Sammybighead Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 minutes ago, Facts said: SEASON ENDED UPDATE: - Johnson ended the season with 8 straight games of NO SACKS. - He only HIT (not even sacked, just hit) the opponents QB five times the ENTIRE SEASON. - Did not have TFL in the last 8 games and only had 3 for the ENTIRE SEASON. - The Jets tried to prop him up by using him more. He played upwords of 40-50% of the snaps in some games over the last 5 weeks of the season and he STILL didnt make an impact. Some of you who mocked me need to come get your JUST DESSERTS! I mocked you and 100% stand by it. Calling a rookie a bust is utterly ridiculous. If he stinks ends of year 2, begin of year 3, then I'll agree. Until then, this thread was stupid to be started middle of year 1. People like you would have ran quinnen out of town. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 delete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Sammybighead said: I mocked you and 100% stand by it. Doubling down. I like it. The thread continues on… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Considering how well the defense performed after the first few weeks, it seems odd to complain much about them or their allocation of resources. They do not do things the way I would, but the way they are doing it is working. Why bitch about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Considering how well the defense performed after the first few weeks, it seems odd to complain much about them or their allocation of resources. They do not do things the way I would, but the way they are doing it is working. Why bitch about it? Because we would have used that valuable 1st round pick on a more important need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Facts said: Because we would have used that valuable 1st round pick on a more important need. and had a worse defense? I think the argument is that if they didn't make the move they could have stood pat and still gotten Breece Hall. Moving up for the RB seems more sketchy. Great as Hall was, his injury is part of the reason people don't like putting too much expenditure at RB. Going into the draft most of the board was good with Johnson at 10. That was a bit rich for me, but I am happy with the pick and the player. Look at it this way - they traded McCreary, Petite-Frere and Avery Williamson for Johnson and Ruckert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 38% of the defensive snaps. If I'm Douglas and Saleh comes up to me next draft season and asks about a dlineman I tell him to f off, sit in the corner and enjoy the 5th round and later guys I get for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammybighead Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, Beerfish said: 38% of the defensive snaps. If I'm Douglas and Saleh comes up to me next draft season and asks about a dlineman I tell him to f off, sit in the corner and enjoy the 5th round and later guys I get for him. You realize they definitely drafting a DT, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 7 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: and had a worse defense? I think the argument is that if they didn't make the move they could have stood pat and still gotten Breece Hall. Moving up for the RB seems more sketchy. Great as Hall was, his injury is part of the reason people don't like putting too much expenditure at RB. Going into the draft most of the board was good with Johnson at 10. That was a bit rich for me, but I am happy with the pick and the player. Look at it this way - they traded McCreary, Petite-Frere and Avery Williamson for Johnson and Ruckert. Except they wouldn’t have had a worse defense because JJ did absolutely JACK SQUAT all year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverweightJetsFan Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 13 hours ago, Sammybighead said: I mocked you and 100% stand by it. Calling a rookie a bust is utterly ridiculous. If he stinks ends of year 2, begin of year 3, then I'll agree. Until then, this thread was stupid to be started middle of year 1. People like you would have ran quinnen out of town. Johnson is actually older than Quinnen so comparing apples to oranges there. JJ didn’t have a great rookie year, but Saleh certainly didn’t help him look good either with his boring vanilla scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I presume JJ was drafted to be Lawson's replacement. Even as a 1st rounder he's more cap friendly than Lawson right? None the less as of now he seems over drafted. Time will tell but having drafted JJ is one of the very least of our problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genot Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I think it's silly to call him a bust. However, he isn't really what we're all looking for as a pass rusher. His sacks, and pressures will come with great coverage. If we could find a Bryce Huff type who also can play the run and set the edge, I wouldn't object to him getting most of the snaps to replace Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extmenace Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 52 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said: I presume JJ was drafted to be Lawson's replacement. Even as a 1st rounder he's more cap friendly than Lawson right? None the less as of now he seems over drafted. Time will tell but having drafted JJ is one of the very least of our problems. This. Saleh had depth on the d line. Saleh was constantly shuffling guys in and out. Johnson was eased into the role. Lawson will likely get cut this off-season and Johnson will take on a bigger role in year 2. Johnson wasn’t asked and the jets didn’t need to roll him out on 80% of the snaps. Time will tell us what we have with jermaine but I don’t think you can really say this kid is a bad, mediocre, or good player at this point. There was a reason he dropped in the draft though. With more playing time in year 2, next year will be his chance to show what he is / or isn’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Not a bust at all ... But not as good as the coaches thought he would be ... Seems very solid.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, LIJetsFan said: I presume JJ was drafted to be Lawson's replacement. Even as a 1st rounder he's more cap friendly than Lawson right? None the less as of now he seems over drafted. Time will tell but having drafted JJ is one of the very least of our problems. A late 1st is a good shot to take on a pass rusher who has elite/high level athleticism. That said, if he doesn't seize a starting role next year with Lawson likely gone, yeah, then I would certainly be sounding the bust alarm. He needs to crush it during camp this summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: A late 1st is a good shot to take on a pass rusher who has elite/high level athleticism. That said, if he doesn't seize a starting role next year with Lawson likely gone, yeah, then I would certainly be sounding the bust alarm. He needs to crush it during camp this summer. Someone posted the per snap stats for JJ compared to other rookie pass rushers a couple of weeks ago and he was either 1st or 2nd in basically every pass rush metric. I seem to remember one Q. Williams showing the same way before he was unleashed this year. The black and white look at raw numbers for a pass rusher as part of a big rotation is pretty weak sauce, especially when we've seen this story play out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSNY Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 To me Jermaine will be as good or slightly better than Calvin Pace as he’s a better athlete than Pace Far better than Bryan Thomas and we don’t have to discuss Vernon Ghoulston and what he turned out to be , Johnson is a rookie that played sparingly on a deep d line , did very well setting the edge in the run game and made a few nice plays on special teams. Is he Micah Parsons absolutely not but is not a bust by any means 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 22 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: Someone posted the per snap stats for JJ compared to other rookie pass rushers a couple of weeks ago and he was either 1st or 2nd in basically every pass rush metric. I seem to remember one Q. Williams showing the same way before he was unleashed this year. The black and white look at raw numbers for a pass rusher as part of a big rotation is pretty weak sauce, especially when we've seen this story play out. Highly premature, yes. I declared Quinnen a bust pretty early on and look silly for it now. This thread may, similarly, be fun to bump over the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, CSNY said: To me Jermaine will be as good or slightly better than Calvin Pace as he’s a better athlete than Pace Far better than Bryan Thomas and we don’t have to discuss Vernon Ghoulston and what he turned out to be , Johnson is a rookie that played sparingly on a deep d line , did very well setting the edge in the run game and made a few nice plays on special teams. Is he Micah Parsons absolutely not but is not a bust by any means He IS Calvin Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSNY Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Dunnie said: He IS Calvin Pace As of now he is (which is not bad for a rookie) but I do believe he does have a upside to be better than Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said: Someone posted the per snap stats for JJ compared to other rookie pass rushers a couple of weeks ago and he was either 1st or 2nd in basically every pass rush metric. I seem to remember one Q. Williams showing the same way before he was unleashed this year. The black and white look at raw numbers for a pass rusher as part of a big rotation is pretty weak sauce, especially when we've seen this story play out. Even if that’s true, that just means that THIS team - the Jets - were not the right team for him. Way other positions of need than a linemen that plays 1/3rd of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, CSNY said: To me Jermaine will be as good or slightly better than Calvin Pace as he’s a better athlete than Pace Far better than Bryan Thomas and we don’t have to discuss Vernon Ghoulston and what he turned out to be , Johnson is a rookie that played sparingly on a deep d line , did very well setting the edge in the run game and made a few nice plays on special teams. Is he Micah Parsons absolutely not but is not a bust by any means Bust for a 1st round pick. Everything you mentioned - setting the edge, making a few nice plays, etc …. you can get that in the 3rd round (or later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 8 hours ago, genot said: His sacks, and pressures will come with great coverage ANY defensive end would get sacks and pressure with great coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I was and still am a big fan of JJ II. Did he have a good rookie year? No. A bad one? No. Considering it was kinda par-for-the-course for that position, I just don't see a need to worry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammybighead Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 46 minutes ago, Facts said: Bust for a 1st round pick. Everything you mentioned - setting the edge, making a few nice plays, etc …. you can get that in the 3rd round (or later). You seriously think getting a better version of calvin pace in the late 20's of the draft is a bust? If he was a top 5 pick I'd agree with that sentiment but it still wouldn't be a terrible outcome. You realize most past rushers need more than a rookie year to figure out how to get sacks in the nfl, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSNY Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 56 minutes ago, Facts said: Bust for a 1st round pick. Everything you mentioned - setting the edge, making a few nice plays, etc …. you can get that in the 3rd round (or later). Can you give JJ more than 14 games to label him as a bust He had a better season than Kayvon Thibs who was drafted # 6 do you feel he’s a bust as well? Let’s see how he does with more experience and playing time 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 10 minutes ago, Sammybighead said: You seriously think getting a better version of calvin pace in the late 20's of the draft is a bust? If he was a top 5 pick I'd agree with that sentiment but it still wouldn't be a terrible outcome. You realize most past rushers need more than a rookie year to figure out how to get sacks in the nfl, right? He’s going to need to turn into Bruce Smith. Because with the way we use his position only 1/3 of the time, it will take a ton to overcome the fact that used a 1st round pick on a player that is barely on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 12 minutes ago, Sammybighead said: You seriously think getting a better version of calvin pace in the late 20's of the draft is a bust? If he was a top 5 pick I'd agree with that sentiment but it still wouldn't be a terrible outcome. To some, a first rounder is either an All Pro as a rookie or a Bust. There is no in between. JJ had a solid rookie year. Not spectacular like GW or Sauce, but solid. No reason to label him a bust. And I agree, if he has a 12 year NFL career similar to a guy like Calvin Pace, that could be a bit disappointing for a 1st rounder, but he still would not be a bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 10 minutes ago, CSNY said: Can you give JJ more than 14 games to label him as a bust He had a better season than Kayvon Thibs who was drafted # 6 do you feel he’s a bust as well? Let’s see how he does with more experience and playing time He did not have a better season than Thibs. Not even remotely close. Thibs had 3x more pressures, 5x more hits, 3x more hurries, and 2 more forced fumbles. Even though Thibs doesn’t have gaudy sack stats, he would creating havoc all over. JJ doesnt have the sacks AND wasn’t causing havoc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 2 minutes ago, Lith said: To some, a first rounder is either an All Pro as a rookie or a Bust. There is no in between. JJ had a solid rookie year. Not spectacular like GW or Sauce, but solid. No reason to label him a bust. And I agree, if he has a 12 year NFL career similar to a guy like Calvin Pace, that could be a bit disappointing for a 1st rounder, but he still would not be a bust. Bust for a 1st rounder. Not a bust overall. If he was a 3rd round pick, no one is complaining about his performance this year. Because that’s about what his performance shows he should have went. Lets not forget that JJ was falling like a rock in the draft before the Jets took him. And a lot of it is the fact that this coaching staff rosters the D-line, which puts way less emphasis on needing studs so why spend a 1st rounder on that position? Would you rather have an explosive weapon like Pickens right now, or JJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSNY Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 hours ago, Facts said: He did not have a better season than Thibs. Not even remotely close. Thibs had 3x more pressures, 5x more hits, 3x more hurries, and 2 more forced fumbles. Even though Thibs doesn’t have gaudy sack stats, he would creating havoc all over. JJ doesnt have the sacks AND wasn’t causing havoc. Created havoc ? Not how I saw it. If you remember the first half of the year people were wondering when he was playing if he was even on the field He also played much more so tge numbers you site are skewed and if you noticed the sacks he did get he was unblocked on most of them For the #5 pick vs the # 26 JJ had just as good a season as Thibs. Give JJ the same playing time he would have had even better numbers which as we all know don’t tell the entire story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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