnation.com/2019/6/10/18659578/clearing-up-the-differences-between-the-x-and-z-receivers

Now the Z on the other hand is off the line scrimmage and usually on the same side of the formation as the Y/slot receiver and/or TE(who is also called Y in 2 receiver formations). He lines up off the line scrimmage and can be motioned across the formation. This guy IS usually your speed demon because you want him to draw coverage away from your underneath Y routes. But still must have the requisite toughness to do the intermediate stuff. Now as I said you usually want your X to be your best receiver but some teams do it differently with Tyreek Hill and Brandon Cooks being prime examples of the Z being the main threat.

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If you actually watch the presser this article is misleading....Hughes asked if Moore would see more time in the slot and Lefluer said " Yeah we always consider everything and every week is gonna be different".  Giant nothing burger somebody just needed some content for the day.

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37 minutes ago, undertow said:

If you actually watch the presser this article is misleading....Hughes asked if Moore would see more time in the slot and Lefluer said " Yeah we always consider everything and every week is gonna be different".  Giant nothing burger somebody just needed some content for the day.

 

Womp. Elijah Moore slot usage lasted us a few hours. 

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1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

To be fair, I thought Moore wanted to be a complete WR, not just a slot guy. 

 

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

It’s not like he was losing his matchups. The problem was didn’t run shallow routes, so he’s busting his ass going deep while Zach is running 30 back from the LOS.

Using your posts to highlight a few thoughts... Just because Moore "can" play outside, doesn't mean he should. His best mileage is elsewhere, not at X... To argue that, like I don't know what else to say. It's like saying; I want to flip my DEs and DTs in formation... I guess? Not the best move. 

He's not great outside threat. He wasn't in college. He hasn't been in the NFL... but this is about ego and $$.  I know the inside role wasn't overly prestigious, but its use in the 2010-present has been more dynamic/volume heavy... Those inside WRs play a huge role. I don't' know why he's so dead set against playing that position...

oh wait, I do know. Money.

The outside guys like Julio and AJ will always net more $$ than inside WRs... but they can also out-muscle/jump/play 6'0 200 corners with a safety draped over their necks.

 

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11 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

 

Womp. Elijah Moore slot usage lasted us a few hours. 

Haha how is Hughes correcting his own report when he was there and the one asking the question?  This is like when Hughes tried to break down the Corey Davis busted coverage TD vs the Browns and it went horribly wrong. lol

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34 minutes ago, undertow said:

Haha how is Hughes correcting his own report when he was there and the one asking the question?  This is like when Hughes tried to break down the Corey Davis busted coverage TD vs the Browns and it went horribly wrong. lol

The dude sucks at his job.

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1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

 

Womp. Elijah Moore slot usage lasted us a few hours. 

It’s all window dressing to preempt receiver anarchy. Literally the only spots on the field that Wilson is capable of completing a pass consistently is dead in front of his nose. Telling Moore he might get more “slot targets” is just a way of telling him that they’ll take him from a place where the QB can’t throw the ball and maybe put him in a place where the QB can sometimes throw a ball. 
 

 

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