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The only chance this team has to win a super bowl


SuicidalSince98
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7 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Is to be patient with Wilson and hope that he fulfills his potential 

mike white, veteran QB, puts us in wildcard one and done purgatory 

short term pain for long term gain 

Here's a fun fact; of the last 7 super bowls, 4 were won by FA veteran QB's who were picked up by their respective teams; Manning, Foles, Brady, Stafford. 

 

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For two years now, Zach Wilson has been the worst starting QB in the NFL. Generally when you do that, you do not get to keep starting without someone else getting a try.

What are you afraid of? If we start White at some point does it “ruin” Zach? Of course it doesn’t. But what it will do is help everyone evaluate Zach by comparison to how a JAG runs the team in his place. And it seems clear that some “Zach is more important than the team” fans are terrified White will look better than Zach.

Well, have no fear. Surely we’ll draft another “savior” at some point you can hype up and fawn over. Hopefully tho, the next one actually earns that with his play. Because Zach hasn’t.

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38 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Here's a fun fact; of the last 7 super bowls, 4 were won by FA veteran QB's who were picked up by their respective teams; Manning, Foles, Brady, Stafford. 

 

The rest were probably won by Brady in his original team, 

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34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

What are you afraid of? If we start White at some point does it “ruin” Zach?

I’m not sure you can even ruin something that’s already in ruins.

Wilson plays QB like a kid who has football ADD.

”Sure, I know that would have been the smart play.  But that’s boring.  I can make a play out of nothing.”

The kid has arm talent for sure but his game is a mess.

He hasn’t learned the fundamentals of how to play from the pocket.

LaFleur is trying to mask this with the run game and misdirection, shotgun RPO, designed rollouts and everything else.  But there’s only so much that can be done.

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8 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Is to be patient with Wilson and hope that he fulfills his potential 

mike white, veteran QB, puts us in wildcard one and done purgatory 

short term pain for long term gain 

So based on the second over all pick Zach gets the pass and 19 + games to prove his wealth while he embarrasses himself and  the organization but based on 2 .1 games Mike White is a lost cause ? 

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Zach is so far below the curve right now, he would need to take that so called leap just to be average. I think the biggest problem is how he senses pressure. It seems Zach stays in his spot until the rushers are basically inches away and then he does that hook move and has 2 or 3 rushers chasing him. I was watching how Rogers moves in the pocket and it's  like Rogers senses where the spacing in the pocket is moving to and just goes there. He isn't  really watching the pass rush, he is going to where the space opens to. It's  like the opposite of what Zach does. 

Until Zach develops a sense of how to move in the pocket without making the play into a firedrill, I don't  see how he executes a game plan. 

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13 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Zach doesn’t need to start in order to be developed. 

I'm not sure what's going to change with Zach, the guy plays like he's terrified of the rush. He's never had to face that before and while he does have physical talent, I'm not sure he's ever going to get over playing with pressure in the pocket and if you cant do that you can't play in the NFL.

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53 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Here's a fun fact; of the last 7 super bowls, 4 were won by FA veteran QB's who were picked up by their respective teams; Manning, Foles, Brady, Stafford. 

 

Who is the hof qb still in their prime who we are going to sign next year? You aren’t beating Mahomes or Allen with white or minshew 

 

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6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I'm not sure what's going to change with Zach, the guy plays like he's terrified of the rush. He's never had to face that before and while he does have physical talent, I'm not sure he's ever going to get over playing with pressure in the pocket and if you cant do that you can't play in the NFL.

No, I agree, but sitting him down gives you the chance to see if it can change with maturity. You simply can’t expect the things you’re describing to ‘go away’ in less than 2 years - especially since he misses games for injury.

Sit him down, let him grow, and separate the team’s chances for success from his growth. 

A kid being benched isn’t a career death sentence.

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15 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Who is the hof qb still in their prime who we are going to sign next year? You aren’t beating Mahomes or Allen with white or minshew 

 

I'm not sure, but do you think the Bucs thought they were getting Brady?   Broncos, Manning?  Think the Rams expected Stafford?  Russ sucks this year but who would have predicted him being traded?  sh*t happens.  I'd be perfectly fine with a Jimmy G. next year, or Jared Goff.  If we had one of them right now, I'd all but guarantee a playoff run.  

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8 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Is to be patient with Wilson and hope that he fulfills his potential 

mike white, veteran QB, puts us in wildcard one and done purgatory 

short term pain for long term gain 

This would be the reason he should have sat last year and given an opportunity to learn the system and reading defenses.

Just because Allen & Mahomes were able to adjust to the speed of the game on the fly, doesn't mean BYU ZW would be able to.

JD missed his opportunity to let ZW grow into the position. Now he's got "Deer in the headlight" syndrome AKA DARNOLD Dementia.

 

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24 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

 

More of the same ‘I’m rubber, you’re glue’ responses. Quality stuff.

Well my response is in reference to the fact somehow after 2+ games Mike White Sucks and is not afforded a chance and IMHO that's bullsh*t .

I'm not sure why one QB who plays within the system which is based on a short passing game does not get a chance after 2+ games but the other young QB who has all but completely sh*t the bed after 18 gets that chance based on draft status and physical ability.

This is not something that can be looked at blindly. Mike White is known to have a very good to above average arm but because he plays within the offensive scheme his arm is considered weak ?? That is just half assed analysis and only tells part of the story of why Mike White had some success which in 2+ games easily surpassed what Zach did his entire time playing. 

Mike White Runs this offense better than Zach Wilson in every single aspect, he negates the rush by getting the ball out quick and sliding in the pocket without the fear of getting hit. He does not have the speed of Zach nor the elite arm but he can make every throw, hits receivers in stride and avoids sacks by reading the defense and making the quick throws. Zach avoids the rush by turning away from the field of play running backwards 10-15 yards and losing touch with what's going on behind him which usually leads to a throw away. Even when Zach has the time he throws above and behind Receivers or into the ground. His accuracy is just plain bad and he has never exhibited any touch on the ball at all because he can not anticipate enough what the receiver will do because he's just too worried about the rush.

I'm not sure how you teach a QB to play in the pocket and make subtle moves to avoid the rush. I'm not sure how you teach a QB to understand that pushing DE's to the outside means you step up into the pocket keeping your eyes down field to make a play not turning and running back wards which puts your OL in an impossible position. If you play scared your always going to play scared and that's exactly what Wilson does. He wants to take the hits on his terms and he's terrified of getting blindsided something all QB's deal with at some point. He never had to deal with that fear in College having a superior OL vs Crappy opponents but now that he does have to deal with it its obvious he plays scared. If you think he can get past that I respect that opinion but its no easy task. I can go on and on at just how bad this kid plays the position but I think at this stage the proof is in the pudding teams know how to easily disrupt him and once we lost our superstar RB and teams like the Pats dropped 7 in coverage Wilson is clueless on how to throw the ball to covered WR's he has a hard time leading them because he has no confidence in himself to do so .

Giving a solid reason why you have an opinion makes all the difference blindly saying someone sucks after the amount of time Mike white has played deserves the response I gave.

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8 hours ago, Paradis said:

I'm saying that as your friend amigo. For real, forget all the jazz these last few weeks. Its over... He is not even SEEING the field. Total bust right now. Who knows what the next few years has in store for Zach, but its RIP for 2022. 

I think we're guaranteed to see Zach for at least another week. I don't think the Buffalo Bills are the team they want to turn to Mike White for, even if they should. Depending on how Zach looks against Buffalo, I wouldn't be surprised if they even give him a shot against the Pats again after the bye.

Then again, I never expected them to elevate Mike White to QB#2, so maybe they'll surprise me again.

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Unfortunately, the OP is right about Zach. While he clearly is struggling, if he doesn't become at least a top 20 QB (serviceable), this team is not going anywhere next. year. If he isn't the one, we have to go get another QB. That is going to take a lot of draft capital and/or cap money. This team while good has some serious holes, IMO, we desperately need a new, strong, and affordable C and G. We also need a faster LB and a FS. While before loosing AVT and Breece we were good enough to beat avg/good teams, we are not where we need to be to beat elite teams.

JD might be able to fill all/most of these holes in the offseason, he will not be able to do that and replace ZW, IMO. While it does NOT look good now, ZW is still young enough to turn it around. One bright spot is that BB always messes with young QBs, at least Zach didn't see Ghosts and it doesn't look like he was crushed emotionally like Sam was - Sam was never the same after that game. Long shot, yes, but Geno shows that it is possible to turn it around.

If you want the Jets to go to playoffs next year, root for ZW to turn it around.

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Zach isn’t developing as quickly as, well, anyone would like. He’s a talented kid, you’re right; however, the NFL is full of talented kids who just can’t hack it. Personally, I don’t think— and never thought— that this was the right offense for Zach. The choice of selecting him seemed so strange when you really think about his skillset and what MLF designs for the offense. Granted, everyone was new when the pick was made, but watching a LF offense and thinking about Zach in this offense was always odd to me. 
 

He’s not the last chance for this franchise to be a winner and moving on from him, at this point, would be prudent. He’s not improving that much at all. 

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Well my response is in reference to the fact somehow after 2+ games Mike White Sucks and is not afforded a chance and IMHO that's bullsh*t .

I'm not sure why one QB who plays within the system which is based on a short passing game does not get a chance after 2+ games but the other young QB who has all but completely sh*t the bed after 18 gets that chance based on draft status and physical ability.

This is not something that can be looked at blindly. Mike White is known to have a very good to above average arm but because he plays within the offensive scheme his arm is considered weak ?? That is just half assed analysis and only tells part of the story of why Mike White had some success which in 2+ games easily surpassed what Zach did his entire time playing. 

Mike White Runs this offense better than Zach Wilson in every single aspect, he negates the rush by getting the ball out quick and sliding in the pocket without the fear of getting hit. He does not have the speed of Zach nor the elite arm but he can make every throw, hits receivers in stride and avoids sacks by reading the defense and making the quick throws. Zach avoids the rush by turning away from the field of play running backwards 10-15 yards and losing touch with what's going on behind him which usually leads to a throw away. Even when Zach has the time he throws above and behind Receivers or into the ground. His accuracy is just plain bad and he has never exhibited any touch on the ball at all because he can not anticipate enough what the receiver will do because he's just too worried about the rush.

I'm not sure how you teach a QB to play in the pocket and make subtle moves to avoid the rush. I'm not sure how you teach a QB to understand that pushing DE's to the outside means you step up into the pocket keeping your eyes down field to make a play not turning and running back wards which puts your OL in an impossible position. If you play scared your always going to play scared and that's exactly what Wilson does. He wants to take the hits on his terms and he's terrified of getting blindsided something all QB's deal with at some point. He never had to deal with that fear in College having a superior OL vs Crappy opponents but now that he does have to deal with it its obvious he plays scared. If you think he can get past that I respect that opinion but its no easy task. I can go on and on at just how bad this kid plays the position but I think at this stage the proof is in the pudding teams know how to easily disrupt him and once we lost our superstar RB and teams like the Pats dropped 7 in coverage Wilson is clueless on how to throw the ball to covered WR's he has a hard time leading them because he has no confidence in himself to do so .

Giving a solid reason why you have an opinion makes all the difference blindly saying someone sucks after the amount of time Mike white has played deserves the response I gave.

I’m fully with you.

White lit it up. He had one bad performance vs the Bills and everyone cancels him. It was one of the better days by a QB vs. the Bills.

Zach sucks worse vs way worse competition on the regular and he gets excuses and a longer leash. 

Firget draft position. Play the guy that moves the team forward, then develop the other guys in the side - not at the expense of every other players short career. That’s the rift that is forming in the locker room and anyone who can’t see the signals is choosing ignorance.

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