The Post Game Zach Sucks Thread (merged)

[TuscanyTile2]

I think Zappe played better than Zippy today, and Zappe didn't play.

[gdfodder]

sh*t is getting weird:
[/url]  

Moore and Wilson propably prefer Flacco. Get him off team before major mutiny.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 minute ago, gdfodder said:

Moore and Wilson propably prefer Flacco. Get him off team before major mutiny.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I mean Garrett Wilson straight up gushed over Flacco throwing a ball that’s “more catchable”

Moore and White had a strong connection last year 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Lol

LOL Justin Fields would already be in the end zone here 

Acres of space for a free 1st down and maybe more

[choon328]

Lost in the wake of Wilson's knee injury in that preseason game was that in ZW's first drive of the preseason he chucked the ball up and got intercepted.  I knew then that he hadn't learned a damn thing from his rookie year. 

[neckdemon]

2 hours ago, elvispookie said:

I love this reply.. lol.. your ballsack. You from jersey bro? You sound like me and my friends in the 80s


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Lol. Yeah. Probably about the same age too

[roscoeword]

He especially sucks because he doesn't run for gravy first downs. The slow N. E. QB does.. And that's why we lose. We have sauce, but no gravy

[BornJetsFan1983]

10 hours ago, Mario said:

Nice knowing you Zach. 

It's crazy joe and Mike both win that game for us probably by two touch downs

[kdels62]

3 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

It's crazy joe and Mike both win that game for us probably by two touch downs

Joe Flacco was bad this year and Mike White spent all preseason being the 4th best qb on the roster. Zach sucked but let’s elevate other bad QBs.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Mike LaFleur is the wrong HC for Zach Wilson, AND Zach Wilson is the wrong QB. WIlson's fragility and lack of size takes away any planned runs and RPO. Noodle Knee would rush for 80 yards a game if they let him run. The downside is that he would get hurt more than he already does. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

14 hours ago, Facts said:

It’s time to call a spade a spade.

[Facts]

5 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

huh?

[Larz]

This is hilarious ???

 

 

[T0mShane]

19 hours ago, dbatesman said:

The “couple of things” comment is sticking in my craw. One thing we’ve seen is that Saleh just isn’t a cloak-and-dagger type. If something’s going on, you can always tell.

As for the #2 stuff, I think it’s just Occam’s razor: they’re frustrated with Wilson, and in the event he needs to sit, they’ve seen enough from Flacco to know he wouldn’t be much of an upgrade, while White offers at least some upside.

If you want a seriously wild left-field conspiracy theory, here’s something to chew on before bed: Wilson felt threatened by White’s run last year. His people pointedly suggested to the Jets that Flacco should be kept as the #2, presumably under the guise of him being a good mentor. The Jets went along with it because it’s a minor thing to placate the guy they figured was a franchise QB in the making, and because the entire organization has a baffling level of belief in Flacco anyway. Now there’s the real possibility of this undermanned, too-young-to-know-better outfit making the playoffs…but only if they hide said presumed franchise QB under a pile of coats. The more they ask said QB to do, the worse he gets. Their second best receiver is in open revolt over how much said QB sucks. And said QB’s public comments—specifically, his refusal to blame himself for today’s loss and his admission that, essentially, he gets bored playing smart football—while they technically took place after the depth chart move, may betray some attitudinal/maturity issues that have Saleh saying: guess what, princess, if you’re going to play like this, no more kid gloves. 

All of the preceding was pulled from the darkest recesses of my ass, but it’s Sunday night after a dispiriting loss, so 

I’ve been ruminating on this and I love it more today than I did yesterday, particularly the conspiracy angle wherein Team Wilson has lost any and all leverage they may have held over Douglas because the team is good enough that they don’t really have to bother with Wilson or his parents anymore. I also considered the Occam’s Razor part and fine-tuned it down even further—LaFleur is a receiver’s coach by trade, and Saleh saw his most success with a zero like Garoppolo playing QB. Which of the Jets QBs is most like Garoppolo? Mike White. Average arm, super popular, some grit, and stands in the pocket. And who spreads the ball around? Also Mike White. In The Mike White Game, four different receivers had over 60 yards receiving. Even in the Bills demolition, the ball was moving around to different receivers. Could be just as simple as Mike White being better for the vibes, and Saleh loves him some vibes. 

[Alentador31]

https://youtu.be/VOD7TBzhVZY

[GreenFish]

Didn't watch the game but just finished watching all of Zach Wilson's throws.

This game must have been frustrating to watch live. I saw the good and the bad. Basically Zach cannot handle pressure. There was this one play where he started to panic to something and there wasn't even pressure.

The good: You saw the talent. He had some money throws in this game. The 1st Conklin TD. And there were a few of other really good throws 

The bad: MY DUDE. STOP BACK PEDDLING at the first sign of pressure. STOP playing HERO Ball. He was out there throwing jump balls like we were down or the game was out of reach. Those were some of the worse INTs I've ever seen.

 

This game showed what the numbers have been saying. Zach is really good when not pressured. Zach is awful when pressured.

 

Coaches: The coaches have got to stop this hero ball. Like make is stop for the love all things green. My eyes started to bleed and I didn't even watch him play live. When he starts to scramble, it needs to be look for a "wide open" WR, if not look to run, if not throw it away. Simple. Trying to extend plays for like 5 minutes is killing us.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I’ve been ruminating on this and I love it more today than I did yesterday, particularly the conspiracy angle wherein Team Wilson has lost any and all leverage they may have held over Douglas because the team is good enough that they don’t really have to bother with Wilson or his parents anymore. I also considered the Occam’s Razor part and fine-tuned it down even further—LaFleur is a receiver’s coach by trade, and Saleh saw his most success with a zero like Garoppolo playing QB. Which of the Jets QBs is most like Garoppolo? Mike White. Average arm, super popular, some grit, and stands in the pocket. And who spreads the ball around? Also Mike White. In The Mike White Game, four different receivers had over 60 yards receiving. Even in the Bills demolition, the ball was moving around to different receivers. Could be just as simple as Mike White being better for the vibes, and Saleh loves him some vibes. 

Entirely possible. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to put together a defense this good, rebuild the OL on the fly (like four different times and counting!), put together the best skill-position group the franchise has seen in close to a decade, and then have your idiot QB throw you out of the game. The one thing that gives you pause is that White also turned the ball over a bunch when he got in last year, so you may be trading one problem for another. But there’s no question he played with significantly more poise and command of the offense, which means even his bad plays feel different than Wilson’s. I’ve held out hope for Zach for a while, but at this point you’d have to set the O/U on 2022 Mike White starts at, what, 5.5?

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

Didn't watch the game but just finished watching all of Zach Wilson's throws.

This game must have been frustrating to watch live. I saw the good and the bad. Basically Zach cannot handle pressure. There was this one play where he started to panic to something and there wasn't even pressure.

What scares me is that I don’t know if this can be fixed. Like, can a guy who’s league-worst at navigating pressure suddenly become ok (or even just less bad) at it? Is there any precedent for it? I’m honestly asking. 

[SuicidalSince98]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

Didn't watch the game but just finished watching all of Zach Wilson's throws.

This game must have been frustrating to watch live. I saw the good and the bad. Basically Zach cannot handle pressure. There was this one play where he started to panic to something and there wasn't even pressure.

The good: You saw the talent. He had some money throws in this game. The 1st Conklin TD. And there were a few of other really good throws 

The bad: MY DUDE. STOP BACK PEDDLING at the first sign of pressure. STOP playing HERO Ball. He was out there throwing jump balls like we were down or the game was out of reach. Those were some of the worse INTs I've ever seen.

 

This game showed what the numbers have been saying. Zach is really good when not pressured. Zach is awful when pressured.

 

Coaches: The coaches have got to stop this hero ball. Like make is stop for the love all things green. My eyes started to bleed and I didn't even watch him play live. When he starts to scramble, it needs to be look for a "wide open" WR, if not look to run, if not throw it away. Simple. Trying to extend plays for like 5 minutes is killing us.

How is it killing us? He always throws it away and before today has zero INTs doing that 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Entirely possible. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to put together a defense this good, rebuild the OL on the fly (like four different times and counting!), put together the best skill-position group the franchise has seen in close to a decade, and then have your idiot QB throw you out of the game. The one thing that gives you pause is that White also turned the ball over a bunch when he got in last year, so you may be trading one problem for another. But there’s no question he played with significantly more poise and command of the offense, which means even his bad plays feel different than Wilson’s. I’ve held out hope for Zach for a while, but at this point you’d have to set the O/U on 2022 Mike White starts at, what, 5.5?

I think Wilson is going to have to be SO BAD the next two games that it becomes untenable to keep sending him out there. I know he’s been consistently bad, but he’s going to have to throw up a few Rosen-type 50%/86 yards/2 INT games for this org to have the courage to pull that trigger. Benching Zach would be pretty seismic. RE: Mike White’s INTs—four came in one game against the Bills which obviously isn’t awesome, but I think it left a lasting impression as to what he’s capable of. I’m sure he’d throw picks, but not of the running-in-reverse, flip it up variety. IIRC, most of White’s picks came on throws downfield where his lack of velocity cost him.

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

What scares me is that I don’t know if this can be fixed. Like, can a guy who’s league-worst at navigating pressure suddenly become ok (or even just less bad) at it? Is there any precedent for it? I’m honestly asking. 

Not sure if you listen to this particular podcast, but Nate Tice and Robert Mays do a pretty detailed breakdown of Wilson’s biggest issue—pocket navigation—and neither of them were particularly hopeful. Starts at the 90:39 mark: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000584460117

[greenwave81]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

What scares me is that I don’t know if this can be fixed. Like, can a guy who’s league-worst at navigating pressure suddenly become ok (or even just less bad) at it? Is there any precedent for it? I’m honestly asking. 

Geno Smith says Hi!  

[GangGreened]

5 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Geno Smith says Hi!  

So we only have 9 or so years to go?

[Hael]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

What scares me is that I don’t know if this can be fixed. Like, can a guy who’s league-worst at navigating pressure suddenly become ok (or even just less bad) at it? Is there any precedent for it? I’m honestly asking. 

Will he ever be Tom Brady in the pocket (sensing detailed pressure and angles and making effortless micro adjustements to avoid sacks)?  Probably not..  Tom had that early and innate.  What he can learn is to be average at it.  Eg having confidence in his protection and stepping up in the pocket.  Mahomes isn’t necessarily great at this either, so its not necessarily the kiss of death.

Moreover, most young qbs struggle with the rush.   Thats b/c they dont quite have the tools to deal with it yet (which comes from detailed familiarity with presnap reads, and quick lightning decisions which comes from mastery of the playbook).  All that he can get better at.

ZW is really raw.  Like one of the most raw prospects ive ever seen.  This is not going to be a quick process bc there is a lot to learn.  People are acting like this is all coming out of left field.  It’s not, it was obvious since day 1 that this might be a bit rough for a few years.

[Maynard13]

25 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

So we only have 9 or so years to go?

Sounds good. And the good thing is in 9 years Zach will look like he's 21. 

[Hex]

4 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Basically Zach cannot handle pressure. There was this one play where he started to panic to something and there wasn't even pressure.

Ghosts?

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Hael said:

ZW is really raw.  Like one of the most raw prospects ive ever seen. 

Then why the f**k was he drafted # 2 overall in the first place?  And why was he the unquestioned starter right away? 

[Fantasy Island]

The Marihuana Regulation & Taxation Act (MRTA) was signed into law on March 31, 2021 legalizing adult-use cannabis (also known as marijuana, or recreational marijuana) in New York State.

 

Solution, get Zach high before he plays in the game.

It could not hurt.

Also burn all those alternate black uniforms.

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, Hex said:

Ghosts?

Not anymore, Halloween is over on the East Coast

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

LOL

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 hour ago, Fantasy Island said:

The Marihuana Regulation & Taxation Act (MRTA) was signed into law on March 31, 2021 legalizing adult-use cannabis (also known as marijuana, or recreational marijuana) in New York State.

Solution, get Zach high before he plays in the game.

It could not hurt.

Also burn all those alternate black uniforms.

Or induce some mental state in which he plays the entire game as if there are only 2 mins left 

It’s like the only time he doesn’t look completely lost

[dbatesman]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I think Wilson is going to have to be SO BAD the next two games that it becomes untenable to keep sending him out there. I know he’s been consistently bad, but he’s going to have to throw up a few Rosen-type 50%/86 yards/2 INT games for this org to have the courage to pull that trigger. Benching Zach would be pretty seismic. RE: Mike White’s INTs—four came in one game against the Bills which obviously isn’t awesome, but I think it left a lasting impression as to what he’s capable of. I’m sure he’d throw picks, but not of the running-in-reverse, flip it up variety. IIRC, most of White’s picks came on throws downfield where his lack of velocity cost him.

Not sure if you listen to this particular podcast, but Nate Tice and Robert Mays do a pretty detailed breakdown of Wilson’s biggest issue—pocket navigation—and neither of them were particularly hopeful. Starts at the 90:39 mark: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000584460117

You’re probably right, which is profoundly depressing. We aren’t the Bears, throwing away a season to accumulate picks and evaluate young guys. This team has talent right now—certainly enough to make the playoffs, enough even to win a playoff game as long as we don’t run into Buffalo or KC. I get that finding a QB is the first, second, and third job of a GM, but I really hope we don’t throw away this season chasing the dream that Wilson might be the guy.

The Athletic Football Show is great—I’ll give it a listen. For what it’s worth, they did a show right after the Bears-Commanders game where they both agreed that Fields was unfixable, and now he’s had back to back solid performances, so who knows.

[Jet Nut]

On 10/30/2022 at 5:31 PM, More Cowbell said:

Anyone who says anything critical of Zach gets a down vote from him, even if he isn't  involved in the discussion.  He blindly defends Zach. Anyone being critical of Zach during the winning streak was doing so because they knew a game like this was coming. He gave me a barf in this one only because he didn't  want to down vote me know that would prove my point but by doing that, he did just that. 

I gave you a barf because your mindless posting about what you think I do is making me sick.  As usual you overthink it and then miss the mark.  Put me on ignore and stop tagging me/bringing my name into discussions.  
Basically get a life

[More Cowbell]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

I gave you a barf because your mindless posting about what you think I do is making me sick.  As usual you overthink it and then miss the mark.  Put me on ignore and stop tagging me/bringing my name into discussions.  
Basically get a life

Dude, you are such a tool it isn't  even funny

[Jet Nut]

48 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Dude, you are such a tool it isn't  even funny

And you’re obsessed with me.  LOL.  

[More Cowbell]

59 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And you’re obsessed with me.  LOL.  

No, it's  called baiting you and you still have not spit the hook. You want to know what obsessed is, someone who was told he was being baited and just keeps nibbling at the lure.