Roster: Who is good, elite & where do we need to upgrade??

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Guys//gals/they’s

Our future is bright..

Time for a full roster assessment including players who are currently injured.

1. Give me your elite list?

2. Above average?

3. Average?

4. Need an upgrade?  How do we upgrade?

5. Too early to tell?  How much longer?
 

 

[Beerfish]

We are good at RB

We are good at WR

We are good enough at TE

We need an upgrade on oline, as much due to injuries or not but ALWAYS build the oline.

We need an upgrade at QB, we need a viable Good backup that is a viable alternative to the starter.  Competition is a good thing at QB not a bad thing which the NFL collectively cannot understand.

We are good at Dline and pass rush

We are good at CB

We need an upgrade at S

We need an upgrade at LB

Special teams are adequate but keep looking for a great FG kicker.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Here are my own answers to start..

 

1. Quinnen, Sauce, AVT, Breece

2. Reed, Huff (situational pass rusher), JFM (if he can eliminate the killer penalties), Garrett Wilson, Tyler Conklin

3. Everyone else except:

4. Laken Tomlinson.  The trend here is not our friend.  He’s been bad ..

5. Zach; turnaround needed might fall in the unprecedented side of the equation.  This is not comparable to the Mannings, Josh Allen or Tua.  We’ll have the inputs needed after this season if not earlier 

5. Max Mitchell.  I feel good he has the profile to be a good starting RT.  Just needs more experience to prove this.

[Jetsfan80]

Core guys to build around, in order of value/importance:

1. Sauce
2. Quinnen - yes, despite my pessimism, he's earned a 2nd contract
3. AVT
4. Garrett Wilson
5. DJ Reed
6. Jermaine Johnson
7. Breece
8. Quincy Williams
9. Mosley - Cut and re-sign potential, but bring him back

Key FA's to bring back:

1. Lamarcus Joyner
2. Bryce Huff
3. James Robinson
4. Nate Herbig
5. Mike White (as QB3, at least until we add more QB's to the roster)

Veterans under contract in 2023 who I like and would also keep around:

1. Duane Brown
2. Corey Davis
3. Lawson:  Cut and re-sign/restructure/extend for lower 2023 cap #, if possible
4. JFM
5. Jordan Whitehead
6. Mims
7. Moore
8. Berrios - @BornJetsFan1983
9. Conklin

Guys I don't like but we have no real choice but to keep on the roster in 2023:

1. Zach Wilson
2. Becton
3. Laken Tomlinson

Cut candidates:

1. Ashtyn Davis
2. Bryce Hall

Biggest needs, in order:

1. QB (both QB1 AND QB2)
2. C :  I'd let go of McGovern and look to upgrade
3. OT:  Need to figure out what we're doing with Brown, Fant (FA), Becton and whether to add to that group
4. SLB:  Quincy and Mosley need to come back but we need an upgrade over Kwon Alexander
5. DT:  Upgrade over Rankins/Shepherd needed

How my 2023 roster would look prior to adding new talent:

• QB (2) - Zach Wilson, Mike White
  • Departures:  Flacco
  • Practice Squad:  Streveler
  • ADD:  1 QB in draft, 1 veteran QB
• RB (3) - Breece Hall, James Robinson, Michael Carter
  • Departure:  Ty Johnson
• WR (5) - Garrett Wilson, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Denzel Mims, Braxton Berrios
• TE (3) - Ruckert, Conklin, Uzomah
• OT (3) - Duane Brown, Becton, Max Mitchell 
  • Departures:  George Fant, Connor McDermott [insert "Celebration" by Kool & the Gang]
  • ADD:  1 new OT via draft 
• G (3) - AVT, Tomlinson, Herbig
  • Departure:  Feeney
• DE (4) - JJ, Lawson, Clemons, Huff
  • Departure:  Curry
  • Shift JFM to DT
• DT (2) - Quinnen Williams, JFM
  • Departures:  Rankins, Shepherd, Solomon Thomas
  • ADD:  1-2 new DTs to rotation
• WLB (1) - Quincy Williams
• MLB (2) - Mosley, Sherwood
• SLB (0) 
  • Departure:  Kwon Alexander
  • Replacement needed
• CB (5) - Sauce, Reed, Carter, Echols, Hardee
  • Departure:  Hall
• FS (1) - Joyner
  • Departure:  Will Parks
• SS (2) - Whitehead, Tony Adams
  • Departure:  Ashtyn Davis

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Core guys to build around, in order of value/importance:

1. Sauce
2. Quinnen - yes, despite my pessimism, he's earned a 2nd contract
3. AVT
4. Garrett Wilson
5. DJ Reed
6. Jermaine Johnson
7. Breece
8. Quincy Williams
9. Mosley - Cut and re-sign potential, but bring him back

Key FA's to bring back:

1. Lamarcus Joyner
2. Bryce Huff
3. James Robinson
4. Nate Herbig
5. Mike White (as QB3, at least until we add more QB's to the roster)

Veterans under contract in 2023 who I like and would also keep around:

1. Duane Brown
2. Corey Davis
3. Lawson:  Cut and re-sign/restructure/extend for lower 2023 cap #, if possible
4. JFM
5. Jordan Whitehead
6. Mims
7. Moore
8. Berrios - @BornJetsFan1983
9. Conklin

Guys I don't like but we have no real choice but to keep on the roster in 2023:

1. Zach Wilson
2. Becton
3.  Laken Tomlinson

Cut candidates:

1. Ashtyn Davis
2. Bryce Hall

Biggest needs, in order:

1. QB (both QB1 AND QB2)
2. C :  I'd let go of McGovern and look to upgrade
3. OT:  Need to figure out what we're doing with Brown, Fant (FA), Becton and whether to add to that group
4. SLB:  Quincy and Mosley need to come back but we need an upgrade over Kwon Alexander
5. DT:  Upgrade over Rankins/Shepherd needed

How my 2023 roster would look prior to adding new talent:

• QB (2) - Zach Wilson, Mike White
  • Departures:  Flacco
  • Practice Squad:  Streveler
  • ADD:  1 QB in draft, 1 veteran QB
• RB (3) - Breece Hall, James Robinson, Michael Carter
  • Departure:  Ty Johnson
• WR (5) - Garrett Wilson, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Denzel Mims, Braxton Berrios
• TE (3) - Ruckert, Conklin, Uzomah
• OT (3) - Duane Brown, Becton, Max Mitchell 
  • Departures:  George Fant, Connor McDermott [insert "Celebration" by Kool & the Gang]
  • ADD:  1 new OT via draft 
• G (3) - AVT, Tomlinson, Herbig
  • Departure:  Feeney
• DE (4) - JJ, Lawson, Clemons, Huff
  • Departure:  Curry
  • Shift JFM to DT
• DT (2) - Quinnen Williams, JFM
  • Departures:  Rankins, Shepherd, Solomon Thomas
  • ADD:  1-2 new DTs to rotation
• WLB (1) - Quincy Williams
• MLB (2) - Mosley, Sherwood
• SLB (0) 
  • Departure:  Kwon Alexander
  • Replacement needed
• CB (5) - Sauce, Reed, Carter, Echols, Hardee
  • Departure:  Hall
• FS (1) - Joyner
  • Departure:  Will Parks
• SS (2) - Whitehead, Tony Adams
  • Ashtyn Davis

I’m lockstep with you with the possible exception of Kwon Alexander.   To be fair, you might have studied his film more than me.

Completely with you on QB.  Unless Wilson turns it around, he has only earned the opportunity to compete with a short term vet AND draft pick (maybe round 1).

Nice work!

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I’m lockstep with you with the possible exception of Keon Alexander.   To be fair, you might have studied his film ore than me.

Completely with you on QB.  Unless Wilson turns it around, he has only earned the opportunity to compete with a short term vet AND draft pick (maybe round 1).

Nice work!

I haven't studied his film, lol.  I just think he's OK but our LB corps could use one more upgrade and that's the spot I think we should attack.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

I haven't studied his film, lol.  I just think he's OK but our LB corps could use one more upgrade and that's the spot I think we should attack.  

That, QB and maybe OL/DT.

Excited to see JJ and MC develop at Edge!

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

That, QB and maybe OL/DT.

Excited to see JJ and MC develop at Edge!

Yep.  

This roster has very flew flaws so I had to stretch a bit to name more than 3 "need" positions.  When's the last time THAT was the case??

[Maynard13]

Upgrades to DL - we need a nose tackle.  Rest of DL seems good.  

Got to figure out what to do at LT. Brown is fine for next year but they need to draft a future LT next year and groom him to take over. Becton is to huge a question mark. His future, if any, is at RT.  Upgrade at Center for next year as well. 

WR they need to replace Mims. Its just not happening and get rid of Moore. He's a toxic pain in the azz. 

TE's seem ok for now.

RB's - Have to see how Breece recovers so fine for now. 

QB - Zach needs to improve. He aint goin anywhere for now but they need a better QB 2 like a Andy Dalton/Nick Foles vet to come in if Zach continues to struggle.  

Safeties - Not thrilled with them but they adequate. be nice to at least upgrade one of the spots.

CB's are our strength. What a difference a year makes.

LB's - we need like 10 of them. Mosley will more than likely be gone. QW is good to hold on to. 

And of utmost importance: new uniforms

 

 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Most core keepers are pretty easy, as it’s players on their rookie deals from the last 2 drafts. Without listing the obvious names:

• Quincy Williams — I’m a sucker for a guy who is always moving. Yeah he brainfarts here & there but not nearly as much as before & he’s still young. Plus extending him would help in extension talks with his brother, who’s become one of the best players in the game.
• Huff — no-brainer to bring back as a RFA. One dimensional but he’s pretty good at that dimension.
• After just 1 game with us, Robinson’s a watch & wait; probably could bring him back without breaking the bank and they’ll want some insurance in case Hall takes a bit longer to heal (or to heal to the point he is what he was), and while MC1 can certainly break tackles he doesn’t have Hall’s speed & he’s no up the gut bruiser. What he lacks in top end speed, over simply adding a rookie again, he makes up for in areas rookie RBs typically suck; namely blocking.
• I’d bring back Zuerlein. He’s not Greg the Leg anymore, but he’s good enough. I can’t again stomach another camp competition where we crown the lesser of two evils until he’s cut midseason. If some obviously-better veteran opportunity presents itself, I’m for it. Given their impact on the team’s record (and in-game decisions), good veteran kickers are bargains.
• Davis — see how things go after he returns to the field, but tbh he’s only due ~$10MM next year and with Wilson and Moore on rookie deals (assuming they keep Moore) they can afford this indulgence even if he drops to the #3 WR target. Letting him go a year later they’d even be due a comp pick (not a reason to keep him; just saying it’s a bonus). Make Mims take the job from him. Plus the truth is they don’t have to truly decide on him until final cutdowns at the end of the summer.

Upgrade?

• The Zach Wilson stuff is obvious (or at least as things stand today). He’s under a fully guaranteed contract, but if he doesn’t have a stark turnaround well before late December they clearly can’t simply hand him the job again, and need to bring in someone else they could start start all year without holding their nose. Flacco/White are and were unserious competition.
• I seriously don’t know what it is you people see in Mosley. He misses too many plays & opportunities, and… I’m not going to outline it all here, but he might be the single most overrated defender in football. His $ for 2022 was fully guaranteed, but since he has no trade value he should be cut after the season. I wouldn’t even bring him back at half the $17MM he’s due, it’s not like he’s going to get any better, and very likely he’ll get even worse. Depending what they do at QB - and who’s available in FA - I’d push our round 1 or round 2 pick at his replacement. The young core on the team isn’t comprised of all rookies anymore; I appreciate his veteran presence but they can and should do better. 
• Draft another tackle prospect, but with Brown under contract for a below-average amount (caveat: see how the balance of the season goes with him), and Becton fully guaranteed (and possibly motivated for a change, since they’re not picking up his 5th yr option), Mitchell coming back, and AVT showing he can kick out there almost without notice, I’m ok with them further addressing with a mid-round pick here. They don’t need a week 1 starter for ‘23.
• At least one: JFM and Lawson. Probably keep one (at least through the draft, or even the summer)
  • JFM is plenty good at 2022-Rankins money. At double that, I’m not as excited.
  • Lawson doesn’t seem to do much other than his 1 sack every other game. Plus in addition to missing all of last year, it’s not like he was a model of health reliability with Cincy either. He’s not worth $15MM.
  • Jets just drafted 2 hungry edge rushers & Huff has managed to stay off IR. I hate to just hand them starting jobs, but I also hate to see them buried because of a combination of contract influence + coaches love veterans. So maybe keep one; the rest of this season will help decide, but I’d probably lean towards JFM who’s a little less $, is more consistent (such as he is), and is certainly more versatile.
• Tomlinson. Pending his 2nd half of this season, a guy I was admittedly thrilled to land this offseason just sucks. Like he does nothing well all of a sudden. They even moved AVT so he could stay at his same position at LG and still he’s performed like a backup. He’s got no more guaranteed $ left — I’ve got no problems overpaying a bit at the position ($13MM is clearly on the high side for a guard) but not for him. That’s probowl/allpro guard money, yet he’s not playing any better than I’d imagine if Feeney was starting there all year at a fraction of that $. See what his 2nd half looks like, sure, but if it looks like the 1st half he should be packing his oversized suitcases.
• Joyner. He had his one good game this year. Turns 33 next season, which is less than ideal for a DB. OK as cheap veteran depth but he shouldn’t be starting all year again.
• Whitehead’s gotten better after looking like a bad UDFA rookie out of the gate. As he continues more in the same defense he could get better still. I wouldn’t scoff at an upgrade, but he’s not terribly expensive and they’re not turning over half the team again; nor should they.

 

Probably let ‘em go (just the major UFAs):

• Fant — he looked really good last year when healthy, but he gets too banged up every year. Also while pass blocking is far more important for a LT, he’s just too one-dimensional as a blocker & too weak in the ground game (baffling for a man his size). I wouldn’t ante up for him unless he can be re-signed for some surprisingly-lower amount (in which case drop Brown instead).
• McGovern — tbh I think he’s equally overrated by half the fanbase and underrated by the other half. I’m not thrilled the team has no one in place, and however much people want us to draft a center the reality is they’re not heading into the draft with just a backup-level placeholder in case they don’t land someone who’s fully ready to start in Sept. So I think they’ll want to bring in a legit starter, which means they’re probably not drafting a center other than a late-round shot in the dark. On the plus side, if they do re-sign him, I don’t see McGovern - now 3 years older - commanding a new contract that has 2 years fully guaranteed again.
• Rankins — like the rotation keeping everyone fresh, but it depends what he’d cost. I wouldn’t go all-in outbidding any teams that see him as a fulltime starter.

 

Bring them back if they can be re-signed at depth $ (based on play through week 8):

• Herbig — at the risk of being a broken record, see how his 2nd half goes. Based on play thus far, I’d be happy to bring him back again as depth. Starting every game from week 4 onward someone might ante up more than we should be paying for a backup, and it’s too early to tell yet.
• meh, I'm bored of this post. Even I have my limits.

[PorP]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Core guys to build around, in order of value/importance:

1. Sauce
2. Quinnen - yes, despite my pessimism, he's earned a 2nd contract
3. AVT
4. Garrett Wilson
5. DJ Reed
6. Jermaine Johnson
7. Breece
8. Quincy Williams
9. Mosley - Cut and re-sign potential, but bring him back

Key FA's to bring back:

1. Lamarcus Joyner
2. Bryce Huff
3. James Robinson
4. Nate Herbig
5. Mike White (as QB3, at least until we add more QB's to the roster)

Veterans under contract in 2023 who I like and would also keep around:

1. Duane Brown
2. Corey Davis
3. Lawson:  Cut and re-sign/restructure/extend for lower 2023 cap #, if possible
4. JFM
5. Jordan Whitehead
6. Mims
7. Moore
8. Berrios - @BornJetsFan1983
9. Conklin

Guys I don't like but we have no real choice but to keep on the roster in 2023:

1. Zach Wilson
2. Becton
3. Laken Tomlinson

Cut candidates:

1. Ashtyn Davis
2. Bryce Hall

Biggest needs, in order:

1. QB (both QB1 AND QB2)
2. C :  I'd let go of McGovern and look to upgrade
3. OT:  Need to figure out what we're doing with Brown, Fant (FA), Becton and whether to add to that group
4. SLB:  Quincy and Mosley need to come back but we need an upgrade over Kwon Alexander
5. DT:  Upgrade over Rankins/Shepherd needed

How my 2023 roster would look prior to adding new talent:

• QB (2) - Zach Wilson, Mike White
  • Departures:  Flacco
  • Practice Squad:  Streveler
  • ADD:  1 QB in draft, 1 veteran QB
• RB (3) - Breece Hall, James Robinson, Michael Carter
  • Departure:  Ty Johnson
• WR (5) - Garrett Wilson, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Denzel Mims, Braxton Berrios
• TE (3) - Ruckert, Conklin, Uzomah
• OT (3) - Duane Brown, Becton, Max Mitchell 
  • Departures:  George Fant, Connor McDermott [insert "Celebration" by Kool & the Gang]
  • ADD:  1 new OT via draft 
• G (3) - AVT, Tomlinson, Herbig
  • Departure:  Feeney
• DE (4) - JJ, Lawson, Clemons, Huff
  • Departure:  Curry
  • Shift JFM to DT
• DT (2) - Quinnen Williams, JFM
  • Departures:  Rankins, Shepherd, Solomon Thomas
  • ADD:  1-2 new DTs to rotation
• WLB (1) - Quincy Williams
• MLB (2) - Mosley, Sherwood
• SLB (0) 
  • Departure:  Kwon Alexander
  • Replacement needed
• CB (5) - Sauce, Reed, Carter, Echols, Hardee
  • Departure:  Hall
• FS (1) - Joyner
  • Departure:  Will Parks
• SS (2) - Whitehead, Tony Adams
  • Departure:  Ashtyn Davis

I'm on board with most of that.  I'd probably cut CD next year based on availability and small dead cap.

JFM would have 1 strike left and if he failed i'd move on from him, again not a huge dead cap hit.

CJ Mosely is tough.  Mac and his astute business skills really screwed us there,  Mosely is mostly guaranteed in his 5th/ final year.  

I'd move on from McD, Fant and McC

I'd keep Kwon, Rank and Shep.

Draft a DL, Center, LB and WR

Trade for Jimmy G or Mishew, move Zach to 2 and keep White at 3.

[rangerous]

the lists are all pretty interesting mainly because, outside of a couple of positions, the jets only need depth.  it's still all about how the coaches put all of these pieces into place.  wilson may have all the arm talent in the world but he must not be allowed to try 40+ passes per game.  the worst thing is the oline isn't quite there yet.  avt is a stud but the rest of the guys can be easily replaced.  of course they would look much better if they got more playing time as a single unit as opposed to having to fill in for injuries.

[derp]

I think I try to look at needs more from a macro scale than micro when I’m thinking about what needs to be added - then kind of look where that might be added.

Never too much pass rush. If they add there DT is a cleaner fit depth chart wise but I wouldn’t rule out more edge.

Young depth is needed in the OL, QB, and LB rooms.

The RB’s are nice if Hall returns healthy.

Really like the corners. Think a playmaker in the middle of the field - safety, nickel - would make the defense scary. Kind of a luxury pick but there may be guys this class.

Same thing in the passing game. I love what Wilson’s brought and maybe he develops into a guy who they can target when defenses are trying to stop him, but if not they could use another weapon. Specifically a boundary guy. Mims could get there and obviously it’d be nice if they can re-integrate Moore.

[ACourseinMiracles]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Core guys to build around, in order of value/importance:

1. Sauce
2. Quinnen - yes, despite my pessimism, he's earned a 2nd contract
3. AVT
4. Garrett Wilson
5. DJ Reed
6. Jermaine Johnson
7. Breece
8. Quincy Williams
9. Mosley - Cut and re-sign potential, but bring him back

Key FA's to bring back:

1. Lamarcus Joyner
2. Bryce Huff
3. James Robinson
4. Nate Herbig
5. Mike White (as QB3, at least until we add more QB's to the roster)

Veterans under contract in 2023 who I like and would also keep around:

1. Duane Brown
2. Corey Davis
3. Lawson:  Cut and re-sign/restructure/extend for lower 2023 cap #, if possible
4. JFM
5. Jordan Whitehead
6. Mims
7. Moore
8. Berrios - @BornJetsFan1983
9. Conklin

Guys I don't like but we have no real choice but to keep on the roster in 2023:

1. Zach Wilson
2. Becton
3. Laken Tomlinson

Cut candidates:

1. Ashtyn Davis
2. Bryce Hall

Biggest needs, in order:

1. QB (both QB1 AND QB2)
2. C :  I'd let go of McGovern and look to upgrade
3. OT:  Need to figure out what we're doing with Brown, Fant (FA), Becton and whether to add to that group
4. SLB:  Quincy and Mosley need to come back but we need an upgrade over Kwon Alexander
5. DT:  Upgrade over Rankins/Shepherd needed

How my 2023 roster would look prior to adding new talent:

• QB (2) - Zach Wilson, Mike White
  • Departures:  Flacco
  • Practice Squad:  Streveler
  • ADD:  1 QB in draft, 1 veteran QB
• RB (3) - Breece Hall, James Robinson, Michael Carter
  • Departure:  Ty Johnson
• WR (5) - Garrett Wilson, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Denzel Mims, Braxton Berrios
• TE (3) - Ruckert, Conklin, Uzomah
• OT (3) - Duane Brown, Becton, Max Mitchell 
  • Departures:  George Fant, Connor McDermott [insert "Celebration" by Kool & the Gang]
  • ADD:  1 new OT via draft 
• G (3) - AVT, Tomlinson, Herbig
  • Departure:  Feeney
• DE (4) - JJ, Lawson, Clemons, Huff
  • Departure:  Curry
  • Shift JFM to DT
• DT (2) - Quinnen Williams, JFM
  • Departures:  Rankins, Shepherd, Solomon Thomas
  • ADD:  1-2 new DTs to rotation
• WLB (1) - Quincy Williams
• MLB (2) - Mosley, Sherwood
• SLB (0) 
  • Departure:  Kwon Alexander
  • Replacement needed
• CB (5) - Sauce, Reed, Carter, Echols, Hardee
  • Departure:  Hall
• FS (1) - Joyner
  • Departure:  Will Parks
• SS (2) - Whitehead, Tony Adams
  • Departure:  Ashtyn Davis

Hard to argue here. Pretty solid evaluation. 

I'm not sure they'd jettison half the d line (which is the jag portion) to bring in more replacement jags, given they already know the system and seem to have bought in.

I also like kwon. Would be awesome if we could get prime Kwon minus the time off the field. (Don't want to say the jinx word). 

Real solid, man. Thank you for taking the time to write it up.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, ACourseinMiracles said:

Hard to argue here. Pretty solid evaluation. 

I'm not sure they'd jettison half the d line (which is the jag portion) to bring in more replacement jags, given they already know the system and seem to have bought in.

I also like kwon. Would be awesome if we could get prime Kwon minus the time off the field. (Don't want to say the jinx word). 

Real solid, man. Thank you for taking the time to write it up.

I doubt they let 3 DTs walk either but if we're gonna have JAGs at DT I'd rather they be younger (unlike 34-year old Nathan Shepherd) or less expensive (than Rankins).  All 3 are UFA's after the season so I have to imagine at least one will be gone, if not 2.

Plus, since QW is about to get paid, I doubt they want to tie up much money at DT, so going cheaper than Rankins is probably the way to go for the rotational pieces there.  Moving JFM over seems like a no-brainer to me as well.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, PorP said:

I'm on board with most of that.  I'd probably cut CD next year based on availability and small dead cap.

JFM would have 1 strike left and if he failed i'd move on from him, again not a huge dead cap hit.

CJ Mosely is tough.  Mac and his astute business skills really screwed us there,  Mosely is mostly guaranteed in his 5th/ final year.  

I'd move on from McD, Fant and McC

I'd keep Kwon, Rank and Shep.

Draft a DL, Center, LB and WR

Trade for Jimmy G or Mishew, move Zach to 2 and keep White at 3.

I'm good with the non-bold above particularly the moves at QB.

For the bold, I think I'd prefer to just run it back with our WR corps.  Davis has played well this year and has done little to deserve cutting (he's also a very good price for a low-end WR1 / WR2).  But if JD thinks he can upgrade or that Davis isn't needed (perhaps Mims filling his role?) then I could get on board.

Mosley I would definitely hope to see some financial maneuvering but if JD does nothing with his contract and just opts to keep things as is, it still won't be crippling to the cap given the other smart decisions elsewhere.  Mosley has at least started earning some of his money this year and can be a key veteran piece for at least 1 more season.

[PorP]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I doubt they let 3 DTs walk either but if we're gonna have JAGs at DT I'd rather they be younger (unlike 34-year old Nathan Shepherd) or less expensive (than Rankins).  All 3 are UFA's after the season so I have to imagine at least one will be gone, if not 2.

Plus, since QW is about to get paid, I doubt they want to tie up much money at DT, so going cheaper than Rankins is probably the way to go for the rotational pieces there.  Moving JFM over seems like a no-brainer to me as well.

Ya good points.  QW is a must keep. 

If JFM gets his head right,  definitely aligned with you.  Put him on the inside and hopefully we'll have a 3 headed monster at DE with Clemons, JJ and Lawson. 

[PorP]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm good with the non-bold above particularly the moves at QB.

For the bold, I think I'd prefer to just run it back with our WR corps.  Davis has played well this year and has done little to deserve cutting (he's also a very good price for a low-end WR1 / WR2).  But if JD thinks he can upgrade or that Davis isn't needed (perhaps Mims filling his role?) then I could get on board.

Mosley I would definitely hope to see some financial maneuvering but if JD does nothing with his contract and just opts to keep things as is, it still won't be crippling to the cap given the other smart decisions elsewhere.  Mosley has at least started earning some of his money this year and can be a key veteran piece for at least 1 more season.

I don't have a problem keeping CD if we can get some durability from him. I agree he has played well,  just need him to play more. 

To be honest,  I don't know how or what JD can do with CJ? My ignorance here makes me think CJ is in the driver's seat and any restructure will be based on cj conceding. 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, PorP said:

I don't have a problem keeping CD if we can get some durability from him. I agree he has played well,  just need him to play more. 

To be honest,  I don't know how or what JD can do with CJ? My ignorance here makes me think CJ is in the driver's seat and any restructure will be based on cj conceding. 

Yeah it was just an awful contract and made even worse by the COVID opt-out 2020 season that extended things an extra year.

@Sperm Edwards is good at explaining contracts and how they can be adjusted/escaped.  Currently, per overthecap.com, it would cost $14.9M in dead money to cut Mosley in 2023 while only saving $6.6M.  Unless there's a way to do better in that area, it may have to wait until 2024 to cut Mosley. 

My hope is he'll still be playing at a high enough level in 2023-2024 where we can justify bringing him back on a new deal.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah it was just an awful contract and made even worse by the COVID opt-out 2020 season that extended things an extra year.

@Sperm Edwards is good at explaining contracts and how they can be adjusted/escaped.  Currently, per overthecap.com, it would cost $14.9M in dead money to cut Mosley in 2023 while only saving $6.6M.  Unless there's a way to do better in that area, it may have to wait until 2024 to cut Mosley. 

My hope is he'll still be playing at a high enough level in 2023-2024 where we can justify bringing him back on a new deal.

That's not really true (or not necessarily true, anyway). He can be a 6/1 cut and he only counts the $4,476,000 that is hitting the cap whether he's kept or not.

That's just for 2023 alone; the greater reality is it is a very high net savings to cut him asap. Whatever they don't pay him additionally is net cap space saved going forward. You don't save anything by paying a mediocre (and often worse than that) MLB $17MM in new, non-guaranteed money. 

There is zero need to wait until 2024. Zero. 

He's not playing at a high enough level as it is now to justify his spot, and he's definitely not going to improve. 

[Hael]

Long term draft plans over the next few years...

I'm still not convinced about our WRs.  Corey Davis won't be here forever.  Neither will Berrios.  Elijah Moore is a question mark, Mims is probably gone.  That means we still need a potential number 1 WR (the big bodied guy Mims was supposed to be) and a young slot.  Sadly, we probably need a developmental TE.

On the OL, we need quite a few draft picks.  a T and a G/C at the least.  Fant/Mekhi/Laken/McGovern are all potentially gone in the next few years.

On D.  We need another CB, b/c its always important to have cbs.  We need a middle lb an OLB, and a DT.  Possibly a safety, although we have youth there.

QB.....???

Thats about 10 draft picks, so it will take another couple years.  But this is a manageable number for the first time in a long time.  We can fill things with FAs when the time arises without having to reach too far.

[Jetsfan80]

46 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That's not really true (or not necessarily true, anyway). He can be a 6/1 cut and he only counts the $4,476,000 that is hitting the cap whether he's kept or not.

That's just for 2023 alone; the greater reality is it is a very high net savings to cut him asap. Whatever they don't pay him additionally is net cap space saved going forward. You don't save anything by paying a mediocre (and often worse than that) MLB $17MM in new, non-guaranteed money. 

There is zero need to wait until 2024. Zero. 

He's not playing at a high enough level as it is now to justify his spot, and he's definitely not going to improve. 

 

Sweet.  Then I'll stick with what I put in my earlier post:  Cut him this offseason and look to re-sign on a cheaper deal if possible.  

[Obrien2Toon]

1- Q

2- Reed

3- breece

4- avt

5-wilson

6- lawson

7-sauce

jj, Clemons, Mitchell, Moore, Davis 

[Irish Jet]

QB - League worst to very bad. The priority. 

WR - Above average - Potentially very good if Moore can get his head straight. Can see us looking for talent but not investing too much. 

TE - Average. Not a priority. 

OL - Average - Very hit and miss across the line. Inconsistent group aside from AVT. Some decisions to be made. 

RB - Very good, potentially elite if Hall recovers fully. Not a priority. 

-----------------------------

DL - Very good, bordering elite. Not a priority. 

LB - Below average - Improved from last year but still brutal in coverage. Priority. 

CB - Elite, maybe the league's best group by next year. Not a priority. 

S - Better than I thought at the start of the year - Above average. Upgradeable but not a priority. 

-----------------------------

The obvious positions to upgrade are QB, some areas of the OL depending on who they want to keep and LB. The rest of the team is ready to compete right now. 

[ACourseinMiracles]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I doubt they let 3 DTs walk either but if we're gonna have JAGs at DT I'd rather they be younger (unlike 34-year old Nathan Shepherd) or less expensive (than Rankins).  All 3 are UFA's after the season so I have to imagine at least one will be gone, if not 2.

Plus, since QW is about to get paid, I doubt they want to tie up much money at DT, so going cheaper than Rankins is probably the way to go for the rotational pieces there.  Moving JFM over seems like a no-brainer to me as well.

That's a good point. Cheaper and younger with same output is definitely a good thing. Especially when you gotta pay top tier contracts to some players. I suppose the only concern may be some level of locker room camaraderie. Any luck they can find a guy or two at the end of the draft that turn into a snacks level talent and keep the vet rookie balance so the team remains cohesive. (For the most part)

Definitely agree with you on the JFM point. 

I love having depth, competent depth, on this team. It feels like forever.

[ACourseinMiracles]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

QB - League worst to very bad. The priority. 

WR - Above average - Potentially very good if Moore can get his head straight. Can see us looking for talent but not investing too much. 

TE - Average. Not a priority. 

OL - Average - Very hit and miss across the line. Inconsistent group aside from AVT. Some decisions to be made. 

RB - Very good, potentially elite if Hall recovers fully. Not a priority. 

-----------------------------

DL - Very good, bordering elite. Not a priority. 

LB - Below average - Improved from last year but still brutal in coverage. Priority. 

CB - Elite, maybe the league's best group by next year. Not a priority. 

S - Better than I thought at the start of the year - Above average. Upgradeable but not a priority. 

-----------------------------

The obvious positions to upgrade are QB, some areas of the OL depending on who they want to keep and LB. The rest of the team is ready to compete right now. 

Another good evaluation. 

I wouldn't complain if they put a relatively high resource into an LB. Maybe a guy who's a touch raw and can cook for a year under Mosley. 

The OL is the trickiest evaluation to me. One week I feel like we need to burn it all down and the next I think we could get away with a position upgrade and another Mitchell type depth piece.

Thanks for taking the time to write. It was a good read.

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, ACourseinMiracles said:

I also like kwon. Would be awesome if we could get prime Kwon minus the time off the field. (Don't want to say the jinx word). 

IJ's point here is why I chose Kwon to be the LB we try to upgrade:

 

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

LB - Below average - Improved from last year but still brutal in coverage. Priority. 

 

I don't know that Kwon is a primary reason our LBs are poor in coverage (my guess is Quincy Williams doesn't grade out too well, and we know that isn't Mosley's strength), but he IS the LB that I would least mind losing of the 3 because of the strengths Quincy and Mosley DO bring.  

So in my mind, we do whatever we can to find a really good coverage LB or 2 while still hanging on to Mosley and Quincy.  

[Zachtomims47]

20 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Guys//gals/they’s

Our future is bright..

Time for a full roster assessment including players who are currently injured.

1. Give me your elite list?

2. Above average?

3. Average?

4. Need an upgrade?  How do we upgrade?

5. Too early to tell?  How much longer?
 

Just gonna go with the upgrade part...

Need to upgrade LB, S, OL and QB. Simple!

S - can easily be doing in free agency

LB - I wouldn't mind taking in the first round of the draft if there's someone worth taking. 

OL - Can't F around here. I'd resign McGovern and keep intact C, RG (AVT) and RT with Becton being the starter and Mitchell as the back up if that fails. So we need LT and LG. 

LT - I'd see if Houston wants to trade Tunsil first. But do anything possible to solidify this position. It has to priority #1. 

LG? I have no idea. Really blows Tomlinson has been bad. Maybe AVT to LG and keep Herbig at RG. 

 

[GreenFish]

Includes projections and is by position group. 

Elite:

- Very Confident: CB, RB
- Somewhat Confident: Interior DL, WR

Above Average: 

- Not Too Confident: Edge

 

Average:

- Somewhat Confident: LB, Interior OL, TE

 

Below Average:

- Very Confident: OT, S

 

Zach Wilson: I don't know. Complete wild card

 

Priority Needs: LT, FS

Depth Needed: interior DL, OT, interior OL

[GreenFish]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Core guys to build around, in order of value/importance:

1. Sauce
2. Quinnen - yes, despite my pessimism, he's earned a 2nd contract
3. AVT
4. Garrett Wilson
5. DJ Reed
6. Jermaine Johnson
7. Breece
8. Quincy Williams
9. Mosley - Cut and re-sign potential, but bring him back

Key FA's to bring back:

1. Lamarcus Joyner
2. Bryce Huff
3. James Robinson
4. Nate Herbig
5. Mike White (as QB3, at least until we add more QB's to the roster)

Veterans under contract in 2023 who I like and would also keep around:

1. Duane Brown
2. Corey Davis
3. Lawson:  Cut and re-sign/restructure/extend for lower 2023 cap #, if possible
4. JFM
5. Jordan Whitehead
6. Mims
7. Moore
8. Berrios - @BornJetsFan1983
9. Conklin

Guys I don't like but we have no real choice but to keep on the roster in 2023:

1. Zach Wilson
2. Becton
3. Laken Tomlinson

Cut candidates:

1. Ashtyn Davis
2. Bryce Hall

Biggest needs, in order:

1. QB (both QB1 AND QB2)
2. C :  I'd let go of McGovern and look to upgrade
3. OT:  Need to figure out what we're doing with Brown, Fant (FA), Becton and whether to add to that group
4. SLB:  Quincy and Mosley need to come back but we need an upgrade over Kwon Alexander
5. DT:  Upgrade over Rankins/Shepherd needed

How my 2023 roster would look prior to adding new talent:

• QB (2) - Zach Wilson, Mike White
  • Departures:  Flacco
  • Practice Squad:  Streveler
  • ADD:  1 QB in draft, 1 veteran QB
• RB (3) - Breece Hall, James Robinson, Michael Carter
  • Departure:  Ty Johnson
• WR (5) - Garrett Wilson, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Denzel Mims, Braxton Berrios
• TE (3) - Ruckert, Conklin, Uzomah
• OT (3) - Duane Brown, Becton, Max Mitchell 
  • Departures:  George Fant, Connor McDermott [insert "Celebration" by Kool & the Gang]
  • ADD:  1 new OT via draft 
• G (3) - AVT, Tomlinson, Herbig
  • Departure:  Feeney
• DE (4) - JJ, Lawson, Clemons, Huff
  • Departure:  Curry
  • Shift JFM to DT
• DT (2) - Quinnen Williams, JFM
  • Departures:  Rankins, Shepherd, Solomon Thomas
  • ADD:  1-2 new DTs to rotation
• WLB (1) - Quincy Williams
• MLB (2) - Mosley, Sherwood
• SLB (0) 
  • Departure:  Kwon Alexander
  • Replacement needed
• CB (5) - Sauce, Reed, Carter, Echols, Hardee
  • Departure:  Hall
• FS (1) - Joyner
  • Departure:  Will Parks
• SS (2) - Whitehead, Tony Adams
  • Departure:  Ashtyn Davis

I pretty much agree with this except for LB and C. McGovern is consistently average. Never makes the wow plays but also never makes oh damn plays. Just reliably average and I think that's a good thing along the OL.

Same with LB. Kwon, Mosley and Quincy  aren't great. I would say as a group they are ok but they bring leadership to the team.

I also think Duane Brown will retire. Cant see him having surgery and then rehabbing. LT is going to be a mess.

But your list is pretty spot on.

[ACourseinMiracles]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

IJ's point here is why I chose Kwon to be the LB we try to upgrade:

 

 

I don't know that Kwon is a primary reason our LBs are poor in coverage (my guess is Quincy Williams doesn't grade out too well, and we know that isn't Mosley's strength), but he IS the LB that I would least mind losing of the 3 because of the strengths Quincy and Mosley DO bring.  

So in my mind, we do whatever we can to find a really good coverage LB or 2 while still hanging on to Mosley and 

Man, we've been searching for the coverage LB forever!  

It's a freaking unicorn!

Gotta agree, though, of the three he's the odd man out. Still a good ball player.

 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, ACourseinMiracles said:

Man, we've been searching for the coverage LB forever!  

It's a freaking unicorn!

Gotta agree, though, of the three he's the odd man out. Still a good ball player.

The Tiny Linebacker  (seen in action below) was supposed to fix everything!  
 

[ACourseinMiracles]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Tiny Linebacker  (seen in action below) was supposed to fix everything!  
 

Bwahaha!,,,,

[ACourseinMiracles]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Tiny Linebacker  (seen in action below) was supposed to fix everything!  
 

My favorite story about him was Leonard Williams picking him up and carrying him away when he got mad somewhere and wanted to play tough guy.

[southparkcpa]

23 hours ago, Beerfish said:

We are good at RB

We are good at WR

We are good enough at TE

We need an upgrade on oline, as much due to injuries or not but ALWAYS build the oline.

We need an upgrade at QB, we need a viable Good backup that is a viable alternative to the starter.  Competition is a good thing at QB not a bad thing which the NFL collectively cannot understand.

We are good at Dline and pass rush

We are good at CB

We need an upgrade at S

We need an upgrade at LB

Special teams are adequate but keep looking for a great FG kicker.

Think about this… we were talentless 2 years ago. 2 good drafts can fix a ton.  1 more good draft, 1 or 2 signings and if Zach can play, we have a friggin team.  Good post!!!!