Starting Zach Wilson for the remainder of the year is a "no-brainer"

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

8 minutes ago, Alka said:

How about this?  I will be proven to be correct, once again!  Zach will start, and Zach will win, and Zach will start the next game against the Vikings, and Zach will win again.  And if that happens, will you come back and apologize for saying that I have no brain?  lol

Yes!!

[Alka]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

You really need to stop now. Hebcannbeat thebBears because they are a bad football team and probably lost their QB for the season.  The rest of the uear we can lose virtually every game if he doesn't  figure out how to put more than a FG on the board. 

If Zach can win because the Bears are a bad team, then let's start Zach and evaluate how he plays after the poor play last week.  What a great opportunity to start Zach!  

[frankiepapa]

The absolute worst part of this is the remaining schedule. It's BY FAR the easiest passing schedule of any team in the NFL, coming off of a nightmare schedule for an NFL QB. 
He may look good the rest of the season but not really progress in any meaningful way and now you're in limbo again. 
Part of me thinks he'll never get it and part of me thinks his brain is so scrambled right now that maybe playing against easier defenses will settle him down a bit and he'll have a better mental foundation from which to work. 
Only for the Jets can an incredible turn around be this complicated and stressful.

I saw that we're playing some bad passing defenses as well and this should be an opportunity for a qb to flourish but sadly, we never flourish in these spots... and that drives all of us crazy...

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[y2k8]

3 minutes ago, Alka said:

As Parcells once said, "you are what your record says you are?"  Flacco is 1-2 this year, and the fans were all clamoring for  Zach to start.  And what did Zach do, he led the team to a 5-2 record.  

Led?

[Alka]

Just now, y2k8 said:

Led?

Okay, I get you.  lol   

Anyway you look at it, Zach must be given this week to bounce back from last week.  You know, the Jets could have benched Zach after the first Patriots game.   If they did that, would Flacco have beaten Buffalo?  Good question, right?  Zach bounced back, and the jets won, and I would argue that they were led by Zach in that game.  Zach needs that same opportunity to bounce back after this last Patriots game as well, I would argue.

[More Cowbell]

3 minutes ago, Alka said:

As Parcells once said, "you are what your record says you are?"  Flacco is 1-2 this year, and the fans were all clamoring for  Zach to start.  And what did Zach do, he led the team to a 5-2 record.  

If Flacco starts and loses the game, then we can all come to you and ask what we should do now?  If Zach starts, you can always pull him if he continues his poor play from last week.  I just don't see that happening.

Oh for God's sake get your head out of Zachs ass. Zach threw for about 150 yards and no TDs in most of those games. Look at game log and tell me he was the driving force of this team to those wins. One game he was but the rest, no. 

Here is another Parcellisim. There are guys that ride in the bus and there are guys that drive it. Zach rides in the bus.

[More Cowbell]

6 minutes ago, Alka said:

If Zach can win because the Bears are a bad team, then let's start Zach and evaluate how he plays after the poor play last week.  What a great opportunity to start Zach!  

What is the point if he sucks the rest of the season.  There are no gimme games like this in the playoffs. 

[Anthony Jet]

24 minutes ago, JiFields said:

 

You know, this is so true.  I even had an active thread going about how little they were running the ball.  But man, Flacco was really F'ing bad too.  Like, I feel like we dont remember just how bad he was and Hall isnt available anymore, so, idk, much rather see Mike White if they do bench Zach.

It’s Mike white this week. Not Flacco 

[Anthony Jet]

4 minutes ago, Alka said:

Okay, I get you.  lol   

Anyway you look at it, Zach must be given this week to bounce back from last week.  You know, the Jets could have benched Zach after the first Patriots game.   If they did that, would Flacco have beaten Buffalo?  Good question, right?  Zach bounced back, and the jets won, and I would argue that they were led by Zach in that game.  Zach needs that same opportunity to bounce back after this last Patriots game as well, I would argue.

Attitude is doing ZW in

[y2k8]

4 minutes ago, Alka said:

Okay, I get you.  lol   

Anyway you look at it, Zach must be given this week to bounce back from last week.  You know, the Jets could have benched Zach after the first Patriots game.   If they did that, would Flacco have beaten Buffalo?  Good question, right?  Zach bounced back, and the jets won, and I would argue that they were led by Zach in that game.  Zach needs that same opportunity to bounce back after this last Patriots game as well, I would argue.

It would be infinitely better for Zach starting on Sunday if it were a road game. 

[derp]

Important to consider the defense was not playing at this level in the games Flacco started.

If Wilson’s as close to losing the locker room as it seems, I genuinely don’t think you can start him. If he’s not then it’s fine.

The other consideration IMO is what’s next after this? They’ve invested a lot in young receivers who aren’t developing right now - that’s a problem. If a vet comes available and Garrett Wilson, Moore, and/or Mims are doing nothing with Wilson under center it’s a big question, if they start cooking with White it’s a better situation.

To me again if he’s close to losing the locker room or he’s lost it, start White. Blame it on the immaturity postgame, call it a teaching moment, say it’s a one game thing and it’ll be reevaluated. Then after the Bears game, re-evaluate. Do they move the ball, how do the receivers look, how does the team respond, etc. This season is about more than one player. If it’s a bad game and turns out the problem is not Wilson, then go back. If it goes well, prioritize the rest of the roster over the guy who’s not performing and has some growing up to do.

[choon328]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

Starting Zach for the remainder of the year has nothing to do with Zach's abilities, it has to do with the fact that Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh didn't do anything in the offseason to give the Jets a viable option at QB.  

Flacco is a stationary QB who didn't impress in the 2 losses he started in, and Mike White is not the answer either.  Joe could have traded for Minshew, or another veteran QB who could have challenged Zach.  But they sat on their hands, and now, I don't believe that either backup can move the needle more than Zach can at this point.  

Starting Zach for the remainder of the season accomplishes several goals: 1. He has gone 5-2 as the starter, opposed to 1-2 with Flacco, and gives the Jets the best chance of making the playoffs.  You may not like it, but it is what it is.  2. As the 2nd pick in the draft, the Jets need to see if and how Zach bounces back, how he finishes the season, how he will continue to deal with adversity, and if he deserves the starting job in 2023, or do the Jets need to trade for, or draft another QB in the offseason.  

My only reservation with my argument is if Zach has alienated a large portion of the team, it might be counterintuitive to the team's positive energy and the wide receivers who must fight to get open and work with Zach.  But, that accomplishes another goal as well.  Can Moore put forth energy on the field to get open?  Or is he a lost cause?  Did he get open during the Patriots game, and Zach just didn't see him, other than the 2 back to back catches for 8 and 4 yards respectively?

It might be painful, or it might be illuminating on the positive side, but either way, the Jets must continue to start Zach Wilson.  Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh has noone to blame but themselves! 

Wrong

[Ron Rico]

Please stop looking at the Bears like they are a bad team. That should not be a factor in the decision that has to be made to bench or not to bench Number 2.

[derp]

7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Oh for God's sake get your head out of Zachs ass. Zach threw for about 150 yards and no TDs in most of those games. Look at game log and tell me he was the driving force of this team to those wins. One game he was but the rest, no. 

Here is another Parcellisim. There are guys that ride in the bus and there are guys that drive it. Zach rides in the bus.

Bold is a great point IMO. I don’t think we’ve seen a lot that tells us otherwise. And the bar for being worth the second QB contract is a guy who drives the bus.

We’ve seen guys like Goff and Wentz who are actually bus riders look like bus drivers on teams built around them while on rookie deals. Wilson hasn’t even given a hint he might be a guy that drives the bus.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

44 minutes ago, Alka said:

If Saleh starts him this week and the Jets win, then Zach will continue to roll.  If Zach starts against the Bears, and plays a good game, and the Jets lose, Zach will continue to roll.  If Zach starts and sucks once again, then yes, I agree that he would get the bench.  

My argument is that Zach will not suck against the Bears, and they will need him to win, and continue the playoff push.  

On the other hand, if Zach is benched and Mike White throws 3 interceptions, and the Jets lose 17-10, then everything falls apart, and then where do you go from there?  

No, common sense tells me that Zach will and should start this Sunday.  If the Jets win, (and they will win), then Zach will continue to start.  If White starts and the Jets lose, then that's when the real sh*t hits the fan!!!

What happens if mike white starts and doesn’t throw 3 interceptions? what happens if mike white starts and he wins? What happens if he throws for more than 150 yards and actually looks competent? 

If mike white does come in and sh*t the bed we still have Flacco. He’s not great but you no what your getting with him. With Zach we also know what we’re getting from him, and it’s not good.

[VJphillyfan]

By “no brainer” you mean one would literally need to not have a brain to keep starting him?

[Irish Jet]

Nonsense.

It doesn't matter if Flacco and White suck -  No one is arguing these guys are the answer but there has to be some kind of accountability for awful play. The other players are playing at a playoff level - They deserve better than what they're getting from the QB and if Zach isn't doing it then we should give other guys a shot. Even if Flacco or White bomb I don't think it's the wrong move.

We've had 20 games from Zach and seen what he is - The idea that 7 more games would somehow be invaluable to the evaluation process is just laughable. This is a good team that has a legit shot at making the playoff - You can't look the players in the eye and suggest that Zach Wilson gives them the best chance to win when the offence has been night and day better when Zach hasn't played since he was drafted. 

Playing Zach the rest of the way would be cowardly, and show that you're putting him over the team. 

[JetsMetsRangers]

1 hour ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I disagree. You’re gonna lose the locker room if you don’t bench him. His teammates see that he’s not any good. A change likely gives the offense a little spark. Even if the options behind him aren’t any good you’re holding him accountable for his poor play. I think he probably starts this week but saleh put him on notice.  if he plays like sh*t again he should get the hook.

Agree, the problem is if he has lost the locker room and you continue to play him if he still plays as poorly you give up on promising season that might have led to the playoffs.......You can't sacrifice the other 50 or so guys who are playing their ass off.......Making the playoffs would be a giant step for the team and important experience in the post season........

[BallinPB]

32 minutes ago, Alka said:

I realize that I'm not QB evaluator, but the Jets need a win on Sunday, and Zach gives us the best chance. 

I would prefer a better QB starting this Sunday, but the Jets don't have a better QB than Zach right now, and like I said in my initial thread, that's on Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh. 

Wrong.  Both Flacco and White are better than Zach and that's a fact.  Must I continue to remind people once again that Zach is last in the league in virtually every passing metric.  

[kevinc855]

I will enjoy watching these guys go down with the titanic as they did till darnolds last game 

Can’t understand the ignorance but respect the loyalty 

[T0mShane]

38 minutes ago, Alka said:

I actually agree with you Tom.  As far that Zach at 5-2 and Flacco at 1-2, I could have done better with the logic.

But, wins and losses are the bottom line right now.  If Flacco starts and the Jets lose, then what?  Do you go back to Zach?  Do you start Mike White?  Then, at 6-5, and losing a very winnable game against the Bears, what happens next?

If you really want to use good logic, then logic tells me that Zach must start the game.  If Zach shows no signs of improvement from last week, then you can always and more easily insert Flacco into the game at that point to try to win it.  If you start Flacco and things go south, then the Jets really don't have anywhere to turn.  From my perspective, I see Zach having a comeback game, and the Jets going to 7-4.  We will see!

Think of how low the bar is at Jets QB1. Zach Wilson was giving his team 100 yards passing for .05 TDs per game on 56% passing with ~10 yards rushing mixed in, which is what you’d expect from a Luke Falk-level emergency backup. If you can better that by playing anyone else at QB, you’re improving the Jets chances of winning. Statistically, the Jets compare to the Washington Commanders in terms of offensive and defensive EPA—keeping Zach in there is like the Commies going back to Carson Wentz. Wentz is the more talented QB, but he also sucks and is loathed by his teammates. Heinecke comes in, is a mess statistically, but his scrappiness is infectious and makes the team play better. Zach is Carson Wentz, but worse. 

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

You forgot no one could have imagined how bad Zach would be in yr 2. That was one of worst performances by a qb in history of nfl. So normally I’d agree with you , not much better on the bench, but they both are considerably better on most days than Zach average game. I agree if team wasn’t in playoff hunt, play the kid. But a good team with a good chance to break 12 yr playoff drought should not be held hostage for Zach Wilson’s evaluations. Maybe the kid will learn by watching more, he sure isn’t learning by playing.   

 

I think this is what makes it so difficult ... it was one of the worst performances by a QB AND OC in the history of the NFL.  So incredibly poor you have to wonder if a single player would be capable of sh*tting the bed so abundantly on his own. To me it stinks of piss poor coaching. Oh yeah .. why is no one calling for Michael Carter or Robison to ride the pine ?? Why ?? ... because they are smarter than that.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Dunnie

[Jet Blast]

The following is cut pasted from my post in Max's 14 second thread...

I WAS for giving him the season (and maybe longer) to prove himself, but that was before his poor attitiude came to light.

He has shown little if any improvement since last season and still has a long way to go before he is even a competent QB. Yet, by virtue of his recent comments, he seems to believe he has no issues. If he doesn't realize he has  problems, then how can he possibly correct them???

I would continue through the season with him, but keep him on a short leash. If he is having a bad game, sit him for a while. Unless he he shows UNMISTAKABLE signs of improvement between now and January, we need to move on.

[PepPep]

43 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Keep mentioning the record, the jets would be better than 5-2 with anyone else, white or Flacco imo. We definitely take at least 1, likely both of those Pat games. Imagine being 8-2 now. It is that possible to imagine. We are 6-4 with by far worst qb in nfl because the D is that good, and D has carried the team.
 

Wilson did have a good game mgr game against buf and didn’t make many mistakes. But that seems to be his ceiling. And the D owned  Allen and bills O in that game.
 

Zach still can’t read D’s and now coaches are going to see what bb did to him. Disguise some coverages and he can’t pick up. He can learn that on the bench, and in practice.. 

I think the record is important. People keep saying don't look at the 5-2 record, they were winning DESPITE him. Ok. But they were winning. And he was the starter. He must have been doing something right. He made some clutch throws late to win the Pitt game. He had no INTs against Mia, GB and Den, allowing the run game and defense to take over. And then he had a great 'game manager type' high pressure game against Buffalo where he was efficient, showed good decision making, and made some critical completions to help put the team in a position to win. He hasn't been a good QB but you have to give him a tiny bit of credit for those wins.

You can't argue that we would have been 8-2 with Flacco or White at helm. You just can't possible know that. White is a turnover machine and Flacco, for all his veteran wisdom, has thrown some dumbfounding INTs himself. Both guys are statues back there. I have zero confidence in either one of them. Yes, we would have probably won the two games where Zach played worst (Pats games). Hindsight is 20/20 and even then I would not be certain by any stretch of the imagination. But what about the other games? Would Flacco and/or White be able to consistently play turnover free football get the wins that Zach got? Maybe, but I just don't see how you can possible assume that.     

42 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think this is flawed logic. He’s statistically the worst QB in football, not just from a productivity standpoint, but also from an efficiency standpoint. Apparently, he’s also not providing anything from a leadership standpoint. If the plan is to hope he improves, you can let him do that in practice the rest of the year and let him try to get his job back over the summer. As for the games, let someone play who’s going to help Garrett Wilson and Elijah Moore and Denzel Mims get better, because Zach is actively ruining those guys. 

While I must agree that if you look at it this way it makes a ton of sense. But this is not how coaches look at it. At least I don't think so. They aren't looking at where their QB is ranked statistically, they are looking at it like- can we win games with this guy, is he better than the guy behind him. Again, I'm not a coach but I think for a long time- and probably up until this putrid performance against NE, the coaches were pretty convinced they can win with Zach and he is the better option to Flacco or White... and his 5-2 record mattered in their reasoning. 

And this is why Zach will start against the Bears. And if the Jets DO beat the Bears with Zach playing well he will probably end up finishing out the season.   

2023 will be a different story. All options are on the table. 

[doitny]

42 minutes ago, Alka said:

If Saleh starts him this week and the Jets win, then Zach will continue to roll.  If Zach starts against the Bears, and plays a good game, and the Jets lose, Zach will continue to roll.  If Zach starts and sucks once again, then yes, I agree that he would get the bench.  

My argument is that Zach will not suck against the Bears, and they will need him to win, and continue the playoff push.  

On the other hand, if Zach is benched and Mike White throws 3 interceptions, and the Jets lose 17-10, then everything falls apart, and then where do you go from there?  

No, common sense tells me that Zach will and should start this Sunday.  If the Jets win, (and they will win), then Zach will continue to start.  If White starts and the Jets lose, then that's when the real sh*t hits the fan!!!

as far as Flacco goes i will just tag @Integrity28 cause his post was the same point i would have made about Flacco. much different team than we our now. much better.

how do we know White sucks? because of last year? well Zach sucked last year and this year. again much better team than last year.

if White starts and sucks then you can start him again or go back to Zach which i wouldnt. you got to show the other 52 players that Zachs play is unacceptable. you got to show them your trying to put the best team on the field right now.

if Zach is losing the locker room its his play more than those coments. it wasnt just the WRs throwing there hands up in discuss i saw Brown do it to. this doesnt happen over night. this is frustration building up for a while now. 

we can say whatever we want but those players know who the best QB on the team is. they see it in practice everyday.  and they are revolting on Zach. would they do that if the other QBs were worst than Zach.? i dont think so.

i just heard Keyshawn say that he knows a coach on our team who told him that Mike White is better than Zach and they all know it but cant play him cause Zach was the #2 pick. he runs ML offense better.

[Dunnie]

39 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

It’s Mike white this week. Not Flacco 

Steveler .. not Mike White.

[Hex]

The last time Zach Wilson's starting job was in question he put together the best QB season in his team's history. I'm not saying that's going to happen again by questioning his starting role but to me it's really his only option left to play lights out. Hopefully this hit the right way and he makes a change, because the way he's been playing won't fly, especially if he continues it against crappy defenses.

[doitny]

6 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Would Flacco and/or White be able to consistently play turnover free football get the wins that Zach got?

yeah but this is a overrated stat. some of the best QBs in the league are in the bottom 10 in the league in INTs.

its ok to throw a few INTs if you are making plays and scoring. 

for all the stuff people say about Flacco he threw it over 50 times in 3 games and still has a lower INT% than Zach who plays cautiously. 

[PepPep]

7 minutes ago, Jet Blast said:

I WAS for giving him the season (and maybe longer) to prove himself, but that was before his poor attitiude came to light.

I think EVERYONE is making too much of his comments. 

While what he actually said was wrong. While it was a mistake to say 'no' in the interview. Did anyone actually watch the interview? The way the question was asked and answered? How it was the last question after getting grilled by reporters and Zach seemed to barely process it so he could gtfo of there.

I mean, clearly the wrong thing to say and a missed opportunity to take responsibility for a loss. But people seem to be turning this into a massive character, leadership and personality flaw. Its pretty absurd how much it has gotten blown up. I mean it makes sense that the NY media has latched on to it, but for Jet fans to fall hook, line and sinker is pretty silly. 

This is a guy who is a team captain and has consistently been lauded for his leadership, hard work and character by both coaches and teammates. Saleh during his presser where he said 'all options are on the table' made a point to say that Zach is a good leader. I mean. This notion that he has a bad attitude and is a bad leader has been blown up by the media and taken a life of its own. I honestly don't buy any of it. 

Teammates are obviously frustrated because of his poor play. But he is far from fracturing this locker room. He is 5-2 and yes, that matters. The game prior to this NE debacle they beat one of the best teams in football and Zach played well. So I don't buy that suddenly this locker room is going to turn on him. 

[maury77]

The only argument that I can support for continuing to trot Wilson out there is so that by the end of the season the club will have enough of a sample size to definitively move on from Cobra Kai. The guy is garbage.

[Flashlite80]

This team is built around solid young talent.  Before they make any decision to move on, they need to see how Zach responds to his last outing.  Assuming he has a good week in practice, I'd start him.  If he doesn't move the team, I wouldn't hesitate to bring in Mike White.  I would handle every game from here out that way.

What is most puzzling is the footwork problem.  How dense must a guy be to not turn towards his target?  The throw across his body, usually sidearm, is responsible for the missed easy ones and a number of tipped passes at the line.  Missing reads, etc. is part of the maturation process of a young quarterback.  Constantly aiming in one direction and throwing across your body is just wrong.  The fact that he is still doing that, constantly, is very troubling.  If he resists the basic first step to his growth, he may never get better.

Finally, there has been a lot of talk clearing LaFleur.  I looked at the Warner breakdowns.  Zach played horrible but there were far too many plays with Jet receivers too close together, eliminating two options.  His game-plan was better than I initially thought, but there were far too many plays that gave Zach no chance.  The fact is every quarterback gets a dozen clean, open looks a game.  Mac Jones didn't make any great passes.  They were mostly wide open 3-5 yards downfield to wide open options. 

Aside from spacing, the 5 step drop in the shotgun messed up the timing on several potential options.  Shouldn't the coordinator be responsible if the setup is too late for the option provided?  If secondary options open up too early for the quarterback to make a first read and comeback to the other side isn't that the play call?.  Warner showed several examples of these problems.  

[undertow]

The problem is it was possible to hide Wilson in the past with a great defense and Hall running for 150 yards a game but now with a banged up line and a handfull of jags at RB 150 yards and 0 INTs isn't going to cut it and it's impossible to hide him.  We have reached a point in his career and the season where if he can't be a part of the reason we are winning games he should be on the bench regardless of how far he threw the ball at pro day. 

[Anthony Jet]

25 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Steveler .. not Mike White.

It’s Mike white. 

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, Anthony Jet said:

It’s Mike white. 

has this been announced ?

[Anthony Jet]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

has this been announced ?

Patience