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7 hours ago, doitny said:

i am so glad half this board didnt get its way and we used the 4th or 10th pick on the OL. then we would have no Sause and or no GW.

and there is not one #1st rd pick on this line. i told you guys you could find good enough guys. are they great, no but there good enough. were not 6-3 if they were horrible. 

so next year we dont have to use that #1 pick on the line. as i see it were already set with LT Brown LG Laken, RG Herbig, RT AVT.  all we need is a center that we could get in rd 2. and i would resign McGovern. dont start a rookie center from day 1.

I remember reading that throughout the predraft scrum.  Your faith in the veteran offensive line pile is remarkable for a Jet fan.  No offense.

I consider the play of Brown and the emergence of Mitchell and Herbig to be nothing short of miracles.  Like walk on water stuff.    They are gelling.  A gelled offensive line covers up a whole lot of stuff.  It is also the mark of a very good team.  Nor is the pass blocking there yet.  But when we get everybody back . . .

As for next season, unless Herbig drops off the face of the earth - which I doubt - he will be extended and is due the salary of a starting right guard.  Guys, I know it is tough to say it but Herbig is outplaying AVT at RG.  And it is noticeable.  He pulls better.  Really squares his man on the move. 

EDIT: I had a TYPO.

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36 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

They put on a command performance yesterday. 

Brown played another excellent game.  His arrival stabilized the line and we started winning the battles on the line of scrimmage.  We simply cannot give old man Brown enough credit.  He is executing the zone scheme as if he has been playing it for years - which he has.  His play has been contagious. 

Thomlinson played a solid game and his movement skills - he is a pulling guard - were on display when we took it to them in the 4th quarter.  Again, this is an experienced zone scheme lineman.  It is not a surprise that we are beginning to gel. 

McGovern played his best ball since joining the green.  He did not get the glory - see below - but he kept picking up Thomlinson's and Herbig's opponents when we ran that crazy play which really F'ed up the Bills.  Those opponents did not get away.  Some fine play by the Center.  We were tight. 

Herbig is the glue on this line.  His pulls to the left on that crazy LaFleur play (the one with the end around where the WR runs around Zack like a telephone pole) are now the stuff of Jet legend.  Just watch the tape.  He kept smashing the poor bastard with weakside containment.  It was more than a morale crusher.  It was an actual crusher.  That play allows Herbig to take two or more steps before taking on his assignment.  He was blowing guys up.  I would say his play has come out of nowhere but it has not.  He has played well since we put him in the game.  Every team that comes together finds somebody like Herbig. 

The Mighty Og.  Look, I have to sing the virtues of our waiver wire friend.  He is a veteran and the coaches think he is the best guy left.  He has fought back since we put him in the game amidst the groans from all Jetdome (the loss of Mitchell hurt, but to see AVT join him really deflated the bag).  Guys, he has played pretty well.  I expect Fant and/or Mitchell to return after the bye.  So I can tell the Mighty Og this:

For the rest of your career, Jet fans will great you well.  Years from now when you hang them up, we will say your career may be over but you were somebody.  You were not a "never was".  That was a BIG win for the green and you were the starting right tackle. 

The funny thing about yesterday's game was that crazy play I mentioned above.  Somebody needs to post it.  We ran it so often that we used it as a vehicle for wrinkles and play action.  It left the Bills flatfooted and that let the Jets run the ball at them with authority.  One heck of a game. 

OG is a moose of a man.

I see #70 on the field yesterday and he just took me back. I am saying to myself - who the hell is that?

He played very well. 

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10 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

I remember reading that throughout the predraft scrum.  Your faith in the veteran offensive line pile is remarkable for a Jet fan.  No offense.

I consider the play of Brown and the emergence of Mitchell and Herbig to be nothing short of miracles.  Like walk on water stuff.    They are gelling.  A gelled offensive line covers up a whole lot of stuff.  It is also the mark of a very good team.  Nor is the pass blocking there yet.  But when we get everybody back . . .

As for next season, unless Herbig drops off the face of the earth - which I doubt - he will be extended and is due the salary of a starting right guard.  Guys, I know it is tough to say it but Herbig is outplaying AVT at LG.  And it is noticeable.  He pulls better.  Really squares his man on the move. 

i think AVT stays at RT with Brown at LT next year.

my faith was that the rest of the NFL doesnt go crazy in drafting the OL in rd 1. but some on this board think we had to have the best OL ever. use 1st rd picks everywhere. trade into the back of rd 1 to get Linderbaum a Center. 

so why cant we do the same? find guys in the later rds, FA ? some think cause the last time we were great we have to have a 1st rd LT and a 1st rd Center to be good.

we are no where as good without Sause. but that is what skill players are supposed to do. change games. we would be worst off if we picked some LT at 4 or 10

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33 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

I remember reading that throughout the predraft scrum.  Your faith in the veteran offensive line pile is remarkable for a Jet fan.  No offense.

I consider the play of Brown and the emergence of Mitchell and Herbig to be nothing short of miracles.  Like walk on water stuff.    They are gelling.  A gelled offensive line covers up a whole lot of stuff.  It is also the mark of a very good team.  Nor is the pass blocking there yet.  But when we get everybody back . . .

As for next season, unless Herbig drops off the face of the earth - which I doubt - he will be extended and is due the salary of a starting right guard.  Guys, I know it is tough to say it but Herbig is outplaying AVT at LG.  And it is noticeable.  He pulls better.  Really squares his man on the move. 

AVT was top 3 ranked G in the NFL before he moved to T. 

Herbig is fine, but let's hold off on this type of statement.

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Some factors that helped were Zach getting rid of the ball quickly and not creating his own pressure by vacating the pocket. 
 

Even in the Pats game I felt the protection was fine given the patchwork OL, but Zach’s play made it look worse. 
 

Also helps that we get some reinforcements back soon in Fant and Mitchell. 

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A few fans have mentioned it already, the O-line has to be a cohesive unit to be effective. Yesterday they really came together. They played for pride and they left it all on the field. Often times we really don't appreciate the physical exertion it takes for those big fellas, especially in the 4th quarter. They were outstanding.

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3 hours ago, clayton163v said:

They put on a command performance yesterday. 

Brown played another excellent game.  His arrival stabilized the line and we started winning the battles on the line of scrimmage.  We simply cannot give old man Brown enough credit.  He is executing the zone scheme as if he has been playing it for years - which he has.  His play has been contagious. 

Thomlinson played a solid game and his movement skills - he is a pulling guard - were on display when we took it to them in the 4th quarter.  Again, this is an experienced zone scheme lineman.  It is not a surprise that we are beginning to gel. 

McGovern played his best ball since joining the green.  He did not get the glory - see below - but he kept picking up Thomlinson's and Herbig's opponents when we ran that crazy play which really F'ed up the Bills.  Those opponents did not get away.  Some fine play by the Center.  We were tight. 

Herbig is the glue on this line.  His pulls to the left on that crazy LaFleur play (the one with the end around where the WR runs around Zack like a telephone pole) are now the stuff of Jet legend.  Just watch the tape.  He kept smashing the poor bastard with weakside containment.  It was more than a morale crusher.  It was an actual crusher.  That play allows Herbig to take two or more steps before taking on his assignment.  He was blowing guys up.  I would say his play has come out of nowhere but it has not.  He has played well since we put him in the game.  Every team that comes together finds somebody like Herbig. 

The Mighty Og.  Look, I have to sing the virtues of our waiver wire friend.  He is a veteran and the coaches think he is the best guy left.  He has fought back since we put him in the game amidst the groans from all Jetdome (the loss of Mitchell hurt, but to see AVT join him really deflated the bag).  Guys, he has played pretty well.  I expect Fant and/or Mitchell to return after the bye.  So I can tell the Mighty Og this:

For the rest of your career, Jet fans will great you well.  Years from now when you hang them up, we will say your career may be over but you were somebody.  You were not a "never was".  That was a BIG win for the green and you were the starting right tackle. 

The funny thing about yesterday's game was that crazy play I mentioned above.  Somebody needs to post it.  We ran it so often that we used it as a vehicle for wrinkles and play action.  It left the Bills flatfooted and that let the Jets run the ball at them with authority.  One heck of a game. 

our offensin line has to play well 

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That final drive was the stuff of dreams. Eight straight runs to impose your will and win the game against the best team in football. 
After that first run I knew we had them on the ropes. Every play I was yelling "FU Bills Defense, Effuuuuuu!!!"

One thing I'll give to LaFluer, he knows when to go all out "ground and pound" mode. I know the line was loving every minute of it.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Never saw a team on/continue a winning streak when it was down to its OT5 and OT6 at one point. When the team sucks, it's an excuse for losing. When the team doesn't, it's next man up. Nice to root for the latter for a change; it's been a while.

Not only that but our OL dominated yesterday.  

 

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3 hours ago, clayton163v said:

I remember reading that throughout the predraft scrum.  Your faith in the veteran offensive line pile is remarkable for a Jet fan.  No offense.

I consider the play of Brown and the emergence of Mitchell and Herbig to be nothing short of miracles.  Like walk on water stuff.    They are gelling.  A gelled offensive line covers up a whole lot of stuff.  It is also the mark of a very good team.  Nor is the pass blocking there yet.  But when we get everybody back . . .

As for next season, unless Herbig drops off the face of the earth - which I doubt - he will be extended and is due the salary of a starting right guard.  Guys, I know it is tough to say it but Herbig is outplaying AVT at LG.  And it is noticeable.  He pulls better.  Really squares his man on the move. 

This is completely false.

(Herbig plays RG)

That said - and I said this in another thread - the team is going to have a tough time re-signing some of its own FAs this offseason.

Here's our list of pending UFAs (excluding miscellaneous Greg Senats):

Fant, McGovern, Rankins, Flacco, Feeney, Joyner, White, Thomas, Zeurlein, Herbig, Curry, Remmers, Ogbuehi, Kwon, Harris, Sheppard, Quincy Williams, Ty Johnson, Parks

We also have Bryce Huff, James Robinson, and Jeff Smith as RFAs

That's our top 2 centers, 3 other OL who have started for us and our current depth tackle, our kicker, 3 members of the DT rotation, 2 of our top 3 LBs plus another depth LB, our starting S, both our backup QBs, two of our DEs (including our best pure pass-rusher), and a key RB.

Oh, and we also need to extend Quinnen.

We have a total of roughly 19M in projected cap room for next season - and the easiest way we can create more space is to cut the third of our top-three LBs.

For the first time in recent memory, we are going to lose good players to other teams because we have real talent that other teams will want and not enough cap space to resign everyone.  That means that guys like Herbig - who has absolutely played himself into a starting RG salary, has a cost-controlled replacement already on the roster (AVT), and will bring back a comp pick when he gets signed elsewhere - are absolutely not getting extended. Enjoy him while he's here, because he won't be next year. Neither, IMO, will Rankins, McGovern, and at least one of Kwon or Quincy - along with a bunch of other less-critical contributors on that list. 

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40 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Absolutely, but they're in a position to take one in rd 1 or not. Brown is a near-ideal bridge starter, as I was saying in another thread. He's not going to take it personally if the Jets draft a LT prospect in April, no matter what round. He knows how old he is.

I tend to think they re-sign McGovern. Centers aren't typically cap-busters and McGovern won't be either. Next time around it's doubtful he gets 2 full seasons fully guaranteed (not just for injury) again, so they can still draft a center in April to develop & simply delay the decision on McGovern for another year. Effectively, he'd be signed to a 1-year contract with team options per season beyond that. 

For all the hair-on-fire complaints about how Douglas deserved to get fired when Becton went on IR again in August, it pays to keep cool. There were so many veteran FA tackles there was no need to draft one at #4. They literally had a worst-case scenario, at one point down their 1st + 2nd string LT and 1st + 2nd string RT.

Never saw a team on/continue a winning streak when it was down to its OT5 and OT6 at one point. When the team sucks, it's an excuse for losing. When the team doesn't, it's next man up. Nice to root for the latter for a change; it's been a while.

I don't. FA centers have been signing for anywhere from 8-14M for the past few years and McGovern is playing like one of the best Cs in the league and is only 29, heading into a year with not a lot of good Cs on the market. He's going to get a higher APY than his last deal (9M) and the Jets don't have that kind of cap room to spend at C. I think most likely he signs elsewhere and the team goes with a second or third round pick competing with Feeney or a Bozeman type at the position

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6 hours ago, doitny said:

i think AVT stays at RT with Brown at LT next year.

my faith was that the rest of the NFL doesnt go crazy in drafting the OL in rd 1. but some on this board think we had to have the best OL ever. use 1st rd picks everywhere. trade into the back of rd 1 to get Linderbaum a Center. 

so why cant we do the same? find guys in the later rds, FA ? some think cause the last time we were great we have to have a 1st rd LT and a 1st rd Center to be good.

we are no where as good without Sause. but that is what skill players are supposed to do. change games. we would be worst off if we picked some LT at 4 or 10

I too think that AVT moves to RT next season.  The reason I wanted an OL early was because I felt we could not count on Becton and we were right.  I also knew Fant was still hurt and might not be ready to start the season.   He was not.  That we found Mitchell in the 4th is amazing but hardly a plan.  Nevertheless, with the play of the current starters and the injured players we have enough lineman if we resign Fant and McGovern.  Which is a big "IF".  I suspect we let both walk.  I could be convinced to resign McGovern who has played well when surrounded by competent guards.

I too think we should pick our Guards and Centers in the 3d-5th.  Just not the tackles.  Not when you know you have issues with your starters that could derail a whole season.  Thank goodness for old man Brown and the emergence of Herbig and Mitchell. 

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

AVT was top 3 ranked G in the NFL before he moved to T. 

Herbig is fine, but let's hold off on this type of statement.

Hey, I never said he could keep it up for a whole season much less a career.  Nor have I ever seen AVT get muscled and all of us saw him play LT and RT.  This is not about AVT.

I did say Herbig was outplaying AVT's efforts at RG.  And he was.  I NEVER saw AVT pull across the formation.  But we are asking Tomlinson and Herbig to pull across the center and the other guard before striking.  On some of those plays yesterday - and in earlier games - he was blowing guys up with tremendous movement skills.  It was the key to wearing them out in the 4th.  Some of those blocks had to hurt.   

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Absolutely, but they're in a position to take one in rd 1 or not. Brown is a near-ideal bridge starter, as I was saying in another thread. He's not going to take it personally if the Jets draft a LT prospect in April, no matter what round. He knows how old he is.

I tend to think they re-sign McGovern. Centers aren't typically cap-busters and McGovern won't be either. Next time around it's doubtful he gets 2 full seasons fully guaranteed (not just for injury) again, so they can still draft a center in April to develop & simply delay the decision on McGovern for another year. Effectively, he'd be signed to a 1-year contract with team options per season beyond that. 

For all the hair-on-fire complaints about how Douglas deserved to get fired when Becton went on IR again in August, it pays to keep cool. There were so many veteran FA tackles there was no need to draft one at #4. They literally had a worst-case scenario, at one point down their 1st + 2nd string LT and 1st + 2nd string RT.

Never saw a team on/continue a winning streak when it was down to its OT5 and OT6 at one point. When the team sucks, it's an excuse for losing. When the team doesn't, it's next man up. Nice to root for the latter for a change; it's been a while.

If it makes financial sense to let Fant walk then I too think we will take a tackle early and groom him to replace Brown.  Again, depending on draft position and available talent.  It looks to be a thin draft at OT  

As for McGovern - like Fant - if it makes financial sense to let him walk before the draft then we will take a center.  There are several good pros in this year's draft.  I would look for one in the 3d.

The play of the reserves and Joe Douglas's tap dancing have been sensational.   

3 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

This is completely false.

(Herbig plays RG)

That said - and I said this in another thread - the team is going to have a tough time re-signing some of its own FAs this offseason.

Here's our list of pending UFAs (excluding miscellaneous Greg Senats):

Fant, McGovern, Rankins, Flacco, Feeney, Joyner, White, Thomas, Zeurlein, Herbig, Curry, Remmers, Ogbuehi, Kwon, Harris, Sheppard, Quincy Williams, Ty Johnson, Parks

We also have Bryce Huff, James Robinson, and Jeff Smith as RFAs

That's our top 2 centers, 3 other OL who have started for us and our current depth tackle, our kicker, 3 members of the DT rotation, 2 of our top 3 LBs plus another depth LB, our starting S, both our backup QBs, two of our DEs (including our best pure pass-rusher), and a key RB.

Oh, and we also need to extend Quinnen.

We have a total of roughly 19M in projected cap room for next season - and the easiest way we can create more space is to cut the third of our top-three LBs.

For the first time in recent memory, we are going to lose good players to other teams because we have real talent that other teams will want and not enough cap space to resign everyone.  That means that guys like Herbig - who has absolutely played himself into a starting RG salary, has a cost-controlled replacement already on the roster (AVT), and will bring back a comp pick when he gets signed elsewhere - are absolutely not getting extended. Enjoy him while he's here, because he won't be next year. Neither, IMO, will Rankins, McGovern, and at least one of Kwon or Quincy - along with a bunch of other less-critical contributors on that list. 

Sigh.  I wrote:

"he will be extended and is due the salary of a starting right guard.  Guys, I know it is tough to say it but Herbig is outplaying AVT at LG."

Yes, I made a TYPO when I wrote "LG" instead of "RG".  I did correctly identify Herbig's position in the earlier sentence.

We completely disagree on resigning Herbig.  If he maintains his level of play, we will give him starters money.  As for your salary cap math, perhaps Sperm can correct me, but we have few salary cap issues.  Mosley, Fant and McGovern come off the cap next year and we will draft replacements and sign cheaper veterans if they are too costly.  I think Fant and McGovern will get paid again.  Mosley might return on a far friendlier deal.  imo

3 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

I don't. FA centers have been signing for anywhere from 8-14M for the past few years and McGovern is playing like one of the best Cs in the league and is only 29, heading into a year with not a lot of good Cs on the market. He's going to get a higher APY than his last deal (9M) and the Jets don't have that kind of cap room to spend at C. I think most likely he signs elsewhere and the team goes with a second or third round pick competing with Feeney or a Bozeman type at the position

Starting center candidates can be found in the 3d and 4th each and every year.  But you must have a backup and a pipeline.  And we do.  Both Herbig and Feeney are Center/Guards.  Feeney has started whole seasons at both positions.  We are ready to draft a center and there are several guys.  We also still have an Alabama guy on the practice squad since last season.  He knows our playbook and stands ready. 

I think we will spend the McGovern money on other priorities unless his market is limited and he comes home for a reasonable price. 

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8 hours ago, clayton163v said:

They put on a command performance yesterday. 

Brown played another excellent game.  His arrival stabilized the line and we started winning the battles on the line of scrimmage.  We simply cannot give old man Brown enough credit.  He is executing the zone scheme as if he has been playing it for years - which he has.  His play has been contagious. 

Thomlinson played a solid game and his movement skills - he is a pulling guard - were on display when we took it to them in the 4th quarter.  Again, this is an experienced zone scheme lineman.  It is not a surprise that we are beginning to gel. 

McGovern played his best ball since joining the green.  He did not get the glory - see below - but he kept picking up Thomlinson's and Herbig's opponents when we ran that crazy play which really F'ed up the Bills.  Those opponents did not get away.  Some fine play by the Center.  We were tight. 

Herbig is the glue on this line.  His pulls to the left on that crazy LaFleur play (the one with the end around where the WR runs around Zack like a telephone pole) are now the stuff of Jet legend.  Just watch the tape.  He kept smashing the poor bastard with weakside containment.  It was more than a morale crusher.  It was an actual crusher.  That play allows Herbig to take two or more steps before taking on his assignment.  He was blowing guys up.  I would say his play has come out of nowhere but it has not.  He has played well since we put him in the game.  Every team that comes together finds somebody like Herbig. 

The Mighty Og.  Look, I have to sing the virtues of our waiver wire friend.  He is a veteran and the coaches think he is the best guy left.  He has fought back since we put him in the game amidst the groans from all Jetdome (the loss of Mitchell hurt, but to see AVT join him really deflated the bag).  Guys, he has played pretty well.  I expect Fant and/or Mitchell to return after the bye.  So I can tell the Mighty Og this:

For the rest of your career, Jet fans will great you well.  Years from now when you hang them up, we will say your career may be over but you were somebody.  You were not a "never was".  That was a BIG win for the green and you were the starting right tackle. 

The funny thing about yesterday's game was that crazy play I mentioned above.  Somebody needs to post it.  We ran it so often that we used it as a vehicle for wrinkles and play action.  It left the Bills flatfooted and that let the Jets run the ball at them with authority.  One heck of a game. 

It’s simply amazing how this OL has played. Put together with glue and staples and it’s really dominating. Last week was more on Zach than the OL. When Breece was in there, they opened up gaps left and right. It’s going to be very interesting next year what the OL looks like. Obviously, some major changes will be coming. 

Hopefully, Becton returns and is a mainstay at RT with Brown at LT. I think Brown will be a huge influence on Becton next year. Then AVT returns at RG. The rest is up for conjecture. Draft? FA’s? Has Herbig earned a starting job? Will they bring back Fant? Don’t think so. Is Mitchell primed to be the starting RT? Does JD resign McGovern? 
 

I can see JD going all out and refining/upgrading the OL again next year. It’s imperative to be able to run since it takes immense pressure off of Zach. 

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7 hours ago, doitny said:

i am so glad half this board didnt get its way and we used the 4th or 10th pick on the OL. 

I was pounding the table for OL, but in hindsight,  it does appear that Joe Douglas knows more about professional football than I do..........thank you Joe Douglas.......thank you 

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4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Duane Brown's importance to the O line's development can not be ignored. He chose to play through a shoulder injury rather than get paid to have surgery and sit out the season. His emotions on the field are obvious. I can't help but feel he has changed the mindset of the O lineman from being on the defensive just trying avoid mistakes to being the aggressors and going on the offensive to make plays. I really do think that without him we'd have the same depleted by injury turnstile O line hell that we had last season. I understand that Becton is back at the facility working out. The more time he spends around Duane Brown, the better.

season 2 GIF by Twin Peaks on Showtime
 

One armed, Old Man, Duane Brown counseling Becton on where to find success!

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We could lose all 10 of our offensive lineman and something tells me Joe Douglas would somehow, some way field a top 10 unit. Having a GM who actually played the game, and played o-line no less, goes a long way when evaluating youngins sitting on someone else's practice squad or FA, or even lower rounds of the draft. Under JD, jets are probably in the best position to field an Oline. 

Back to the game: Brown deserves so much credit. So many running plays he's 20 yards downfield mauling DBs. Thing of beauty.

On some ESPN show this morning, one of the talking heads was in the Jets' locker room after the game and said Herbig could barely walk. He wasn't injured, just beyond exhausted. He struggled to put one leg in front of the other just walking to the showers. He said Herbig left it ALL out on the field.

Good stuff!

Perhaps a dream team next season would put a 100% healthy Mechi Becton at LT next to a 100% healthy AVT, with Herbig and Max Mitchell on the right side. Center? Maybe there's where JD get a youngin in here. Does Mangold have any kids in college yet?

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21 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Duane Brown says 'Hi!'

yeah but we didnt waste a 1st rd pick on him. i should have rephrased my words. 

if Becton lived up to his draft status there was no way we could afford both he and AVT. we would need that 20 mil for skill players like Zach, GW, Hall, Sause. 

and this year proves you can find good guys like Brown, Hebrig, Laken, McGovern. 

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4 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

I don't. FA centers have been signing for anywhere from 8-14M for the past few years and McGovern is playing like one of the best Cs in the league and is only 29, heading into a year with not a lot of good Cs on the market. He's going to get a higher APY than his last deal (9M) and the Jets don't have that kind of cap room to spend at C. I think most likely he signs elsewhere and the team goes with a second or third round pick competing with Feeney or a Bozeman type at the position

I think it’s 50-50.

Even if his next contract is in the $10-12MM/yr range, it won’t hit that in y1 of an extension. 

I was actually hoping they’d have been able to pull of a trade for Bozeman before the deadline. It’s a bit maddening that he cost less than Feeney (not much, but still). 

I did see your post about the players they’re losing, but while it’s not wrong I guess I’m not looking at it the same way. Most are players they don’t need, and in exchange they’ll recoup comp picks for them. 

As far as the little amount of cap room they have, while it’s true as things stand today, it’s unlikely to be the case. I don’t see them retaining literally everyone under contract and then start shopping. There are plenty who may find themselves as less than locks to be brought back.

  1. Lawson — I don’t think he’s brought back at another $15MM. He’s not terrible, but he’s not worth that plus the Jets aren’t in the same desperate situation at edge rusher that they were when they first signed him. So right there the $19MM becomes $34MM.
  2. JFM — I think he probably sticks, as he’s more versatile than Lawson, but I don’t see both returning. Possible that both go, but more likely he’ll keep one and think they choose JFM over Lawson. But JFM’s another $12MM possibility.
  3. Davis — my guess is they keep him because he’s really not that pricy at $10MM and with Wilson & Moore (& Mims for that matter) so little for now, and Moore’s mouth making him less than a certainty to return & stick all season, I think they let Davis finish out his contract. But it’s not a guarantee, even if I think it’s likely. If he gets hurt again & misses most of the rest of the season they may seek a more reliable veteran. (Again I think he’ll be brought back).
  4. Tomlinson — is more or less coming off his only decent game of the season. It’d be a blow to Douglas’s ego to cut bait after just 1 season, but the reality is LT3 only had 1 fully guaranteed season and isn’t playing like a $13MM guard. If the rest of his season looks like this past Sunday I think he’ll be brought back. If they want to re-sign Herbig, Tomlinson could find himself a FA again.
  5. Mosley — I think less of him than most, but in no way is he a $17MM LB (to the degree he ever was, even when he was first signed here, at some 50% higher than Baltimore’s top offer iirc). More likely they agree on a pay cut, since I can’t see anyone else matching $17MM/yr anyway, but I’m not seeing him as being at all irreplaceable.

Any of the above that do stick can also have some of it moved to ‘24/beyond. But there’s plenty of room to re-sign McGovern if they want. 

I tend to think a key reason he’s not been re-inked is it’d be a more stark comparison with Fant if they did, as he’s made it known he’s displeased at not being offered an extension. 

Their FAs you mention:

  1. Zuerlein — I’d prefer to bring him back. Kickers aren’t crazy money, and the savings is insignificant for a player who can have such an effect on score outcomes (and strategy, if the HC is that unsure of his kicker’s reliability or range). How much could he possibly be, $3-4MM? 
  2. Joyner — likewise, he’s not going to be a lot. He’s outplaying his $2.6MM but the reality is there won’t be a long line of teams looking to open up their wallets much more for a merely pretty-good safety who turns 33 next year. He probably won’t be much different in cost. Figure about another $3MM again; likely won’t double his current rate worst-case.
  3. Herbig — he’ll cost a lot more than he did this year, but if they want him back the swap would be Tomlinson because of how neatly the $ swap would be (if not an outright savings). I’m not buying some fan sentiment that they’d keep Tomlinson + Herbig at guard and move AVT to tackle full time. Possible, but I’ll believe it when I see it. 
  4. Alexander — too early to tell how much he’d be next year. If the Jets’ D keeps playing this way, the reality is every player on it who’s reaching FA probably gets overrated (and therefore overpaid) a bit. Moreover the reason I think they won’t go bananas trying to retain him because…
  5. Quincy Williams — what a difference a year makes. He’s still not a probowl level yet, and still has some whiffs, but he’s noticeably better. Plus retaining him helps keep his brother happier to stick around himself, and if they are considering a future without Mosley like I’m hoping, and possibly losing Kwon, they’ll have extra cash and won’t want to replace all 3 of them at once.
  6. Rankins — I don’t expect him to be back. Not because he hasn’t played well this year, but because he has. They’re not going to match his top offer and also make their own offer to Quinnen, the only irreplaceable one of the bunch whose contract is expiring.
  7. Huff — is a RFA so there’s no danger of losing him. Even a 1st round tender isn’t very much, if they even go that high.
  8. Flacco/White — meh, who cares. 
  9. Robinson — meh, he’s fine but also replaceable. Too early to know how badly needed he’d be, and anyway there are other RBs out there.
  10. Jeff Smith, Remmers, Feeney, Curry, others… bring them back or don’t. They’re cheap, otherwise I wouldn’t get into any bidding wars over them.
  11. Fant = gone.
  12. D.Brown = not a FA, but if they do go with a tackle in round 1 they may decide to let him go or renegotiate down, seeing that they’d have that rookie + Becton + Mitchell + AVT can slide over in a pinch himself, and $9MM is steep lot for a backup. (I don’t think they’ll go OT in round 1; just saying it’s possible depending who’s there when the Jets are on the clock).

Yeah it’s a lot of names, but the only ones approaching the $10MM range that they’ll really want/need to bring back are QW2 and Herbig, and they could - and imo should - be clearing some space from 2+ guys who are under contract anyway. 

They’re not in cap trouble unless they do something really stupid like pay Mosley $17MM again and decide to keep both JFM and Lawson after drafting a pair of promising DEs and Huff staying healthy after bulking up. 

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17 hours ago, doitny said:

i am so glad half this board didnt get its way and we used the 4th or 10th pick on the OL. then we would have no Sause and or no GW.

and there is not one #1st rd pick on this line. i told you guys you could find good enough guys. are they great, no but there good enough. were not 6-3 if they were horrible. 

so next year we dont have to use that #1 pick on the line. as i see it were already set with LT Brown LG Laken, RG Herbig, RT AVT.  all we need is a center that we could get in rd 2. and i would resign McGovern. dont start a rookie center from day 1.

Did you know how good Herbig was going to be or if he was even on this team ???, or if Laken was going to get run over for the first few games this year until we found a line that worked. None of us OL people as you put it were saying we had to take OL in the first, we just thought it was a prudent choice. You act as if you knew what 3 players we were going to take lol...

Now, I'll give you that the first 4 picks are going to be good, but I was also saying that while I did want an OL sprinkled in there, I am happy with what JD did with his first 4 picks. One can only hope that Breece comes back full strength next year, cause he was fun to watch.

What I will say though is that OL whether you believe it or not is going to have to be in consideration for next year in rounds 2 thru 5 because we need to find the LT and Center of the future on this team. I think if we get one of those 2 next year, then lower picks, or FA's can be used to shore up any position we couldn't find. While Herbig is a surprise, and if he continues on this path, I see him as the RG for a while, and switch AVT to RT. I don't know how much more of Moore we'll have at his age, and I really want to upgrade to a much more physical Center. There is no crystal ball on Becton, so who the hell knows what we'll get out of him.

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18 hours ago, clayton163v said:

They put on a command performance yesterday. 

Brown played another excellent game.  His arrival stabilized the line and we started winning the battles on the line of scrimmage.  We simply cannot give old man Brown enough credit.  He is executing the zone scheme as if he has been playing it for years - which he has.  His play has been contagious. 

Thomlinson played a solid game and his movement skills - he is a pulling guard - were on display when we took it to them in the 4th quarter.  Again, this is an experienced zone scheme lineman.  It is not a surprise that we are beginning to gel. 

McGovern played his best ball since joining the green.  He did not get the glory - see below - but he kept picking up Thomlinson's and Herbig's opponents when we ran that crazy play which really F'ed up the Bills.  Those opponents did not get away.  Some fine play by the Center.  We were tight. 

Herbig is the glue on this line.  His pulls to the left on that crazy LaFleur play (the one with the end around where the WR runs around Zack like a telephone pole) are now the stuff of Jet legend.  Just watch the tape.  He kept smashing the poor bastard with weakside containment.  It was more than a morale crusher.  It was an actual crusher.  That play allows Herbig to take two or more steps before taking on his assignment.  He was blowing guys up.  I would say his play has come out of nowhere but it has not.  He has played well since we put him in the game.  Every team that comes together finds somebody like Herbig. 

The Mighty Og.  Look, I have to sing the virtues of our waiver wire friend.  He is a veteran and the coaches think he is the best guy left.  He has fought back since we put him in the game amidst the groans from all Jetdome (the loss of Mitchell hurt, but to see AVT join him really deflated the bag).  Guys, he has played pretty well.  I expect Fant and/or Mitchell to return after the bye.  So I can tell the Mighty Og this:

For the rest of your career, Jet fans will great you well.  Years from now when you hang them up, we will say your career may be over but you were somebody.  You were not a "never was".  That was a BIG win for the green and you were the starting right tackle. 

The funny thing about yesterday's game was that crazy play I mentioned above.  Somebody needs to post it.  We ran it so often that we used it as a vehicle for wrinkles and play action.  It left the Bills flatfooted and that let the Jets run the ball at them with authority.  One heck of a game. 

you gotta give them a lot of credit.  wilson had more confidence staying in the pocket and in the 4th they did some good run blocking.  they'll get even better as play more together barring injury.

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36 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Did you know how good Herbig was going to be or if he was even on this team ???, or if Laken was going to get run over for the first few games this year until we found a line that worked. None of us OL people as you put it were saying we had to take OL in the first, we just thought it was a prudent choice. You act as if you knew what 3 players we were going to take lol...

Now, I'll give you that the first 4 picks are going to be good, but I was also saying that while I did want an OL sprinkled in there, I am happy with what JD did with his first 4 picks. One can only hope that Breece comes back full strength next year, cause he was fun to watch.

What I will say though is that OL whether you believe it or not is going to have to be in consideration for next year in rounds 2 thru 5 because we need to find the LT and Center of the future on this team. I think if we get one of those 2 next year, then lower picks, or FA's can be used to shore up any position we couldn't find. While Herbig is a surprise, and if he continues on this path, I see him as the RG for a while, and switch AVT to RT. I don't know how much more of Moore we'll have at his age, and I really want to upgrade to a much more physical Center. There is no crystal ball on Becton, so who the hell knows what we'll get out of him.

what i did know was that over 90% of the SB teams the last 20 years had 1 or zero 1st rd OL that they drafted. we were going to have 3 if we did it this year. if they all lived up to their draft status we werent paying 60 mil for 3 OL. 2 would have to go. so why use such a high pick on someone off your team in 5 years? 1st rd picks should get a 2nd contract if you want to have sustained success.

alot of people here wanted Ekwonu or the guy the Giants drafted at 4, A LOT OF PEOPLE. there were even some who wanted Lindenbaum at 10 or trading that pick back to the teens and take Lindenbaum. some people think we could never be good unless we have a Brick and Mangold clones cause that was the last time we were good. 

did JD get lucky this year finding OL off the scrap heap like Brown, Herbig or that guy who played RT on Sunday? or is it this team has alot of really good skill players that make defenses blitz us less? legit question.

its all about money. now that were good and have some really good skill players that we have to keep, a larger part of our cap has to go to them. i agree that we should draft a LT in the 2-5 rounds or get the Center this year and LT next year since Brown should be back next year.

but at 4 and 10 you dont use those picks on OL. there will always be a good skill player to get there. and you should never draft OL in rd 1 3 years in a row.

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10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think it’s 50-50.

Even if his next contract is in the $10-12MM/yr range, it won’t hit that in y1 of an extension. 

I was actually hoping they’d have been able to pull of a trade for Bozeman before the deadline. It’s a bit maddening that he cost less than Feeney (not much, but still). 

I did see your post about the players they’re losing, but while it’s not wrong I guess I’m not looking at it the same way. Most are players they don’t need, and in exchange they’ll recoup comp picks for them. 

As far as the little amount of cap room they have, while it’s true as things stand today, it’s unlikely to be the case. I don’t see them retaining literally everyone under contract and then start shopping. There are plenty who may find themselves as less than locks to be brought back.

  1. Lawson — I don’t think he’s brought back at another $15MM. He’s not terrible, but he’s not worth that plus the Jets aren’t in the same desperate situation at edge rusher that they were when they first signed him. So right there the $19MM becomes $34MM.
  2. JFM — I think he probably sticks, as he’s more versatile than Lawson, but I don’t see both returning. Possible that both go, but more likely he’ll keep one and think they choose JFM over Lawson. But JFM’s another $12MM possibility.
  3. Davis — my guess is they keep him because he’s really not that pricy at $10MM and with Wilson & Moore (& Mims for that matter) so little for now, and Moore’s mouth making him less than a certainty to return & stick all season, I think they let Davis finish out his contract. But it’s not a guarantee, even if I think it’s likely. If he gets hurt again & misses most of the rest of the season they may seek a more reliable veteran. (Again I think he’ll be brought back).
  4. Tomlinson — is more or less coming off his only decent game of the season. It’d be a blow to Douglas’s ego to cut bait after just 1 season, but the reality is LT3 only had 1 fully guaranteed season and isn’t playing like a $13MM guard. If the rest of his season looks like this past Sunday I think he’ll be brought back. If they want to re-sign Herbig, Tomlinson could find himself a FA again.
  5. Mosley — I think less of him than most, but in no way is he a $17MM LB (to the degree he ever was, even when he was first signed here, at some 50% higher than Baltimore’s top offer iirc). More likely they agree on a pay cut, since I can’t see anyone else matching $17MM/yr anyway, but I’m not seeing him as being at all irreplaceable.

Any of the above that do stick can also have some of it moved to ‘24/beyond. But there’s plenty of room to re-sign McGovern if they want. 

I tend to think a key reason he’s not been re-inked is it’d be a more stark comparison with Fant if they did, as he’s made it known he’s displeased at not being offered an extension. 

Their FAs you mention:

  1. Zuerlein — I’d prefer to bring him back. Kickers aren’t crazy money, and the savings is insignificant for a player who can have such an effect on score outcomes (and strategy, if the HC is that unsure of his kicker’s reliability or range). How much could he possibly be, $3-4MM? 
  2. Joyner — likewise, he’s not going to be a lot. He’s outplaying his $2.6MM but the reality is there won’t be a long line of teams looking to open up their wallets much more for a merely pretty-good safety who turns 33 next year. He probably won’t be much different in cost. Figure about another $3MM again; likely won’t double his current rate worst-case.
  3. Herbig — he’ll cost a lot more than he did this year, but if they want him back the swap would be Tomlinson because of how neatly the $ swap would be (if not an outright savings). I’m not buying some fan sentiment that they’d keep Tomlinson + Herbig at guard and move AVT to tackle full time. Possible, but I’ll believe it when I see it. 
  4. Alexander — too early to tell how much he’d be next year. If the Jets’ D keeps playing this way, the reality is every player on it who’s reaching FA probably gets overrated (and therefore overpaid) a bit. Moreover the reason I think they won’t go bananas trying to retain him because…
  5. Quincy Williams — what a difference a year makes. He’s still not a probowl level yet, and still has some whiffs, but he’s noticeably better. Plus retaining him helps keep his brother happier to stick around himself, and if they are considering a future without Mosley like I’m hoping, and possibly losing Kwon, they’ll have extra cash and won’t want to replace all 3 of them at once.
  6. Rankins — I don’t expect him to be back. Not because he hasn’t played well this year, but because he has. They’re not going to match his top offer and also make their own offer to Quinnen, the only irreplaceable one of the bunch whose contract is expiring.
  7. Huff — is a RFA so there’s no danger of losing him. Even a 1st round tender isn’t very much, if they even go that high.
  8. Flacco/White — meh, who cares. 
  9. Robinson — meh, he’s fine but also replaceable. Too early to know how badly needed he’d be, and anyway there are other RBs out there.
  10. Jeff Smith, Remmers, Feeney, Curry, others… bring them back or don’t. They’re cheap, otherwise I wouldn’t get into any bidding wars over them.
  11. Fant = gone.
  12. D.Brown = not a FA, but if they do go with a tackle in round 1 they may decide to let him go or renegotiate down, seeing that they’d have that rookie + Becton + Mitchell + AVT can slide over in a pinch himself, and $9MM is steep lot for a backup. (I don’t think they’ll go OT in round 1; just saying it’s possible depending who’s there when the Jets are on the clock).

Yeah it’s a lot of names, but the only ones approaching the $10MM range that they’ll really want/need to bring back are QW2 and Herbig, and they could - and imo should - be clearing some space from 2+ guys who are under contract anyway. 

They’re not in cap trouble unless they do something really stupid like pay Mosley $17MM again and decide to keep both JFM and Lawson after drafting a pair of promising DEs and Huff staying healthy after bulking up. 

Great write up.  I think you are spot on with a lot of this.  I do think they let Joyner walk and we try to find a dynamic safety high in the draft (round 2-3) to pair with Whitehead next year.  I think JD really values freak athleticism all across the field which makes the Sauce, Garrett Wilson, and Breece Hall picks make a lot of sense.  I think JD sees how our secondary is playing and knows how much of a leap the defense can make with elite safety play behind Sauce and Reed

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