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Cimini: Jets defense has “raw” feelings towards Zach


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5 minutes ago, ZachStepdad said:

There’s no problem with just benching Zach for a game or few, the greatest coach of all time in Belicheck just did that this season with jones and went back to him and pulling out wins …. I feel like people are overthinking this benching stuff and thinking if he’s benched it’s all over for him on this team

He should be benched and it should be all over .

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7 minutes ago, ZachStepdad said:

There’s no problem with just benching Zach for a game or few, the greatest coach of all time in Belicheck just did that this season with jones and went back to him and pulling out wins …. I feel like people are overthinking this benching stuff and thinking if he’s benched it’s all over for him on this team

you can do that when you have the cache of bill belicheck. you cannot when you have the record and unsettled tenure of robert saleh.  just my opinion

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6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm going to try and put a little nuance into this without this coming across as me making excuses for Zach....But I think it's more than just - Zach you sucked so it's your fault.

Saleh has be preaching and Zach repeating - over and over again that Zach was just a small piece of the puzzle.  The "What we're trying to do"....

Zach was asked to play safe, Zach was asked to not take chances, Zach was asked to not lose the game...

I'm sure Saleh's been in his ear all season - you don't let the team down - let the team carry you (we'll pick you up, you don't have to pick us up)

So when Zach buys into this - and does what he's asked....you can't just turn around and now say - It's all your F-ing fault.

The running game was supposed to be what carries this team...the running game was as bad as the passing game.

With that said - of course Zach should step up and say - Yes, I take responsibility - it's on me - I need to be better.  No sure why he didn't.  Not saying Zach wasn't bad he was.  Not saying Zach doesn't deserve the blame - he does.

Just saying their more nuance here than we're recognizing.

Zach's entire career so far has all been a struggle with confidence.  Confidence in his reads, confidence in his OL.  His mechanics (throwing off his back foot) reek of lack of confidence.  His head is so twisted up right now (afraid of messing up, afraid of turnovers) he's a liability on the field.  Your point is valid - this offense is built around a functioning running game that allows deception and play action to create a tempo.  Every DC in the league has a basic script vs. the Jets now - shut down the run and make Zach beat you.  

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

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I am.

Tough to watch what I saw yesterday and come away with another conclusion.  It's not that he won't be capable of playing well - but I'm really concerned that he just doesn't have the mental fortitude to hold up in key moments.

When he's loose and confident he's fine - but when something goes wrong - boy he just folds up into a cacoon...

I just don't think that's an aberration anymore.  Short memory and courage can't be learned.  

I'm super busy today at work - but finding time to be here ---- to accept what I have coming :-)

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5 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Zach's entire career so far has all been a struggle with confidence.  Confidence in his reads, confidence in his OL.  His mechanics (throwing off his back foot) reek of lack of confidence.  His head is so twisted up right now (afraid of messing up, afraid of turnovers) he's a liability on the field.  Your point is valid - this offense is built around a functioning running game that allows deception and play action to create a tempo.  Every DC in the league has a basic script vs. the Jets now - shut down the run and make Zach beat you.  

I think he lacks confidence because he’s not very good. These types of missed throws were on his tape at BYU. He’s a smooth athlete with a nice arm but he doesn’t process well and looks scared to get hit. He was never touched at BYU and could wait for receivers to get open and chuck the ball down the field. If he were a bit tougher and was more willing to tuck and run you might be able to stomach it, but yesterday was just a chicken sh*t performance in a huge game.

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4 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Zach's entire career so far has all been a struggle with confidence.  Confidence in his reads, confidence in his OL.  His mechanics (throwing off his back foot) reek of lack of confidence.  His head is so twisted up right now (afraid of messing up, afraid of turnovers) he's a liability on the field.  Your point is valid - this offense is built around a functioning running game that allows deception and play action to create a tempo.  Every DC in the league has a basic script vs. the Jets now - shut down the run and make Zach beat you.  

That’s the script for 99% of young QBs. 

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2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I think he lacks confidence because he’s not very good. These types of missed throws were on his tape at BYU. He’s a smooth athlete with a nice arm but he doesn’t process well and looks scared to get hit. He was never touched at BYU and could wait for receivers to get open and chuck the ball down the field. 

Exactly 

Any QB would lack confidence too if he were playing like this 

 

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5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I am.

Tough to watch what I saw yesterday and come away with another conclusion.  It's not that he won't be capable of playing well - but I'm really concerned that he just doesn't have the mental fortitude to hold up in key moments.

When he's loose and confident he's fine - but when something goes wrong - boy he just folds up into a cacoon...

I just don't think that's an aberration anymore.  Short memory and courage can't be learned.  

I'm super busy today at work - but finding time to be here ---- to accept what I have coming :-)

Nothing but love my friend.  We're all Jets Fans.  This disappointment is all our disappointment.  We all get it wrong on someone we like from time to time.  And optimism isn't a sin, as long as it's based on something tangible.

The question that really matters now isn't "which fans got it wrong", it's "how do we salvage a postseason birth in 2022" and "how do we solve QB for 2023 and beyond".

 

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2 hours ago, JiFields said:

The lack of awareness in this situation is alarming and I'd be offended too, G. Wilson said it wasnt good enough, Saleh called it dog sh*t and Zach was like nah, it was the wind.  He's the leader of the team and he took no accountability.  He just made Saleh's job that much harder, not sure how he smooths this over to be honest.  

 

I'm old enough to remember when he wasn't a captain at BYU and some of us saw that as a red flag and were lambasted for it.

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5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I think he lacks confidence because he’s not very good. These types of missed throws were on his tape at BYU. He’s a smooth athlete with a nice arm but he doesn’t process well and looks scared to get hit. He was never touched at BYU and could wait for receivers to get open and chuck the ball down the field. If he were a bit tougher and was more willing to tuck and run you might be able to stomach it, but yesterday was just a chicken sh*t performance in a huge game.

I didn't know much about him in college.  The thing about getting hit I'm not sure about. You could be right.  What I saw yesterday on the last failed drive was him getting pummeled on a couple of sacks because he held on to the ball and lacked the confidence/decisiveness to make the throws.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Nothing but love my friend.  We're all Jets Fans.  This disappointment is all our disappointment.  We all get it wrong on someone we like from time to time.  And optimism isn't a sin, as long as it's based on something tangible.

The question that really matters now isn't "which fans got it wrong", it's "how do we salvage a postseason birth in 2022" and "how do we solve QB for 2023 and beyond".

 

I honestly think the kid has to sit.  

I would go with Flacco - there are big time games coming up - and we know he's been in plenty of them. 

Also of importance - a strong playoff run here can be a really good recruiting tool for the best gettable QB on the open/trade market next year.

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12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I think he lacks confidence because he’s not very good. These types of missed throws were on his tape at BYU. He’s a smooth athlete with a nice arm but he doesn’t process well and looks scared to get hit. He was never touched at BYU and could wait for receivers to get open and chuck the ball down the field. If he were a bit tougher and was more willing to tuck and run you might be able to stomach it, but yesterday was just a chicken sh*t performance in a huge game.

Judon said when wilson is pressured he looks at the rush and not at his wrs.  That’s why his stats under pressure suck.  He runs around to buy time b/c he is not good at standing in the pocket and throwing under pressure.  The jets would be much better off with a game manager like Andy dalton, he’s just the type of player they would bring in to compete next year.  This team could actually win playoff games with him. 

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27 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Not sure I understand the LaFleur hate that seems to be creeping in.  Seems pretty clear he was scheming guys open and Zach just didn't execute.  I'm sure Zach's struggles had to affect his play calling too

No, the new excuse is, "they've neutered Wilson so even though those guys are open he's afraid to throw the ball". You're a damn "NFL" QB, those wide open plays are slam dunks. Think about how much better Heinecke, Cooper Rush and Daniel Jones have played this year compared to Wilson. It's pretty disturbing when you think about. 

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No doubt. It’s a Super Bowl defense, very good special teams.  
 

Nobody runs on the cheaters but losing Hall made the run game below average.
 

Feeney playing didn’t help.  Mims blows. 
 

my solution?

lafleur goes to the sidelines for the remainder of the season. He needs to be there with Zach   The 2 of them need to get it together what he’s seeing, why he’s hesitating etc.  

we could just say Zach sucks blah blah blah draft another rookie, but “the drive “ at the end of the buffalo game proves lafleur and Wilson can do this. Just wildly inconsistent 

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18 minutes ago, Larz said:

No doubt. It’s a Super Bowl defense, very good special teams.  
 

Nobody runs on the cheaters but losing Hall made the run game below average.
 

Feeney playing didn’t help.  Mims blows. 
 

my solution?

lafleur goes to the sidelines for the remainder of the season. He needs to be there with Zach   The 2 of them need to get it together what he’s seeing, why he’s hesitating etc.  

we could just say Zach sucks blah blah blah draft another rookie, but “the drive “ at the end of the buffalo game proves lafleur and Wilson can do this. Just wildly inconsistent 

The drive consists of 8 straight runs and 1 throw. It literally almost had nothing to do with Wilson. The people popping hard ons over Wilson after that game were being utterly ridiculous. You could legitimately bring any #2 QB in the league and ask them to di what they're asking Wilson to do and most of them would do it better.  

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2 minutes ago, Larz said:

No doubt. It’s a Super Bowl defense, very good special teams.  
 

Nobody runs on the cheaters but losing Hall made the run game below average.
 

Feeney playing didn’t help.  Mims blows. 
 

my solution?

lafleur goes to the sidelines for the remainder of the season. He needs to be there with Zach   The 2 of them need to get it together what he’s seeing, why he’s hesitating etc.  

we could just say Zach sucks blah blah blah draft another rookie, but “the drive “ at the end of the buffalo game proves lafleur and Wilson can do this. Just wildly inconsistent 

You mean the drive where Wilson turned and handed the ball off 12 times in a row?

That’s about the only thing he can do

Wake up

The MVP of the Bills game was Josh Allen, gifting those INTs to the Jets D

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The same Jets defense was last in the league last year and getting 45 and 54 points hung on them.  In a space of 4 weeks they gave up 45, 54, 45, and 31 points.  No one on the defense said boo.

The coaching staff has to get a handle on this fast.  I've never seen a team that was supposed to not do much this year be 6-4 and be totally failing apart.  They need to bench the qb or tell the team to shut the f up about it.

And very luckily for Brent Boyer and the specials the qb is totally the punching bag when they in fact gave up a horrible game winning kick returner with seconds left.

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6 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The locker room loves Mike White.

This was obvious last year — White is a leader.  Wilson isn’t.

Saleh has said so many times that adversity reveals true character.

 

Connor Hughes is stirring sh!t looking for clicks.  You might be right about how the team feels about White, but Hughes retweeting these old posts of typical locker room "I need to play better" cliches is all about Hughes, not the current state of the Jets...

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I’m sure that the defense isn’t happy but let’s try not to get sucked into the media black hole.

Yes the QB position needs to be re-evaluated but this is still an elite defense with a good head coach and a team with a lot of talent. The Jets will still win 10 games and hopefully that is enough for a wildcard spot.

The sky may be falling on Zach but it’s not falling on the Jets overall 

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18 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I'm old enough to remember when he wasn't a captain at BYU and some of us saw that as a red flag and were lambasted for it.

Yes, but remember he was on the "leadership" council, or some such nonsense.  Plus, he magically became a captain when the coaches decided the QB had to be a captain, and re-ran the captain elections.

Leaders take responsibility when things go badly, even if it's not their fault.  Zach did the opposite yesterday.

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23 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I'm old enough to remember when he wasn't a captain at BYU and some of us saw that as a red flag and were lambasted for it.

Not just you, brother 

Before the draft I was killed on GGN for this and what I thought were fairly obvious observations and red flags

The cult of Zach Wilson is so bizarre

When Wilson has any modicum of success (“flashes”) they immediately start flexing.  They go nuts and celebrate as if they themselves had something to do with it

They were defending his “honor” even before he was drafted, as if they’re close personal friends with him or something 

Somebody on here with an IQ lower than Wilson’s QBR made an idiotic remark about Wilson “f—king” my mother

Just disgusting 

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2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Carr just signed an extension with the Raiders.  (I don't care if he has an out clause after this year).

TB12 is the easiest plug-and-play fix if we're going for a veteran.

Not sure if it matters now or was mentioned before in this thread, but I don't think Carr has an out after this year, but the Raiders do.  I don't think his salary is guaranteed beyond 2022, so he would just have the remaining balance of his $7M bonus around $.5.5M I think.  Probably a solid trade target.

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17 minutes ago, Larz said:

No doubt. It’s a Super Bowl defense, very good special teams.  
 

Nobody runs on the cheaters but losing Hall made the run game below average.
 

Feeney playing didn’t help.  Mims blows. 
 

my solution?

lafleur goes to the sidelines for the remainder of the season. He needs to be there with Zach   The 2 of them need to get it together what he’s seeing, why he’s hesitating etc.  

we could just say Zach sucks blah blah blah draft another rookie, but “the drive “ at the end of the buffalo game proves lafleur and Wilson can do this. Just wildly inconsistent 

Where was that super bowl defense when Flacco was starting?  Through the first 3 or 4 weeks I was hearing that Ulbrich had to be fired.  Seems odd to me. 

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12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And very luckily for Brent Boyer and the specials the qb is totally the punching bag when they in fact gave up a horrible game winning kick returner with seconds left.

Our specials have been awesome this year, that last play excluded.

If we had a QB that wasn't worse than the worst starting QBs in the league, the specials wouldn't even have been in that situation. 

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Not sure if it matters now or was mentioned before in this thread, but I don't think Carr has an out after this year, but the Raiders do.  I don't think his salary is guaranteed beyond 2022, so he would just have the remaining balance of his $7M bonus around $.5.5M I think.  Probably a solid trade target.

Terrible trade target.  Bring in TB12 or Rodgers if we're trying to win a SB.

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18 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Judon said when wilson is pressured he looks at the rush and not at his wrs.  That’s why his stats under pressure suck.  He runs around to buy time b/c he is not good at standing in the pocket and throwing under pressure.  The jets would be much better off with a game manager like Andy dalton, he’s just the type of player they would bring in to compete next year.  This team could actually win playoff games with him. 

I think this has gone under the radar.  

Of all the things posted yesterday - to me, this was easily the most important.

If Zach is unwilling to keep his eyes downfield, trust his OL and stand tall in the pocket. Even if he's going to take hits...Then he's never going to be a good NFL QB.  Period.  That comes with the gig.

If he takes his eyes off the coverage for even a second - he loses everything - timing, pacing, his reads.  Which is likely why he's late on this throws and his accuracy is off so often.

I really don't care very much about locker room drama..but if true, this might be the single most important issue Zach Wilson has.

 

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Where was that super bowl defense when Flacco was starting?  Through the first 3 or 4 weeks I was hearing that Ulbrich had to be fired.  Seems odd to me. 

That's the thing, Flacco put up pretty good numbers without a good defense and without a running game. Wilson gets the opposite and struggles mightily. We're in the upside down

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27 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The locker room loves Mike White.

This was obvious last year — White is a leader.  Wilson isn’t.

Saleh has said so many times that adversity reveals true character.

 

If the defense played like this years, White can play within the offense and not air it out and play from behind. 

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8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

he takes his eyes off the coverage for even a second - he loses everything - timing, pacing, his reads.  Which is likely why he's late on this throws and his accuracy is off so often.

I really don't care very much about locker room drama..but if true, this might be the single most important issue Zach Wilson has.

You don’t need Judon or the all-22 to tell you this.

You can see it on the TV copy and the slo-mo replays.  He’s looking at where the defenders are coming from so as to keep himself from getting blown up in the pocket 

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17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Where was that super bowl defense when Flacco was starting?  Through the first 3 or 4 weeks I was hearing that Ulbrich had to be fired.  Seems odd to me. 

Is this your first year following the NFL ? 
 

what happens is the teams don’t want their good players to get hurt in the preseason, so the first few games are really like the preseason games of 5 years ago. 
 

 

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