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Magic Mike admits he’s at fault for Zach’s struggles


Mario

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10 hours ago, Mario said:

Says turnovers and poor pocket presence is his fault because he’s not coaching them right. 
 

 

I've got a lot to say on this but I'll keep it short.  A lot of our passing woe's are on MLF.

ZW doesn't get a free pass here but I think MLF is a big part of his problem and that Saleh / JD need to put some training wheels on him. 

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Just now, heymangold said:

Yep!  MLF is the one rolling out to his right, about to go out of bounds and then throws back into the field of play directly into the chest of an opposing player!  He's the one missing WIDE OPEN receivers whilst sitting in a clean pocket. 

you must not have paid attention on the 4 game winning streak.  the offense was running through breece hall.  he's injured now and it's obvious zach can't step up.

I would say based on that response that there is a deficit in your understanding. 

Why is Zach in the pocket with the ball long enough to roll out? 

Isn't it the OC's job to understand strengths and weaknesses and call plays accordingly? 

Why is ZW dropping back 5 and 7 steps looking for go routes in the very beginning of the game even despite the crippled oline?

 

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6 minutes ago, PorP said:

I would say based on that response that there is a deficit in your understanding. 

Why is Zach in the pocket with the ball long enough to roll out? 

Isn't it the OC's job to understand strengths and weaknesses and call plays accordingly? 

Why is ZW dropping back 5 and 7 steps looking for go routes in the very beginning of the game even despite the crippled oline?

 

Why?  because he's scared and doesn't step up in the pocket like a QB is supposed to.  i've seen QBs do WAY better with MUCH worse o-lines.  the o-line isn't the problem. the skiddish QB that can't process post snap is.

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12 minutes ago, heymangold said:

Why?  because he's scared and doesn't step up in the pocket like a QB is supposed to.  i've seen QBs do WAY better with MUCH worse o-lines.  the o-line isn't the problem. the skiddish QB that can't process post snap is.

As I said,  Zach's also at fault.  But if you think Zach is deciding how many steps he's droping back or he is in control  of how long it takes for a route to develop,  i can be of no service to you. 

Zach has a pressure rate of over 30%, please point me to the much better QB play with a lesser oline.

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49 minutes ago, PorP said:

As I said,  Zach's also at fault.  But if you think Zach is deciding how many steps he's droping back or he is in control  of how long it takes for a route to develop,  i can be of no service to you. 

Zach has a pressure rate of over 30%, please point me to the much better QB play with a lesser oline.

That's because he holds onto the ball too long. His time to throw is over 3 seconds this season which is bay far the highest in the league. And it's not because players aren't open.

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Not sure when it happened that NFL teams will willingly scapegoat everyone else in the building to avoid “injuring the QB’s confidence.”

True confidence comes from facing and surmounting inner obstacles… not pretending they’re all someone else’s fault.

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1 hour ago, PorP said:

I would say based on that response that there is a deficit in your understanding. 

Why is Zach in the pocket with the ball long enough to roll out? 

Isn't it the OC's job to understand strengths and weaknesses and call plays accordingly? 

Why is ZW dropping back 5 and 7 steps looking for go routes in the very beginning of the game even despite the crippled oline?

 

Zach is bailing before there is even pressure.  It's  like Zach has no understanding of the pocket and how to navigate it. Stepping up doesn't  mean you get the ball and immediately  start moving up but at least when you move, move laterally so you aren't  adding another 10 yards to throws. That helps the D, not the O. 

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6 minutes ago, fullblast said:

That's because he holds onto the ball too long. His time to throw is over 3 seconds this season which is bay far the highest in the league. And it's not because players aren't open.

We all know that Zach suffers tunnel vision, gets confused leading to bad decisions and is terrible under pressure. And all your posts really do is highlight that.  Because Zach is bad doesn't equal MLF is good. 

We all should also know Zach has been great in a clean pocket. 

So just as a crazy fricken thought... don't you think it's on MLF to dial up short routes, 3 step drops with the ball coming out in under 2.5 seconds. 

Get the ball out before the pocket collapses and Zach gets pressure,  before he has time to think. 

If I'm a DC, I know Zach's passer rating in a clean pocket and under pressure.... and I'm pressuring all the time.... don't you think it's the OC job to plan accordingly

Because that is NOT happen for the offense. 

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Not sure when it happened that NFL teams will willingly scapegoat everyone else in the building to avoid “injuring the QB’s confidence.”

True confidence comes from facing and surmounting inner obstacles… not pretending they’re all someone else’s fault.

No doubt, but I don't know that it's established that this is even the primary goal. I think it's more likely in the interest of team cohesion, in a sense that: this is your QB, like it or not, so rally around him because it's him or nobody. That, if the FO/CS doesn't demonstrate they believe in the QB then why should the rest of the team, or something.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the method anyway; just saying I don't agree with the premise that doing so for a QB's confidence is  typically or routinely what an NFL team does, or even what the Jets have done with Wilson or his predecessors. 

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16 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Zach is bailing before there is even pressure.  It's  like Zach has no understanding of the pocket and how to navigate it. Stepping up doesn't  mean you get the ball and immediately  start moving up but at least when you move, move laterally so you aren't  adding another 10 yards to throws. That helps the D, not the O. 

I agree man on everything you said man.  But I have yet to see Zach bail on a clean pocket in less than 3 seconds. I also think it's the job of the OC to know his QB and game plan accordingly

We'll see Sunday.  If MLF plans on dropping a bunch of bombs on Buffalo,  we're screwed in a really bad kinda way. 

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This has been up for 12+ hours and no one's made the obligatory, sarcastic joke about how he should only call the good plays?

Why should @Maxman even bother paying the hosting bill for you people? He doesn't ask for much. No to profanity, talks about religion or politics, or trolling; yes to witty sarcasm jokes, a cord of bacon for one of his moderators, and a harem of oocytes for another.

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35 minutes ago, fullblast said:

That's because he holds onto the ball too long. His time to throw is over 3 seconds this season which is bay far the highest in the league. And it's not because players aren't open.

His time to throw includes his 10 second rollouts.  They affect his totals.  

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21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

His time to throw includes his 10 second rollouts.  They affect his totals.  

The play I linked above likely went down as a pressure against the OL. He could have hit Conklin over the middle 1.5 seconds after the ball was snapped before the pressure even gets to him. Instead he retreats and throws it away. His unnecessary scrambles and holding onto the ball contribute both to his time to throw as well as the pressure rate.

The OL isn't great right now but his decision making is exacerbating the issue.

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30 minutes ago, PorP said:

We all know that Zach suffers tunnel vision, gets confused leading to bad decisions and is terrible under pressure. And all your posts really do is highlight that.  Because Zach is bad doesn't equal MLF is good. 

We all should also know Zach has been great in a clean pocket. 

So just as a crazy fricken thought... don't you think it's on MLF to dial up short routes, 3 step drops with the ball coming out in under 2.5 seconds. 

Get the ball out before the pocket collapses and Zach gets pressure,  before he has time to think. 

If I'm a DC, I know Zach's passer rating in a clean pocket and under pressure.... and I'm pressuring all the time.... don't you think it's the OC job to plan accordingly

Because that is NOT happen for the offense. 

It IS what’s happening.  Zach does not get the ball out.  He rarely hits open receivers on slant routes, rarely throws them open on fade routes and either dirts passes to or straight up ignores checkdowns.

Zach holds the ball when players are open early or thinks he’s getting pressured when he’s not, scrambles out of the pocket with his back turned while receivers’ routes are finished and the play becomes a clusterf*ck.

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38 minutes ago, PorP said:

We all know that Zach suffers tunnel vision, gets confused leading to bad decisions and is terrible under pressure. And all your posts really do is highlight that.  Because Zach is bad doesn't equal MLF is good. 

We all should also know Zach has been great in a clean pocket. 

So just as a crazy fricken thought... don't you think it's on MLF to dial up short routes, 3 step drops with the ball coming out in under 2.5 seconds. 

Get the ball out before the pocket collapses and Zach gets pressure,  before he has time to think. 

If I'm a DC, I know Zach's passer rating in a clean pocket and under pressure.... and I'm pressuring all the time.... don't you think it's the OC job to plan accordingly

Because that is NOT happen for the offense. 

LaFleur is doing exactly that, Zach just isn't taking those passes.

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45 minutes ago, fullblast said:

LaFleur is not the problem. He's creating easy passes for Zach that Zach is simply not seeing or passing up.

Watched the Badlands Podcast film review with Connor Rogers and these are a few of the plays he pointed out.

- Has an easy dump off to Berrios here, passes it up, ends up throwing the ball away.

1132773207_4-berrios-throwaway.thumb.png.6afd3f859294b5dfb47c4eaa5d43a09e.png

 

- Has Uzomah open in the flat for a possible TD if he gets it out on time, and at this very moment he's looking directly at him. Instead he scrambles backwards then tries to throw it 25 yards to the goal line, incomplete.

1819690590_2-uzomah-ez.thumb.png.f267b7a51a0a79ba090293eae2f89411.png

 

- Has Mims open over the middle for what could be a 30 yard gain, instead chooses a far more difficult throw to Wilson who does make an acrobatic catch. This play does result in a first down but Zach went for a far more difficult throw.

mims-wilson.thumb.png.56520e46ff0b56fe53278ccfe4cfe994.png

 

- Has Jeff Smith open over the middle for another would be chunk play, instead rolls to the sideline and throws into a pack of NE defenders for his third pick.

1160007422_3-smith-int.thumb.png.bf8e2b1496cd2d35d4c7c3ff2fe5cbbc.png

 

On all of these plays, the receiver is open within 1 to 1.5 seconds after the ball is snapped. This is an OC scheming easy reads for his QB and mitigating against a banged up OL. Zach just needs to make these throws.

I'm not pointing this out to dump on Zach, these are just areas of his game that he needs to clean up. The plays are there to be made, he just needs to start making better decisions.

I get that screen caps like this have some value, but to take a snapshot of a play and infer A or B from it involves a lot of assumption rather than knowledge.

Take the first play as an example, with Berrios open in the flats. I don't know what the down and distance is, or what the objective is on this play, but it is possible that Berrios is at best an outlet receiver or a diversionary route to draw coverage away from a main target / area of the field. Zach will have been instructed on who the primary / secondary targets are and will be looking for these guys to get open before he looks for his outlet / third option. If he bails on the initial targets too soon, we'd be on his case about taking the check downs rather than letting the play develop ("Garrett was open for a 30 yard gain and Zach bails on the play to find his bestie BB for 3 yards SMH!" :D )

Take the second play as another example - can we see from that image that Zach is looking directly at Uzomah? Or is he looking at his primary target (the WR on the goal line)? Or is he using Uzomah to try to look off the coverage for the TD throw to the WR? The safety looks like he's moving forward which would mean a WR with inside leverage on a 1-on-1 in the end zone. Why pass that up for a throw that is short of the end zone? What's that Patsie defender doing dropping off his rush on Uzomah's side - is he setting up to bat the ball down if Zach does throw it that way? We just don't know. Too much going on to make a simple call of "Zach got it wrong".

This is what Zach and LaFleur need to spend a lot of time going over. Tell me what you saw, what you were thinking, who you decided A vs. B ... why am I looking for option A when option B is open far more often ... what do we do next time we see this ... and so on. Maybe they need to "simplify things" a la ARod. Maybe they've over-simplified stuff and it makes it too easy to defend.

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4 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

It IS what’s happening.  Zach does not get the ball out.  He rarely hits open receivers on slant routes, rarely throws them open on fade routes and either dirts passes to or straight up ignores checkdowns.

Zach holds the ball when players are open early or thinks he’s getting pressured when he’s not, scrambles out of the pocket with his back turned while receivers’ routes are finished and the play becomes a clusterf*ck.

That is not at all happening.  ZW is frequently in 5/7 step drop backs, shot gun or designed roll out.  

I'm not sure I can count 5 plays over the last couple weeks that were 3 step quick pass. 

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