Should you pay your QB a gazillion dollars and commit for many years

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

And a salary cap would fix that?

the purpose of the salary cap is not to create parity by the way, its to give owners an excuse to pay their players less

No but a salary floor certainly would help.  

[greenwichjetfan]

I just went through a few posts on the first page and stopped. It's frightening how much misinformation there is about player deals despite it all being out there on the internet. And the amount of likes that those posts are getting are just individual confirmations that people will just blindly follow anything.

For all the posts using GB as an example, you're 100% wrong. Davante Adams himself has admitted that GB offered him more money. Him not being there had nothing to do with them paying Aaron Rodgers. 

[Warfish]

Just now, hotrodcharlie said:

good call dummy 

the Yankees havent won a world series in over a decade and the Mets in over 3 decades

Why are you artificially limiting it to "Winning a World Series"?  

When was the last time the Yankees came in last place in the AL East?  Or had a losing record?  You know, lik ethe non-uber rich teams sometimes do.

Money doesn't buy World Series wins for one team every year, there are other teams with money after all, and as noted the occasional lucky smaller team. 

What it buys is a clear and consistent competitive advantage over teams that lack it.  

The Yankees have been in the postseason 24 of the last 28 years.  Give me a break if you don't really think their massive spending advantage over most other teams doesn't play a major part in that level of consistent competitiveness and lack of any down years (losing years).

 

 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

16 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

If we can sustain what we have now we should offer Zach 1M per year after his rookie contract is over. 

I laughed out loud. Which is the bigger insult, cutting a guy or paying an NFL QB 1m to start?

[65 Toss Power Trap]

16 hours ago, Mario said:

I would like the draft another QB in the first two rounds to go along with Zach. 

We need a solid second QB starting next year who can step in and start. It's hard to imagine getting that guy in the draft, but maybe. 

Basically, If Mike White is not at Nick-Foles-Level, we need a FA who can be. This team is playoff hunting the next few years, at least, we need a QB who can step in and not screw stuff up if Zach needs benched or gets hurt. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The Yankees have been in the postseason 24 of the last 28 years.  Give me a break if you don't really think their massive spending advantage over most other teams doesn't play a major part in that level of consistent competitiveness and lack of any down years (losing years).

And meanwhile the Tigers (8), Pirates (7), Royals (7), Orioles (6) and Diamondbacks (5) have all gone 5+ years without a postseason appearance.  Even with an ever-expanding field.

The Pirates and Orioles are also each on a 6-year streak of finishing no higher than 4th in their respective divisions.  

Wonder what the common denominator is for those franchises?   But sure, let's pretend the MLB has parity and the NFL doesn't. 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

14 hours ago, maury77 said:

Here are the 10 highest paid guys this year along with their records:

 

 

Aaron Rodgers (4-6)

Russell Wilson (3-6)

Kyler Murray (4-6)

Deshaun Watson (3-6 but he hasn't played) 

Patrick Mahomes (7-2)

Josh Allen (6-3)

Derek Carr (2-7)

Matt Stafford (3-6)

Dak Prescott (6-3)

Kirk Cousins (8-1) 

4 out of the 10 teams have winning records. 

Wow. Just . . . wow.

[hotrodcharlie]

21 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The Packers didn't lose Davante because of money issues. They offered him more than the Raiders. They lost him because (1) He was a Raiders fan growing up and always dreamt of playing for them, (2) his best friend and college QB happens to be the Raiders QB.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/10/davante-adams-confirms-packers-offered-bigger-contract-than-raiders

 

Also, Brady has been getting paid under the table for his whole career and was married to a superstar wife. He had no problem not maximizing his on-the-table money. Most players don't enjoy those same benefits. 

Can't blame Devante for wanting out. Rodgers is a prick

[hotrodcharlie]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And meanwhile the Tigers (8), Pirates (7), Royals (7), Orioles (6) and Diamondbacks (5) have all gone 5+ years without a postseason appearance.  Even with an ever-expanding field.

The Pirates and Orioles are also each on a 6-year streak of finishing no higher than 4th in their respective divisions.  

Wonder what the common denominator is for those franchises?   But sure, let's pretend the MLB has parity and the NFL doesn't. 

Cleveland and St. Louis were division winners. in the NFL those 2 teams were so sh*tty they moved away, but in baseball they are real contenders. 

The salary cap did not help them in the NFL. It doesnt help anyone actually but the owners. It gives them an excuse to be cheap

[The Crusher]

How the hell did my fat ass end up in the baseball forum?

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Cleveland and St. Louis were division winners. in the NFL those 2 teams were so sh*tty they moved away, but in baseball they are real contenders. 

The salary cap did not help them in the NFL. It doesnt help anyone actually but the owners. It gives them an excuse to be cheap

And yet there's still more parity in the NFL than the MLB by far.  Perhaps it was incidental/accidental and the cap/revenue sharing had little to do with that....but its true.

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Cleveland and St. Louis were division winners. in the NFL those 2 teams were so sh*tty they moved away, but in baseball they are real contenders. 

The salary cap did not help them in the NFL. It doesnt help anyone actually but the owners. It gives them an excuse to be cheap

Cleveland and Tampa are the outliers on the poor side, the same way the Mets are the outlier on the rich side. 

Remind us, are you a Yankees fan?  Do you think being ultra-rich hasn't helped them make the postseason 24 of the past 28 seasons?

Do you think a small market team could make it 24 out of 28 years if they just tried real hard?

[Biggs]

59 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lets be honest, most NY-based-team fans hate the cap because NY is the biggest $$$ market.

The Yankees aren't good because they're geniuses.  They're good because they have their TV deal $$$ and can spend more than anyone else, and more, can absorb fiscal mistakes better than anyone.  Same for L.A., and a few others. 

MLB is a clear-cut case of a two-tier system, the takers/big market teams, and the de facto farm teams at the Pro level.  Sure, a particularly well-led also-ran can get a one-year shot at a title before being disassembled by the big market clubs, and being rich doesn't make you smart (so big $$ teams can still suck once in a while), but it's clear that some teams will be competitive every year, and some only once every ten years, if that, or if ever.  And it's all about a lack of cap and a huge variance in local markets.

Yankees fans (and Mets fans too) are just terrified they're be utter crap if they actually had to play in an fair, even playing field system where they couldn't just buy their successes.  

Lets be really honest.  The AFL changed the NFL dramatically to a TV friendly format with lots of passing and scoring.  That happened in a competitive environment.  There has been no real innovation to the game since the merger.  

Fantasy football, rule changes and gambling have not improved the game as much as real competition.  

[Warfish]

Just now, Biggs said:

Lets be really honest.  The AFL changed the NFL dramatically to a TV friendly format with lots of passing and scoring.  That happened in a competitive environment.  There has been no real innovation to the game since the merger.  

Fantasy football, rule changes and gambling have not improved the game as much as real competition.  

WFL, USFL, XFL, XFL2, UFL, AAF were all NFL competitors.

They all failed, pretty much within one season.

What "improvements to the game" are you seeking", exactly?

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Lets be honest, most NY-based-team fans hate the cap because NY is the biggest $$$ market.

The Yankees aren't good because they're geniuses.  They're good because they have their TV deal $$$ and can spend more than anyone else, and more, can absorb fiscal mistakes better than anyone.  Same for L.A., and a few others. 

MLB is a clear-cut case of a two-tier system, the takers/big market teams, and the de facto farm teams at the Pro level.  Sure, a particularly well-led also-ran can get a one-year shot at a title before being disassembled by the big market clubs, and being rich doesn't make you smart (so big $$ teams can still suck once in a while), but it's clear that some teams will be competitive every year, and some only once every ten years, if that, or if ever.  And it's all about a lack of cap and a huge variance in local markets.

Yankees fans (and Mets fans too) are just terrified they're be utter crap if they actually had to play in an fair, even playing field system where they couldn't just buy their successes.  

Major league baseball was falling off a cliff when Steinbrenner bought the Yankees.   The Red Sox were lucky to get 7,000 fans to a Tuesday night game when Steinbrenner bought the Yankees.  The Yankees had a valuation of close to zero when he bought them.  They through in the stadium for nothing.  

Steinbrenner brought eyeballs to baseball across the country.   Most teams were being telivesed by local stations who were paying them a petience for the games.  He raised the value of the league and teams across the country.

You have this entirely ass backwards.  Steinbrenner created value to the owners and way more money for the players.  Most of the teams would be gone today without him.

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

WFL, USFL, XFL, XFL2, UFL, AAF were all NFL competitors.

They all failed, pretty much within one season.

What "improvements to the game" are you seeking", exactly?

Companies fail all the time.  When there is a monopoly, protected by the government, predatory practices make failure of new entrants almost guaranteed.  That's why they are illegal.   

It's comical that you use an example of a government sanctioned monopoly as your example.  

[jetstream23]

JD still has all the leverage here.  Zach is in Year 2, and the Jets can continue to evaluate and ride his rookie deal for a bit.  The next big decision would be the 5th year option, but the Jets should know by then if he's a keeper (or at least worth the 5th year option amount).

Remember how this transpired with Darnold.  Up until 5 minutes before the Darnold trade there was still heavy discussion about trying to "build around Sam," in that Draft or even trade the #2 pick to load up on weapons for him.

If Wilson is looking mediocre after next year (his third season), don't expect to hear anything from the Jets besides, "we're committed to Zach as the QB of this team," up until JD heads off to the Draft and says a casual goodbye to Zach....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hotrodcharlie]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And yet there's still more parity in the NFL than the MLB by far.  Perhaps it was incidental/accidental and the cap/revenue sharing had little to do with that....but its true.

How can you say that as a fan of the NY Jets? You watched the Patriots win our division for like 20 years straight

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

How can you say that as a fan of the NY Jets? You watched the Patriots win our division for like 20 years straight

It hasn't been a lack of spending that caused this.  Lack of spending has been directly tied to the lack of success for the MLB teams in question.  That's the key difference.  

Even then, there's far more parity in the NFL than the MLB.  The list of lengthy playoff absences is much shorter.  It's the Jets and Broncos.  That's it.  The only 2 franchises with lengthy playoff droughts.  I reeled off like 6 MLB teams in that category.  Even though there are more NFL teams than MLB teams.

Oh, and the Broncos won a SB the last time they were in the postseason.  The last time the O's made it they were dumped in the 1-game playoff round by the Jays.  

[hotrodcharlie]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It hasn't been a lack of spending that caused this.  Lack of spending has been directly tied to the lack of success for the MLB teams in question.  That's the key difference.  

 

That's an incorrect statement

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

That's an incorrect statement

lol huh?  The Pirates and O's are big spenders eh?

[hotrodcharlie]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

lol huh?  The Pirates and O's are big spenders eh?

No but plenty of teams spend and suck and plenty are cheap and win. Not sure why you bring up those 2 examples only. Actually I know why, its because they are the only examples you have

Besides, the Jets are among the cheapest when it comes to front office and coaching staff. so the problem is not solved by a salary cap

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

No but plenty of teams spend and suck and plenty are cheap and win. Not sure why you bring up those 2 examples only. Actually I know why, its because they are the only examples you have

Besides, the Jets are among the cheapest when it comes to front office and coaching staff. so the problem is not solved by a salary cap

Like I keep saying, a salary FLOOR would help fix the MLB's problem.

 

Pirates current payroll:  $16.8M (# 29).

Orioles current payroll:  $8.6M (# 30).

 

That's why I keep mentioning those 2 franchises (though I did list more, which you ignored).  They spend a small fraction of what the top guys or even the middle teams spend.  The Giants, at # 17, have a payroll over $70M.

How is this even a discussion?

[hotrodcharlie]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Like I keep saying, a salary FLOOR would help fix the MLB's problem.

 

Pirates current payroll:  $16.8M (# 29).

Orioles current payroll:  $8.6M (# 30).

 

That's why I keep mentioning those 2 franchises (though I did list more, which you ignored).  They spend a small fraction of what the top guys or even the middle teams spend.  The Giants, at # 17, have a payroll over $70M.

How is this even a discussion?

Ok then why keep bringing up a salary cap when you think they just need a floor? I agree, very weird discussion

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Ok then why keep bringing up a salary cap when you think they just need a floor?

I said they need a salary floor like 4 times.  So did @Warfish.  You just don't read the actual posts.  And meanwhile you're the one operating as if a lack of spending isn't an actual problem in the MLB when clearly it is for several cheap-a$$ franchises.

Cap, floor, revenue sharing.  Those 3 elements all help create parity.  MLB already has a "soft cap".  They need the other 2 elements to fix the issue.

[hotrodcharlie]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I said they need a salary floor like 4 times.  So did @Warfish.  You just don't read the actual posts.  And meanwhile you're the one operating as if a lack of spending isn't an actual problem in the MLB when clearly it is for several cheap-a$$ franchises.

 

No, I didnt

[Biggs]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I said they need a salary floor like 4 times.  So did @Warfish.  You just don't read the actual posts.  And meanwhile you're the one operating as if a lack of spending isn't an actual problem in the MLB when clearly it is for several cheap-a$$ franchises.

Cap, floor, revenue sharing.  Those 3 elements all help create parity.  MLB already has a "soft cap".  They need the other 2 elements to fix the issue.

The cheap ass franchises should be eliminated.  They are diluting the talent and the product.  

[rangerous]

19 hours ago, Larz said:

Yes. The trouble comes when a WR, DE or CB also wants a gazillion because you have to let one of them go 

 

Hill and Adams both would have been kept if Mahomes and Rodgers didn’t get a gazillion 

honestly, i'm not sure.  i think the chiefs are pretty well run and took a page from the baseball's billy ball and got rid of a player nearing the backside of their career.  plus they had also earlier re-signed mahomes so maybe didn't have enough cap room.  and much as both of those players are good, they only touch the ball maybe 10 times per game.  mahomes and rodgers has to touch 50-60.  we saw what happens yesterday when allen doesn't touch it.

[Jetsfan80]

42 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

No, I didnt

lol ok then.  Good talk.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

The cheap ass franchises should be eliminated.  They are diluting the talent and the product.  

A soon as we eliminate perennial 2nd tier teams in cities with two teams first.  

Neither idea will fix anything about competitive balance in MLB, but I guess it'll be fun?

[Jet2020]

Guys, chill. We have nothing to worry here. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I said they need a salary floor like 4 times.  So did @Warfish.  You just don't read the actual posts.  And meanwhile you're the one operating as if a lack of spending isn't an actual problem in the MLB when clearly it is for several cheap-a$$ franchises.

Cap, floor, revenue sharing.  Those 3 elements all help create parity.  MLB already has a "soft cap".  They need the other 2 elements to fix the issue.

**** you and your parity.  I am a Yankee fan!