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I'm confused about Zach


PorP

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Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

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Just now, PorP said:

Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

People that watch players on tv and ascribe emotions to those players , are often wrong.

It is like the phrase "game face".  Sometimes it is ridiculous.

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10 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

People that watch players on tv and ascribe emotions to those players , are often wrong.

It is like the phrase "game face".  Sometimes it is ridiculous.

I associated because I lived it man.  I played LB and got smoke by a RB, never tried to head on tackle that guy again lol.  I mean I am still wrong but....

All the guys in the locker room had fears of different nouns as well.  There aren't that many Micheal Clemons in the world. 

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25 minutes ago, PorP said:

Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

Not sure if the offense changed. I think the 3 int game was a wake up call to Zach. If you notice, prior to the bills game, Zach left the pocket at an absurd rate when he should have stayed in the pocket. Vs the bills, he stayed in the pocket and while, to me, he looked uncomfortable, he still was a lot more effective. Staying in the pocket also allowed him to find running lanes that weren’t available if he left the pocket immediately. He needs to get comfortable standing in there. If Zach can get comfortable in the pocket, that’ll help this team and his own game so much. 

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6 minutes ago, extmenace said:

Not sure if the offense changed. I think the 3 int game was a wake up call to Zach. If you notice, prior to the bills game, Zach left the pocket at an absurd rate when he should have stayed in the pocket. Vs the bills, he stayed in the pocket and while, to me, he looked uncomfortable, he still was a lot more effective. Staying in the pocket also allowed him to find running lanes that weren’t available if he left the pocket immediately. He needs to get comfortable standing in there. If Zach can get comfortable in the pocket, that’ll help this team and his own game so much. 

It did change,  ball was out way faster,  consistently.  And the ball was outt fast enough and the oline improved enough that pocket collapse (perceived or real)  wasn't an issue.  And it needed to be that way and the same versus the rats. 

But I also agree with you. 

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2 minutes ago, PorP said:

It did change,  ball was out way faster,  consistently.  And the ball was outt fast enough and the oline improved enough that pocket collapse (perceived or real)  wasn't an issue.  And it needed to be that way and the same versus the rats. 

But I also agree with you. 

Isn’t this offense all about making quick passes? If they aren’t coming out quick, wouldn’t that be on the qb? Can’t make a quick read when you’re thinking about leaving the pocket 1 second into the play.

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4 minutes ago, extmenace said:

Isn’t this offense all about making quick passes? If they aren’t coming out quick, wouldn’t that be on the qb? Can’t make a quick read when you’re thinking about leaving the pocket 1 second into the play.

I keep hearing that.  And no,  not necessarily on qb, each play has a WR progression,  Zach decides side of field based on defense,  but then there is a 1, 2, 3 progression after that that is predefined.

Further,  I'll reference offense play 1 of the bills game. Go route.  A play that had been rehearsed repeatedly in practice. 

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I think Zach was better than people are giving him credit for...

Well, I think what he did yesterday was harder than most think.  His talent level was apparent.  

Throws like below are a good example (there were multiple similar) and his arm strength and release are apparently at that special level.  If he can continue with the accuracy he showed yesterday, with the ability to get rid of the ball quickly we might really have something.  

Even the first one being a bit behind him - these are the throws and catches that make big time players.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think Zach was better than people are giving him credit for...

Well, I think what he did yesterday was harder than most think.  His talent level was apparent.  

Throws like below are a good example (there were multiple similar) and his arm strength and release are apparently at that special level.  If he can continue with the accuracy he showed yesterday, with the ability to get rid of the ball quickly we might really have something.  

Even the first one being a bit behind him - these are the throws and catches that make big time players.

 

 

I agree man.  His arm angles yesterday were special. 

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

This one too.  If he does this more instead of the chicken without a head in the backfield stuff - it makes a huge difference.  If his 1st or 2nd read isn't there - take off.  

He's pretty fast too - could drive defenses crazy...

 

I'm still not over the moon with him, but my goodness his potential makes me giddy. 

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1 minute ago, Grandy said:

I'm still not over the moon with him, but my goodness his potential makes me giddy. 

Yeah, I get it. 

He's going to have to do this, or close to it consistently.  I want to see him get rid of the ball quickly, step into his throws (seems to be really accurate when he does) and run for yards a lot more often.  Just take and run as soon as there's a window.  By the way - taking off and running - will also help his completion % - not forced incomplete and far less throw aways.

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1 hour ago, PorP said:

Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

Like the old saying goes, the anticipation of death is worse than death itself. I don’t think Zach is afraid of contact, I think he’s paranoid in the pocket about where potential contact might be coming from and he loses his sh*t. 

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The emphasis was on the quick game this week and it showed.  Even Garrett Wilson said it, less about shaking his man and more about being in the spot he should be on time.  If they can keep this up, completing passes at a high % clip will continue to make sure they can't stack the box and our run game can keep grinding away.

Maybe Zach turned a corner, maybe it was just a great gameplan and we go back to 5-7 step drops and running around aimlessly.  We'll see.

No doubt we'll have another game to actually panic about if we get down and Zach throws a pick or two in a key spot.  Don't worry.

But hopefully we see a lot more games like this one.

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I don't think he is fearful of getting hit. That was a odd thought by fans. Him running around is more about trying to be a Mahomes type of QB.

He threw himself head first in his first game back as well.

For all his super powers, Zach is best as a pocket passer who has the ability to escape when necessary.

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18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Like the old saying goes, the anticipation of death is worse than death itself. I don’t think Zach is afraid of contact, I think he’s paranoid in the pocket about where potential contact might be coming from and he loses his sh*t. 

I'll buy that for a dollar man.  You're probably spot on.  

I'm a little emotional and it's overreaction Monday so with a grain of salt.....

I can see that game being pivotal. Zach seeing what happens whet he listens. The team,  especially Garrett talking about ZW, sauce talking about the CS... we might be special right now. Not necessarily SB special this year but the roots are good. 

 

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1 hour ago, PorP said:

Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

He was always a running quarterback in college.  That was a big part of his game. Go back and look at his TD run in the Miami game this year. Diving head-first into helmet-to-helmet contact.

I don't think he's been fearful of contact, I think he's been thinking he can always escape and make a big play. Players are too fast in the NFL for him to be running around like backyard ball with beer belly guys half-heartedly chasing him.

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Wilson doesn’t like contact because he listens to his coaches and he freaks them out.  

He loved lowering his shoulder into LBs instead of sliding in college. 


Also I’ve said it a million times, but once he gets on the same page and trusts a WR he will feed them.  GW and him seem to be on the same page now. 

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4 hours ago, PorP said:

Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

Please don't use MiLF when discussing Zach :)

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Zach has been afforded good OL's when he played at BYU... If you look at tape he's got years to throw the ball. Once he learns that it's not like college he'll get used to how to use the pocket correctly and trust his OL. We don't want to strip him of his ability to escape the pocket, but we need him to learn to trust it and make throws from it with his feet planted correctly in order to maximize accuracy on his pass attempts.

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14 hours ago, PorP said:

It did change,  ball was out way faster,  consistently.  And the ball was outt fast enough and the oline improved enough that pocket collapse (perceived or real)  wasn't an issue.  And it needed to be that way and the same versus the rats. 

But I also agree with you. 

That is what they have been coaching probably.  This offense is designed on getting the ball out quick and thus why many on here are so anti Zach.  He is a square peg and seemed to have no desire to play in the system.

This week he showed that he can and he looked better.  

Mike White played in the system. Had a career game.

Josh Johnson the same.

Zach had more talent than both combined but hasn't played in the system.  This week he did a little more.

The biggest and most encouraging play were with his legs, and I think he probably got Hammered after not running on that 4th and 5 against the pats.  

Zach has the tools, he has the talent, and from all accounts he is football smart.  It just has to transition and thus far hasn't.   This last game showed he could play in the system.

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15 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I think Zach was better than people are giving him credit for...

Well, I think what he did yesterday was harder than most think.  His talent level was apparent.  

Throws like below are a good example (there were multiple similar) and his arm strength and release are apparently at that special level.  If he can continue with the accuracy he showed yesterday, with the ability to get rid of the ball quickly we might really have something.  

Even the first one being a bit behind him - these are the throws and catches that make big time players.

 

 

On the last pass, he’s destroyed by a lineman.  Why isn’t roughing the passer ever seem to be called our way?  Or especially the way it’s so easily called when it’s a Brady, Rogers or top QB 

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16 hours ago, PorP said:

Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

OMG can we start using MiLF as an acronym for Mike LafLeur?

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I haven't done a play by play breakdown of the NE game vs. the Buf game (and I won't...I have better things to do)...but it seemed like they called more RPOs with simple reads against Buffalo where he either handed the ball off or had a quick pass available as the second option.

I felt like there was a lot less drop back, go through your progressions, type calls.

 

But maybe it was just me?

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16 hours ago, PorP said:

Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

And everyone that disagrees with him running the ball because he is "fragile" should relax.  Injuries happen to anyone and to be honest it's part of the game.  So you have two options.   Baby the kid and don't let him run the ball or let him be the athlete that he is.  He isn't a small athlete by any means.  

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17 hours ago, PorP said:

Not really about his play yesterday,  MLF changed the plan/ calling and it fit Zach well. They obviously worked on his escape to be lateral or forward too. 

I'm confused in that everything I saw before was telling me he was fearful and avoiding contact.  

Then one of his runs,  he dropped his shoulder and faces contract like a champ.  That is not a fearful move. 

I guess humans will remain a mystery to me. 

 

Iirc the play where he dropped his shoulder was near the sideline towards the end of the game when we were trying to milk the clock before scoring. Going oob would have been a killer and it showed good awareness and toughness by Zach to do that. He's a competitor and wasn't thinking about anything but winning the game there.

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