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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

You (the QB Coach) signed the contract, you didn't deliver on your job on developing a QB. 

so its always the OC and not the QB? any QB can be coached is what your saying?

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

Zach needs to learn how to step up in the pocket. I guess LaFleur and Calabrese would rather drink Vanilla Chai Lattes than actually do their job.

Zach runs at the 1st sign of pressure. how are you supposed to teach him not to be afraid to get hit? 

some guys just dont get it. Manziel would still be here if that was the case. how come Josh Rosen never made it. 4 teams in 4 years and nobody was able to teach him anything? guess they were all horrible OCs who dont do their job. oh sorry Rosen got cut off the Browns PS on Oct 10 so thats 5 teams in 5 years.

these excuses for Zach get weaker and weaker. its always somebody else right. the OC, WRs, OL, HC,... but never Zach.

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28 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Hey, it's a slant/flat play to start a game.

Maybe, just maybe you don't F***ing call the same slant/flat play to start a game. I will hand to Zach, he didn't throw it to the slant for a pick 6.

That wasn't a slant,  it was a curl

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9 minutes ago, doitny said:

so its always the OC and not the QB? any QB can be coached is what your saying?

Zach runs at the 1st sign of pressure. how are you supposed to teach him not to be afraid to get hit? 

some guys just dont get it. Manziel would still be here if that was the case. how come Josh Rosen never made it. 4 teams in 4 years and nobody was able to teach him anything? guess they were all horrible OCs who dont do their job. oh sorry Rosen got cut off the Browns PS on Oct 10 so thats 5 teams in 5 years.

these excuses for Zach get weaker and weaker. its always somebody else right. the OC, WRs, OL, HC,... but never Zach.

I do blame the quarterback coach. Mostly because we barely have one. He's a yes man for LeFluer with the experience of a H.S. coach. We need a Pep Hamilton or I'd do anything to bring in Frank Reich if he's fired. 

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22 hours ago, Claymation said:

 

This is exactly why all offseason I kept saying, "I have no idea who Zach Wilson is" because he's not like he was supposed to be.  All the off script/off platform magic that he supposedly brings to the table, is really really bad.  It's when he's static and just lets it rip when he's at his best.  I think of the ball he threw to Cole last year in the Titans game, still to date, IMO the best throw of his career but you see it this year, Pitts was the example, put him in the pistol or gun, eliminate the drop back and all the comes with it, and he can be kind of good.  He's not anywhere near as accurate as advertised, another reason he's an enigma but he's more accurate in that setting at least..  Unfortunately, that just completely limits your playbook and you become rather easy to defend.

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1 hour ago, choon328 said:

I'm sorry but you can't have Mike White throw for 400 yds in his first ever start for the same exact HC and OC or Josh Johnson go 29/45 334 yds and 3 tds in his limited play for that same HC and OC and say that they're not capable of coaching a QB to have success in this system. ZW is the issue. You can't have statistical success with every other QB that has played for this OC in the last 25 games besides ZW and not come to the conclusion that it's Wilson who is the issue. 

You quote 2 games in 2 seasons . I wouldnt say having Flacco throw the ball 50 times a game is statistical success .

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2 hours ago, Claymation said:

You (the QB Coach) signed the contract, you didn't deliver on your job on developing a QB. 

How do you know he didn't succeed at developing a QB to the best of his ability?  Maybe this is all Zach Wilson and ever will be regardless of coaching?

Scapegoating coaches for awful QB play is lame.  Two decades of this nonsense in JetsLand.  Sure, there are bad OC's and position coaches out there.  But the QB's themselves get the big bucks for a reason.  They have to have some idea of how to play the position BEFORE they get to the pros.  Wilson doesn't.  

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3 hours ago, Claymation said:

Zach needs to learn how to step up in the pocket. I guess LaFleur and Calabrese would rather drink Vanilla Chai Lattes than actually do their job.

You think they're telling him to turn around and run backwards at the first sign of danger, and not telling him the correct thing to do?  Come the f**k on.  You act like these coaches have never been around the game at all. 

Wilson even admitted during his press conference that he's being instructed to throw the ball away when he doesn't see anyone but simple doesn't do it.  A sure sign he isn't listening to his coaches and wants to try to play hero ball instead.

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You think they're telling him to turn around and run backwards at the first sign of danger, and not telling him the correct thing to do?  Come the f**k on.  You act like these coaches have never been around the game at all. 

Wilson even admitted during his press conference that he's being instructed to throw the ball away when he doesn't see anyone but simple doesn't do it.  A sure sign he isn't listening to his coaches and wants to try to play hero ball instead.

Wtf? He’s been throwing it away endlessly all season. That was his entire point 

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2 hours ago, Claymation said:

Hey, it's a slant/flat play to start a game.

Maybe, just maybe you don't F***ing call the same slant/flat play to start a game. I will hand to Zach, he didn't throw it to the slant for a pick 6.

Slants are the only routes Wilson is able to complete with any consistency.  @Paradis

The biggest problem with the offense is QB execution.  Playcall/design really isn't on the radar.  "Calling the good plays" isn't what will fix what's wrong here.

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1 hour ago, doitny said:

these excuses for Zach get weaker and weaker. its always somebody else right. the OC, WRs, OL, HC,... but never Zach.

It's a JI/JN tradition.  At every turn, excuse the multi-millionaire QB who has no idea how to play the game.

It's certainly something other fanbases do but I'm sure Jets fans are some of the most egregious offenders at doing it without learning a single lesson from prior QBs' failures.

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56 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

You quote 2 games in 2 seasons . I wouldnt say having Flacco throw the ball 50 times a game is statistical success .

It's not, but neither is having Wilson throw 41 times this past week and complete less than 50 % of his throws with 3 godawful INTs.  Or throwing fewer than 40x over a 2-week period like he did against Miami and Green Bay.  

And yeah, some here keep pointing to the 355 yards against NE, but fail to attribute any of that to "garbage time", something people have loved to do to keep from crediting Josh Johnson for the Colts game last year or Flacco for some of his "garbage time" performances over the last few years.  For much of the game, Wilson was inept and struggling to get to the 200-yard mark despite all the throws. 

Nothing Wilson has done all season has been sustainable.  And it's quite sad that we're even comparing him to the likes of Flacco, White, and Josh Johnson.  He's supposed to be much better than those guy.  Instead he's been worse.

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On 10/31/2022 at 7:52 PM, bitonti said:

Mike white had 1 bad game against Buffalo 

Zach wilson has a bad game every game 

Agree..

Zach sucks.

You dont need more playing time to lead a receiver on a pattern. So much lost YAC (especially when we drafted twitch WRs/RBs to get YAC)

Belichick just gave NFL D plan,,smother WR1 on LOS cause Zach doesnt have balls to hang in poccket to get thru progressions.

He virtually never steps up in pocket under pressure, he does that Pop Warner curlyQ go back 35 yards move.

Admit mistake BUT dont draft another QB high. We have decent team and if we dont want to lose young talent to free agency we have to compete. Trade for veteran QB (I dont mean old folks home like Flacco) who can not panic and manage this team. Then let scouts draft a 4th round prospect they have faith in to mold.

 

THEY changed scheme to power run game to hide Zach inability to throw downfield.

Now watch the stacked boxes we see after Pats 2nd hald D strategy to throw Garrett to ground at LOS

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56 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not, but neither is having Wilson throw 41 times this past week and complete less than 50 % of his throws with 3 godawful INTs.  Or throwing fewer than 40x over a 2-week period like he did against Miami and Green Bay.  

And yeah, some here keep pointing to the 355 yards against NE, but fail to attribute any of that to "garbage time", something people have loved to do to keep from crediting Josh Johnson for the Colts game last year or Flacco for some of his "garbage time" performances over the last few years.  For much of the game, Wilson was inept and struggling to get to the 200-yard mark despite all the throws. 

Nothing Wilson has done all season has been sustainable.  And it's quite sad that we're even comparing him to the likes of Flacco, White, and Josh Johnson.  He's supposed to be much better than those guy.  Instead he's been worse.

what about those 2 flips to Garrett Wilson that they called a pass even though he was close enough to hand off to him. and one of them went for a nice chuck of yards.

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3 hours ago, choon328 said:

I'm sorry but you can't have Mike White throw for 400 yds in his first ever start for the same exact HC and OC or Josh Johnson go 29/45 334 yds and 3 tds in his limited play for that same HC and OC and say that they're not capable of coaching a QB to have success in this system. ZW is the issue. You can't have statistical success with every other QB that has played for this OC in the last 25 games besides ZW and not come to the conclusion that it's Wilson who is the issue. 

Well that’s it then. No more need be said. 

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

This is exactly why all offseason I kept saying, "I have no idea who Zach Wilson is" because he's not like he was supposed to be.  All the off script/off platform magic that he supposedly brings to the table, is really really bad.  It's when he's static and just lets it rip when he's at his best.  I think of the ball he threw to Cole last year in the Titans game, still to date, IMO the best throw of his career but you see it this year, Pitts was the example, put him in the pistol or gun, eliminate the drop back and all the comes with it, and he can be kind of good.  He's not anywhere near as accurate as advertised, another reason he's an enigma but he's more accurate in that setting at least..  Unfortunately, that just completely limits your playbook and you become rather easy to defend.

1000000000% 

the push back from diehards is nonsensical. The Zach Wilson pamphlet said “will get you out of 3rd and longs, and make incredible off platform throws” (the most en vogue overused expression in football ever).. 2 years later he’s the worst at those two things. We’ve literally never seen the advertised Zach Wilson. He’s awful at just about everything intuitive, improvisational, or requiring any modicum of anticipation. 

 

I hate our QB, and I hate hating our QB. It’s the worst self-propelling place of fandom to exist in. 

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19 hours ago, Paradis said:

Which tells you what the issue is (in theory if you trust your CS, which for now, I do).. it means the issue is the QB can’t do the things you’re speaking of. He can’t throw outside vs man. I’m serious. He’s not able to anticipate throwing windows. Half the playbook is useless right now. 

What do you consider his 1st TD pass to Conklin on Sunday ?

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5 hours ago, Claymation said:

Zach needs to learn how to step up in the pocket. I guess LaFleur and Calabrese would rather drink Vanilla Chai Lattes than actually do their job.

While I agree with you that he needs to step up and even run when presented the opportunity, there are times where the pocket doesn't exist almost immediately after snap.

Some want to bash Zach just because , but imagine White or Flacco behind this version of our Oline.  Zach has saved countless sacks but some view that as BYU hero ball nonsense. Agreed he has made poor throws and has backpeddled way too much , but those for the majority have simply yielded incompletions whereas Flacco or White behind center those become sacks or fumbles . 

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1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

What do you consider his 1st TD pass to Conklin on Sunday ?

a pre-determined read/throw to TE on a 5 yard out vs a trailing defender... 

in otherwords, baseline competency for the position. Not something you put in lightning bolt graphics on a pamphlet for a new Vacuum. 

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1 minute ago, Paradis said:

a pre-determined read/throw to TE a 5 yard out vs a LB... 

in otherwords, baseline competency for the position. Not something you put in lightning bolt graphics on a pamphlet for a new Vacuum. 

Yes , but thrown outside and showcased his arm and against a saftey No 24 - Josuah Bledsoe not a LB 

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10 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yes , but thrown outside and showcased his arm and against a saftey No 24 - Josuah Bledsoe not a LB 

too late, i fixed my post lol

doesn't matter, man. You quoted me saying what about "this throw" as though that rudimentary play by Wilson was somehow a retort to my post. And it isn't at all. He is not showing any of the intangibles/dynamic/moxy/talent that got him drafted at #2. 

If you have to hang a lantern on a 5 yard out vs trailing man coverage as proof of life -- then the fight is over. 

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8 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yes , but thrown outside and showcased his arm and against a saftey No 24 - Josuah Bledsoe not a LB 

also thats not "an outside" throw. You know what I'm talking about. Hitting your split end on man to man with back shoulder fades, stop and gos, corners etc. If they happen, it's by chance. 

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8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

also thats not "an outside" throw. You know what I'm talking about. Hitting your split end on man to man with back shoulder fades, stop and gos, corners etc. If they happen, it's by chance. 

Part and parcel of the offensive scheme  and the breakdown of the pocket /Oline , Those plays take longer to develop and this offense is more geared to WCO concepts . Doesn't mean they shouldn't and don't attack downfield , but it's not a staple of this offense. 

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2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Part and parcel of the offensive scheme  and the breakdown of the pocket /Oline , Those plays take longer to develop and this offense is more geared to WCO concepts . Doesn't mean they shouldn't and don't attack downfield , but it's not a staple of this offense. 

He's too inaccurate to run a quick passing game

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1 minute ago, choon328 said:

He's too inaccurate to run a quick passing game

Don't think that's necessarily true, his completion % is much higher on throws he gets out quickly from the pocket. A lot of that perception comes from his struggles last season with short passes , imo he's been much better in that area this year. The problem is Defenses will stack and congest the box especially w/o Hall and with the Oline issues . They still have to throw deep to loosen up the safeties and LB's but, this offense should thrive off of quick hitters. 

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1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Part and parcel of the offensive scheme  and the breakdown of the pocket /Oline , Those plays take longer to develop and this offense is more geared to WCO concepts . Doesn't mean they shouldn't and don't attack downfield , but it's not a staple of this offense. 

Sure. But again, he hasn’t been as advertised, to my point. This would be different if it was a case of taming the dragon. It is not. 

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23 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How do you know he didn't succeed at developing a QB to the best of his ability?  Maybe this is all Zach Wilson and ever will be regardless of coaching?

Scapegoating coaches for awful QB play is lame.  Two decades of this nonsense in JetsLand.  Sure, there are bad OC's and position coaches out there.  But the QB's themselves get the big bucks for a reason.  They have to have some idea of how to play the position BEFORE they get to the pros.  Wilson doesn't.  

Lame? In the last 10 years the Jets have had 1 OC that had experience. Chan Gailey. They had a journeymen as their QB that year and were a top 10 offense. 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You think they're telling him to turn around and run backwards at the first sign of danger, and not telling him the correct thing to do?  Come the f**k on.  You act like these coaches have never been around the game at all. 

Wilson even admitted during his press conference that he's being instructed to throw the ball away when he doesn't see anyone but simple doesn't do it.  A sure sign he isn't listening to his coaches and wants to try to play hero ball instead.

No they are too busy designing plays with 2 receivers in the same vicinity and wondering why he is pulling the trigger. Like where Conklin sat in the middle of the field with Garrett running a crosser in the Pats game. 

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

No they are too busy designing plays with 2 receivers in the same vicinity and wondering why he is pulling the trigger. Like where Conklin sat in the middle of the field with Garrett running a crosser in the Pats game. 

It's because Zach Wilson can only complete passes with any consistency to receivers who are right in front of him.  So might as well flood the middle of the field and hope Wilson gets it to one of em.

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

Lame? In the last 10 years the Jets have had 1 OC that had experience. Chan Gailey. They had a journeymen as their QB that year and were a top 10 offense. 

Yes, lame.  Blaming the OC every year when the QB sucks is lame.  It's an easy way to make yourself feel better when the Jets don't have a real QB.  

No one was complaining about LaFleur when they were busy screaming "4-0!!!!"  Now all of a sudden he's a problem.  Come the f**k on already.

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