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Elijah --> Moore time in the slot.


Paradis

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7 hours ago, slats said:

Maybe we’re not using the same definitions… ? The X lines up on the LOS, making that the place where I’d line up my big body receiver. The Z lines up on the other side, off the line, better for my shiftier/smaller receiver, and the Y  is either the TE or the slot - so I’m agreeing that Moore’s natural fit would be there, even though he expressed a desire not to be labeled a slot receiver. 

I think that's an illegal formation. Both X and Z (eligible outside receivers) - must be on the LOS and TE or Y/slot must be off the LOS.


https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/illegal-formation/


RULE 7 SECTION 5 ARTICLE 1. OFFENSIVE TEAM

The offensive team must be in compliance with the following at the snap:

 It must have seven or more players on the line (3-19)

 Eligible receivers must be on both ends of the line, and all of the players on the line between them must be  ineligible receivers

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8 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

I think that's an illegal formation. Both X and Z (eligible outside receivers) - must be on the LOS and TE or Y/slot must be off the LOS.


https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/illegal-formation/


RULE 7 SECTION 5 ARTICLE 1. OFFENSIVE TEAM

The offensive team must be in compliance with the following at the snap:

 It must have seven or more players on the line (3-19)

 Eligible receivers must be on both ends of the line, and all of the players on the line between them must be  ineligible receivers

Sorry, but you’re incorrect. The TE traditionally lines up on the line as the eligible receiver. If there’s a WR (the Z) outside of him, he needs to be behind the LOS for both players to be eligible. 

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27 minutes ago, slats said:

Sorry, but you’re incorrect. The TE traditionally lines up on the line as the eligible receiver. If there’s a WR (the Z) outside of him, he needs to be behind the LOS for both players to be eligible. 

No problem but I read it as "Eligible receivers must be on both ends of the line". That means the last guy on each side of the LOS must be eligible receivers and "all of the players on the line between them must be ineligible receivers".

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. If the TE lines up on the LOS he must be the last player lined up on that side of the ball as the TE is an eligible receiver.

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8 hours ago, slats said:

Sorry, but you’re incorrect. The TE traditionally lines up on the line as the eligible receiver. If there’s a WR (the Z) outside of him, he needs to be behind the LOS for both players to be eligible. 

Yep you're right - it makes more sense this morning after the edible wore off.

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17 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

wonder if he will figure out the whole calls plays where the player catches the ball with in 5 yards of the first down. I mean at or past the line woudl be good, but can we at least stop throwing behind the line of scrimmage with 8 to go.

 those throws are on Zach not Lefleur

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This is fine, as long as Garrett Wilson is good with moving outside more.  I'd hate to see us piss off our uber-talented, team-orientated rookie WR just to attempt to placate Elijah Moore, who already seems determined to be as annoying as possible until he is traded.

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I don't get the tone of the board on this topic.  What were the stats on snaps out of the slot?   Is it in here?  Doesn't everybody benefit from getting a more free release from the slot?  Yes, Moore is a smaller guy that is better suited to play there so doesn't get mugged on the line, but did Garrett Wilson suddenly become a prototype outside WR that is going to manhandle press?  Their top three this week are Wilson, Moore and Berrios.  You want Berrios at the X? 

When Flacco was QB there were articles about how even the distribution was and all we heard is that we were throwing too much.  Now we are running and winning and some people are actually acting like this malcontent has a point? 

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15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't get the tone of the board on this topic.  What were the stats on snaps out of the slot?   Is it in here?  Doesn't everybody benefit from getting a more free release from the slot?  Yes, Moore is a smaller guy that is better suited to play there so doesn't get mugged on the line, but did Garrett Wilson suddenly become a prototype outside WR that is going to manhandle press?  Their top three this week are Wilson, Moore and Berrios.  You want Berrios at the X? 

When Flacco was QB there were articles about how even the distribution was and all we heard is that we were throwing too much.  Now we are running and winning and some people are actually acting like this malcontent has a point? 

Lots of good points. I agree the heavy run game is why WRs probably feel under utilized. We’re winning because of the run game so i dont want to see us move away from it.

I think the issue is that we dont have a true down field threat. Corey Davis does his best work in the intermediate level. Berrios and Moore super power is in the short stuff. Wilson’s super power is yac. Yes, Wilson and Moore can beat guys deep (especially Wilson) but you take them away from their super powers. Davis isnt beating anyone in go route either. Really Mims is the guy but he hasn't shown anything. 

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6 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Lots of good points. I agree the heavy run game is why WRs probably feel under utilized. We’re winning because of the run game so i dont want to see us move away from it.

I think the issue is that we dont have a true down field threat. Corey Davis does his best work in the intermediate level. Berrios and Moore super power is in the short stuff. Wilson’s super power is yac. Yes, Wilson and Moore can beat guys deep (especially Wilson) but you take them away from their super powers. Davis isnt beating anyone in go route either. Really Mims is the guy but he hasn't shown anything. 

I remember when Mike White didn't do anything because Elijah Moore's super power was YAC. I think people are too worried about labels.  Go get open.  The deep jump ball is not something I want to scheme into being.  Let the scheme/vision dictate where the safety help will be and then go get open.  It's not that hard and you don't have to be 6'4" to catch a deep pass.  Moore, Wilson, and Smith are just as fast as Mims and I have more hope that two of them will be catching deep passes than Mims anyway.

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27 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

They are most def on lefleur

Watch the video, on numerous throws Zach had WR's wide open past the line to gain and still threw it underneath. Underneath routes are designed to draw attention. On one play you can see 2 WR's open 5 yards past the line to gain and Zach throwing to Wilson 5 yards before so no its not on Lefleur. 

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35 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I remember when Mike White didn't do anything because Elijah Moore's super power was YAC. I think people are too worried about labels.  Go get open.  The deep jump ball is not something I want to scheme into being.  Let the scheme/vision dictate where the safety help will be and then go get open.  It's not that hard and you don't have to be 6'4" to catch a deep pass.  Moore, Wilson, and Smith are just as fast as Mims and I have more hope that two of them will be catching deep passes than Mims anyway.

Deep passes are just bad percentage plays . They develop when you kill teams in the short game forcing Safeties into the box to help defend the short stuff or the run and forcing corners to play tighter to the WR. There's this misconception out there that deep passes clear sh*t out when in fact its the exact opposite, short plays open up the big plays later in the game especially when you have a lead.

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1 hour ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Moore is so overrated.  Trade him

Are you even paying attention ? Moore gets open at one of the best rates in the NFL how is he over rated ? Did you watch him last year ? With no other viable WR's on the field Moore was killing it before he got hurt so logic should tell you now that we have 4 legit WR's he should be open just as much if not moore. Our QB is just not good at getting the ball where it needs to go and throwing for 170 yards a game should make that clear. 3 + more completions a game puts him over 200 even with the good running game and that's not too much to ask from a guy who's completion percentage basically sucks. Also Keeping in mind when the Running game is working that's a QB's best friend but not in the case of Wilson

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2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Deep passes are just bad percentage plays . They develop when you kill teams in the short game forcing Safeties into the box to help defend the short stuff or the run and forcing corners to play tighter to the WR. There's this misconception out there that deep passes clear sh*t out when in fact its the exact opposite, short plays open up the big plays later in the game especially when you have a lead.

RIght.  The Dominator is not a burner (screen shot this, I will never admit it again) but put a fast corner on me and the old adage still applies.  If I'm even, I'm leavin'!  I think too many people look at the passing routes as if these areas are so defined, but IMO the real idea is just to spread the area the D has to cover so there is more free space. That isn't always just saying I ran a 60 yard go route so the underneath is open since that will take too much time both for the route and the ball to get there. 

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5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Are you even paying attention ? Moore gets open at one of the best rates in the NFL how is he over rated ? Did you watch him last year ? With no other viable WR's on the field Moore was killing it before he got hurt so logic should tell you now that we have 4 legit WR's he should be open just as much if not moore. Our QB is just not good at getting the ball where it needs to go and throwing for 170 yards a game should make that clear. 3 + more completions a game puts him over 200 even with the good running game and that's not too much to ask from a guy who's completion percentage basically sucks. Also Keeping in mind when the Running game is working that's a QB's best friend but not in the case of Wilson

On this, Pat Mahomes has the same depth of target as Jimmy Garoppolo. Josh Allen is dead in the middle for aDot. You know who leads the league in depth of target? Justin Fields and Marcus Mariota. Throwing deep is fun, but it’s not a viable staple for an offense. High-level QBing is about making your layups consistently. 

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3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

On this, Pat Mahomes has the same depth of target as Jimmy Garoppolo. Josh Allen is dead in the middle for aDot. You know who leads the league in depth of target? Justin Fields and Marcus Mariota. Throwing deep is fun, but it’s not a viable staple for an offense. High-level QBing is about making your layups consistently. 

Dinking for first downs and taking occasional deep shots is the way to win.

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20 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

So if davis is out Sunday does that mean mims plays?

Mims is definitely playing this Sunday. It may sound a little corny but I think Mims will get activated more often moving forward even when their receivers are healthy due to his elite run blocking. It'll probably be matchup specific but that's one thing he does extremely well 

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1 minute ago, football guy said:

Mims is definitely playing this Sunday. It may sound a little corny but I think Mims will get activated more often moving forward even when their receivers are healthy due to his elite run blocking. It'll probably be matchup specific but that's one thing he does extremely well 

So would they also have davis playing, along with moore?

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

On this, Pat Mahomes has the same depth of target as Jimmy Garoppolo. Josh Allen is dead in the middle for aDot. You know who leads the league in depth of target? Justin Fields and Marcus Mariota. Throwing deep is fun, but it’s not a viable staple for an offense. High-level QBing is about making your layups consistently. 

exactly ! Its about moving the chains, eating up clock, and letting your play makers make plays. To do this you need to be accurate and our QB is just terrible in the short passing game whether he just misses a WR or throws him out of his route rather than into it, Its always too high or behind the WR and he has absolutely zero touch on the football. I know people have their feeling about Mike White but Mike White runs this offense very well has great touch and the offense in general is much faster when he's QBing. Joe Flacco being on the roster is a giant waste of time. Now that we know the Jets feel they can compete for a playoff spot by aquiring a RB like they did Im pretty sure Zach's leash will start to shorten and putting in Flacco again would be a monumental mistake since the offense under him goes into super slo mo 

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A large part of the Problem IMO minus Elijah’s immaturity. Elijah simply isn’t a X reciever, esp at this stage in his career. GW has more experience on the boundary even if it may be tough for him to beat press man on the outside as a rook. If you can get Elijah going in the slot it would open up a lot more for this offense....

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18 hours ago, maury77 said:

I think Wilson is also better than Moore at contested catch situations, which are more frequent outside. 

Lightyears better......his catch radius is insane. He took a big hit climbing the ladder on a throw to the boundary in the Browns game(on a Flacco hospital ball). His footwork to get open in the slot is bordering on elite so that prob why they kept him there but you have to think about the other pieces on the chess board as well...

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29 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

If davis is playing are the jets going to play all of davis/mims/moore, since usually they are not all active.  

I think Mims will get more opportunities to be active even when Davis, Moore, Wilson, and Berrios are active. It will come down to matchup. Jeff Smith is a core player on kick coverage and punt returns, but the kick coverage snaps are replaceable considering how often it winds up being a touchback. So for instance, when facing a Bills team who rarely ever punts (11 times in 6 games), they may decide to keep Mims active and deactivate Smith if all their receivers are active. 

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15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s all window dressing to preempt receiver anarchy. Literally the only spots on the field that Wilson is capable of completing a pass consistently is dead in front of his nose. Telling Moore he might get more “slot targets” is just a way of telling him that they’ll take him from a place where the QB can’t throw the ball and maybe put him in a place where the QB can sometimes throw a ball. 
 

 

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But last week you were preaching that he never throws left? 

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21 hours ago, MARTIN said:

 

A lot of EM usage doesn't make sense. 

 

- to play, WRS gotta know all spots. EM plays, so he knows all spots.

- coming out, EM was referred to by many as "more of a slot guy" in terms of his measureables... but many people did qualify that with "I think he can ALSO be effective outside". As a small shifty quick explosive guy, the slot screams for his abilities. 

- These two (EM ZWilson) come from the same draft, and we have all seen the PR stuff about "growing together" etc... and commonly said is "rookie qbs often time like big targets in the middle of the field" (TE or else). What EM is... is a small target, far away alot of times (to dumb it down) 

Doesn't seem like a good formula putting EM outside, when GW can fit that spot better.

GW outside, EM slot > GW slot, EM outside (EVEN if GW is better at both spots).

Height difference, go get the ball vertically ability, contested catches, these are much more required as an outside WR, so why is EM out there? Those traits aren't EM's dominant skills... 

- Plus to piggyback, zach (IMO) is scared/overwhelmed alot. He relies on his big target when sh*t his the fan. makes total sense. No room for error throwing a timing pattern in crunch time 10-20+ yards down field to a short WR, who aint great with catch radius, who doesn't hit his spots on time as often as he should. I bet Zach don't even look EM way on 3rd and longs...

Sorry, MLF has some good qualities, and plays... but alot of what we are doing doesn't make sense to me. He has looked much better the last 4 weeks, but he is still a second year OC and has a long way to go. Slide EM in the slot, feed him the ball, get GW on the outside DESTROYING the CB's ankles like he did Vs cleveland... move them around to mix it up... 

Instead, MLF will run a jet sweep to EM that everyone in the stadium knows is coming and gets tackled for a loss. HUGE GAME FOR ZW and MLF sunday.

I think the reason they've been more Elijah outside vs Wilson is b/c Elijah is actually pretty good against press. You typically think of bigger guys being better off press but if you're quick/know what you're doing smaller guys (AB, Tyreek Hill) can get off of it just as much as a bigger WR. 

From Wilson's scouting report one of the things they said is he may struggle to beat press. I'm guessing they wanted Wilson more in the slot to start so he didn't need to add beating press to being a rookie WR, learning a new system, etc. 

 

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On 10/27/2022 at 2:56 PM, Bowles Movement said:

Im not sure where the notion that Moore is purely a slot receiver came from.

He did his best work at the end of last season as an outside wr, and it was based on that late season uptick in production that had everybody thinking that he d have a great season this year.

Nobody said “ If Moore was playing inside , he d be a star”-  They just said he d be a star.

When you are 5'9 and don't have Tryeek Hill type speed, it just makes sense to run routes that take advantage of your quickness and burst; more often than not, that is playing the slot position.   Look at his college tape and you will see him used all over the field including end arounds, slants and even some go routes.  Of course in the pros the athletes are better and faster and he is not getting the separation he was getting in college when playing on the outside.   It just makes sense to play him where he can maximize his advantages over the defense.  I can't for the life of me understand why LaFleur hasn't used him more creatively.  

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