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Josh Allen gives his opinion on Zach


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14 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

I don't even think Zach is trying to "be the hero" half the time.  I really just think he's shook, seeing ghosts, etc.

I counted 8 plays where Wilson prematurely ran out of the pocket and threw it away, not including the picks.  That's 8 completely wasted plays that the rest of the offense had nothing to do with.  Including his picks, that's ~25% of pass plays where Wilson did not even throw to a receiver.  OL blocks enough for an on time throw to be made, but instead Wilson panics and gives his playmakers zero chance.

Horrible ints and boneheaded decisions are not Wilson's biggest issue.  I REALLY hope the coaches are not simply telling him to "just throw it away," because later on in the game he started chucking them out of bounds way too early, like he was giving up.  He cannot handle the slightest bit of pressure and he bails way too quickly, which ruins the WR's routes because when they're supposed to be getting the ball, Zach's got his back to them.

Below are two back to back plays, 9 minutes left trying to come back and he just freaks out and completely disconnects from the play (only a 4 man rush!).  Zach screws his receivers, OL and OC like this constantly.  The more I watch him the more I think he just has no idea what he's doing.

This is also not factoring in his huge issue with ball placement and touch.

zachsucks.gif.641e4b20510fba6f915df17b6f32fae8.gif

The Jury would take less than 30 minutes to come back with guilty on all counts.

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14 hours ago, bitonti said:

Couldn't have said it better

Non Zach notes about this game 

the patriots are very beatable this year and Jets defense played their t!ts off 

To give up 22 points when the pats had like 5 drives start on short fields due to the turnovers and the FG miss and Manns shank was a great job. The pick 6 being called back too. There were plenty of people bashing this 8 man rotation but Quinnen is having a career year 

Braden Mann irks me too. It's not like he was a high pick but a drafted punter should be better 

Maybe the Jets could have found a punter who shanks it without using a draft pick on him 

 

Dude, they have been beatable since 2020. 

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23 hours ago, JetPotato said:

Correct. Allen runs FORWARD.

LOL

Josh basically telling Zach to stay in pocket and go thru at least 3 progressions before bailing aka trust players to be where playbook says. He tries to Pop Warner it all the time and after primary covered he scrambles thinking he facing Montana State CBs and will find someone open

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On 11/2/2022 at 12:38 PM, MykePM said:

Josh Allen should stop comparing Zach Wilson to Josh Allen?

Josh Allen is an enormous monster who plays fearlessly.  Zach is 6-1, 215 and turns his back on the D even in situations where he’s in no imminent danger.

Josh should have mentioned that part, lol.

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Could have seen this scenario from miles away with Wilson back when he was getting all the pre-draft hype.

There is no substitute for putting in the work to develop the footwork, pocket habits, repeatable mechanics under pressure, football IQ, etc. it takes to succeed at this level.

They ran the ball a ton at BYU behind a very good BYU OL that was giving him IDK what felt like maybe 7s to throw at times during a COVID year vs awful competition where the best team they faced was Coastal Carolina.

Even so, he could rely on his athleticism, arm, and legs to bail him out of the rare bad protection situation in college.  

But it just doesn’t work in the NFL where everybody is faster, bigger and stronger.  You can’t extend plays forever and you will get punished for trying.

Saleh is doing a disservice to his QB telling him and the world he can “go and be Superman” whenever a play breaks down.

The injury could be in the back of his mind, too.  Last year he wouldn’t hesitate to take off given so much space.

The preseason injury occurred on a routine scramble.

He’s afraid of getting hit in the pocket and afraid of getting hurt out of the pocket.

 

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20 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Could have seen this scenario from miles away with Wilson back when he was getting all the pre-draft hype.

There is no substitute for putting in the work to develop the footwork, pocket habits, repeatable mechanics under pressure, football IQ, etc. it takes to succeed at this level.

They ran the ball a ton at BYU behind a very good BYU OL that was giving him IDK what felt like maybe 7s to throw at times during a COVID year vs awful competition where the best team they faced was Coastal Carolina.

Even so, he could rely on his athleticism, arm, and legs to bail him out of the rare bad protection situation in college.  

But it just doesn’t work in the NFL where everybody is faster, bigger and stronger.  You can’t extend plays forever and you will get punished for trying.

Saleh is doing a disservice to his QB telling him and the world he can “go and be Superman” whenever a play breaks down.

The injury could be in the back of his mind, too.  Last year he wouldn’t hesitate to take off given so much space.

The preseason injury occurred on a routine scramble.

He’s afraid of getting hit in the pocket and afraid of getting hurt out of the pocket.

 

the fear of getting hit might have caused the lack of a run in the 4th down play.

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35 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Could have seen this scenario from miles away with Wilson back when he was getting all the pre-draft hype.

There is no substitute for putting in the work to develop the footwork, pocket habits, repeatable mechanics under pressure, football IQ, etc. it takes to succeed at this level.

They ran the ball a ton at BYU behind a very good BYU OL that was giving him IDK what felt like maybe 7s to throw at times during a COVID year vs awful competition where the best team they faced was Coastal Carolina.

Even so, he could rely on his athleticism, arm, and legs to bail him out of the rare bad protection situation in college.  

But it just doesn’t work in the NFL where everybody is faster, bigger and stronger.  You can’t extend plays forever and you will get punished for trying.

Saleh is doing a disservice to his QB telling him and the world he can “go and be Superman” whenever a play breaks down.

The injury could be in the back of his mind, too.  Last year he wouldn’t hesitate to take off given so much space.

The preseason injury occurred on a routine scramble.

He’s afraid of getting hit in the pocket and afraid of getting hurt out of the pocket.

 

I think Wilson puts in the work. The problem is, as you stated at the end, he's afraid of getting hit. 

There is a famous Brazilian Jiu Jitsu coach (I forgot his name) who when he was sparring with black belts at the dojo would normally handle them pretty easily, but the minute you asked him to do it in front of a crowd, he would freeze and get dominated. No matter how much you practice, people are either born with the ability to stay calm and perform or they aren't. I would comfortably bet a reasonable amount of money (for me) that Wilson will never significantly improve under pressure because he just doesn't have the nerve for it. To quote Mike Tyson, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

 

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11 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I think Wilson puts in the work. The problem is, as you stated at the end, he's afraid of getting hit. 

There is a famous Brazilian Jiu Jitsu coach (I forgot his name) who when he was sparring with black belts at the dojo would normally handle them pretty easily, but the minute you asked him to do it in front of a crowd, he would freeze and get dominated. No matter how much you practice, people are either born with the ability to stay calm and perform or they aren't. I would comfortably bet a reasonable amount of money (for me) that Wilson will never significantly improve under pressure because he just doesn't have the nerve for it. To quote Mike Tyson, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

I disagree. Wilson performed in college in front of a lot of people. I think this is more about offseason work. People talk about Allen, but he literally spent 3 months with full days with his QB coach in the 2020 off-season to fix his mechanics to where they were natural. Mahomes does the same thing. 

We even had long debates because Darnold had the same QB coach and that QB coach said something about an 'unamed QB' (that many suspected was Darnold) and the difference between him and Allen being "You get guys who work on it then do it once and walk off the field thinking they got it.. Allen does it once then works on it a hundred more times."

Yes, Zach works with Beck in the offseason. I know we don't know the full scale of his offseason activities, but Wilson needs to spend a LOT of time to make those mechanics natural so that when he's trying to make something happen.. it's not something wild. His issues aren't ones that generally can be fixed during the season. 

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1 hour ago, DoubleDecker said:

 


 

Not exactly the same but definitely can see some parallels and what Allen is referencing happened in his Patriots game.

Thing is, Josh Allen doesn't look frantic here. He stood calmly in the pocket until he had to bail, didn't drift backwards, just made a bad decision on letting it go.

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29 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I think Wilson puts in the work. The problem is, as you stated at the end, he's afraid of getting hit. 

There is a famous Brazilian Jiu Jitsu coach (I forgot his name) who when he was sparring with black belts at the dojo would normally handle them pretty easily, but the minute you asked him to do it in front of a crowd, he would freeze and get dominated. No matter how much you practice, people are either born with the ability to stay calm and perform or they aren't. I would comfortably bet a reasonable amount of money (for me) that Wilson will never significantly improve under pressure because he just doesn't have the nerve for it. To quote Mike Tyson, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

I could see this too.  It's kind of like another way of saying he's choking, right?

Sancho had a similar problem in that he was supposedly a whiz on the chalkboard and film room.  Could answer every question.

But very little of that knowledge and savvy translated to football field, or at least not enough for him to actually play the QB position at a high level.

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yes now they are VERY beatable 

and we still couldn't do it 

ugh emoji 

this is the worst part

that game was just there for the taking

the only thing they couldn't allow to happen was to beat themselves

Herm Edwards, who famously considered punting a "successful drive",  would have annihilated Zach Wilson for those turnovers

Saleh is fine with it apparently

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2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I disagree. Wilson performed in college in front of a lot of people. I think this is more about offseason work. People talk about Allen, but he literally spent 3 months with full days with his QB coach in the 2020 off-season to fix his mechanics to where they were natural. Mahomes does the same thing. 

We even had long debates because Darnold had the same QB coach and that QB coach said something about an 'unamed QB' (that many suspected was Darnold) and the difference between him and Allen being "You get guys who work on it then do it once and walk off the field thinking they got it.. Allen does it once then works on it a hundred more times."

Yes, Zach works with Beck in the offseason. I know we don't know the full scale of his offseason activities, but Wilson needs to spend a LOT of time to make those mechanics natural so that when he's trying to make something happen.. it's not something wild. His issues aren't ones that generally can be fixed during the season. 

My point wasn't about Wilson being able to play in front of crowds, it was that he gets the yips when he feels pressure in the pocket. You can't coach that out of him. It was the same thing I saw in Blaine Gabbert, who I also thought would be a bust. 

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5 hours ago, SouthernJet said:

LOL

Josh basically telling Zach to stay in pocket and go thru at least 3 progressions before bailing aka trust players to be where playbook says. He tries to Pop Warner it all the time and after primary covered he scrambles thinking he facing Montana State CBs and will find someone open

https://www.nfl.com/videos/marc-ross-zach-wilson-a-huge-concern-for-jets-right-now

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/marc-ross-zach-wilson-a-huge-concern-for-jets-right-now

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My point wasn't about Wilson being able to play in front of crowds, it was that he gets the yips when he feels pressure in the pocket. You can't coach that out of him. It was the same thing I saw in Blaine Gabbert, who I also thought would be a bust. 
Never say never .... I heard the same adamance about Josh Allen's accuracy issues after year 1.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

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6 hours ago, VJphillyfan said:

Wilson is 4-1.  He has been excellent 

 

6 hours ago, VJphillyfan said:

Just a very simpleminded and obtuse way of looking at it.  Zach Wilson is a top 6 or 7 qb in the nfl already.  Will end up being too 1.  Chris Simms has magic brain powers 

As stated, I will sit with you all day on the ledge while you sober up.  Kool-Aid is VERY intoxicating and dangerous, but I am here for you.  

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8 hours ago, Coquito said:

I hope I'm wrong and I will gladly eat crow, but Zach is not going to have a good game against Buffalo. They will give him enough rope and he will hang himself with it. 

How to beat Zach? Make him comfortable. When he's comfortable, he does stupid sh*t.

He actually is one of the best QBs when he’s comfortable. It’s when he’s not comfortable that he implodes and plays like the worst of Manziel and Leaf.

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7 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

You guys are overthinking this 

Wilson is a young player that needs time to develop 

Pretty simple 

We’re worried that he won’t develop in time, friend

you see, we don’t know how long our window of ‘just a qb away type of good’ is, so we want the QB we drafted with the 2nd most valuable pick to actually produce. He’s putting up numbers that only rookies normally get away with.

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