CBS QB Rankings: Zach stinks

[Sonny Werblin]

6 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

It never ceases to amaze me how fans can look at a player who is ranked at the very bottom of his position and argue he is a reason why his team is winning. We aren’t talking about a middle of the pack player here, Wilson has been one of if not the very worst QB’s in the league from day one.

Everything you’ve seen from him screams out that this team is winning despite him. They are trying everything they can to work around him. In the two years we’ve seen him, I can’t honestly think of more than two or three times he’s had a major role in the team’s winning. On the other hand, there have been many where he was a big factor in a loss, or at most a bit player in a win.

 

A QB does far more than throw the ball.

[SuicidalSince98]

8 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

It never ceases to amaze me how fans can look at a player who is ranked at the very bottom of his position and argue he is a reason why his team is winning. We aren’t talking about a middle of the pack player here, Wilson has been one of if not the very worst QB’s in the league from day one.

Everything you’ve seen from him screams out that this team is winning despite him. They are trying everything they can to work around him. In the two years we’ve seen him, I can’t honestly think of more than two or three times he’s had a major role in the team’s winning. On the other hand, there have been many where he was a big factor in a loss, or at most a bit player in a win.

 

Says the guy that thinks Baker Mayfield is an NFL QB

[dcJet]

Someone said on the radio that Zach and Carr are the only QB's to regress this year after getting more weapons.  

 

[JiF]

49 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Fair IMO.  

Zach is currently 33rd amongst starting QB's in Completion % (57.5%), with only Russel Wilson and Mayfield behind him.

He's 33rd in TD Pass % (2.4%) with only Pickett and Fields behind him.

He's 28th in INT Pass % (3.0) with Mariotta, Mills, Prescott, Dalton, Fields, Pickett and Jones worse, in that order.

He's 23rd in Passing Yards pert Game (200.3), that Pats Game helping in this category.  Amongst others, Pickett, Mariotta, Fields and Mayfield are all behind him.

He's 34th in QB Rating (75.5) with only Pickett behind him.

I think there is a fair argument for Pickett, Mariotta and Mayfield to be ranked behind Zach as a passer.

Fields is interesting, because as a passer he's clearly behind Zach, no question.  But Fields has 749 rushing yards and 6 TD's to Zach's 68 yards and 1 TD, and that would likely be enough to propel Fields over Zach in any ranking like this.

So maybe he belongs in that 28-29 spot.  With 29/30/31/32 being Fields/Mariotta/Mayfield/Pickett is some order.

Spot on JiF.

Disagree Fields is "clearly" a worse passer.  Nothing really to support that statement and would strongly argue that Wilson is behind Fields from that perspective.  Wilson is actually tracking as the worst passer of the Football in the NFL.   Wilson has thrown more picks than TD's this season, 4/5 (in Kenny Pickett, Mac Jones, Jameis Winston territory).  Fields literally has 3x as many passing TD's. Fields has 12 passing TD's on the year, Wilson has 13 passing TD's on 19 career starts.    And that's just the superficial stuff, that's not getting into the clear distinctions in situations that heavily favor Wilson to the extreme.  That said, both need to improve as passers for sure, especially comp% but Fields is notch better and improving weekly.  Overall though, drastic differences in efficiency and just not even comparable when you add the run ability and that one has to carry his entire team while the other is being carried.

oh, and just fyi, not sure about those stats. 

Fields is 5th overall in TD Pass %. 

1.Tua Tagovailoa • MIA7.3%

2.Patrick Mahomes • KAN6.8%

3.Lamar Jackson • BAL6.2%

4.Josh Allen • BUF5.9%

5.Justin Fields • CHI5.8%

 

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I disagree on the experience part, but I am in lockstep with you on sitting a young QB for 1 or even 2 seasons.

BTW, I think your views on sitting a rookie QB are at odds with your views on the value of experience for an NFL QB.

Sitting and learning is experience.  I know not everyone agrees with that (unless the topic is the vast experience advantage of say, Mike White, lol).

Some kids are good enough or ready enough right off.  Some aren't.  Those that aren't shouldn't be drafted so high IMO, but if they are, the still need to sit till ready.  This is a conundrum wholly self-created by the NFL coaching and front office establishment.

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Disagree Fields is "clearly" a worse passer.

Ok.  Call them close then.  Not a hill I have any desire to die on, rhetorically.  

Hell, I was a "Draft Fields" guy myself.  But he's not been the passer I'd hoped he would be, yet.

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

oh, and just fyi, not sure about those stats. 

It's Trubisky, not Fields.  My bad, I'll fix the post now.  

[Fantasy Island]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Nah, it's not literarily this forum - this forum is just an example of the way Jet fans are acting....

You choose to spend your time attacking the QB around here - apparently that makes you happy - so good for you I guess..

But my point holds.  If you don't think the media consistently hears from Jet fans that they hate their 6-1 QB - and that permeates the way they view him you are small minded - LMAO!!!!

Everyone sees we win in spite of him.  Come on.

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, undertow said:

that was laugh out loud funny.

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

And I will even go as far to say that Zach really has not put it all together quite yet.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

[JiF]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ok.  Call them close then.  Not a hill I have any desire to die on, rhetorically.  

Hell, I was a "Draft Fields" guy myself.  But he's not been the passer I'd hoped he would be, yet.

Fair and stats dont tell the whole story but there is an efficiency gap between the 2, that's for sure.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

17 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Someone said on the radio that Zach and Carr are the only QB's to regress this year after getting more weapons.  

 

I am very skeptical on Zach but how has he regressed?

 

[TuscanyTile2]

19 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Disagree Fields is "clearly" a worse passer.  Nothing really to support that statement and would strongly argue that Wilson is behind Fields from that perspective.  Wilson is actually tracking as the worst passer of the Football in the NFL.   Wilson has thrown more picks than TD's this season, 4/5 (in Kenny Pickett, Mac Jones, Jameis Winston territory).  Fields literally has 3x as many passing TD's. Fields has 12 passing TD's on the year, Wilson has 13 passing TD's on 19 career starts.    And that's just the superficial stuff, that's not getting into the clear distinctions in situations that heavily favor Wilson to the extreme.  That said, both need to improve as passers for sure, especially comp% but Fields is notch better and improving weekly.  Overall though, drastic differences in efficiency and just not even comparable when you add the run ability and that one has to carry his entire team while the other is being carried.

oh, and just fyi, not sure about those stats. 

Fields is 5th overall in TD Pass %. 

1.Tua Tagovailoa • MIA7.3%

2.Patrick Mahomes • KAN6.8%

3.Lamar Jackson • BAL6.2%

4.Josh Allen • BUF5.9%

5.Justin Fields • CHI5.8%

 

Yes, but nobody is better at handing off the football to his RBs than ZW!

[David Harris]

I know Justin Fields is an amazing runner and can throw some beautiful balls but every time I watch him he takes 7 seconds to throw it.

[Stark]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Kenny Pickett over him is harsh.  lol  Mac Jones and Mayfield too, they're both atrocious players.  Matt Ryan seems high based on this year.  Probably 25-28 range for Zach if I'm taking a list seriously.  The top 15 looks about right, probably put Fields in the top 10-5 range because he's full blown superstar but otherwise, seems fair.

 

yeah 25-30 is about right for how he's performed to this point. I wasn't too concerned with the list rankings that were provided. 

Fields.. smh, right now hard to argue he shouldn't be up there. that guy has been given nothing by the Bears. sure he's made some mistakes but he's a beast,

Pickett, ha, so here's the thing. a full blown rookie. 67% passing same games as Zach this year and basically same passing yds, and double the rush yds. he does have more INT's than Zach. Im not saying he should be above Zach but he's doing things Zach hasn't yet. 

im just hoping Zach can perform to the level of 10-18 range by end of year. so yes averageish instead of where he is now

[Green Ghost]

27 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Says the guy that thinks Baker Mayfield is an NFL QB

If you think Wilson is a better QB than Baker Mayfield, you’re insane. It’s not even a discussion.

There isn’t one piece of evidence you can show me that would support that argument, other than your hopes and dreams.

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Agreed. I think it is unfair to evaluate Wilson by comparing him to players with far more experience. I totally get what the Jets see in Wilson. The guy has an enormous amount of talent. Based on how well Saleh and his coaching staff has done developing young players and Saleh's stated belief that Wilson does not get enough credit for the plays he makes and getting the Jets into good plays at the line,  I'm just going with "In Robert I Trust" on Zach Wilson. So long as Robert Saleh believes in Wilson, I will too. 

If Wilson was an UDFA would he still be on the team today?

Nope

[FidelioJet]

16 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Everyone sees we win in spite of him.  Come on.

Nah...

What I call it is the Jet fan "Anti-Zach Psychosis"

How do you reconcile:

I hate Zach Wilson and he sucks

with

He's 5-1 as a starter - and the Jets are a good team right now

The only way to do that is to continue to convince yourself that somehow the most important position in all of sports actually really sucks and it's only because the team around is why they're winning.

It's utter non-sense.  And all y'all just can't see through your own hatred of the kid (yes, I'm using the word hatred) 

I believe you and many others are so self-righteous about your position - because you actually believe it.  So this obnoxious, sanctimonious attitude is, I guess, okay.  Because you truly do believe it.  You're literally incapable of seeing the positive.  

You dug in so deep long before the draft - That Zach's a bust.

That it's become clear to me that removing this psychosis might be near impossible.

 

[Green Ghost]

32 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

A QB does far more than throw the ball.

A plumber does far more than unclog toilets. 

 

[Grandy]

[Fantasy Island]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Nah...

What I call it is the Jet fan "Anti-Zach Psychosis"

How do you reconcile:

I hate Zach Wilson and he sucks

with

He's 5-1 as a starter - and the Jets are a good team right now

The only way to do that is to continue to convince yourself that somehow the most important position in all of sports actually really sucks and it's only because the team around is why they're winning.

It's utter non-sense.  And all y'all just can't see through your own hatred of the kid (yes, I'm using the word hatred) 

I believe you and many others are so self-righteous about your position - because you actually believe it.  So this obnoxious, sanctimonious attitude is, I guess, okay.  Because you truly do believe it.  You're literally incapable of seeing the positive.  

You dug in so deep long before the draft - That Zach's a bust.

That it's become clear to me that removing this psychosis might be near impossible.

 

Why is it that Zach is ranked so low in EVERY sports media site?

Is it a conspiracy, or dare I say it........ the truth.

[Stark]

40 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Disagree Fields is "clearly" a worse passer.  Nothing really to support that statement and would strongly argue that Wilson is behind Fields from that perspective.  Wilson is actually tracking as the worst passer of the Football in the NFL.   Wilson has thrown more picks than TD's this season, 4/5 (in Kenny Pickett, Mac Jones, Jameis Winston territory).  Fields literally has 3x as many passing TD's. Fields has 12 passing TD's on the year, Wilson has 13 passing TD's on 19 career starts.    And that's just the superficial stuff, that's not getting into the clear distinctions in situations that heavily favor Wilson to the extreme.  That said, both need to improve as passers for sure, especially comp% but Fields is notch better and improving weekly.  Overall though, drastic differences in efficiency and just not even comparable when you add the run ability and that one has to carry his entire team while the other is being carried.

oh, and just fyi, not sure about those stats. 

Fields is 5th overall in TD Pass %. 

1.Tua Tagovailoa • MIA7.3%

2.Patrick Mahomes • KAN6.8%

3.Lamar Jackson • BAL6.2%

4.Josh Allen • BUF5.9%

5.Justin Fields • CHI5.8%

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

If Wilson was a 4th year starter, this conversation would have a hell of a lot more merit to it.

Right  now, it's just exhausting and redundant annoyance.

Wilson just played his best game of the year against a top rate D. Hes had some awful moments this year, and some pretty good moments. 

Can we see how he plays the rest of the year and see if he has more good moments the rest of the year? We have nobody on the roster who is likely to perform meaningfully better than him that has any upside long term whatsoever.

 

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Why is it that Zach is ranked so low in EVERY sports media site?

Is it a conspiracy, or dare I say it........ the truth.

I thought I explained that at the beginning of this thread.  All part of Jet Fan Anti-Zach Psychosis.

[dcJet]

34 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I am very skeptical on Zach but how has he regressed?

 

I think the point was Zach and Carr were given elite level weapon(s) this year and both failed to improve.  

It's clear the coaches don't trust Zach or Carr so they are getting Sanchez game plans.

Meanwhile Tua and Fields were unleashed.

[bitonti]

49 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sitting and learning is experience.  I know not everyone agrees with that (unless the topic is the vast experience advantage of say, Mike White, lol).

Some kids are good enough or ready enough right off.  Some aren't.  Those that aren't shouldn't be drafted so high IMO, but if they are, the still need to sit till ready.  This is a conundrum wholly self-created by the NFL coaching and front office establishment.

If only there were other leagues where players could prove their worth and develop as QBs 

 

 

 

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, dcJet said:

It's clear the coaches don't trust Zach or Carr so they are getting Sanchez game plans.

the passing numbers from 2010 Sanchez and 2022 Wilson are almost identical 

the thing is... if Sauce keeps playing like Revis as a team they can be a live dog with almost anyone. 

 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

How can anyone be upset that ZW is ranked so low. As of today he’s one of the worst qbs in the league. Hard to argue against that. He’s near bottom in almost every statistical category. All we can do is hope he improves. The talent is there. Can this Coaching staff bring it out? 

[TuscanyTile2]

31 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Nah...

What I call it is the Jet fan "Anti-Zach Psychosis"

How do you reconcile:

I hate Zach Wilson and he sucks

with

He's 5-1 as a starter - and the Jets are a good team right now

The only way to do that is to continue to convince yourself that somehow the most important position in all of sports actually really sucks and it's only because the team around is why they're winning.

It's utter non-sense.  And all y'all just can't see through your own hatred of the kid (yes, I'm using the word hatred) 

I believe you and many others are so self-righteous about your position - because you actually believe it.  So this obnoxious, sanctimonious attitude is, I guess, okay.  Because you truly do believe it.  You're literally incapable of seeing the positive.  

You dug in so deep long before the draft - That Zach's a bust.

That it's become clear to me that removing this psychosis might be near impossible.

 

This is dumb.  Jet fans want ZW to succeed.  They're just being realistic that he needs to do more.  He does.  

[Barry McCockinner]

16 minutes ago, dcJet said:

I think the point was Zach and Carr were given elite level weapon(s) this year and both failed to improve.  

It's clear the coaches don't trust Zach or Carr so they are getting Sanchez game plans.

Meanwhile Tua and Fields were unleashed.

Zach just played his best game of the season against Buffalo. A lot of the things he had been struggling with seemed to have gone away. Namely, getting rid of the ball on time, not bailing on a clean pocket/doing laps in backfield, and taking off running when appropriate. Hopefully something has clicked for him and he's turning a corner.

Big test this week.

 

 

[Hex]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Zach just played his best game of the season against Buffalo. A lot of the things he had been struggling with seemed to have gone away. Namely, getting rid of the ball on time, bailing on a clean pocket, and taking off running when appropriate. Hopefully something has clicked for him and he's turning a corner.

Big test this week.

 

 

I agree. I saw a step up that looked deliberate. Hopefully he repeats this against the Patriots. We'll see, I guess.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I love when the Fields haters get all defensive on ZW and their knee-jerk response is to crap on Fields' rushing ability. 

As if it's a bad thing that your QB can bust out for 150+ and multi TDs on the ground in any given game.

Fields is also superior to Wilson as a passer.

So the fact Fields is dynamite on the ground only adds to his value and star power.

[LSJF]

24 minutes ago, dcJet said:

I think the point was Zach and Carr were given elite level weapon(s) this year and both failed to improve.  

It's clear the coaches don't trust Zach or Carr so they are getting Sanchez game plans.

Meanwhile Tua and Fields were unleashed.

Last three games Fields averaged 148 passing yards, unleashed 😂…. Compare him to Breece Hall, that’s more accurate, running back to running back

[CanadienJetsFan]

5-1

[FidelioJet]

41 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

If Wilson was a 4th year starter, this conversation would have a hell of a lot more merit to it.

Right  now, it's just exhausting and redundant annoyance.

Wilson just played his best game of the year against a top rate D. Hes had some awful moments this year, and some pretty good moments. 

Can we see how he plays the rest of the year and see if he has more good moments the rest of the year? We have nobody on the roster who is likely to perform meaningfully better than him that has any upside long term whatsoever.

 

The Psychosis is too strong around here.

It doesn't matter how well he plays.

He won't be able to do enough to be deemed a good QB by Jet fans...

Sad and unfortunate.