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Saleh: Denzel Mims has earned role even when Davis comes back


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16 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

True, although he only got 10 snaps last week and that has nothing to do with Zach Wilson, IMO - it’s probably because they aren’t thrilled with Moore despite what they are saying and I legit think Mims is a guy who could suddenly be good. I’ve always liked the prospect and he had some nice moments as a rookie. And GW is a future star, IMO. Just a really good player. So Moore could quickly become a secondary WR option here. Depends how well Mims really plays. And this is not even mentioning Conklin, who is also emerging.
 

The Jets have a lot of weapons - they don’t have to play a malcontent. Of course, injuries can always happen. 

It's the coaches' prerogative not to play him in order to send a message.  But in terms of his value as an asset, I think he's worth more to the Jets in the long-term than he'd be worth in any trade this offseason.  

As for it having "nothing to do with Wilson", it did when Wilson first returned.  Moore's snap count did not immediately drop when Wilson entered the lineup.  Yet Moore received 9 targets in Week 3 with Flacco but only 8 total over the next 2 weeks with Wilson.  Then 0 the following week.  His snap count began to drop precipitously; in that 3rd game with the 0 targets he only got 54 % of the snaps compared to nearly 70 % in Week 4....but it wasn't an immediate drop when Wilson replaced Flacco.

It's a combination of Wilson not looking for/finding him, Moore responding to that poorly, and the coaching staff punishing him for it.  

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37 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Mims elevation is CLEARLY a Saleh move and one that I do not think that Mike Lafleur was EVER going to make!

How do I know?

Listen closely............. you NEVER hear Lafleur make these positive statements about Mims first, when he should be the one who is touting his players and getting them on the field.  Notice Saleh's statement comes AFTER the Lafleur presser in which he barely mentions Mims.

Second, the whole "Mims doesn't Run the Whole Route Tree" was actually used against Garrett Wilson in the first games.  Lafleur actaually said that Garrett Wilson needed to know the "whole route tree" before being featured, folks complained, saying that Wilson was the best WR on the field. 

Interestingly Saleh said in that very next presser after those complaints that he thought Garrett should get more touches, and then the very next game Wilson literally EXPLODES and catches everything in sight and becomes the darling of everybody!

Third, no one thinks that it is ODD that Mims after obstinately one good game is going to get reps with Davis when Davis returns after not being even on the ACTIVE ROSTER!  How is that possible???????

Folks felt that Mims should be traded and with good reason, for the fact that the Jets coaching staff wouldn't even put him on the game-day active roster. 

The fact was Mims wasn't even deemed as good as that all-time great Jeff Smith, he of the average, do nothing, of special team plays. 

Think....Mims couldn't get on the active roster??  He must have stunk right?

Do you think that with say Brian Daboll we would be having these problems? 

And for another thread, I think with Daboll grooming Wilson we would see a different Zach Wilson QBing out there on Sunday afternoons!  The fact is what Daboll did to improve first Josh Allen and then David Jones is NOT A COINCIDENCE! Coaching matters!

Look Lafleur is a nice guy, I like him, and he definitely knows offense but the basic fact is he doesn't know how to be a complete OC just yet and Saleh skillfully stepped in yet again, leading without bringing his guy Lafleur down. 

I for one just hope that Saleh is right in leaving the offensive side of the ball fully in Lafleur's hands, but I for one said Mims had star potential and so I am definitely BIASED and I may be wrong.............................................

But IMO Lafleur hasn't shown me yet that he knows how to get everyone involved in the Jets offense and that is a BIG PROBLEM.

Don't believe me????   Go go ask Elijah Moore.....

Let's Go Jets!

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's the coaches' prerogative not to play him in order to send a message.  But in terms of his value as an asset, I think he's worth more to the Jets in the long-term than he'd be worth in any trade this offseason.  

As for it having "nothing to do with Wilson", it did when Wilson first returned.  Moore's snap count did not immediately drop when Wilson entered the lineup.  Yet Moore received 9 targets in Week 3 with Flacco but only 8 total over the next 2 weeks with Wilson.  Then 0 the following week.  His snap count began to drop precipitously but it wasn't immediate. 

It's a combination of Wilson not looking for/finding him, Moore responding to that poorly, and the coaching staff punishing him for it.  

Maybe but his numbers weren’t good with Flacco. Flacco may have thrown a few more balls his way, but he wasn’t completing a lot of them.

According to Hughes, Moore was frustrated with his targets in the FIRST THREE games and was hoping they would INCREASE once Wilson started playing. Then, he had the blowup with Lafleur after they actually decreased and getting no official targets in GB. 
 
sounds to me like Moore has a beef with the offensive coaches/system and how they are using him and also may have a warped view of how good he is.

I think Moore has to hope Mims doesn’t break out. 

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8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Maybe but his numbers weren’t good with Flacco. Flacco may have thrown a few more balls his way, but he wasn’t completing a lot of them.

According to Hughes, Moore was frustrated with his targets in the FIRST THREE games and was hoping they would INCREASE once Wilson started playing. Then, he had the blowup with Lafleur after they actually decreased and getting no official targets in GB. 
 
sounds to me like Moore has a beef with the offensive coaches/system and how they are using him and also may have a warped view of how good he is.

I think Moore has to hope Mims doesn’t break out. 

What you say makes sense, since it was well-documented that his initial complaints went to the coaches, not Zach Wilson.  

But he was still absolutely right!  His targets and usage SHOULD have increased, because Wilson isn't a 37-year old corpse.  Even those of us who despise Wilson acknowledge at this point that Flacco indeed sucks.  It makes sense that, once the supposed FQB comes under center, who he looks for is going to be pretty important.  After all, Saleh has already stated that Wilson won't be benched except for injury.  This was never going to head in a good direction for Moore.

Sure, maybe Moore should have been the one to try to develop a better relationship with Wilson.  But Wilson has to get at least SOME blame for the chemistry aspect, too.  

This obviously isn't a scrub we're talking about.  He was highly drafted AND productive as a rookie.  The entrance of Garrett Wilson onto the scene shouldn't have derailed his productivity/usage this much.  Maybe the coaches will work some magic like they did with Mims in terms of getting Moore to "buy in", but Wilson will still need to look for him when he gets on the field for this for the relationship between Moore and the coaching staff to work out, at least until a new QB1 arrives.

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48 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Mims elevation is CLEARLY a Saleh move and one that I do not think that Mike Lafleur was EVER going to make!

How do I know?

Listen closely............. you NEVER hear Lafleur make these positive statements about Mims first, when he should be the one who is touting his players and getting them on the field.  Notice Saleh's statement comes AFTER the Lafleur presser in which he barely mentions Mims.

Second, the whole "Mims doesn't Run the Whole Route Tree" was actually used against Garrett Wilson in the first games.  Lafleur actaually said that Garrett Wilson needed to know the "whole route tree" before being featured, folks complained, saying that Wilson was the best WR on the field. 

Interestingly Saleh said in that very next presser after those complaints that he thought Garrett should get more touches, and then the very next game Wilson literally EXPLODES and catches everything in sight and becomes the darling of everybody!

Third, no one thinks that it is ODD that Mims after obstinately one good game is going to get reps with Davis when Davis returns after not being even on the ACTIVE ROSTER!  How is that possible???????

Folks felt that Mims should be traded and with good reason, for the fact that the Jets coaching staff wouldn't even put him on the game-day active roster. 

The fact was Mims wasn't even deemed as good as that all-time great Jeff Smith, he of the average, do nothing, of special team plays. 

Think....Mims couldn't get on the active roster??  He must have stunk right?

Do you think that with say Brian Daboll we would be having these problems? 

And for another thread, I think with Daboll grooming Wilson we would see a different Zach Wilson QBing out there on Sunday afternoons!  The fact is what Daboll did to improve first Josh Allen and then David Jones is NOT A COINCIDENCE! Coaching matters!

Look Lafleur is a nice guy, I like him, and he definitely knows offense but the basic fact is he doesn't know how to be a complete OC just yet and Saleh skillfully stepped in yet again, leading without bringing his guy Lafleur down. 

I for one just hope that Saleh is right in leaving the offensive side of the ball fully in Lafleur's hands, but I for one said Mims had star potential and so I am definitely BIASED and I may be wrong.............................................

But IMO Lafleur hasn't shown me yet that he knows how to get everyone involved in the Jets offense and that is a BIG PROBLEM.

Don't believe me????   Go go ask Elijah Moore.....

Let's Go Jets!

This is a stretch.  Saleh was specifically asked about Mimsy in his press conference.  Lafleur was not.

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1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

Mims elevation is CLEARLY a Saleh move and one that I do not think that Mike Lafleur was EVER going to make!

How do I know?

Listen closely............. you NEVER hear Lafleur make these positive statements about Mims first, when he should be the one who is touting his players and getting them on the field.  Notice Saleh's statement comes AFTER the Lafleur presser in which he barely mentions Mims.

Second, the whole "Mims doesn't Run the Whole Route Tree" was actually used against Garrett Wilson in the first games.  Lafleur actaually said that Garrett Wilson needed to know the "whole route tree" before being featured, folks complained, saying that Wilson was the best WR on the field. 

Interestingly Saleh said in that very next presser after those complaints that he thought Garrett should get more touches, and then the very next game Wilson literally EXPLODES and catches everything in sight and becomes the darling of everybody!

Third, no one thinks that it is ODD that Mims after obstinately one good game is going to get reps with Davis when Davis returns after not being even on the ACTIVE ROSTER!  How is that possible???????

Folks felt that Mims should be traded and with good reason, for the fact that the Jets coaching staff wouldn't even put him on the game-day active roster. 

The fact was Mims wasn't even deemed as good as that all-time great Jeff Smith, he of the average, do nothing, of special team plays. 

Think....Mims couldn't get on the active roster??  He must have stunk right?

Do you think that with say Brian Daboll we would be having these problems? 

And for another thread, I think with Daboll grooming Wilson we would see a different Zach Wilson QBing out there on Sunday afternoons!  The fact is what Daboll did to improve first Josh Allen and then David Jones is NOT A COINCIDENCE! Coaching matters!

Look Lafleur is a nice guy, I like him, and he definitely knows offense but the basic fact is he doesn't know how to be a complete OC just yet and Saleh skillfully stepped in yet again, leading without bringing his guy Lafleur down. 

I for one just hope that Saleh is right in leaving the offensive side of the ball fully in Lafleur's hands, but I for one said Mims had star potential and so I am definitely BIASED and I may be wrong.............................................

But IMO Lafleur hasn't shown me yet that he knows how to get everyone involved in the Jets offense and that is a BIG PROBLEM.

Don't believe me????   Go go ask Elijah Moore.....

Let's Go Jets!

ML said Mims block on the Breece Hall long TD was crucial. He spoke well of Mims after the Denver game.

ML does like his WRs to know multiple positions. He has said that there’s no true slot in his system which is why we sometimes see Davis in the slot. He does make exceptions though. Made it for Wilson. And Berrios has a very defined role.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What you say makes sense, since it was well-documented that his initial complaints went to the coaches, not Zach Wilson.  

But he was still absolutely right!  His targets and usage SHOULD have increased, because Wilson isn't a 37-year old corpse.  Even those of us who despise Wilson acknowledge at this point that Flacco indeed sucks.  It makes sense that, once the supposed FQB comes under center, who he looks for is going to be pretty important.  After all, Saleh has already stated that Wilson won't be benched except for injury.  This was never going to head in a good direction for Moore.

Sure, maybe Moore should have been the one to try to develop a better relationship with Wilson.  But Wilson has to get at least SOME blame for the chemistry aspect, too.  

This obviously isn't a scrub we're talking about.  He was highly drafted AND productive as a rookie.  The entrance of Garrett Wilson onto the scene shouldn't have derailed his productivity/usage this much.  Maybe the coaches will work some magic like they did with Mims in terms of getting Moore to "buy in", but Wilson will still need to look for him when he gets on the field for this to work out.

I maintain that the biggest issue with Moore earlier this year is that they were using him wrong - playing him at the X and having him run deep routes and generally not using him in the slot. 
 

I also think this is an offense with a lot of weapons that throws the ball a lot to the backs and TEs. But it’s very telling to me that GW already has two 100 yards games this year and CD has just about every other consequential catch made by a WR. 
 

I agree that Wilson has to look for him when he’s on the field, but I already suspect that the coaching staff might be burying him and  I worry about his snap count going forward.  Maybe I’m wrong. 

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1 hour ago, BigRy56 said:

It's becoming very clear that the Jets will only operate with team first guys who just STFU and get to work. The formula is there for E. Moore - he may be the next one to get the 'Mims treatment'

That is all this is. Moore is better but the jets don't want these cancers to grow.  If you are a malcontent there is no place for you until you figure that out. 

Moore is acting like his boy  AJ brown without all of Browns actual success. 

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1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

Mims elevation is CLEARLY a Saleh move and one that I do not think that Mike Lafleur was EVER going to make!

How do I know?

Listen closely............. you NEVER hear Lafleur make these positive statements about Mims first, when he should be the one who is touting his players and getting them on the field.  Notice Saleh's statement comes AFTER the Lafleur presser in which he barely mentions Mims.

Second, the whole "Mims doesn't Run the Whole Route Tree" was actually used against Garrett Wilson in the first games.  Lafleur actaually said that Garrett Wilson needed to know the "whole route tree" before being featured, folks complained, saying that Wilson was the best WR on the field. 

Interestingly Saleh said in that very next presser after those complaints that he thought Garrett should get more touches, and then the very next game Wilson literally EXPLODES and catches everything in sight and becomes the darling of everybody!

Third, no one thinks that it is ODD that Mims after obstinately one good game is going to get reps with Davis when Davis returns after not being even on the ACTIVE ROSTER!  How is that possible???????

Folks felt that Mims should be traded and with good reason, for the fact that the Jets coaching staff wouldn't even put him on the game-day active roster. 

The fact was Mims wasn't even deemed as good as that all-time great Jeff Smith, he of the average, do nothing, of special team plays. 

Think....Mims couldn't get on the active roster??  He must have stunk right?

Do you think that with say Brian Daboll we would be having these problems? 

And for another thread, I think with Daboll grooming Wilson we would see a different Zach Wilson QBing out there on Sunday afternoons!  The fact is what Daboll did to improve first Josh Allen and then David Jones is NOT A COINCIDENCE! Coaching matters!

Look Lafleur is a nice guy, I like him, and he definitely knows offense but the basic fact is he doesn't know how to be a complete OC just yet and Saleh skillfully stepped in yet again, leading without bringing his guy Lafleur down. 

I for one just hope that Saleh is right in leaving the offensive side of the ball fully in Lafleur's hands, but I for one said Mims had star potential and so I am definitely BIASED and I may be wrong.............................................

But IMO Lafleur hasn't shown me yet that he knows how to get everyone involved in the Jets offense and that is a BIG PROBLEM.

Don't believe me????   Go go ask Elijah Moore.....

Let's Go Jets!

Summary:

i was right from the beginning

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Moore did very little in his 3 games with Flacoo, though. He hasn’t been good this year. Find me the plays where Wilson has missed E Moore being open. And now his snaps are getting trimmed. 

Wilson hasn’t been very good this year. Moore’s snaps are getting trimmed in the wake of him requesting a trade that partially happened 

If one of those guys has played well in their career, it’s Moore.

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Once Davis is back, Moore will be inactive each week.  And he has no one to blame but himself.

Mimsy set the standard for how a New York Jet operates when things dont go your way.  Shut your mouth, put your head down and work, and when you are asked to step up, you do it.

Now Mimsy is being rewarded for his actions and honestly, he set a great example for everyone on the team!

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10 minutes ago, derp said:

Wilson hasn’t been very good this year. Moore’s snaps are getting trimmed in the wake of him requesting a trade that partially happened 

If one of those guys has played well in their career, it’s Moore.

Right, but this has nothing to do with my point.

also not sure what you mean by “partially happened” 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's the coaches' prerogative not to play him in order to send a message.  But in terms of his value as an asset, I think he's worth more to the Jets in the long-term than he'd be worth in any trade this offseason.  

As for it having "nothing to do with Wilson", it did when Wilson first returned.  Moore's snap count did not immediately drop when Wilson entered the lineup.  Yet Moore received 9 targets in Week 3 with Flacco but only 8 total over the next 2 weeks with Wilson.  Then 0 the following week.  His snap count began to drop precipitously; in that 3rd game with the 0 targets he only got 54 % of the snaps compared to nearly 70 % in Week 4....but it wasn't an immediate drop when Wilson replaced Flacco.

It's a combination of Wilson not looking for/finding him, Moore responding to that poorly, and the coaching staff punishing him for it.  

He has his most productive game with wilson. He did nothing with Flacco throwing it all over the field. Moore lost his sh*t after one game (packers). His beef is with lefleur/organization and the fact that he is pissed/jelous that they drafted GW

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1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

Interesting take.  I do think LaFleur tends to lock into his system and drives his players to fit in vs. adapting some concepts to fit the talent. With Gase, he was smart enough to know that Robby would never be confused with Amari Cooper in his route running, but could run like the wind and had excellent technique on deep routes. So he used him that way and had some decent success.  Some of this is on Mims too.  He's had a tough time when he's played gaining separation.  Some of that could be his technique and some of that could be the routes he's been asked to run don't necessarily fit with his strengths.  If you are right, it'll be interesting how Zach is handled the rest of the season - whether LaFleur is left alone or whether Saleh starts pushing for some adjustments in game planning/design. 

I agree with you 100% here.

I am not saying that the player is always right or should be coddled.  What I do believe though is that players have to be in positions to succeed and that Mike LaFleur is not always doing that and that may be one of the hidden reasons why Greg Knapp's untimely loss may not ever be truly realized.

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13 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Right, but this has nothing to do with my point.

also not sure what you mean by “partially happened” 

I got distracted mid stream while caring for an infant haha. The point was that Moore’s snap reduction almost certainly has an off field component and isn’t just about his play.

If I’m following the exchange correctly you said that Wilson would benefit from taller players, I said it’s premature to build around Wilson and a better QB should be able to utilize Moore, you said Moore wasn’t good this season, and I said neither was Wilson.

So either I’m circling back to the original point while you’re going in a separate direction, or I missed something in the exchange. I kind of figured the discussion was centered around building the passing game and how they should approach.

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

They would love nothing more (Moore?) than to have Mims show he can replace Corey Davis so that they can save some $$$ next year.

A Garrett Wilson, Mims, Moore, Berrios, Jeff Smith group could be pretty good.

Jeff Smith needs to be gone. 

Replace Smith with a rookie or 2.

Cedric Tillman, A.T. Perry or Jonathan Mingo

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Just now, derp said:

I got distracted mid stream while caring for an infant haha.

If I’m following the exchange correctly you said that Wilson would benefit from taller players, I said it’s premature to build around Wilson and a better QB should be able to utilize Moore, you said Moore wasn’t good this season, and I said neither was Wilson. So either I’m circling back to the original point while you’re going in a separate direction, or I missed something in the exchange.

Right, I wrote that Wilson seems to like taller WRs and wouldn't be surprised if Mims and him started to gel a bit. I wouldn't necessarily say that Moore and Wilson can't get on track together. Also, one key point I made is that Moore wasn't good with Flacco, either. He had more targets with Flacco playing (with Flacco throwing a lot more than Wilson did up until this last game), but those two still weren't hooking up very efficiently. I also pointed out that Moore was supposedly unhappy BEFORE Wilson even played a snap this season and was actually hoping that his targets would INCREASE with Wilson playing. Hence, there is reason to think that Moore's main issue is with the offense/OC. Both GW and CD have contributed more than Moore this season, regardless of which QB was throwing them the ball. 

I think the main issue with Moore is that we haven't used him very well this year. He has gotten no reverses or handoffs that I can remember (maybe there are one or two I am not remembering?), very few screen passes, and hasn't been used in the slot nearly enough, IMO. Then, since his blowup with the coaching staff, his playing time has been drastically cut. Basically, I'm not convinced that Moore's issues magically go away with a better/different QB. 

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31 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

He has his most productive game with wilson. He did nothing with Flacco throwing it all over the field. Moore lost his sh*t after one game (packers). His beef is with lefleur/organization and the fact that he is pissed/jelous that they drafted GW

Thought you had me on ignore big guy

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This is a stretch.  Saleh was specifically asked about Mimsy in his press conference.  Lafleur was not.

It may be a stretch but you ignore the fact that Saleh could have just said "we will see and that it is a LaFleur decision when he didn't. Mims is a nobody according to most so why offer that

Indeed, the same pattern was utilized with Jeff Ulbriich and Q.

Think Q blows up on the sidelines at c DL coach about DC play calling, Saleh comes out in the press conference subtly hinting that Q is right, and PRESTO the Jets changed their defensive philosophy about mindless rotation.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's the coaches' prerogative not to play him in order to send a message.  But in terms of his value as an asset, I think he's worth more to the Jets in the long-term than he'd be worth in any trade this offseason.  

As for it having "nothing to do with Wilson", it did when Wilson first returned.  Moore's snap count did not immediately drop when Wilson entered the lineup.  Yet Moore received 9 targets in Week 3 with Flacco but only 8 total over the next 2 weeks with Wilson.  Then 0 the following week.  His snap count began to drop precipitously; in that 3rd game with the 0 targets he only got 54 % of the snaps compared to nearly 70 % in Week 4....but it wasn't an immediate drop when Wilson replaced Flacco.

It's a combination of Wilson not looking for/finding him, Moore responding to that poorly, and the coaching staff punishing him for it.  

Flacco had 156 attempts in 3 games.  In Zach's first 3 games all wins he had 76 attempts.   Moore had 139 total yards in 3 games where Flacco threw for over 900 yards.  

Moore's most productive game was against Pittsburgh with Zach Wilson throwing him the ball.   In the Pittsburgh game he had an astounding 53 yards on 3 receptions.  By far his best and most productive game.

If Moore wants to be on a crappy team that's trailing and throwing the ball 50 times so he can get stats to leverage in a second contract the NY Jets should accomodate him.  He sucked on a crappy team and he has sucked worse on a good team.   

 

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I maintain that the biggest issue with Moore earlier this year is that they were using him wrong - playing him at the X and having him run deep routes and generally not using him in the slot. 

I can partially agree with this.  I think the whole reason he fell to the Jets is that he was viewed as a less valuable slot guy, whereas the Jets viewed him as a versatile inside/outside piece.  At this point, they just need to admit the mistake and primarily use him out of the slot.  At least 70+ % of his snaps or so.

 

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I also think this is an offense with a lot of weapons that throws the ball a lot to the backs and TEs. But it’s very telling to me that GW already has two 100 yards games this year and CD has just about every other consequential catch made by a WR. 

The only WR routes that Wilson has seen any consistent success are on posts and slants.  You or @Paradis can correct me if I'm wrong, but post routes in particular favor guys like G Wilson and Davis.  Only slants would benefit Moore, and only when he's used out of the slot.  

It may well be "telling" and Moore indeed isn't as good as those guys, but after seeing his success as a rookie I find that hard to believe.  I'll need more info before determining Moore is anything but a solid young WR being held hostage by a QB who is incapable of finding him. 

 

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I agree that Wilson has to look for him when he’s on the field, but I already suspect that the coaching staff might be burying him and  I worry about his snap count going forward.  Maybe I’m wrong. 

Burying him the remainder of the season makes sense at this point, unfortunately.  We can't afford to be giving high-leverage playing time to Moore this deep into the season at the risk of derailing a potential playoff season.  Mims is a big-bodied guy who Wilson is clearly looking for.  Might as well use him instead.

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52 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Once Davis is back, Moore will be inactive each week.  And he has no one to blame but himself.

Mimsy set the standard for how a New York Jet operates when things dont go your way.  Shut your mouth, put your head down and work, and when you are asked to step up, you do it.

Now Mimsy is being rewarded for his actions and honestly, he set a great example for everyone on the team!

Then why didn't we just trade him? 

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12 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Flacco had 156 attempts in 3 games.  In Zach's first 3 games all wins he had 76 attempts.   Moore had 139 total yards in 3 games where Flacco threw for over 900 yards.  

Moore's most productive game was against Pittsburgh with Zach Wilson throwing him the ball.   In the Pittsburgh game he had an astounding 53 yards on 3 receptions.  By far his best and most productive game.

If Moore wants to be on a crappy team that's trailing and throwing the ball 50 times so he can get stats to leverage in a second contract the NY Jets should accomodate him.  He sucked on a crappy team and he has sucked worse on a good team.   

This sudden "Moore sucks and always sucked" argument would have legs if he wasn't the team's leading receiver in 2021.  In non-Wilson games, he put up the following lines:

  • vs CIN:  6 catches (6 targets), 67 yards
  • @ IND:  7 catches (8 targets), 84 yards, 2 TDs
  • vs BUF:  3 catches (6 targets), 44 yards, 1 TD
  • vs MIA:  8 catches (11 targets), 141 yards, 1 TD

He was a monster for that 4-week period.  How do you reconcile that with what we've seen in 2022? 

Flacco is clearly toast now (the wall can come quick for aging QBs, that's for sure), so you can't exactly penalize him for not putting up monster numbers this year when he JUST DID THAT in 2021, with 3 different QBs not named Zach Wilson.   

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30 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Right, I wrote that Wilson seems to like taller WRs and wouldn't be surprised if Mims and him started to gel a bit. I wouldn't necessarily say that Moore and Wilson can't get on track together. Also, one key point I made is that Moore wasn't good with Flacco, either. He had more targets with Flacco playing (with Flacco throwing a lot more than Wilson did up until this last game), but those two still weren't hooking up very efficiently. I also pointed out that Moore was supposedly unhappy BEFORE Wilson even played a snap this season and was actually hoping that his targets would INCREASE with Wilson playing. Hence, there is reason to think that Moore's main issue is with the offense/OC. Both GW and CD have contributed more than Moore this season, regardless of which QB was throwing them the ball. 

I think the main issue with Moore is that we haven't used him very well this year. He has gotten no reverses or handoffs that I can remember (maybe there are one or two I am not remembering?), very few screen passes, and hasn't been used in the slot nearly enough, IMO. Then, since his blowup with the coaching staff, his playing time has been drastically cut. Basically, I'm not convinced that Moore's issues magically go away with a better/different QB. 

Perhaps I’m looking at Moore versus Wilson and you’re looking at Moore? My point was more that I wouldn’t build an offense around Wilson based on what he’s shown to date - given your post about getting Wilson size.

I do think you’re overemphasizing a small, three game sample for Moore - which is why I think last year is relevant. He came into this season with a lot of hype because he gets open a lot, and with Flacco he got open a lot. Then little usage with Wilson and a blowup. 

I see you pointing at his usage as a problem in other posts which I totally agree with. Genuinely think he’s a good football player. There are a few reasons for his lack of production. And then his attitude has just been brutal.

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