Josh Allen gives his opinion on Zach

[SuicidalSince98]

Just now, bitonti said:

let's walk this dog 

Zach is Steve Young part 2

Steve Young was a bust for Tampa. Let's start there. He had to go to a different team and sit forever before he got good.

If Zach is Steve Young that means Zach gets good in year 5 and when I mean good that's going 3-0 as Joe Montana's backup and completing closer to 70% instead of 50%. But still he's sitting most of the year. He basically starts 1 or 2 games a year for 4 years straight in that role. 

he doesn't make his first Pro Bowl until 1992 at the age of 31. He was drafted in 1985 at the age of 24

I mean honestly I can see that timeline - we're just talking about a Rich Gannon/Geno Smith type of decade in purgatory 

 

I’m simply showing you how idiotic that bill walsh “quote” is based on the fact that his own HOF qb doesn’t fit the criteria. 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

I’m simply showing you how idiotic that bill walsh “quote” is based on the fact that his own HOF qb doesn’t fit the criteria. 

Steve Young started 19 games in Tampa before he was signed as a backup in SFO 

so technically he had 1 game to spare hah 

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

I get it....Zach Wilson fans are holding on desperately. 

If you want to sit on the ledge a little longer, we will sit here.  I got all day.

You got all year and probably all next year.  Enjoy.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, munchmemory said:

@SuicidalSince98 Serious question:  Why are you so invested in Zach Wilson's success and reputation?  There were the same sort of fervent believers for Darnold, Sanchez, Geno, and even Hackenberg.   Unless this is a bit, it's just not worth your energy.

I'm invested because I'm a Jets fan and he's the QB this year and next.  By invested I want him to get a lot better.  

Why are you so invested in he's never going to be good?  If you're a Jets fan this year and next it seems like a crappy investment.

[munchmemory]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm invested because I'm a Jets fan and he's the QB this year and next.  By invested I want him to get a lot better.  

Why are you so invested in he's never going to be good?  If you're a Jets fan this year and next it seems like a crappy investment.

I'm not really invested at all.  Like you, it's just what I see.  Right now, Zach Wilson has shown nothing pointing towards success in the NFL. Difficult to accept for many, but it's there if you look honestly.

[Stark]

3 hours ago, fullblast said:

 

 

"That's really cool 3 interceptions against the patriots in year 2, just like you and look where you are now"   LOLOLOLOL

hell does he not realize Zach threw 4 the last season, ha

 

since when does throwing 3+ picks to the Patriots = dramatic turnaround ahead? my god this is getting dumb

 

Zach Wilson ≠ Josh Allen

nothing Josh Allen has done, whether poorly or positively, have any bearing or predictive indication for Zach.

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, munchmemory said:

I'm not really invested at all.  Like you, it's just what I see.  Right now, Zach Wilson has shown nothing pointing towards success in the NFL. Difficult to accept for many, but it's there if you look honestly.

Who cares.  I'm excited that the Jets are in November in the playoff hunt and a possible playoff spot.  Zach while sucking has a 4 and 1 record as a starter.  If for some reason he stops sucking we have a chance to be really good. 

I hope he's going to stop sucking and we win 9 to 11 games and go to the playoffs.  

There's a lot I like about him and there's a lot I don't like about his game.  Hope he gets better as the year goes on.   Might not.  I'm willing to watch it play out.  If you're not willing to watch it play out stop watching.

[doitny]

8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm invested because I'm a Jets fan and he's the QB this year and next.  By invested I want him to get a lot better.  

Why are you so invested in he's never going to be good?  If you're a Jets fan this year and next it seems like a crappy investment.

how long before your investment wanes? you cant tell me he gets 2023 no matter what. 

with 9 games left he is on pace to have the worst 2nd year of any 1st rd QB in the last 10 years. maybe even longer i just didnt go back that far. there is nobody to compare him to, to say look this guy had just as bad a year.

[August]

54 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

When White, Flacco and Strevler are your other options yes . 

If White or Streveler were number 2 picks then what? 

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

how long before your investment wanes? you cant tell me he gets 2023 no matter what. 

with 9 games left he is on pace to have the worst 2nd year of any 1st rd QB in the last 10 years. maybe even longer i just didnt go back that far. there is nobody to compare him to, to say look this guy had just as bad a year.

I've been a Jets fan since 1965.  I'm fully invested for the long term.  I'm not a day trader.

[munchmemory]

11 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Who cares.  I'm excited that the Jets are in November in the playoff hunt and a possible playoff spot.  Zach while sucking has a 4 and 1 record as a starter.  If for some reason he stops sucking we have a chance to be really good. 

I hope he's going to stop sucking and we win 9 to 11 games and go to the playoffs.  

There's a lot I like about him and there's a lot I don't like about his game.  Hope he gets better as the year goes on.   Might not.  I'm willing to watch it play out.  If you're not willing to watch it play out stop watching.

Why do you guys get so defensive about negative comments about players?  Right away it's "stop watching".   Or, "you're not a real fan".

Criticism, especially for the QB is part of the gig.   You just want to go along for the ride.  Fine.  Lots of us are not satisfied with that approach.  We're tired of seeing the same problems from the QBs we've drafted the last million years, but especially since 2009.    

And making the playoffs would be nice, since the JAG-minuses we've drafted or signed haven't led us there since 2010.   2010!!??  That's the work of the clown acts who were supposed to be QB/franchise saviors.   Good friggin' Lord, wake up.

[August]

55 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

I think in terms of raw talent he has. He is more raw than we had hoped and has some concerning issues with erratic accuracy

Not really. 

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, August said:

The only thing justifying his playing time right now is draft position. 

who would you prefer to start?

[Green Ghost]

7 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

I am a Jets fan. I see rare raw talent with Wilson. I see him succeeding as the best chance we have to find a FQB. I want to give him every opportunity to develop until a clear opportunity to upgrade appears. If we go 7-10 and Wilson sucks, and a QB we love is on the board in round 1 I would take him. 

I don’t see Flacco or white as rational options. We won’t win more games and the future is dead with them. Wilson is talented enough to be worth investing time to develop him. 
 

I also don’t see things as black and white as some of you. Wilson was raw coming out, more raw than we thought, and he’s faced the hardest defensive schedule in the NFL the last two years. I don’t throw away all the good he did last week because he threw some bone headed picks. I hope those things as correctable until it is determined that they are not. 

This might be the best post you’ve ever left here. Although I don’t agree with everything in your last paragraph, I understand and respect all the points you’re making..

What I don’t understand is why you can’t be this reasonable more often, instead of defaulting to the snarky comebacks you seem to prefer instead. If you did that, people might listen to you more instead of dismissing you.

[Biggs]

Just now, munchmemory said:

Why do you guys get so defensive about negative comments?  Right away it's "stop watching".   Or, "your not a real fan".

Criticism, especially for the QB is part of the gig.   You just want to go along for the ride.  Fine.  Lots of us are not satisfied with that approach.  We're tired of seeing the same problems from the QBs we've drafted the last million years, but especially since 2009.    

And making the playoffs would be nice, since the JAG-minuses we've drafted or signed haven't led us there since 2012.   2010!!??  That's the work of the clown acts who were supposed to be QB/franchise saviors.   Good friggin' Lord, wake up.

I don't know if it was you but someone used the term investment.   I get the critisism of Zach and a lot of it's justified.  The entitled, hate is where we part company.  I thought he was awful last Sunday.  I'm rooting for him to improve.  It's in my interest as a Jets fan.

I don't see any scenario other than injury where he's not our starting QB for the rest of this year a probably next.

 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Mario said:

How many explosives do you think ZW has on Sunday? 

[56mehl56]

6 minutes ago, August said:

If White or Streveler were number 2 picks then what? 

But they're not . 

[munchmemory]

Just now, Biggs said:

I don't know if it was you but someone used the term investment.   I get the critisism of Zach and a lot of it's justified.  The entitled, hate is where we part company.  I thought he was awful last Sunday.  I'm rooting for him to improve.  It's in my interest as a Jets fan.

I don't see any scenario other than injury where he's not our starting QB for the rest of this year a probably next.

 

WTF does "entitled hate" even mean?  I'm just watching our team and commenting on what I see and have seen.  I don't hate anyone on the team.  But I am mega-concerned and disappointed with it.   Good or bad, lots of us have been in the seats or in front of the TV hoping for success since the 1960s.  Often having to watch an inferior product by inept players who we were told were the right picks.  Any rational human beings would have departed this franchise decades ago.   But yet, we're still here praying for a change in direction.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

he’s faced the hardest defensive schedule in the NFL the last two years.

Color me interested to see that source 

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, munchmemory said:

WTF does "entitled hate" even mean?  I'm just watching our team and commenting on what I see and have seen.  I don't hate anyone on the team.  But I am mega-concerned and disappointed with it.   Good or bad, lots of us have been in the seats or in front of the TV hoping for success since the 1960s.  Often having to watch an inferior product by inept players who we were told were the right picks.  Any rational human beings would have departed this franchise decades ago.   But yet, we're still here praying for a change in direction.

The outright hatred of Zach and proven failure of Zach and even the defense of Moore based on Zach was pure entitlement and hate.

Make the argument intelligently and without malice toward the kid.  He's the QB of the team we follow.  Chances are very high that he bombs out.  If he doesn't it would be fantastic.

He's a draft pick.  It's not a sure thing.  If he bombs it sucks. It actually sucks more for him than it does for me.  

I'm very concerned.  I'm also watching the games on Sunday and I'm rooting for a better result.  If he fails, he's going to be gone at some point.  They always move on if it doesn't work out at some point.

[56mehl56]

11 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Why do you guys get so defensive about negative comments about players?  Right away it's "stop watching".   Or, "you're not a real fan".

Criticism, especially for the QB is part of the gig.   You just want to go along for the ride.  Fine.  Lots of us are not satisfied with that approach.  We're tired of seeing the same problems from the QBs we've drafted the last million years, but especially since 2009.    

And making the playoffs would be nice, since the JAG-minuses we've drafted or signed haven't led us there since 2010.   2010!!??  That's the work of the clown acts who were supposed to be QB/franchise saviors.   Good friggin' Lord, wake up.

Bottom line it doesn't matter what any of us think. Its the coaches and Jets management that have the only say in the matter.  We can choose to be fans anyway we want regardless of how unpopular those opinions are here. It just floors me that people/fans who spend all the time they do on these forums use it to be downright nasty and negative about something that supposedly love as fans. 

[SuicidalSince98]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Color me interested to see that source 

This is for last year 
 

this year 

GB/DEN/BUF are top 4 pass defenses 

[undertow]

2 hours ago, munchmemory said:

@SuicidalSince98 Serious question:  Why are you so invested in Zach Wilson's success and reputation?  There were the same sort of fervent believers for Darnold, Sanchez, Geno, and even Hackenberg.   Unless this is a bit, it's just not worth your energy.

That's like asking why the stadium is filled with middle aged men wearing number 2 jerseys....some of these fans hero worship these players it's not just a game or sport.

[carlito1171]

2 hours ago, GreenFish said:

He’s not wrong. Zach tries to do too much and needs to learn to take what the defense gives him. Even with all the bad, you can see the type of QB he can become if things click. Who knows if it will click. But he’s a guy who can beat you from the pocket with a strong arm and quick release. If things collapse, he can scramble and gain some yards with his legs.

He’s a different type of QB than Allen, but his point is that he needs to learn to take what the defense gives him. Time will tell if he will learn. Right now, things do not look promising on that front.

One of the biggest issues with Zach is he refuses to climb the pocket and keep his eyes down the field....he’s not calm enough to continue scanning the field when the pressure is on so teams are gonna continue to light him up....not sure what the disconnect is and not sure if he ever corrects it.....

[56mehl56]

Just now, undertow said:

That's like asking why the stadium is filled with middle aged men wearing number 2 jerseys....some of these fans hero worship these players it's not just a game.

So is it ok to wear any Jets jersey or it just can't one that's on the sh*t list for a small portion of the fanbase. 

[jgb]

8 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

This is for last year 
 

this year 

GB/DEN/BUF are top 4 pass defenses 

Thank you. Although this graph doesn’t have a label for its X axis that tells me what it means. And still curious to see 2022 as the toughest.

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

So is it ok to wear any Jets jersey or it just can't one that's on the sh*t list for a small portion of the fanbase. 

Until they change the color on the current Jersey's it's not okay to wear any Jets Jersey's.  It's appalling how ugly the green color on today's Jersey's are.  

[PepPep]

17 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Or worthy of a starting job in the NFL.

I 100% agree with your post, except for this. 

His 'worth' as a starting QB goes only as far as what the CS wants to do. There are a number of QBs around the league who are young and taking their lumps. They may not be throwing 3 INTs a game (and lets be honest this was Wilsons WORST game- in which he still threw for over 350yrds and 2 TDs), but they don't look very good. Just look at Zach's class- Fields, Lawrence, Mac Jones, Mills. None of these guys are looking like 'studs'. but they are young developing QBs, so teams are keeping them in as starters, allowing them to learn on the job. 

And if you are winning- which Zach has been. Then thats fine. 

[jNYC1]

I'm old enough to remember when Josh Allen and Sam Darnold were BFFs.

I don't want to know what Josh thinks about Zach... I want to know if Josh still responds to Sam's texts...

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, jNYC1 said:

I'm old enough to remember when Josh Allen and Sam Darnold were BFFs.

I don't want to know what Josh thinks about Zach... I want to know if Josh still responds to Sam's texts...

Yes he stills sees him mono - eh - mono ?

[undertow]

14 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

So is it ok to wear any Jets jersey or it just can't one that's on the sh*t list for a small portion of the fanbase. 

You can do what you want I'm just saying for some it's more than a game and they get emotionally attached to the players....I just want the team to win could care less if the QBS name is Zach Wilson or Joey Smith.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, undertow said:

You can do what you want I'm just saying for some it's more than a game and they get emotionally attached to the players.

Can't speak for others but bottom line I root for any player wearing the Jets jersey , even someone like Moore who I hated how he handled that situation , but if he's on the field I'm pulling for them.  Also I think in years past in was easier to have favorite players as most guys played for the same team. Since the salary cap era and free agency it really is tougher to have that kind of emotional support for a player. 

[Fantasy Island]

3 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

My user name is in reference to you, not me 

1898?

[munchmemory]

30 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The outright hatred of Zach and proven failure of Zach and even the defense of Moore based on Zach was pure entitlement and hate.

Make the argument intelligently and without malice toward the kid.  He's the QB of the team we follow.  Chances are very high that he bombs out.  If he doesn't it would be fantastic.

He's a draft pick.  It's not a sure thing.  If he bombs it sucks. It actually sucks more for him than it does for me.  

I'm very concerned.  I'm also watching the games on Sunday and I'm rooting for a better result.  If he fails, he's going to be gone at some point.  They always move on if it doesn't work out at some point.

Speaking for myself, I don't hate the kid.  Like with the other QBs in the last few drafts, I'm just disappointed.  Would love for Zach to work out and become an NFL star.   Right now, I don't get that positive a vibe.

[Mario]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Bill Walsh famously said we know what a QB has after 20 starts

Zach is at 18 starts 

the people defending him are treating him like this is game 2 or 3

he's had a whole season of football over 2 calendar years

he averages more than 1 turnover a game and less than 1 TD a game 

his TD/Int ratio is .64 for his career and .49 this year - anything under .80 is job benchingly bad 

these are brutal brutal numbers that are hard to turn around. These are worse than Tim Tebow type numbers. 

the people who want MLF to call more run plays that's like saying only play Poker with A-A or K-K you can't wait around forever for premium hands, sometimes you just gotta push all in. Last week was the offense pushing all in on Zach and he choked 

i understand why the coaches and front office are going to let this play out but the fair thing for the team that's in playoff contention is to bench the kid and start someone else

they are going to really treat the next 10 games like extended preseason when they are 5-3? that's the frustrating part about this 

this could be a playoff team we are on the verge of watching a collapse

You are ignoring the explosives. 7.4 YPA is elite