Bye Week Discussion: Better QB Chad Penning or Kenny O'Brien

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Kenny o had 10 TDs and 11 INTs in 1991

OK now negate the other points I made because that ain't enough.  

[EM31]

3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

He didn't  have to

Sarcasm (from me) went over like a lead balloon here

[Randy Rasmussen]

O’Brien had the nose picker as a head coach while Chaddy Cakes had Herm.


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[southparkcpa]

9 hours ago, Biggs said:

Lets combine them and make a statue with a noodle arm. 

 

[southparkcpa]

4 hours ago, Maxman said:

OMG I just posted I had a poster and then I saw this. LEGIT had this poster in my dorm room lol.

So you lost your virginity after college?

[SuicidalSince98]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

  Yeah, no. 

 

Indeed they don't.

O'Brien had:

• 2 Pro Bowl seasons (1985, 1991) along with a top-5 finish in OPOY vote (1986)
• 4 seasons with 3,300+ yards (1985, 1986, 1989, 1991)
• 4 seasons with at least 2 Game-Winning Drives (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991)
• 2 seasons with at least one 4-TD game (1985 -1; 1986 - 2)
• 2 seasons with at least two 350+ yard games (1985, 1986)
• 3 seasons as NFL leader in lowest INT % (1985, 1987, 1988)

- 10 TDs 11 Int in 1991 “pro bowl” season, Kelly had 33 TDs that same year 

- in what universe is 3300 yards impressive when you’re completing less than 60% and throwing less than 20 TDs per and more INTs than TDs

- your stats about at least 2 x are irrelevant since two games don’t make a season 

- in those lowest int seasons he threw for like 2500 yards 

he had one good year 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

- 10 TDs 11 Int in 1991 “pro bowl” season, Kelly had 33 TDs that same year 

- in what universe is 3300 yards impressive when you’re completing less than 60% and throwing less than 20 TDs per and more INTs than TDs

- your stats about at least 2 x are irrelevant since two games don’t make a season 

- in those lowest int seasons he threw for like 2500 yards 

he had one good year 

 

A universe where 3300-yard seasons didn't exactly grow on trees?

How many 3,000+ yard seasons did Pennington have?  I know you say he sucks too but if we're talking the 2 QBs here KOB was better, and he certainly didn't just have "one good year".  

[SuicidalSince98]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

A universe where 3300-yard seasons didn't exactly grow on trees?

How many 3,000+ yard seasons did Pennington have?  I know you say he sucks too but if we're talking the 2 QBs here KOB was better, and he certainly didn't just have "one good year".  

I would take Kenny over penny but he had one good YEAR and a few good moments. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

I would take Kenny over penny but he had one good YEAR and a few good moments. 

This is acceptable.

[peebag]

Do I shoot myself in the foot or the hand?

[hotrodcharlie]

I think you'd find this to be a generational thing. The old(er) guys are gonna pick O'Brien and the young guys Pennington. But I could be wrong

[Biggs]

6 hours ago, hotrodcharlie said:

I think you'd find this to be a generational thing. The old(er) guys are gonna pick O'Brien and the young guys Pennington. But I could be wrong

Older guy here.  In my opinion the healthy combination of Toon, Walker, Shuler and McNeal was the best collection of skill players around any Jets QB including the championship team.  
 

Kenny obviously had a great arm.  He had the movement of a tackling sled.  He’s feel for the game was extremely poor.   Toons outrageous catch radius and lack of fear going after hospital balls bailed out Kenny numerous times.   He destroyed Toon.  I will always hate Kenny for that.  Toon was one of the most spectacular players this team every had. Kenny destroyed him.

[TuscanyTile2]

16 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Pennington at the end was a joke QB 

Yes he was.  Not even just at the end.  Pretty much after his first season as a starter it became evident how limited he was.  The Chad Pennington couldn't have ended quickly enough for me.  What a waste of time he was.  Absolute fool's gold.

[hotrodcharlie]

50 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Older guy here.  In my opinion the healthy combination of Toon, Walker, Shuler and McNeal was the best collection of skill players around any Jets QB including the championship team.  
 

Kenny obviously had a great arm.  He had the movement of a tackling sled.  He’s feel for the game was extremely poor.   Toons outrageous catch radius and lack of fear going after hospital balls bailed out Kenny numerous times.   He destroyed Toon.  I will always hate Kenny for that.  Toon was one of the most spectacular players this team every had. Kenny destroyed him.

I loved Toon, he was just awesome 

[TuscanyTile2]

Chad Pennington was the absolute worst.  He could win games and trick you into thinking he might be the answer but there was no chance whatsoever that he really was.  The perfect Chad game was in his "comeback" season where he won 11 for the Dolphins and then got absolutely destroyed by the Ravens in that playoff game.  That was Chad in a nutshell. 

I remember that playoff game against the Steelers (the Doug Brien game) where I think he had one scoring drive and it was a FG.  Scoring drives for Chad were always painful.  13 plays for 65 yards type ordeals.  And he was the MOST predictable QB ever.  We need a Hail Mary at the end of the game?  Chad would throw a 2 yard dump-off.

I look at Chad as being symbolic of the Jets' futility.  And many Jet fans love the guy to this day.   I remember being thrilled when we were finally rid of him.  One of my least favorite Jets ever.

[hotrodcharlie]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Chad Pennington was the absolute worst.  He could win games and trick you into thinking he might be the answer but there was no chance whatsoever that he really was.  The perfect Chad game was in his "comeback" season where he won 11 for the Dolphins and then got absolutely destroyed by the Ravens in that playoff game.  That was Chad in a nutshell. 

I remember that playoff game against the Steelers (the Doug Brien game) where I think he had one scoring drive and it was a FG.  Scoring drives for Chad were always painful.  13 plays for 65 yards type ordeals.  And he was the MOST predictable QB ever.  We need a Hail Mary at the end of the game?  Chad would throw a 2 yard dump-off.

I look at Chad as being symbolic of the Jets' futility.  And many Jet fans love the guy to this day.   I remember being thrilled when we were finally rid of him.  One of my least favorite Jets ever.

Pennington was injured in that playoff game. Most QBs these days don’t even take the field    in the condition he was in

Besides, if Herm Edwards doesn’t manage the clock like dummy or Doug Brien makes a field goal, Pennington wins that game 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Pennington was injured in that playoff game. Most QBs these days don’t even take the field    in the condition he was in

Besides, if Herm Edwards doesn’t manage the clock like dummy or Doug Brien makes a field goal, Pennington wins that game 

Injured or healthy, Chad was only interested in throwing 2 yard passes.

[hotrodcharlie]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Injured or healthy, Chad was only interested in throwing 2 yard passes.

Yeah well now we have a QB with a strong arm and he only throws 2 yard passes as well. And competes far less than Pennington

[hotrodcharlie]

Pennington was actually very accurate in the deep throws, btw.
 

Yeah he didn’t have a strong arm but what good is a strong arm if the pass is not completed. 
 

An underrated part of Pennington’s game was his ability to complete the deeper throws. (And I voted for Kenny O here)

[Biggs]

16 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Injured or healthy, Chad was only interested in throwing 2 yard passes.

Yet in adjusted yards per pass Chad 8.2 is on another planet from golden arm Ken's 6.9.   Ken was the master of the deep pass and the sack for negative yards play.  

[Biggs]

Ken had one of the greatest sack percentages and negative yardage stats.  8.9% of his passing attempts led to sacks for -2,654 yards.   

[Biggs]

14 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

A universe where 3300-yard seasons didn't exactly grow on trees?

How many 3,000+ yard seasons did Pennington have?  I know you say he sucks too but if we're talking the 2 QBs here KOB was better, and he certainly didn't just have "one good year".  

Kenny was less productive moving the team down the field on a per pass attempt basis than Pennington.  Pennington drove the team further down the field on every pass attempt over his career than Ken.  That's something you ignore.  Ken had terrible feel in the pocket and had an amazing amount of negative plays.  

[TuscanyTile2]

55 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Yeah well now we have a QB with a strong arm and he only throws 2 yard passes as well. And competes far less than Pennington

There's still a big difference though.  Zach at least has the ability to throw the ball down the field, so defenses have to be wary.  With Chad, defenses could sell out.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

There's still a big difference though.  Zach at least has the ability to throw the ball down the field, so defenses have to be wary.  With Chad, defenses could sell out.

Did we have more YPA in our rushing game with Ken vs. Chad?  I would bet it was statistically insignificant.  Ken was such a statue vs Chad teams were much more likely to sell out and go for the sack with Ken than Chad.  Chad was a master at getting the ball out to a player when D's lost containment.  It was one of the best parts of his game. 

[rangerous]

gotta go with chaddy.  much as i think obrien had a much superior arm and accuracy, chaddy knew how to play the game.  plus, chaddy took two different teams to the playoffs. it's unfortunate that he was such a china doll.

[TuscanyTile2]

9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Did we have more YPA in our rushing game with Ken vs. Chad?  I would bet it was statistically insignificant.  Ken was such a statue vs Chad teams were much more likely to sell out and go for the sack with Ken than Chad.  Chad was a master at getting the ball out to a player when D's lost containment.  It was one of the best parts of his game. 

Chad was brilliant at the things he was good at.  But he had to be because he was an incredibly limited QB.

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Chad was brilliant at the things he was good at.  But he had to be because he was an incredibly limited QB.

No question but before he tore his shoulder he had enough arm to be extremely effective.  

Joe Montana had a rag arm.  He never hurt his arm.  His back was a problem late.

Chad was done in by his injury not his limitations.  The guile he showed in 2006 when he couldn't make nearly enough throws outside the hash marks down the field was amazing.  

I really don't get the hate.  He was brilliant and he got hurt.  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

No question but before he tore his shoulder he had enough arm to be extremely effective.  

Joe Montana had a rag arm.  He never hurt his arm.  His back was a problem late.

Chad was done in by his injury not his limitations.  The guile he showed in 2006 when he couldn't make nearly enough throws outside the hash marks down the field was amazing.  

I really don't get the hate.  He was brilliant and he got hurt.  

I don't think he was ever brilliant (well, except at 2 yard passes).   

[Sonny Werblin]

I didn't vote because they are tough to compare since one guys strength always seems to be the other guy's weakness, except for accuracy. Chad was one of the most accurate passers ever based on completion percentage but O'Brien was accurate as well. People also forget that O'Brien played at a time with rules that made it more difficult to pass.  I'd be happy with either as my QB. Plus, they were both good guys and very easy to root for.

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't think he was ever brilliant (well, except at 2 yard passes).   

In 2002 when he was healthy he was 2nd among all QB's in Y/A.  He was first in adjusted yards per attempt, top 10 in TD's despite only starting 12 games.

You must have missed it.  The guy had enough arm before he got hurt to be a top 5 NFL QB.  

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

In 2002 when he was healthy he was 2nd among all QB's in Y/A.  He was first in adjusted yards per attempt, top 10 in TD's despite only starting 12 games.

You must have missed it.  The guy had enough arm before he got hurt to be a top 5 NFL QB.  

I didn't miss it.  Is there a stat to break out how much of that was RAC?  My guess is that that's how he had such a high average.  

[tfine]

I remember Christmas night 2006 Jets at Dolphins...Jets were 9-6 and beat the Fins 13-10. Joe Thiesmann and Tony Kornheiser were announcing the game and all they can talk about was how weak Chads arm was...It was just terrible. 

[Dunnie]

I didn't vote because they are tough to compare since one guys strength always seems to be the other guy's weakness, except for accuracy. Chad was one of the most accurate passers ever based on completion percentage but O'Brien was accurate as well. People also forget that O'Brien played at a time with rules that made it more difficult to pass.  I'd be happy with either as my QB. Plus, they were both good guys and very easy to root for.

Exactly ... Therefore OB

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[Lith]

21 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Kenny O'Brien was the best Jets quarterback of my lifetime. A close runner up would be a journeyman, Ryan Fitzpatrick. That 2015 season was something real nice. 

Problem with considering Fitz a runner up is that he followed up that 2015 season with a Sanchez/Geno/Darnoldesque season in 2016 where he was awful.  And in 2015, he came up small in the biggest spot of the year.

He is well behind Kenny O and Chad on my list.  I would probably have him behind Sanchez as well.  At least Mark came up big in big spots.

[Dunnie]

Older guy here.  In my opinion the healthy combination of Toon, Walker, Shuler and McNeal was the best collection of skill players around any Jets QB including the championship team.  
 
Kenny obviously had a great arm.  He had the movement of a tackling sled.  He’s feel for the game was extremely poor.   Toons outrageous catch radius and lack of fear going after hospital balls bailed out Kenny numerous times.   He destroyed Toon.  I will always hate Kenny for that.  Toon was one of the most spectacular players this team every had. Kenny destroyed him.

I think the rules back then destroyed him ... I remember Lott giving an interview about his technique and it went something like ... "I ball up all my fire and then explode from my toes all the way up through my soul .. every ounce of me going into the hit" .. his ' woo hits '

Dude was a kamikaze.

Different game altogether than today.

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