So, does Jermaine Johnson suck?

[Sammybighead]

7 minutes ago, Facts said:

SEASON ENDED UPDATE:

- Johnson ended the season with 8 straight games of NO SACKS.

- He only HIT (not even sacked, just hit) the opponents QB five times the ENTIRE SEASON.

- Did not have TFL in the last 8 games and only had 3 for the ENTIRE SEASON.

- The Jets tried to prop him up by using him more. He played upwords of 40-50% of the snaps in some games over the last 5 weeks of the season and he STILL didnt make an impact.

Some of you who mocked me need to come get your JUST DESSERTS!

 

I mocked you and 100% stand by it. Calling a rookie a bust is utterly ridiculous. If he stinks ends of year 2, begin of year 3, then I'll agree. Until then, this thread was stupid to be started middle of year 1. People like you would have ran quinnen out of town. 

[Morrissey]

delete

[Facts]

2 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

I mocked you and 100% stand by it.

Doubling down. I like it. The thread continues on…

[#27TheDominator]

Considering how well the defense performed after the first few weeks, it seems odd to complain much about them or their allocation of resources.  They do not do things the way I would, but the way they are doing it is working.  Why bitch about it? 

[Facts]

16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Considering how well the defense performed after the first few weeks, it seems odd to complain much about them or their allocation of resources.  They do not do things the way I would, but the way they are doing it is working.  Why bitch about it? 

Because we would have used that valuable 1st round pick on a more important need.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Facts said:

Because we would have used that valuable 1st round pick on a more important need.

and had a worse defense?  I think the argument is that if they didn't make the move they could have stood pat and still gotten Breece Hall.  Moving up for the RB seems more sketchy.  Great as Hall was, his injury is part of the reason people don't like putting too much expenditure at RB.  Going into the draft most of the board was good with Johnson at 10.  That was a bit rich for me, but I am happy with the pick and the player.  Look at it this way - they traded McCreary, Petite-Frere and Avery Williamson for Johnson and Ruckert. 

[Beerfish]

38% of the defensive snaps.  If I'm Douglas and Saleh comes up to me next draft season and asks about a dlineman I tell him to f off, sit in the corner and enjoy the 5th round and later guys I get for him.

[Sammybighead]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

38% of the defensive snaps.  If I'm Douglas and Saleh comes up to me next draft season and asks about a dlineman I tell him to f off, sit in the corner and enjoy the 5th round and later guys I get for him.

You realize they definitely drafting a DT, right?

[Facts]

7 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

and had a worse defense?  I think the argument is that if they didn't make the move they could have stood pat and still gotten Breece Hall.  Moving up for the RB seems more sketchy.  Great as Hall was, his injury is part of the reason people don't like putting too much expenditure at RB.  Going into the draft most of the board was good with Johnson at 10.  That was a bit rich for me, but I am happy with the pick and the player.  Look at it this way - they traded McCreary, Petite-Frere and Avery Williamson for Johnson and Ruckert. 

Except they wouldn’t have had a worse defense because JJ did absolutely JACK SQUAT all year!

[OverweightJetsFan]

13 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

I mocked you and 100% stand by it. Calling a rookie a bust is utterly ridiculous. If he stinks ends of year 2, begin of year 3, then I'll agree. Until then, this thread was stupid to be started middle of year 1. People like you would have ran quinnen out of town. 

Johnson is actually older than Quinnen so comparing apples to oranges there. JJ didn’t have a great rookie year, but Saleh certainly didn’t help him look good either with his boring vanilla scheme. 

[LIJetsFan]

I presume JJ was drafted to be Lawson's replacement.  Even as a 1st rounder he's more cap friendly than Lawson right?  None the less as of now he seems over drafted.  Time will tell but having drafted JJ is one of the very least of our problems.    

[genot]

I think it's silly to call him a bust. However, he isn't really what  we're all looking for as a pass rusher. His sacks, and pressures will come with great coverage. If we could find a Bryce Huff type who also can play the run and set the edge, I wouldn't object to him getting most of the snaps to replace Lawson

[extmenace]

52 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I presume JJ was drafted to be Lawson's replacement.  Even as a 1st rounder he's more cap friendly than Lawson right?  None the less as of now he seems over drafted.  Time will tell but having drafted JJ is one of the very least of our problems.    

This. Saleh had depth on the d line. Saleh was constantly shuffling guys in and out. Johnson was eased into the role. Lawson will likely get cut this off-season and Johnson will take on a bigger role in year 2. Johnson wasn’t asked and the jets didn’t need to roll him out on 80% of the snaps. Time will tell us what we have with jermaine but I don’t think you can really say this kid is a bad, mediocre, or good player at this point. There was a reason he dropped in the draft though. With more playing time in year 2, next year will be his chance to show what he is / or isn’t.

[Dunnie]

Not a bust at all ... But not as good as the coaches thought he would be ... Seems very solid.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

I presume JJ was drafted to be Lawson's replacement.  Even as a 1st rounder he's more cap friendly than Lawson right?  None the less as of now he seems over drafted.  Time will tell but having drafted JJ is one of the very least of our problems.    

A late 1st is a good shot to take on a pass rusher who has elite/high level athleticism.  

That said, if he doesn't seize a starting role next year with Lawson likely gone, yeah, then I would certainly be sounding the bust alarm.  He needs to crush it during camp this summer.

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A late 1st is a good shot to take on a pass rusher who has elite/high level athleticism.  

That said, if he doesn't seize a starting role next year with Lawson likely gone, yeah, then I would certainly be sounding the bust alarm.  He needs to crush it during camp this summer.

Someone posted the per snap stats for JJ compared to other rookie pass rushers a couple of weeks ago and he was either 1st or 2nd in basically every pass rush metric. I seem to remember one Q. Williams showing the same way before he was unleashed this year.

The black and white look at raw numbers for a pass rusher as part of a big rotation is pretty weak sauce, especially when we've seen this story play out.

[CSNY]

To me Jermaine will be as good or slightly better than Calvin Pace as he’s a better athlete than Pace

Far better than Bryan Thomas and we don’t have to discuss Vernon Ghoulston and what he turned out to be , Johnson is a  rookie that played sparingly on a deep d line , did very well setting the edge in the run game and made a few nice plays on special teams. Is he Micah Parsons absolutely not but is not a bust by any means 

[Jetsfan80]

22 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Someone posted the per snap stats for JJ compared to other rookie pass rushers a couple of weeks ago and he was either 1st or 2nd in basically every pass rush metric. I seem to remember one Q. Williams showing the same way before he was unleashed this year.

The black and white look at raw numbers for a pass rusher as part of a big rotation is pretty weak sauce, especially when we've seen this story play out.

Highly premature, yes.  I declared Quinnen a bust pretty early on and look silly for it now.  This thread may, similarly, be fun to bump over the next few years.

[Dunnie]

2 hours ago, CSNY said:

To me Jermaine will be as good or slightly better than Calvin Pace as he’s a better athlete than Pace

Far better than Bryan Thomas and we don’t have to discuss Vernon Ghoulston and what he turned out to be , Johnson is a  rookie that played sparingly on a deep d line , did very well setting the edge in the run game and made a few nice plays on special teams. Is he Micah Parsons absolutely not but is not a bust by any means 

He IS Calvin Pace

[CSNY]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

He IS Calvin Pace

As of now he is (which is not bad for a rookie) but I do believe he does have a upside to be better than Pace 

[Facts]

4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Someone posted the per snap stats for JJ compared to other rookie pass rushers a couple of weeks ago and he was either 1st or 2nd in basically every pass rush metric. I seem to remember one Q. Williams showing the same way before he was unleashed this year.

The black and white look at raw numbers for a pass rusher as part of a big rotation is pretty weak sauce, especially when we've seen this story play out.

Even if that’s true, that just means that THIS team - the Jets - were not the right team for him. Way other positions of need than a linemen that plays 1/3rd of the game.

[Facts]

4 hours ago, CSNY said:

To me Jermaine will be as good or slightly better than Calvin Pace as he’s a better athlete than Pace

Far better than Bryan Thomas and we don’t have to discuss Vernon Ghoulston and what he turned out to be , Johnson is a  rookie that played sparingly on a deep d line , did very well setting the edge in the run game and made a few nice plays on special teams. Is he Micah Parsons absolutely not but is not a bust by any means 

Bust for a 1st round pick.

Everything you mentioned - setting the edge, making a few nice plays, etc …. you can get that in the 3rd round (or later).

[Facts]

8 hours ago, genot said:

His sacks, and pressures will come with great coverage

ANY defensive end would get sacks and pressure with great coverage.

[RedBeardedSavage]

I was and still am a big fan of JJ II.

Did he have a good rookie year? No.

A bad one? No.

Considering it was kinda par-for-the-course for that position, I just don't see a need to worry.

[Sammybighead]

46 minutes ago, Facts said:

Bust for a 1st round pick.

Everything you mentioned - setting the edge, making a few nice plays, etc …. you can get that in the 3rd round (or later).

You seriously think getting a better version of calvin pace in the late 20's of the draft is a bust? If he was a top 5 pick I'd agree with that sentiment but it still wouldn't be a terrible outcome.

You realize most past rushers need more than a rookie year to figure out how to get sacks in the nfl, right?

 

[CSNY]

56 minutes ago, Facts said:

Bust for a 1st round pick.

Everything you mentioned - setting the edge, making a few nice plays, etc …. you can get that in the 3rd round (or later).

Can you give JJ more than 14 games to label him as a bust He had a better season than Kayvon Thibs who was drafted # 6 do you feel he’s a bust as well? Let’s see how he does with more experience and playing time 

[Facts]

10 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

You seriously think getting a better version of calvin pace in the late 20's of the draft is a bust? If he was a top 5 pick I'd agree with that sentiment but it still wouldn't be a terrible outcome.

You realize most past rushers need more than a rookie year to figure out how to get sacks in the nfl, right?

 

He’s going to need to turn into Bruce Smith.

Because with the way we use his position only 1/3 of the time, it will take a ton to overcome the fact that used a 1st round pick on a player that is barely on the field.

[Lith]

12 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

You seriously think getting a better version of calvin pace in the late 20's of the draft is a bust? If he was a top 5 pick I'd agree with that sentiment but it still wouldn't be a terrible outcome.

To some, a first rounder is either an All Pro as a rookie or a Bust.  There is no in between.  JJ had a solid rookie year.  Not spectacular like GW or Sauce, but solid.  No reason to label him a bust.  And I agree, if he has a 12 year NFL career similar to a guy like Calvin Pace, that could be a bit disappointing for a 1st rounder, but he still would not be a bust.

[Facts]

10 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Can you give JJ more than 14 games to label him as a bust He had a better season than Kayvon Thibs who was drafted # 6 do you feel he’s a bust as well? Let’s see how he does with more experience and playing time 

He did not have a better season than Thibs. Not even remotely close.

Thibs had 3x more pressures, 5x more hits, 3x more hurries, and 2 more forced fumbles.

Even though Thibs doesn’t have gaudy sack stats, he would creating havoc all over. JJ doesnt have the sacks AND wasn’t causing havoc.

 

[Facts]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

To some, a first rounder is either an All Pro as a rookie or a Bust.  There is no in between.  JJ had a solid rookie year.  Not spectacular like GW or Sauce, but solid.  No reason to label him a bust.  And I agree, if he has a 12 year NFL career similar to a guy like Calvin Pace, that could be a bit disappointing for a 1st rounder, but he still would not be a bust.

Bust for a 1st rounder. Not a bust overall.

If he was a 3rd round pick, no one is complaining about his performance this year. Because that’s about what his performance shows he should have went.

Lets not forget that JJ was falling like a rock in the draft before the Jets took him. And a lot of it is the fact that this coaching staff rosters the D-line, which puts way less emphasis on needing studs so why spend a 1st rounder on that position?

Would you rather have an explosive weapon like Pickens right now, or JJ?

[CSNY]

3 hours ago, Facts said:

He did not have a better season than Thibs. Not even remotely close.

Thibs had 3x more pressures, 5x more hits, 3x more hurries, and 2 more forced fumbles.

Even though Thibs doesn’t have gaudy sack stats, he would creating havoc all over. JJ doesnt have the sacks AND wasn’t causing havoc.

 

Created havoc ? Not how I saw it. If you remember the first half of the year people were wondering when he was playing if he was even on the field He also played much more so tge numbers you site are skewed and if you noticed the sacks he did get he was unblocked on most of them For the #5 pick vs the # 26 JJ had just as good a season as Thibs. Give JJ the same playing time he would have had even better numbers which as we all know don’t tell the entire story 

[Barry McCockinner]

FUN!

On 1/10/2023 at 10:31 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Highly premature, yes.  I declared Quinnen a bust pretty early on and look silly for it now.  This thread may, similarly, be fun to bump over the next few years.

necro for @Warfish

#facts

[HessStation]

Dude was awesome this yr. Surprised they haven’t traded him for a 6th round pick 

[hawk]

24 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

FUN!

necro for @Warfish

#facts

I am pretty sure Williams is a bust since he only had 3.5 sacks prior to the last game.  False gold that he made the pro bowl.

[Sammybighead]

ALOL

Thank you for resurrecting this thread.

You'll find throughout the thread posts from me saying it was idiotic for the OP to label a rookie a bust after a handful of games his 1st year. In fact, it idiotic to label any rookie a bust OR a stud based on their rookie year. It doesn't matter.

Hopefully OP learned something, but probably not.