JetNation Forums will always be there for you, Twitter may not

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I would love to see a complete open source twitter with a no revenue model.  Lets try the absolutists positions on free speech and see where it goes.  

Isn’t that the internet?

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

The sweet, sweet irony of me literally noIt saying one thing about politics, yet you calling it political diatribe. You can't make this stuff up. I hope you are well compensated for your loyalty, soldier

It was a nice try, but too obvious. My only loyalty is to trying to figure out how Musk screwed up so badly, and did so repeatedly. 

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Isn’t that the internet?

Yes it is.  

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, GandWFan said:

So he is a smart businessman.  I concur.

In this instance he was indeed. I was merely correcting the notion that somehow Musk hired a bunch of guys from the private sector who did the job better than NASA engineers. He hired NASA funded engineers who built the Mars Rover, etc. and essentially privatized them.

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, GandWFan said:

For those upset how Musk layed off workers at Twitter, those workers got 3 months paid notice.  Not bad from a prick.

Were you equally upset when Disney layed off and off shored their entire IT department with no notice, and FORCED them to train their replacements or they got no severance?

Do you still subscribe to Disney+, go to Disney World, buy Disney merch?

And Disney is not the only company to do this. Happens all the time in the IT world. (Off shoring is usually a disaster, btw)

As per industry standards, Twitter employees were treated pretty good by Musk.  Especially for a workforce that wanted to sabotage him.  

 

Why would anyone care that Musk layed off workers?  We need layoffs to get inflation under control.  Less employed people will lower demand and help bring inflation under control.  I hope he fires everyone at all his companies so I can afford to buy Captain Crunch cereal next month. 

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

It was a nice try, but too obvious. My only loyalty is to trying to figure out how Musk screwed up so badly, and did so repeatedly. 

If Musk is in fact screwing up (or intentionally sabotaging) then he’s a hero. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

47 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

My guess when they peeled back the onion there was some funny business going on with the funding prior to Elon taking over. It definitely wasn’t operating on just advertising dollars.

Musk knew the ground was shaky under Twitter going in. He still made an offer and it was agreed to. He was stuck Dorsey had been on record that the company was growing too fast and would need to pull back. That part anybody could understand. Most acquisitions usually commence with consolidation and "streamlining" of staffing as well as replacement of previous executive staff with loyalists. That's as old as time. What Musk did was much different. He signed an agreement he couldn't get out of, damaged the share price of Twitter in his legal twisting in the wind, was then forced to buy at an inflated price, which then led to him retaliating against Twitter executives for his stupidity, following which he cut half the staff in a ridiculously short time and followed it with threats that bounced another 30%. It was just pitiful. I don't use Twitter and could care less if they go belly up, but anybody who tries to argue that Musk will pull a rabbit out of this hat is deluding himself. Musk can afford to take a bath on this mess, but it will not go down as an example of his "genius" by a long stretch. It became personal for him and that was catastrophic.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If Musk is in fact screwing up (or intentionally sabotaging) then he’s a hero. 

Of course. In Muskland he is always a hero, even when he's a juvenile dunce.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Musk knew the ground was shaky under Twitter going in. He still made an offer and it was agreed to. He was stuck Dorsey had been on record that the company was growing too fast and would need to pull back. That part anybody could understand. Most acquisitions usually commence with consolidation and "streamlining" of staffing as well as replacement of previous executive staff with loyalists. That's as old as time. What Musk did was much different. He signed an agreement he couldn't get out of, damaged the share price of Twitter in his legal twisting in the wind, was then forced to buy at an inflated price, which then led to him retaliating against Twitter executives for his stupidity, following which he cut half the staff in a ridiculously short time and followed it with threats that bounced another 30%. It was just pitiful. I don't use Twitter and could care less if they go belly up, but anybody who tries to argue that Musk will pull a rabbit out of this hat is deluding himself. Musk can afford to take a bath on this mess, but it will not go down as an example of his "genius" by a long stretch. It became personal for him and that was catastrophic.

Like I said if he successfully kills Twitter I’ll only buy tesla and spacex for the rest of my life. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

13 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

It was a nice try, but too obvious. My only loyalty is to trying to figure out how Musk screwed up so badly, and did so repeatedly. 

If Musk loses all 45billion he spent on Twitter, but it gets rid of what it was, its the best 45billion ever spent in the history of spending money. Your loyalty is clear, its on your sleeve.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Like I said if he successfully kills Twitter I’ll only buy tesla and spacex for the rest of my life. 

Amen!!

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Of course. In Muskland he is always a hero, even when he's a juvenile dunce.

Look at your temper tantrum, its quite impressive.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Like I said if he successfully kills Twitter I’ll only buy tesla and spacex for the rest of my life. 

That's your perogative. But if you really think Musk is intentionally trying to kill Twitter, you really are in fantasyland. He's just screwing up. And he is certainly not happy to lose his investment -- the same one he tried desperately to rescue through legal challenges that he knew he could not win.

I'm always amazed at how people manage to twist things to reinforce their worldview. One thing that the internet age has accomplished, quite against expectation, is to provide pipelines for like-thinking people to reinforce each other in information siloes. It's a disease that affects all political/ideological/religious persuasions and its pretty toxic. People have become so hardened in their beliefs that they mistake them for facts and suddenly we are all grouped in tribal warfare. It's a sad and very ironic outcome of the "information" age.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

9 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Look at your temper tantrum, its quite impressive.

LOL. No temper involved. Just dispassionate observation.

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Musk knew the ground was shaky under Twitter going in. He still made an offer and it was agreed to. He was stuck Dorsey had been on record that the company was growing too fast and would need to pull back. That part anybody could understand. Most acquisitions usually commence with consolidation and "streamlining" of staffing as well as replacement of previous executive staff with loyalists. That's as old as time. What Musk did was much different. He signed an agreement he couldn't get out of, damaged the share price of Twitter in his legal twisting in the wind, was then forced to buy at an inflated price, which then led to him retaliating against Twitter executives for his stupidity, following which he cut half the staff in a ridiculously short time and followed it with threats that bounced another 30%. It was just pitiful. I don't use Twitter and could care less if they go belly up, but anybody who tries to argue that Musk will pull a rabbit out of this hat is deluding himself. Musk can afford to take a bath on this mess, but it will not go down as an example of his "genius" by a long stretch. It became personal for him and that was catastrophic.

Musk didn't damage the share price of twitter.  He grossly inflated it.  It's no longer a public company he owns it.  The shareholders of the previous public company called twitter did extremely well.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

That's your perogative. But if you really think Musk is intentionally trying to kill Twitter, you really are in fantasyland. He's just screwing up. And he is certainly not happy to lose his investment -- the same one he tried desperately to rescue through legal challenges that he knew he could not win.

I'm always amazed at how people manage to twist things to reinforce their worldview. One thing that the internet age has accomplished, quite against expectation, is to provide pipelines for like-thinking people to reinforce each other in information siloes. It's a disease that affects all political/ideological/religious persuasions and its pretty toxic. People have become so hardened in their beliefs that they mistake them for facts and suddenly we are all grouped in tribal warfare. It's a sad and very ironic outcome of the "information" age.

It’s not my perogative. Merely speculation. My honest opinion is he’s going to take constant heat but twitter will operate normally for the long term. We can check in next month to see how it’s going. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

5 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

LOL. No temper involved. Just dispassionate observation.

LOL, sure

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It’s not my perogative. Merely speculation. My honest opinion is he’s going to take constant heat but twitter will operate normally for the long term. We can check in next month to see how it’s going. 

Probably.  I suspect several disgruntled former employees will bring it down enough times to be annoying. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Musk didn't damage the share price of twitter.  He grossly inflated it.  It's no longer a public company he owns it.  The shareholders of the previous public company called twitter did extremely well.

In the very short run prior to his purchase that's correct. But compared to Twitter at its peak in 2021, the price tumbled, largely due to the uncertainty created by Musk's attempt to jettison the purchase. Once it was clear he was hooked, the price climbed, but not anywhere near previous highs.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It’s not my perogative. Merely speculation. My honest opinion is he’s going to take constant heat but twitter will operate normally for the long term. We can check in next month to see how it’s going. 

Perogative to buy whatever you want. Will Twitter find its footing and survive? If Musk is willing to take a bath on his bad investment and prop it up in some shrunken version of its previous self, perhaps. He has enough resources to gussy up any bad business practice and claim victory. It's all part of the narrative.

[Biggs]

11 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

In the very short run prior to his purchase that's correct. But compared to Twitter at its peak in 2021, the price tumbled, largely due to the uncertainty created by Musk's attempt to jettison the purchase. Once it was clear he was hooked, the price climbed, but not anywhere near previous highs.

The price was at 44.91 in December of 01.   The nasdaq was down close to 30% before Musk made an offer.  There earnings sucked and with interest rates going up their PE ratio collapased.  That had nothing to do with Musk.  He saved the shareholders who didn't get out.  The company is on a revenue slide in a rising interest rate environment.   The company in the short run was a turd that could very well have been headed for bankruptcy without him. 

He grossly over paid and bailed out the shareholders who hung in.  

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Perogative to buy whatever you want. Will Twitter find its footing and survive? If Musk is willing to take a bath on his bad investment and prop it up in some shrunken version of its previous self, perhaps. He has enough resources to gussy up any bad business practice and claim victory. It's all part of the narrative.

It sounds like you’re hedging already 

[bitonti]

Max fwiw I'd pay 8 dollars for a green checkmark 

[freestater]

Said it before, I'll say it again...the 21st century's John DeLorean. 

[GandWFan]

56 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Musk knew the ground was shaky under Twitter going in. He still made an offer and it was agreed to. He was stuck Dorsey had been on record that the company was growing too fast and would need to pull back. That part anybody could understand. Most acquisitions usually commence with consolidation and "streamlining" of staffing as well as replacement of previous executive staff with loyalists. That's as old as time. What Musk did was much different. He signed an agreement he couldn't get out of, damaged the share price of Twitter in his legal twisting in the wind, was then forced to buy at an inflated price, which then led to him retaliating against Twitter executives for his stupidity, following which he cut half the staff in a ridiculously short time and followed it with threats that bounced another 30%. It was just pitiful. I don't use Twitter and could care less if they go belly up, but anybody who tries to argue that Musk will pull a rabbit out of this hat is deluding himself. Musk can afford to take a bath on this mess, but it will not go down as an example of his "genius" by a long stretch. It became personal for him and that was catastrophic.

First you describe what happens in all takeovers, and then blame Musk for following the blueprint.  Sounds like "Elon man bad" too me.  

Btw, did you see the Twitter employees demands letter?  Ridiculous.  After that they should be fired for cause, not layed off with 3 months salary, plus severance.

Btw, I am not a fan or follower of MG Barbie.  I just searched Twitter for Twitter employees demands letter and selected the first one, so no politics.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

30 minutes ago, GandWFan said:

First you describe what happens in all takeovers, and then blame Musk for following the blueprint.  Sounds like "Elon man bad" too me.  

Btw, did you see the Twitter employees demands letter?  Ridiculous.  After that they should be fired for cause, not layed off with 3 months salary, plus severance.

Btw, I am not a fan or follower of MG Barbie.  I just searched Twitter for Twitter employees demands letter and selected the first one, so no politics.

I don't know what you're reading, but Musk didn't follow any conventional takeover plan at all. He didn't want Twitter in the first place so that already created a pretty f'd up purchase environment. Nor am I pro-entitled employees at Twitter. I don't even use Twitter. I don't care if the company lives or dies. But I also can't see for the life of me how this whole mess somehow validates Elon Musk's brilliance. It was a mistake, followed by further mistakes, and is now a hot mess. SpaceX? A successful enterprise. Tesla? Overall, a success with some turbulence along the way. Twitter? Not so much.

[Beerfish]

When you keep being told you are the smartest guy around sooner or later you believe it but once you venture outside of things, where you have less total control, you find out it is not always easy.  You see this in pro sports ownership all the time, super successful people who think that they can use their same magic wand they have used to make them successful.  (See the Carolina Panthers owner).

This is what I see here.   Musk made a bold decision based not on business but on personal feelings, had immediate buyers regret but is now doubling down.  It will be interesting to see what happens over time.  To me the online commutations industry is a get in and get out industry because things move so quick technology wise these days that platforms that seem unassailable can fall out of favor very quickly if a decent alternative pops up.

[Barry McCockinner]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

I would love to see a complete open source twitter with a no revenue model.  Lets try the absolutists positions on free speech and see where it goes.  

Seems like a great idea but who's going to build and maintain this thing for free, let alone pay for operating costs? What happens when it's overrun by spam bots?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

The price was at 44.91 in December of 01.   The nasdaq was down close to 30% before Musk made an offer.  There earnings sucked and with interest rates going up their PE ratio collapased.  That had nothing to do with Musk.  He saved the shareholders who didn't get out.  The company is on a revenue slide in a rising interest rate environment.   The company in the short run was a turd that could very well have been headed for bankruptcy without him. 

He grossly over paid and bailed out the shareholders who hung in.  

Of course you know better than one of the most successful business men of our lifetime.... The arrogance...... And even if he did, what do you give a crap what he spent on it? Your'e more upset that he bought it and is changing it than what he spent on it.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, freestater said:

Said it before, I'll say it again...the 21st century's John DeLorean. 

So you had this bad take originally, then doubled down on it?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

37 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

When you keep being told you are the smartest guy around sooner or later you believe it but once you venture outside of things, where you have less total control, you find out it is not always easy.  You see this in pro sports ownership all the time, super successful people who think that they can use their same magic wand they have used to make them successful.  (See the Carolina Panthers owner).

This is what I see here.   Musk made a bold decision based not on business but on personal feelings, had immediate buyers regret but is now doubling down.  It will be interesting to see what happens over time.  To me the online commutations industry is a get in and get out industry because things move so quick technology wise these days that platforms that seem unassailable can fall out of favor very quickly if a decent alternative pops up.

You realize that billionaires are taking over the media right? And most media outlets are not profitable ventures. Look at Wapo, LATimes, etc. Billionaires are taking over the media, and they don't really care what they spend on it. They have a much different reason than making money to buy these outlets

[rex-n-effect]

1 hour ago, GandWFan said:

Btw, did you see the Twitter employees demands letter?  Ridiculous.  After that they should be fired for cause, not layed off with 3 months salary, plus severance.

 

Employees have the right to cooperate to assert better work conditions and compensation under the National Labor Relations Act (and presumably a similar state law in California). Firing them for collective action would invite likely meritorious claims by all the terminated employees.

[GandWFan]

3 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

 

Employees have the right to cooperate to assert better work conditions and compensation under the National Labor Relations Act (and presumably a similar state law in California). Firing them for collective action would invite likely meritorious claims by all the terminated employees.

They are not unionized.  They are at-will employees in an at-will employment state.  Try again.

[Mike135]

It's twitter.  Who cares?

 

If it collapses, another app will take its place shortly. 

[GandWFan]

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

I don't know what you're reading, but Musk didn't follow any conventional takeover plan at all. He didn't want Twitter in the first place so that already created a pretty f'd up purchase environment. Nor am I pro-entitled employees at Twitter. I don't even use Twitter. I don't care if the company lives or dies. But I also can't see for the life of me how this whole mess somehow validates Elon Musk's brilliance. It was a mistake, followed by further mistakes, and is now a hot mess. SpaceX? A successful enterprise. Tesla? Overall, a success with some turbulence along the way. Twitter? Not so much.

He got control of the company, took it private, fired the executive management team, and laid off the dead wood employees.  Exactly your takeover model.  How he got control of the company is not relevant to the conversation.