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Time for one of Zach’s biggest supporters to admit doubt.


Hal N of Provo
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6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Exactly.  And wouldn't Jameis Winston's season a couple of years ago (something like 30 TDs and 30 INTs) look great if you only look at the "explosive pass plays"?

wtf is the criteria for "explosive" pass play anyway? for zach i would argue that it's just a pass that he actually completes. while watching a game with that scrub every time he drops back its almost jubilant when the pass just gets completed, seriously......maybe joe justy FEELS like they are explosive because of the common alternative of dirted, airmailed or intercepted "wing and a prayer balls this kid throws. or the other common outcome of watching that idiot run 20 yds backwards

btw, jameis winston would be a 100% upgrade at qb

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9 hours ago, Warfish said:

Sanchez, carried by a great roster to 8-7, 11-5 and 8-8 in games started his first three years, and himself played pretty great in the playoffs (oddly, far better than the regular season), which bough him all those later starts, career 56.6% comp, worse than 1:1 TD:INT ratio, 73.2 QB rating.  By all accounts, team should have ditched on him sooner, not later.  Bust QB.

Geno, remnants of Zach Era not so good, 12-18 in games started, 57.9% comp, worse than 1:1 TD:INT ratio, 72.4 QB Rating as a Jet.  Bust QB, at least as a Jet. Immaturity was fatal, glass jaw and tauting psycho's more so.

Darnold, worst rosters in Jets recent history, worst coach in recent history, oft' injured/missed time, 13-25 in games started, 59.8% comp (Best), 45:39 TD:INT ratio, best of this group and only one better than 1:1, 78.6 QB rating (best of this group).  All in all, the best of this bad group IMO.  

Wilson, pretty bad roster then a pretty good roster, oft' injured, missed time, 7-11 in games started, 55.4% Comp (worst of this group), worse than 1:1 TD:INT ratio (on par with Geno as worst in this group), 70.0 QB rating (worst in this group).

All of these guys are (or will be) bust QB's, Geno's late career miracle come back nonwithstanding.  Wilson is the worst of the lot so far, with NOT the worst rosters (not Sanchez-like, but far from what Darnold had to work with).  It's startling how Wilson has managed to be worse than these three, but he is.  All his supporters have is "elite arm talent", which boils down to "better than average arm, worse than anyones accuracy" in reality.

The Jets IMO, will be better off moving on from Wilson sooner rather than later.  This coming offseason, most likely.  He has not earned a year 3 with his play to-date.

The caveat of course is that Wilson himself can change this gloomy outlook.  He can play better, alot better.  His fate is in his hands, not mine.

But if he continues to be the worst QB out of this horror show lot of four busts, he can be tossed aside this offseason for another shot in someone else.

Can we see how he finishes the season first? 

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Also @Warfish Darnold had the best stats and turned in by far the best rookie year of the four. This was largely due to a great 4 game streak to end the season. In year 2 I’d contest that Darnold was very fortunate. He played a very weak schedule down the stretch and didn’t look impressive doing so. Conversely Zach is in the middle of a 7 game stretch against some really tough passing defenses. 
 

Not only did Sam not get better, but I’d argue he got worse. The more tape defensive coordinators had on him made him very easy to gameplan against. 

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33 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

9 explosive pass plays, lol is that a new metric/stats we are using now?? whats next? kinda not so bad level plays??. i don't give a sh*t how joe douglas tries to spin it. zach has sucked for 3 games in a row. he sucks and will continue to suck because he is sh*t as a player. 

Crying and stomping your feet Wah wah he sucks doesn’t make for very interesting conversation 

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3 minutes ago, Mario said:

Can we see how he finishes the season first? 

First before what? It’s not like I’ll be cutting him or making the decision on when to dump him. We’ll all be watching him the rest of the year like it or not.

Also doesn’t change that so far he’s the worst performer out of Sanchez, Geno, Darnold and Himself.

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If you watch the tape of college vs now, it's unbelievable the difference. I'm not saying he's the best college QB I've ever seen, but he wasn't this bad. I'm not sure what they are teaching him, but it sure isn't much. As I've stated, his fist lesson is to run forwards not backwards. I don't care if he takes a 7 yard sack, if it means, he's not 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage. If he escapes the pocket, then run forward, then decide to either go for it, slide, or throw it OOB's... Next he needs to be able to throw back shoulder, in stride with his receivers, and also anticipate the throw them open plays. He has to learn how to set his feet when he throws. These are all fundamental traits of a good QB. He displays none of them at this time, and I was a defender of his. He's quickly turning me into a non-believer.

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8 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

If you watch the tape of college vs now, it's unbelievable the difference. I'm not saying he's the best college QB I've ever seen, but he wasn't this bad. I'm not sure what they are teaching him, but it sure isn't much. As I've stated, his fist lesson is to run forwards not backwards. I don't care if he takes a 7 yard sack, if it means, he's not 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage. If he escapes the pocket, then run forward, then decide to either go for it, slide, or throw it OOB's... Next he needs to be able to throw back shoulder, in stride with his receivers, and also anticipate the throw them open plays. He has to learn how to set his feet when he throws. These are all fundamental traits of a good QB. He displays none of them at this time, and I was a defender of his. He's quickly turning myme into a non-believer.

Yesterday @Claymation and myself went back and forth a bit in a thread about firing Lafleur. My take was no and this was on Zach and possibly the QB coach. While I am still not sure it is Lafleur, I actually took the time to read his responses to my posts and understand the point of view he was bringing which is similiar to what you have posted above. Now I know it is an internet forum so actually reading and comprehending something someone else says is not allowed and the only reaction is to hit someone over the head repeatedly to prove your opinion is the correct one, but if you really look at it - it is becoming more apparent that the skill is there for this QB. 

He does not see the field, he runs backwards and he makes really questionable decisions. Is the issue he has no one truly helping him resolve these issues or is he stubborn and refuses to take the feedback?

No clue as to the answer for the above but his kid simply has too much talent to play the way he is.   

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We all (well almost all) can see Zach's biggest problem, and we all can conclude the solution is "step up into the pocket". We all agree that Zach's overall performance would improve if he does that.

Green means go, red means stop. Our brains get hardwired. You will never condition me to go on red, and stop on green. Well, something in Zach's brain is causing him to abandon the pocket, roll right and run around like a cat with a clothespin on his tail, and then toss the ball, to nobody in particular, hoping one of his team mates catches it. 

If the coaches actually get it through to Zach that he needs to stay in the pocket and execute the play as designed, and Zach actually listens, we will see him freeze up. It's like telling a batter to choke up on the bat, or move up in the box. He does it, becomes uncomfortable after a few swings, and resorts back to what he's comfortable doing, even though what he's doing doesn't bring much success.

Zach does what he is comfortable doing. He's not comfortable in the pocket. That's a huge problem and it's not solved simply by pointing it out and telling him to step up into the pocket.

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35 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

If you watch the tape of college vs now, it's unbelievable the difference. I'm not saying he's the best college QB I've ever seen, but he wasn't this bad.

I’d run for 1,000 yards and 10 TDs against my son’s pee wee team.

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i think we over value this roster and coaching as a whole here..there are only a few players who have pro bowl potential and the best offensive player (Breece) was lost for season. 

QB is a mess

OL is a mess

WRs are a mess - sans GW

RB by committee now featuring Ty who is a JAG (where is BAM please) - we lost to PATS because they could not run like they were with Breece rumbling 5/6 YPA

LBs/S are always exposed

Sauce is good - DPOY potential and Reed is good

Time will tell here as the rest of this season plays out but I don't have high hopes for the bunch.

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I will preface this by saying zacks numbers appear to be exactly what they were last year. 
 

2021 Comp % 55.6

2022 Comp % 54.9

2021 QB Rating 69.7

2022 QB Rating 71.0

Bad news is there’s been no significant progress. Good news is he’s only played 18 games, basically a full season. Expecting him to be a star out of the gate is unrealistic especially when he was considered one of the more “raw” QBs coming out in 2021. Zack will need another year to make a real judgment on him. The good things he does? Unteachable Escapability in the pocket. Very strong Arm. He can easily learn to quit making boneheaded throws after extending plays (his biggest nemesis right now imo. 
 

so take it from a dolphins fan who has a Ultra Mega Superstar QB that everyone wanted gone after 16 played games. 😌🤣Give Zack More Time!

 

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We’ve seen at times Zach adjusting his game and listening to the CS. He stuck with the running game before the Patriots game when it worked and very few turnovers I even thought the Jets were too conservative esp on the deep passing game. But he’s still inaccurate on short passes and it’s hard to understand. He’s bad on check downs and in this NFL that’s an important part of an offense. He has the big arm but he doesn’t know how to contain it esp on short plays. It’s a main cause for all the 3 and outs. 

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1 hour ago, Coquito said:

We all (well almost all) can see Zach's biggest problem, and we all can conclude the solution is "step up into the pocket". We all agree that Zach's overall performance would improve if he does that.

Green means go, red means stop. Our brains get hardwired. You will never condition me to go on red, and stop on green. Well, something in Zach's brain is causing him to abandon the pocket, roll right and run around like a cat with a clothespin on his tail, and then toss the ball, to nobody in particular, hoping one of his team mates catches it. 

If the coaches actually get it through to Zach that he needs to stay in the pocket and execute the play as designed, and Zach actually listens, we will see him freeze up. It's like telling a batter to choke up on the bat, or move up in the box. He does it, becomes uncomfortable after a few swings, and resorts back to what he's comfortable doing, even though what he's doing doesn't bring much success.

Zach does what he is comfortable doing. He's not comfortable in the pocket. That's a huge problem and it's not solved simply by pointing it out and telling him to step up into the pocket.

To play devils advocate, it might be easier for him to step up in the pocket if there was consistently one to step up into.

 

 

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2 hours ago, neckdemon said:

wtf is the criteria for "explosive" pass play anyway? for zach i would argue that it's just a pass that he actually completes. while watching a game with that scrub every time he drops back its almost jubilant when the pass just gets completed, seriously......maybe joe justy FEELS like they are explosive because of the common alternative of dirted, airmailed or intercepted "wing and a prayer balls this kid throws. or the other common outcome of watching that idiot run 20 yds backwards

btw, jameis winston would be a 100% upgrade at qb

An explosive play is a play over 20 yards 

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Zach is  a spoiled brat. He has the physical talents, but he feels entitled and does not have the mental makeup to play in this city or the league at this point.  He has been given everything his whole life, now has adversity; probably for the first time in his life and he cracks like an egg.

Buffalo is a very tough task, but if he comes out and does not look like a half way competent QB in this league, he gets yanked and I don't care how bad White sux for the rest of the game.

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33 minutes ago, Green Truth said:

Zach is  a spoiled brat. He has the physical talents, but he feels entitled and does not have the mental makeup to play in this city or the league at this point.  He has been given everything his whole life, now has adversity; probably for the first time in his life and he cracks like an egg.

Buffalo is a very tough task, but if he comes out and does not look like a half way competent QB in this league, he gets yanked and I don't care how bad White sux for the rest of the game.

You don’t care how bad white sucks? That doesn’t seem very rational. Sounds like you just have something against Wilson 

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What encourages me is that none of the 3 picks Zach threw seemed to be the result of him being fooled by NE’s defense. They really were him just being lazy & sloppy with his mechanics/decision making, which is a far more fixable issue. It’s not like the Darnold “ghosts” game where he just got fooled and baited all night. Zach’s issues are all very fixable if he’s willing to take to coaching, but that’s a BIG if at this point.

There is also still the issue of him flat out not seeing open receivers, or seeing them too late. Kid has a lot to work on at this point.

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6 minutes ago, fullblast said:

What encourages me is that none of the 3 picks Zach threw seemed to be the result of him being fooled by NE’s defense. They really were him just being lazy & sloppy with his mechanics/decision making, which is a far more fixable issue. It’s not like the Darnold “ghosts” game where he just got fooled and baited all night. Zach’s issues are all very fixable if he’s willing to take to coaching, but that’s a BIG if at this point.

There is also still the issue of him flat out not seeing open receivers, or seeing them too late. Kid has a lot to work on at this point.

It's A LOT of work for a team that's just about ready to start consistently competing for the playoffs. Now we gotta wait on the QB position.

Can just never be easy can it??

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49 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

You don’t care how bad white sucks? That doesn’t seem very rational. Sounds like you just have something against Wilson 

Meaning if White sux, it does not matter to me as long as this, Zach gets sat and has to learn to stop being selfish and trying to make the ESPN highlight plays when simple and boring is there for the taking.

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1 hour ago, dolphann4life said:

 

I will preface this by saying zacks numbers appear to be exactly what they were last year. 
 

2021 Comp % 55.6

2022 Comp % 54.9

2021 QB Rating 69.7

2022 QB Rating 71.0

Bad news is there’s been no significant progress. Good news is he’s only played 18 games, basically a full season. Expecting him to be a star out of the gate is unrealistic especially when he was considered one of the more “raw” QBs coming out in 2021. Zack will need another year to make a real judgment on him. The good things he does? Unteachable Escapability in the pocket. Very strong Arm. He can easily learn to quit making boneheaded throws after extending plays (his biggest nemesis right now imo. 
 

so take it from a dolphins fan who has a Ultra Mega Superstar QB that everyone wanted gone after 16 played games. 😌🤣Give Zack More Time!

 

Ultra mega superstar? Have you seen your QB play?

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