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Unfortunately the ridiculousness of NY has crushed Zach


AlexVanDyke

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4 hours ago, Bugg said:

Eli Manning; https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm 2007 23 TDs, 20 INTs, over 3300 +yards passing, 209 yard per game, 60% completion. Also, son of an almost HoFer, brother of perhaps one of the best 2 or 3 guys to ever play NFL QB;played college in the SEC. The Giants' braintrust had a good idea this kid knew what he was doing.His dad and brother were running the biggest QB prep camp in the country.   Ints are a bit high but that was so his entire career. Also, 6'5". 

Zach Wilson: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsZa00.htm 4 TD, 5 INTs, 1200 yards in 7 games, 55% completion, 182 yards per game,  completion %  has been consistently that rate both of his seasons.Listed at 6"2", which must be in these shoesimage.png.bc1779e057112eee8516e4793139efa4.png

 

In short, by every measure, HORRIBLE. His experience, backgorund and pedigree-insert laughter here. 

In short, these 2 QBs and their seasons as cited by you, and really their entire careers have NOTHING in common but exit 16W. 

"The fan base"; who cares? If Giants fans didn't like him, they weren't burning down the stadium. Manning was Coughlin's QB. Who were they gonna play; the fat kid from Kentucky?  Sometimes we think this board matters. It doesn't. It's entertaining and fun. Nobody is making decisions based on psots here. media guys getting ideas, totally different, and that does happen. 

Derek Carr; not crazy to think that with this defense, a replacement level QB with a decent Breece Hall running game can make noise . Nicke Foles did it. 

Yeah, brah, I missed your point. Because ...there....isn't....one....? 

Holy F'ng dense you are, carry on Cinder

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35 minutes ago, WeCantDraftGoodQBs said:

Having just to play in NY market is not enough to qualify for being a reason why you can’t complete a screen pass, can’t get the ball anywhere close to wide open receivers, or why you get intercepted because you can not throw a ball out of bounds successfully.

This is all that needs to be said.

Stats tell the story to a point and while Zack’s stats are abhorrent…the context behind a lot of his incompletions are Hackenberg-Tebow bad.

I mean…he is missing layups.

You can’t start a guy like that until he figures it out….and they almost never do when they miss the easy ones that badly.

Hold out hope…but I remember half this board watching non-padded practice video clips of Hackenberg completing passes to uncovered non-route running receivers and reacting with “see he’s getting better.”

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13 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Here's what I don't understand.  This last loss was a road game so it's not like he heard a bunch of crap from the home fans.  People talk on forums like this one but I'm pretty sure the players are far too busy to read that type of stuff.

So where is the negativity that's supposedly destroying ZW coming from?

Sports radio and TV personalities?  Plenty of those people are cover the NFL on a national level.  And many of those same people were comparing Zach to guys like Mahomes, Rodgers and Marino before he even threw a pass.  Maybe it put too much pressure on him?

What is the theory here? 

I’ve asked the same thing multiple times when people use this argument. Never even get a reply.

The media has been fair to him up until this past week honestly considering how bad he’s been from day one.

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44 minutes ago, WeCantDraftGoodQBs said:

As an old timer who watched Broadway Joe back in 1968 take us to and win us our one and only Super Bowl, I just have to laugh at posts that talk about how tough it is to be a Jets QB today.

If you were a QB back in the 1960’s back when Broadway Joe got his nickname, you faced defensive players who didn’t want to just sack you . . . but literally wanted to hurt you and end your career. It was said that Dick Butkus “every time he hit you, he tried to put you in the cemetery, not the hospital.” Remember back then you were actually allowed to chop block too! Watch any interview from any 1960’s QB about having to face any of these guys and you will know what it really means to have it tough as a QB. 

Dick Butkus
Ray Nitschke
Deacon Jones
Ted Hendricks
Buck Buchanan
Carl Eller
Alan Page

Having just to play in NY market is not enough to qualify for being a reason why you can’t complete a screen pass, can’t get the ball anywhere close to wide open receivers, or why you get intercepted because you can not throw a ball out of bounds successfully.

Oakland's Ben Davidson broke Joe's jaw and he kept playing this was a guy that actually really did try to hurt Joe Namath. That AFC Championship game played in the Shea Stadium wind tunnel that Namath completed a 50 yard bomb to Don Maynard in the howling late December NYC wind is something that is beyond what someone like Wilson could even dream of doing " It was windy out there" What a punk. That Shea Stadium turf was frozen solid mud that felt like you fell on cracked ice. I was 13 when the Jets won that Super Bowl I'm 67 today and I want to see them play in at least one more before I shuffle off this mortal coil and this is the year it can be done-with Mike White behind center-not this guy

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9 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

In 2007 the NYG fan base was basically done with Eli Manning towards the end of the season. They had written him off and wanted to move on. It was his 4th season and he had a great running game, very good receivers and an elite defense. As we know they lucked into a playoff spot, got hot at the right time and now Eli Manning may be a HOF'er. 

I think its even worse with the NYJ.

In short, I don't think we can draft another young QB unless we get a HC/OC who legitimately knows what they are doing in selecting and developing a QB. We are stuck with the vet route from here on out.

I think Carr puts us in wild card hell for a few years, where we will be in it for a wild card for the next few years, but never a real threat for a home playoff game or to win a SB, but this is what the fan base wants at this point, they have been crystal clear on that.

 

I honestly don’t understand your reasoning here in regard to Carr. Other than “because I say so…” it makes no sense.
You love to give an opinion like the rest of us, but you always seem to insist on presenting them as being facts.

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33 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I honestly don’t understand your reasoning here in regard to Carr. Other than “because I say so…” it makes no sense.
You love to give an opinion like the rest of us, but you always seem to insist on presenting them as being facts.

Hes going to cost a fortune, and hes not that good

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11 hours ago, AlexVanDyke said:

Cannot stress enough how stupid the scrutiny and reaction was after the first NE game.   A second year qb, playing from behind made a couple of bad throws.  The sky. Is falling the sky is falling; let’s crucify him incessantly. Than you wonder on a super windy game with no running game why he was so cautious.  

And now the scrutiny and criticism is on a totally outwordly level. I saw his upbringing is being brought into question.  What a joke.  Sadly I think he’s done.  It’s a shame; under normal human conditions I think he could have been really good.

can’t wait to see who the next guy we eviscerate is…Go Jets! 

I was hesitating to respond given that you're being ripped (although, sometimes very gently), by others, but what the hell, may as well throw in my 2 cents as well.

Zach is not getting scrutiny for a single bad game. He's getting scrutiny for 15 bad games out of 20. You can make a case that in season 1, the oline was terrible, and there were no weapons, etc. But even Mike White and Josh Johnson were able to get SOMETHING out of the offense. What we've been seeing with Zach has been so difficult to watch. This season, other than maybe 3 quarters (Q4 in Pitts, and Q2/Q3 in Buffalo), it has been bad... That's 25 out of 28 quarters of bad QB play. What you saw after the NE game was exasperation as, for once, the Jets had a chance to beat the hated Patriots... And we came up short... Again... for the 14th time in a row... He could not even throw a ball out of bounds properly... That's how bad it had gotten. Too many mental mistakes from a position where mental mistakes lose you games very quickly. During the second NE game, Zach just completely fell appart... If you take off a great adjustment by Mims, Zach had a 40 yard game.

He missed open guys, sailing balls over there heads.

He didn't see open guys, some for easy TDs.

He hesitated way too much, losing opportunities for completions.

His footwork is terrible, which, as per Kurt Warner, is leading to taking too long and missing open guys.

Overall, with the amount of work he needs, he should not be starting. Trotting him out game after game in the blind hope that he improves is going to sink this team. He has simply not shown himself to be ready for the larger stage. He's trending right now significantly below players like Sam Darnold and Jamarcus Russel. You could make the case that he needs time, but on what are you basing that? Because he can throw a 65 yard ball during his pro day? Because he hits a great pass every 3-4 games and shows 'flashes'? Every QB at this level will have 'flashes'. They are all very talented players. But the inconsistent, one off 'flash' is not was justifies your status as a starting QB.

He's at best a project at this point, and at worst a bust. Time will tell.

In the mean time, there are 3 other QBs on the roster. They may not be better than Zach. They may not even have his talent. But that's irrelevant. What the O needs is a spark. Something that the team can rally around. Someone who will step up and say: "This is on me, let me carry the team", and not: "Yeah, I'm frustrated with the receivers" or "I'm bored with the game plan". Make the change, see how it goes, give Zach time to work out his footwork, his processing, etc. Give him a shot either later in the season if White / Flacco / pre-season legend Streveler don't work out. Or if they do, have him compete next year. If he can't claim the title next season, he's done anyways.

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11 hours ago, Trotter said:

Mac Jones was I believe 85% on that windy day

Not to excuse Wilson's play (it wasn't good), but Jones had the lowest depth of target that week (6), Wilson the 3rd highest (10). Again, Wilson did not play remotely well, but there's reasons beyond "he sucks" (which at present, is mostly true). 

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21 hours ago, T0mShane said:

This isn’t untrue, but it’s also why it was a mistake to draft a sheltered doe-eyed mush from Utah in the first place. Being the Jets QB is hard.

This draft pick is looking more and more like a Josh Rosen pick lol...

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10 hours ago, Jetworks said:

Not to excuse Wilson's play (it wasn't good), but Jones had the lowest depth of target that week (6), Wilson the 3rd highest (10). Again, Wilson did not play remotely well, but there's reasons beyond "he sucks" (which at present, is mostly true). 

Yes, there's something to be said for the defenses being played.

Jets play a bend don't break style, so they give the short sh*t.  

Pats D was attacking - making Zach beat them with bigger plays - he couldn't.

Agree, not excuse making for Zach - he was bad, no argument can be made otherwise.

But if Mac Jones was a Jet (and he lost)

Mac would be getting destroyed by Jet fans...absolutely murdered.  Taking bad sacks, refusing to push the ball downfield - etc. They put up 3 points too....

Pats fans aren't sitting there talking about how good the jets D is - they're talking about bad their O is...

Just like Jet fans aren't talking about how good the Pats D (and it is very good) they're talking about how bad Wilson is.

We keep wanting to say the Jets D was great but the Pats D wasn't.  It's kinda silly really.

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7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, there's something to be said for the defenses being played.

Jets play a bend don't break style, so they give the short sh*t.  

Pats D was attacking - making Zach beat them with bigger plays - he couldn't.

Agree, not excuse making for Zach - he was bad, no argument can be made otherwise.

But if Mac Jones was a Jet (and he lost)

Mac would be getting destroyed by Jet fans...absolutely murdered.  Taking bad sacks, refusing to push the ball downfield - etc. They put up 3 points too....

Pats fans aren't sitting there talking about how good the jets D is - they're talking about bad their O is...

Just like Jet fans aren't talking about how good the Pats D (and it is very good) they're talking about how bad Wilson is.

We keep wanting to say the Jets D was great but the Pats D wasn't.  It's kinda silly really.

All excellent points. We better be careful, otherwise this may turn into a nuanced discussion.

One point about the 'excuse' I put forth; given the strength of Wilson's arm, he should have been able to overcome much of the elements relative to the depth of attempt. The reason why he likely couldn't, is the same reason he played so poorly; his mechanics, specifically his footwork. If this improves,, I believe we see a middle of the road passer before season's end. If not, well...

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22 hours ago, AlexVanDyke said:

Cannot stress enough how stupid the scrutiny and reaction was after the first NE game.   A second year qb, playing from behind made a couple of bad throws.  The sky. Is falling the sky is falling; let’s crucify him incessantly. Than you wonder on a super windy game with no running game why he was so cautious.  

And now the scrutiny and criticism is on a totally outwordly level. I saw his upbringing is being brought into question.  What a joke.  Sadly I think he’s done.  It’s a shame; under normal human conditions I think he could have been really good.

can’t wait to see who the next guy we eviscerate is…Go Jets! 

Zach has probably been given more rope than any QB in recent memory and I say this because he has not been crucified  until now, yet his QB play has been worse than Darnold since he got here. 

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25 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Zach has probably been given more rope than any QB in recent memory and I say this because he has not been crucified  until now, yet his QB play has been worse than Darnold since he got here. 

 The've been winning with him this year.  Gave him a lot of leeway.  Tough to crucify a guy who's 5-1 as a starter..

This last week though was very tough to watch.

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16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Oh yeah just cut out the rushing stuff.  Even though the majority of QB's in the league run.  A lot.  

You can't cut data out of the equation like that.  Running for 1st downs and TDs helps your team win just as much as passing for a 1st down or TD.

You’re just a full time clown huh, the original post wasn’t even asking you who you would prefer, it was actually to Tom Shane but  I was mentioning the only difference is the rushing yards other then that they are similar quarterbacks , majority of the people still would’ve chosen Wilson over fields hence he wasn’t even the 3rd quarterback taking in that draft 

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28 minutes ago, Averagejetsfan1421 said:

You’re just a full time clown huh, the original post wasn’t even asking you who you would prefer, it was actually to Tom Shane but  I was mentioning the only difference is the rushing yards other then that they are similar quarterbacks , majority of the people still would’ve chosen Wilson over fields hence he wasn’t even the 3rd quarterback taking in that draft 

So once again consensus rules?  GMs are paid to have foresight.  Not follow the lazy river. 

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On 11/22/2022 at 9:19 AM, AlexVanDyke said:

Cannot stress enough how stupid the scrutiny and reaction was after the first NE game.   A second year qb, playing from behind made a couple of bad throws.  The sky. Is falling the sky is falling; let’s crucify him incessantly. Than you wonder on a super windy game with no running game why he was so cautious.  

And now the scrutiny and criticism is on a totally outwordly level. I saw his upbringing is being brought into question.  What a joke.  Sadly I think he’s done.  It’s a shame; under normal human conditions I think he could have been really good.

can’t wait to see who the next guy we eviscerate is…Go Jets! 

He has been consistently poor.

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On 11/22/2022 at 10:24 AM, Trotter said:

Mac Jones was I believe 85% on that windy day

Which is why completion percentage is such a poor metric.  How many times did he drop back and take a sack to move them out of FG range.  Jones was straight trash.  

He was however much better than Zach.

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On 11/22/2022 at 10:19 AM, AlexVanDyke said:

Cannot stress enough how stupid the scrutiny and reaction was after the first NE game.   A second year qb, playing from behind made a couple of bad throws.  The sky. Is falling the sky is falling; let’s crucify him incessantly. Than you wonder on a super windy game with no running game why he was so cautious.  

And now the scrutiny and criticism is on a totally outwordly level. I saw his upbringing is being brought into question.  What a joke.  Sadly I think he’s done.  It’s a shame; under normal human conditions I think he could have been really good.

can’t wait to see who the next guy we eviscerate is…Go Jets! 

These are allegedly professional athletes that play in NYC.  Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Nets 3 hockey teams all deal with the NY media.  But somehow little Zachy can't handle it and it's all the media's fault... ?  AVD:  NY Press didn't destroy Zach. Zach just flat out sucks and has sucked from day 1. And it was predicted by many before the draft.  Press just goes to feast on it but any professional atlete has to know how to shake that sh*t off.  If you are correct, then Zach is a pu$$y and doesn't belong in the NFL for that reason alone.

Sure blame Zach's incompetence on the press.  None of this is Zach's fault, amirite?  

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