Convince me

[derp]

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT (Cimini's article today has it at 6/41 with one of the picks coming clean which would change the above numbers too, but we'll leave the better stats in for now)

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

[Integrity28]

5 OL + 4 TE formation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or, just start Mike White.

[Beaver]

1 minute ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

[Sonny Werblin]

Well, when he's pressured he spins like a top and runs away from the line of scrimmage with his back to the play.  I'd say fixing this problem will go a long way toward improving his "under pressure" performance. This isn't rocket science, the young man needs to gird his loins and step up in the pocket maintaining his vision of the play in front of him. 

[PorP]

7 minutes ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT (Cimini's article today has it at 6/41 with one of the picks coming clean which would change the above numbers too, but we'll leave the better stats in for now)

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Ive heard by many, many experts that if a QB is not great from day 1, there is no hope of ever improving, like ever. So sounds like nothing can be done, so you are better off posing about 4,346 posts per day about how bad ZW sucks, will always suck, and is better off being a MILF hunter than a QB and how he is single handedly stopping us from winning a SB this year. It will get you a ton of those bad ass thumbs uppers

[Vader]

1. step up in pocket.

2. set feet when throws.

[PS17]

2 minutes ago, Vader said:

1. step up in pocket.

2. set feet when throws.

You’d think this is the number one thing they’d be drilling into him during the week. Or maybe they are and he just won’t do it.

[Zachtomims47]

Quicker throws/shorter routes, staying in shotgun, teach your wr's that the play isn't dead when he's out of the pocket and to find the open spaces. pray.

[GreenFish]

Been trying to convince myself of this for a few days now. Lol.

Here’s what I got.

Zach when kept clean is a top 10 QB based on the numbers.

When he is pressured, he instinctively rolls out. I don't think you can coach that out of him. However he needs to learn to manage the habit.

So how does this get better. Train Zach to

1) look for the wide open receiver when rolling out (ie 5 yards of separation on the same side of the field). His only 2 completions to receivers in NE when rolling out were to wide open receivers.

2) if nobody is wide open, look to run and slide. Taking even 3 yards when a team could have sacked you for a 7 yard loss is huge. 

3) if you also cant run, throw it away FARRRR OB

The majority of his issues under pressure are coming when he’s also free styling around the field.

 

Point 2: Zach is the type of QB that greatly benefits from a strong OL.  Keep investing in the OL. 

[JiF]

The easy answer would be to put him under center more often, IMO open up the playbooks, keep the defense guessing, doesnt allow them to just pin their ears all game but, he's terrible from under center because his drop backs are horrendous and he's not really effective in play action, so I'm not sure that fixes it.  Static plays from shutgun/pistol but they try that and he's still bad.  He's a hard kid to call plays for because he very rarely gives the play a chance.

So, if I were Lil Mikey, I'd dial up the RPO game big time.  He actually excels when they do run RPO they just rarely run it.  I'd pretty much start catering the entire offense to the RPO game so that you eliminate his passion for fading/bailing the pocket, this will force him to stay in there and get at least his first read while he decides to hand off or throw.  That said, they'd have to be comfortable with him taking off a bit or they'll never bite on this option.  It's really the only way I think you can do something about this right now.

The bigger issue, separate topic, is his overall coaching and development, or lack there of because all of this comes down his lack of fundamentals but that's like trying to fix your swing on the 8th hole, so the only thing I can even come up with is a heavy RPO game.

[slimjasi]

Sure, but that’s not ok. 
 

He has to figure out how to be decent when pressured, or he won’t be here very long 

[Vader]

3 minutes ago, PS17 said:

You’d think this is the number one thing they’d be drilling into him during the week. Or maybe they are and he just won’t do it.

They must be. It's QBing 101. Darnold had the same problem.

Personally think ZW is scared and playing scared. Fight or flight. He flees. He's not always playing with his whole brain, only his reptilian brain.

He simply lacks the courage and fearlessness to step up into the pocket far too much. 

[Spoot-Face]

18 minutes ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT (Cimini's article today has it at 6/41 with one of the picks coming clean which would change the above numbers too, but we'll leave the better stats in for now)

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

I see you're conveniently leaving out the "explosive plays" stat.

smdh

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

5 OL + 4 TE formation.

 

That was the plan and it was working.  Then Breece Hall got hurt. 

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT (Cimini's article today has it at 6/41 with one of the picks coming clean which would change the above numbers too, but we'll leave the better stats in for now)

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

Zach holds the ball too long.

He needs to display much better field vision, seeing open receivers better, field awareness, throwing his receivers open if needed, and better decision making, ultimately in the aim of throwing the ball much sooner than he has been doing, or tucking it an running, which he doesn't do enough.

Until he can display those things, the issue will not change.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, Vader said:

They must be. It's QBing 101. Darnold had the same problem.

Personally think ZW is scared and playing scared. Fight or flight. He flees. He's not always playing with his whole brain, only his reptilian brain.

He simply lacks the courage and fearlessness to step up into the pocket far too much. 

While this is certainly possible, its also quite possible that he doesnt know or trust what he is seeing enough to step into the pocket and throw it. You think BB was just showing him standard easy reads? Or do you think BB was confusing the sh*t out of him? 

[Larz]

Hypnosis.  I’m only half kidding 

 

[Beerfish]

#1  He has to run more.  You MUST make teams pay for their pressure packages and the successful guys, mahommes, allen, lamar, hurts etc all run when they have to and at times when they do not have to.  He got hurt on a fluke play after a  run so now he and the team are run shy.  huge mistake.

#2 Two TES, yeah this pisses off WRs but we went out and got TES and are now not using them enough.

[Green Truth]

When pressured, he won’t take simple and easy, Always looking for the ESPN splash.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

26 minutes ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT (Cimini's article today has it at 6/41 with one of the picks coming clean which would change the above numbers too, but we'll leave the better stats in for now)

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

This is a good way of looking at. I think the one hypothesis I'd make is that the "being pressured" metric is a combination of O-line giving up pressure and Zach holding the ball too long on a play or making a bad decision. So the part he controls and why he might be so much worse than others is that he makes really detrimental decisions in low-leverage spots. (i.e. not giving up on plays and trying to force action when it's not there)

Being a data guy, I'd be curious of adding a secondary dimension across the pressured statline of average time Zach held onto the ball. Would also be curious at the sack and QB hit metric of those snaps as well.

[Green Truth]

He also creates his own pressure, because if the first read is not there, he can't get to the next reads, causing him to hold the ball too long and having to bail.

[T0mShane]

37 minutes ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT (Cimini's article today has it at 6/41 with one of the picks coming clean which would change the above numbers too, but we'll leave the better stats in for now)

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

He seems to have very poor instincts for the position, does not know where the rush is coming from, and doesn’t understand, on a conceptual level, what he’s trying to accomplish when he starts to roll out. The QBs who are good at it have a natural understanding of how the defense will react when they leave the pocket, but with Zach Wilson there’s none of that—it’s running around for the sake of running around, not to create opportunities for himself or his receivers. I don’t think you can really fix that because you can’t practice it. It’s very much an instinct. 

[thebuzzardman]

Grow incredibly large balls. 

Extra confidence and bravery

Also, reduces ability to run backwards

Unfortunately, won't really be scrambling much 

[Dax89]

The way you slow down a pass rush is with quick passes, screens and RB dump-offs.  

Zach has been inaccurate on all of those types of throws.  

[Vader]

31 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

While this is certainly possible, its also quite possible that he doesnt know or trust what he is seeing enough to step into the pocket and throw it. You think BB was just showing him standard easy reads? Or do you think BB was confusing the sh*t out of him? 

My understanding of the offense -- regardless of QB -- is that there is generally a max of two reads: a primary and secondary read. That's it.

Maybe im wrong but this offense isn't designed to be a scan the field and go through multiple progressions. It's more WCO timing patterns. 

I think BB covered the guys meant to get the ball. And that wasn't hard. Our #1 Offensive weapon was out -- Breece Hall; our #1 WR was out -- Corey Davis; our OL was in shambles; Elijah Moore played but the OC refused to make him read on any play.

ZW again had no running game, pass rushers coming down the pike, and his WRs were covered a whole bunch. He mostly threw the ball away and two of his INTs seemed to be underthrown "throwaways."

 

 

[neckdemon]

1 hour ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT (Cimini's article today has it at 6/41 with one of the picks coming clean which would change the above numbers too, but we'll leave the better stats in for now)

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

listen qbs in the nfl get pressured A LOT!!!! if you can't make plays under pressure then you aren't capable of being a nfl quarterback

[Facts]

Good QB’s are good even when pressured.

Thats been a fact since the dawn of mankind.

[SuicidalSince98]

Someone really needs to chart the “running backwards” crap because in most instances it really is the only alternative to a sack 

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson's struggles this season boil down to anything other than this.

When Clean:

69/95 (72.6%), 907 yards (9.5 YPA), 2 TD, 0 INT 

When Pressured:

9/47 (19.1%), 141 yards (3.0 YPA), 1 TD, 5 INT (Cimini's article today has it at 6/41 with one of the picks coming clean which would change the above numbers too, but we'll leave the better stats in for now)

Bonus: tell me how it gets fixed.

Note: before anyone says all quarterbacks struggle against pressure, know those are the worst numbers against pressure in the league (and by a pretty wide margin).

Can't answer this without knowing the criteria for "pressure".  Are they including the plays where Zach has a chance to step up in the pocket to make a throw but turns and runs anyway, leading to defenders breaking free and chasing him down?

 

[Jetsfan80]

52 minutes ago, PS17 said:

You’d think this is the number one thing they’d be drilling into him during the week. Or maybe they are and he just won’t do it.

How Zach defenders think the coaches react whenever Zach turns his back to the defense:

 

[Paradis]

53 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

 pray.

*fixed

[Jetsfan80]

48 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That was the plan and it was working.  Then Breece Hall got hurt. 

Can't depend on a RB's health for your QB to succeed in this league.  Adapt or die.

That said, Douglas acquired James Robinson for a reason.  The Carter/Robinson/Ty Johnson trio can't replicate Breece Hall's explosiveness, but they can certainly combine for 25+ touches without issue now that Robinson is basically acclimated.

[AbstraKt]

Have the defense count to 5 Mississippi before rushing.

[derp]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Can't answer this without knowing the criteria for "pressure".  Are they including the plays where Zach has a chance to step up in the pocket to make a throw but turns and runs anyway, leading to defenders breaking free and chasing him down?

 

Given I found two different (but very similar) sets of numbers I think you have to acknowledge that there’s a degree of subjectivity but it’s possible to discuss the idea within the conceptual paradigm of excellent when kept clean, worst in the league when pressured.