The Jets are GOOD, and Zach Wilson sucks.

[derp]

35 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Football Outsiders had an interesting take:

I get what they're saying but it feels like they're gonna knock Wilson regardless of what he does at this point.

I do think we need to be realistic and realise that if the best we get from Wilson are games like today, even if it's legitimate progress, we should still bring in legit competition for 2023 - Either he becomes what we want and wins the job or we give the team the best chance. 

This team around the QB is all kinds of legit. Next year we have to make the leap to expecting success and you can't coddle and hide a QB when doing that.

Honestly even if he does better than this they need to improve the rest of the QB room. The rest of the roster is loaded. Wilson’s missed games both years. Add a developmental backup somewhere in the draft, see if you get lucky there, and a competent veteran. Can’t have too much good QB play.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This team hasn't won a Super Bowl in 50+ years.  If we want to win one then there are going to be games where our starting QB has to not just play solid/mistake-free football, but also be a difference maker.  That's the part we haven't seen from Zach yet. 

And I'm not saying he doesn't have the ability to get there.  In fact, I do think he has it in him.  But one of these weeks we need to see it.  And I know this wasn't the week we needed that from him so you can hold off on those responses.  I get it.  But there will be a day.

Btw, I realize most people on here are not mature enough to hear that point after a terrific win like we just experienced.  But it's really not a controversial thing to say at all when you think about it. 

Pittsburgh didn’t count?  He made quite a few “do or die” throws in the tightest of windows on 3rd and 4th downs, in the money quarter, the 4th quarter.  Jets are #1 in the NFL in 4th quarter scoring.  Wilson doesn’t get all the accolades for that, just a fact showing that Joe Douglas is building a very dangerous team.

[Jet2020]

Sanchez was good yesterday. I mean Zach. Give credit where it’s due. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I’m sorry Zach Wilson has not fulfilled your eminently reasonable standard of having an mvp season during the course of his first 1.5 seasons of pro ball to avoid criticism of a performance that was everything except bad.

Not even 1.5 seasons, which is now in the neighborhood of 25 games.  I think yesterday was his 19th game.  Also, and the haters won’t care about this, he Missed ALL preseason this year.  Not unfair to suggest that he needed a little time to get his legs under him playing this season.

He pretty much just Started his 2nd season around now.

[TuscanyTile2]

9 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Pittsburgh didn’t count?  He made quite a few “do or die” throws in the tightest of windows on 3rd and 4th downs, in the money quarter, the 4th quarter.  Jets are #1 in the NFL in 4th quarter scoring.  Wilson doesn’t get all the accolades for that, just a fact showing that Joe Douglas is building a very dangerous team.

He played really well in that 4Q in Pittsburgh.  It certainly counts.  

[Barry McCockinner]

Weird thread after he just played what I thought was probably the best game of his career against one of the best defenses in the league. He was for the most part on time and on target, and took off running a couple of times where it was appropriate. He did have a couple of off target passes but not nearly as much as usual and he wasn't bailing on clean pockets and doing laps in the backfield. He threw the ball away when necessary and took the sack when necessary. 

All in all he looked like an NFL QB yesterday in a big boy divisional game and was part of the reason the team won.

[Sonny Werblin]

51 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He played very well yesterday.  But just because we won a huge game yesterday doesn't mean we don't need more from him.  On the game winning drive he threw 1 pass (IIRC), albeit an important one.  The defense and the running game were the stars yesterday.  Right now it looks like the only thing that separates the Jets from being a real contender is whether or not Zach can take the next step.  And he has the ability to get there.

I will just accept that their are those, including you, whose evaluative curve for Wilson will always bend away from objectivity.

i fail to see how he could’ve done more than was asked of him, and the O lineman praised Zach for getting the Jets into good running plays. 

[Trotter]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Weird thread after he just played what I thought was probably the best game of his career against one of the best defenses in the league. He was for the most part on time and on target, and took off running a couple of times where it was appropriate. He did have a couple of off target passes but not nearly as much as usual and he wasn't bailing on clean pockets and doing laps in the backfield. He threw the ball away when necessary and took the sack when necessary. 

All in all he looked like an NFL QB yesterday in a big boy divisional game and was part of the reason the team won.

Sums it up nicely for me.

accurate assessment

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I will just accept that their are those, including you, whose evaluative curve for Wilson will always bend away from objectivity.

i fail to see how he could’ve done more than was asked of him, and the O lineman praised Zach for getting the Jets into good running plays. 

You've completely missed the point again.  He played fine yesterday.  There is still a bigger picture to consider.   The defense and running game (including the OL) were the most responsible for the win.  In the game winning drive, it was almost all runs.  Zach hasn't had his signature game yet.  If we have bigger plans then we're going to need more from him.  And that ISN'T a criticism of how he played yesterday.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

14 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He played really well in that 4Q in Pittsburgh.  It certainly counts.  

Which PROVES he can do it.  It doesn’t prove he can do that consistently but time will tell, he just started his 2nd season.

Everyone take a step back and give him a chance.

[Sonny Werblin]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You've completely missed the point again.  He played fine yesterday.  There is still a bigger picture to consider.   The defense and running game (including the OL) were the most responsible for the win.  In the game winning drive, it was almost all runs.  Zach hasn't had his signature game yet.  If we have bigger plans then we're going to need more from him.  And that ISN'T a criticism of how he played yesterday.

Your assessment of He played “fine” speaks volumes.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You've completely missed the point again.  He played fine yesterday.  There is still a bigger picture to consider.   The defense and running game (including the OL) were the most responsible for the win.  In the game winning drive, it was almost all runs.  Zach hasn't had his signature game yet.  If we have bigger plans then we're going to need more from him.  And that ISN'T a criticism of how he played yesterday.

Why because you don’t believe a QB can win a game for a team unless he throws for some arbitrary # of yards?  
Meanwhile the OP and those who wanted Fields claim he’s played much better QB with around 65 less yardage per game.  
He outplayed the leagues best QB and won the game but he didn’t actually win the game?    

[The Crusher]

I once said the team a QB go’s to is almost as important as to the QB himself. Seems the Staff  and Zach got one right last night. Since Bills are likely one of the top three teams in the league that’s very encouraging. 

[Greensleeves]

D-U-M-P, Dump, Dump, Dump

Troll just trying to bring other Jets fans down after one of the best wins in the last 12 years. Go AWAY!

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Which PROVES he can do it.  It doesn’t prove he can do that consistently but time will tell, he just started his 2nd season.

Everyone take a step back and give him a chance.

I know he has a lot of potential.  What matters is if he realizes it.  It feels like this team has a chance to legitimately contend.  ZW needs to be at the forefront at some point if that's going to happen though.  Again, not a knock on his game yesterday.  I'm just saying that he hasn't "arrived" yet.  And we need him to.

[Greensleeves]

9 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Which PROVES he can do it.  It doesn’t prove he can do that consistently but time will tell, he just started his 2nd season.

Everyone take a step back and give him a chance.

That's what I have a problem with, people not acting like he DID play really well. Zach improved in every aspect of his game from last week under immense pressure from his performance against the Pats. Media and fans killed him. He responded against the top D in the league. It's amazing to me how many fans completely disregard the level of competition and how poised and decisive he was the whole game. Not sure how many of you on the board have been in high level competition and have experienced losing a bad match/game and having to come back and be mentally tough and win the next one. It's not easy. He passed the mental strength test with flying colors and outplayed whom many believe is the MVP of the league.

[Sonny Werblin]

I’m sorry but people who think Wilson is not doing well are insane. He’s 5-1 with only 1 bad game, and that was against Bill Bellichick, who makes it a habit to make opposing QBs look bad. Wilson is barely in his second year and he is doing exactly what the jets envisioned. They do not, and have never, wanted him to carry play. They want the team to raise him up and allow him the time and space to develop. What you saw against Buffalo is exactly what the brain trust of the Jets envisioned when they drafted Wilson. 

Also, unless there is some type of conspiracy afoot, his teammates seem to genuinely like him and feel he’s a good leader with a great future.

[TuscanyTile2]

11 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Your assessment of He played “fine” speaks volumes.

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Why because you don’t believe a QB can win a game for a team unless he throws for some arbitrary # of yards?  
Meanwhile the OP and those who wanted Fields claim he’s played much better QB with around 65 less yardage per game.  
He outplayed the leagues best QB and won the game but he didn’t actually win the game?    

Guys, don't get bogged down here.  Great win yesterday.  ZW took a step.  He needs to take more steps though.  The team around him looks like it might be great.  Probably the biggest question mark is STILL if Zach can take the leap.  And that is NOT a knock on the way he played yesterday.

[Facts]

10 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Both can be true.

It was true with the 09/10 Jets and Sanchez.  You green googled homers will eventually see.

Pretty much spot on.

But he had some good throws at times yesterday. That click 3rd down strike to Mims made me dick a little hard.

[Sonny Werblin]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Guys, don't get bogged down here.  Great win yesterday.  ZW took a step.  He needs to take more steps though.  The team around him looks like it might be great.  Probably the biggest question mark is STILL if Zach can take the leap.  And that is NOT a knock on the way he played yesterday.

What puzzles me is that you couch your posts with the continual assertion that Zach needs to get better. So, that means he’s not where you think he should be after about 17 pro starts and missing this year’s preseason?

Is that correct? If so, enlighten me with where you think he should be development-wise at the current moment.

[batman10023]

10 hours ago, Jet Life said:

Panthers Sam Darnold fan is giving QB opinions. Thanks but no thanks 

don't tell me that poster liked Sam Darnold.  LOL.  

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

What puzzles me is that you couch your posts with the continual assertion that Zach needs to get better. So, that means he’s not where you think he should be after about 17 pro starts and missing this year’s preseason?

Is that correct? If so, enlighten me with where you think he should be development-wise at the current moment.

A week ago just about everyone on this forum thought that way.  Then he played a solid game yesterday and suddenly it's sacrilege to say he still needs to get better?

[Biggs]

18 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You've completely missed the point again.  He played fine yesterday.  There is still a bigger picture to consider.   The defense and running game (including the OL) were the most responsible for the win.  In the game winning drive, it was almost all runs.  Zach hasn't had his signature game yet.  If we have bigger plans then we're going to need more from him.  And that ISN'T a criticism of how he played yesterday.

There is no point to miss.  You have no clue what you're talking about.  The Jets dominated TOP in the second half.  Buffalo didn't have a lot of possessions in the second half.  4 maybe.  One of the reasons was Zach lead a 12 play drive to open the 3rd quarter.  A drive dominated by his passing and running the football on a scramble.  A drive that killed more than half the 3rd quarter.  The Bills D was reeling until a long delay caused by a camera failure gave their D a big time blow.  Miller gets a 10 plus minute blow having nothing to do with the actual game.  The only reason the strip sack happens.  In spite of that the drive limited Buffalo's offensive opportunities and was a key factor in winning the game.  

What happened after the strip sack?  The D got an INT right after it.  A well rested Jets D against a Buffalo O that was sitting on their bench forever.  What happened after we got the ball back.  GW run, followed by a Zach Wilson run and a Zach Wilson TD pass.  

Sorry your point is absurd.  That was a team win that included excellent QB play.

[Jetsplayer21]

Your pathetic aviator says it all ? give it up. darnold is garage, zack still has lot of growing to do. But he has a real chance to be good, unlike darnold who is as pathetic as any so called jets fan who has him in a panther jersey as his aviator ?

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

There is no point to miss.  You have no clue what you're talking about.  The Jets dominated TOP in the second half.  Buffalo didn't have a lot of possessions in the second half.  4 maybe.  One of the reasons was Zach lead a 12 play drive to open the 3rd quarter.  A drive dominated by his passing and running the football on a scramble.  A drive that killed more than half the 3rd quarter.  The Bills D was reeling until a long delay caused by a camera failure gave their D a big time blow.  Miller gets a 10 plus minute blow having nothing to do with the actual game.  The only reason the strip sack happens.  In spite of that the drive limited Buffalo's offensive opportunities and was a key factor in winning the game.  

What happened after the strip sack?  The D got an INT right after it.  A well rested Jets D against a Buffalo O that was sitting on their bench forever.  What happened after we got the ball back.  GW run, followed by a Zach Wilson run and a Zach Wilson TD pass.  

Sorry your point is absurd.  That was a team win that included excellent QB play.

Where do you rank Zach right now?  Is he "elite"?  Is he "excellent"?

To me, he's a young QB that is growing but still hasn't even hit his stride yet.  On most of his good weeks we hear people say that "he didn't have good stats but he didn't need them this week".   Prior to yesterday's game, the majority of the forum was very down on Zach.  He plays 1 solid game and suddenly you're not allowed to say he still needs to get better?

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Weird thread after he just played what I thought was probably the best game of his career against one of the best defenses in the league. He was for the most part on time and on target, and took off running a couple of times where it was appropriate. He did have a couple of off target passes but not nearly as much as usual and he wasn't bailing on clean pockets and doing laps in the backfield. He threw the ball away when necessary and took the sack when necessary. 

All in all he looked like an NFL QB yesterday in a big boy divisional game and was part of the reason the team won.

I think the jet coaches really got into him in practice last week, after such a horrible game with horrible mechanics and decision making. They been coddling him too much until that point. It is good to see he responded very well from the all around criticism, being called out. 

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Where do you rank Zach right now?  Is he "elite"?  Is he "excellent"?

To me, he's a young QB that is growing but still hasn't even hit his stride yet.  On most of his good weeks we hear people say that "he didn't have good stats but he didn't need them this week".   Prior to yesterday's game, the majority of the forum was very down on Zach.  He plays 1 solid game and suddenly you're not allowed to say he still needs to get better?

Who's saying you can't say what you want?  

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

28 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Where do you rank Zach right now?  Is he "elite"?  Is he "excellent"?

To me, he's a young QB that is growing but still hasn't even hit his stride yet.  On most of his good weeks we hear people say that "he didn't have good stats but he didn't need them this week".   Prior to yesterday's game, the majority of the forum was very down on Zach.  He plays 1 solid game and suddenly you're not allowed to say he still needs to get better?

So a work in progress? That is my crazy analysis.

I get the need for site histrionics, but this is the same message board that brought us:

-Fire Joe Douglas

-Fire Jeff Ulbrich

-Fire Robert Saleh

Sometimes it is smartest to just say "let's see what we got here". But what fun is that, right?

[sackdance]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You've completely missed the point again.  He played fine yesterday.  There is still a bigger picture to consider.   The defense and running game (including the OL) were the most responsible for the win.  In the game winning drive, it was almost all runs.  Zach hasn't had his signature game yet.  If we have bigger plans then we're going to need more from him.  And that ISN'T a criticism of how he played yesterday.

What the F is your point then? 

The Jets are 6-3, ZW is 5-1 as a starter, and we just won THE biggest game of the year before the bye as Zach unquestionably bounced back from last week's debacle.  

There is no bigger picture. The only picture is going to Gillette for payback in two weeks. That's it. 

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, JetsMetsDevilsPA said:

They must have banned midget porn.

That's a low blow if I ever seen one ?

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

A week ago just about everyone on this forum thought that way.  Then he played a solid game yesterday and suddenly it's sacrilege to say he still needs to get better?

You avoided the question. Where should he be right now in his development to be "on schedule: in your opinion?

[Gastineau Lives]

9 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

You avoided the question. Where should he be right now in his development to be "on schedule: in your opinion?

He should be putting up 350 yard, 4 td performances against three of the best five defenses in football, in games where his defense is keeping the other team from scoring, obviously, you know, like all the good quarterbacks do.

[football guy]

We as a fanbase have a tendency to be pessimistic, and while I have no real motivation to "convince" anyone to believe something one way or another, there are going to be a lot of people whether it be fans, media, analysts, or statistians who will be forced to eat crow RE: Zach Wilson because of the kneejerk reactions and premature conclusions. 

The Jets drafted Zach Wilson because they feel he has the kind of talent that guys like Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers possess, but they always knew expecting that kind of output was never going to happen overnight. What they've wanted out of Zach over the past 2 years is for him to learn how to play more like Kirk Cousins and Jimmy Garoppolo... To play within the offense. Knowing the play/concept, understanding/anticipating the different outcomes based on how the opponent defends a given play, getting the offense set, identifying the coverage pre-snap, administering the proper checks when necessary, and making a decisive decisions based on what the defense gives him. That's what makes the Shanahan offense is so "QB friendly"... Establish the run, dialing up high percentage throws that generate YAC, and attacking deep off play-action. The playbook is deep and there is a lot of nuance and responsibility expected of the QB, but once a QB masters the concepts and is able to diagnose how the defense is going to play them, the scheme allows the QB to kind of identify the open look pre-snap... just not every QB has the football IQ or processing ability to learn it and put it together on the field.

Robert Saleh has alluded a few times now that the time hasn't come yet where the Jets need Zach to be a hero every week, but it will. They didn't draft him #2 to be Cousins or Garoppolo, and they genuinely believe that he can evolve into an Aaron Rodgers/Patrick Mahomes-style player if he's able to learn how to play within the offense first and foremost. As that style of play becomes second nature to him, it'll make him a more decisive, efficient, and confident QB, which will ultimately unlock him as a playmaker. He's got 2 games under his belt this year where he pitched a complete game (MIA, BUF), but given the circumstances yesterday's performance was by far the most encouraging of the season thus far. The coaching staff will return to the lab and find more ways to get Elijah Moore going and generate more explosives out of the quick passing offense, which will likely generate more "gaudy" passing stats more consistently without asking Zach to toss it all over the yard. Even so, "stats" are not going to be the reason why Zach sinks or swims, but it should be enough to at least prove a lot of the doubters wrong. 

 

Will Zach be an elite, bonafide franchise QB? I have no idea. We won't know until he's able to marry his talent/playmaking ability with a level of consistency. But games like yesterday should give fans the kind of evidence they need to know that at the very least, he can be a Jimmy Garoppolo/Kirk Cousins level player, which may not be the ceiling we want but its far better than what people are suggesting he will be and more than enough to win in this league. 

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

12 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Both can be true.

It was true with the 09/10 Jets and Sanchez.  You green googled homers will eventually see.

Which is why it sthe smart thing to do to build the team and then add qb to it on the cheap, cause it don't work out the other way unless you have the best of the best qbs and even then not really.

 

Look hall going down was big but Zach sucking is bigger. He is like a less worse Sanchez.

[Jetluv58]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Wild that this is the most trafficked thread on this site since the game thread petered out. Jets fans raaaaage against negativity, but they love them some misery-threads. ?

I think it reflects the general “doom-scrolling” world we live in.