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MIKE WHITE


T0mShane
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51 minutes ago, Jolot said:

There’s a lot to like about White . He is clearly the best QB on this roster, and the team loves him .  I am getting get some “ Linsanity “ vibes though , with the Bills playing the role of the Miami Heat….man I would love to be wrong . This week is going to be show us all a lot . 

I think I've said this sentence prior to almost every game this year (maybe other than the JiFlacco games).

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I suppose I'll add my 2 cents in. If White keeps playing this way, I can't see Zach playing unless the Jets no longer have a chance at making the playoffs.

If White keeps playing this way, I'd like to see him, Zach and a day 2 QB duke it out to be the 2023 starter. I'm not crazy about the team spending the $ required for Carr or Jimmy G. 

One FA that is interesting is Tyler Huntley. Joe Douglas still has some connections to the Ravens organization and Huntley came in yesterday and looked pretty good when Lamar went down. Huntley was also good last season off the bench.

 

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14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Really, all he’s missing it some arm strength. 

Interesting. Watching him play, his arm strength seems plenty strong to me. He was gunning the ball into some tight windows. I don’t even know how he got some of those through. He had some crazy throws. He doesn’t have a lose arm like Zach but I think it’s solid.

How many games will it take for you to be comfortable that Mike White got a fair shake? Meaning, how many games will it be fair to assess Mike White? Is 10 enough?

 

I was a Zach believer since the fall of his senior year. Very early. I thought he was QB 1 in the draft. I told myself I’ll give him 25 games. But, after 20 games, I was like f this. I think he can still be good but it’s going to take time (ie 1 or 2 more seasons). And by good, I mean a component starter. I no longer think he can be a top 10 QB. 

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14 hours ago, football guy said:

Winning while developing talent is the ultimate option.

I’m sorry, but no one inside the Jets organization believes Mike White is their long-term QB. You’re playing him now because how Zach handled the press conference. The coaches won’t say it but that’s the reality… no players were talking to Zach on Monday or Tuesday after the game; they were pissed, Zach beat himself up over it, and Saleh decided this was the best way forward for the time being. He’s not afraid of the team revolting when he decides to put Zach back in; he expects them to be pros and thinks Zach has learned his lesson. 

I don’t know why fans won’t give up on it but it’s the truth. Whether MW were 17, 27, or 37 isn’t the point… his ceiling is capped. Maybe not statistically speaking because the scheme can always evolve, but ability speaking. 

Even if all you say is true that doesn’t mean White can’t change their minds or perhaps even already has changed their minds with his consistent play, at least for rest of season. 

If you go to Zach it’s purely due to his draft cost. But this is falling into that sunken cost fallacy. Besides, his faults that he had all season aren’t fixed in 2-4 weeks of practice - this guy needs time.  
 

If you look at Niners and Garrapolo vs Trey Lance - it’s very similar 
 

 

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1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

Watching him play, his arm strength seems plenty strong to me. He was gunning the ball into some tight windows. I don’t even know how he got some of those through. He had some crazy throws.

His arm strength is adequate.  Ideally, you'd like a bit more velocity for some of those hard line drive throws, but there might be on average maybe 1 or 2 throws per game where this really becomes a factor.

You can compensate for this with elite anticipation and other QB stuff like manipulating defenders with your eyes.

Also, I think arm strength can be developed to some degree.  Brady didn't have the strongest arm coming out of Michigan but he somehow got stronger every year.

If noodle-armed Chad Pennington (and Chad is still one of my favorite players) was good enough to get the job done, Mike White should be fine.

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17 hours ago, football guy said:

Wilson is going to play again and it may be sooner than fans expect. Don’t shoot the messenger

This is exactly why this team will never amount to anything. If that happens they will lose the locker room, the fan base would lose it and wouldn’t  be surprised if some of the coaching staff quits being forced to play an inferior player. Wilson was a Woody Johnson pick that’s the only reason he is on this team.

If this happens we will be at the bottom of the division and everything that the CS preaches will go right out the window. This has Woody’s fingerprints all over it. For all of us old timers say goodbye to ever seeing a Super Bowl in our lifetime.  I swear at times I think the only reason the Jets exist as a football team is to be the dysfunctional organization that does everything wrong. 

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Interesting. Watching him play, his arm strength seems plenty strong to me. He was gunning the ball into some tight windows. I don’t even know how he got some of those through. He had some crazy throws. He doesn’t have a lose arm like Zach but I think it’s solid.
How many games will it take for you to be comfortable that Mike White got a fair shake? Meaning, how many games will it be fair to assess Mike White? Is 10 enough?
 
I was a Zach believer since the fall of his senior year. Very early. I thought he was QB 1 in the draft. I told myself I’ll give him 25 games. But, after 20 games, I was like f this. I think he can still be good but it’s going to take time (ie 1 or 2 more seasons). And by good, I mean a component starter. I no longer think he can be a top 10 QB. 
His arm looked strong enough to me. Just not a canon.

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26 minutes ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Even if all you say is true that doesn’t mean White can’t change their minds or perhaps even already has changed their minds with his consistent play, at least for rest of season. 

If you go to Zach it’s purely due to his draft cost. But this is falling into that sunken cost fallacy. Besides, his faults that he had all season aren’t fixed in 2-4 weeks of practice - this guy needs time.  
 

If you look at Niners and Garrapolo vs Trey Lance - it’s very similar 
 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I think people would tell you that time is limited in the NFL, and the coaches are under pressure to win while developing talent. It's a fine line. They botched it in the first place as we've seen, and now I think they're trying to make up for it by allowing him to take a step back and focus on his fundamentals which is also kind of a shoddy way at letting a player develop at his own pace. They gotta know he's not going to correct all his footwork issues over a 4 week span (at least I hope)... A lot of this is muscle memory and takes months and months of repetitions. 

If and when they go back to him, it will be because Mike White didn't do enough to win us football games - fair or not. It will allow them to continue their Zach Wilson evaluation while remaining competitive. They will spin it as "Zach is 5-2 as our starter this year and his only losses were against Bill Belichick", but we're not stupid... going back to him would be because you want to see how he responds to the adversity in live-action, while knowing that if he gets back to where he was to close out last year and earlier this year you will win football games with him. Not necessarily because you think he's going to run it as efficiently as Mike White does at this point of their respective careers. Is he still being lazy with his base (i.e. throwing off his back foot or not planting his feet in the ground when making the easy throws), is he going to be more decisive and take what the defense gives him, will he play within the offense more quickly and consistently? This is what they will want to understand. 

No one seems to question his raw talent, his IQ, or his work habits. The question is does he have the right mindset, confidence, and temperament to be a professional QB in the NFL. Only way you will know is by seeing how he responds, and waiting until next year is not in the organization's best interests whether we like it or not. Only way to keep him off the field is if its not going well behind closed doors (I've heard it is) and Mike White keeps winning. Biggest test for MW is this week; if he beats Buffalo, I think he should coast through the rest of the season. 

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19 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Mike White was good yesterday. The way he leads players on his check downs and screens is immaculate. He also showed poise under pressure, the ability to throw down field, and understand defenses. I'm a Mike white believer. 

Crazy. But I almost feel better about Mike White after yesterday than I did after the Bears game. I can’t wait hear what QB School thinks. I’m also hoping Warner covers this game.

PFF Sam with somewhat of a head scratcher to me. “Mike White played an ok game. He did what he does, he took what the defense gave him”.

- Yes, he took what defense gave him and his swing passes are great. But let’s acknowledge that he was also slinging it down field into crazy tight windows. Those were far from layups.

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That hit he took, absolutely got crushed, then gets up in 45 seconds (they did not take a TO to give him a blow, which was the smart move to save them which they did need again) and delivers a 1st down strike to Corey to keep it going, that was some serious street cred and you can't teach guts.

 

He's earned the rest of the season no matter what.

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15 hours ago, football guy said:

It’s the harsh reality of the NFL. There’s no mandates this year. I don’t think there will be any “mandates” moving forward, but if Douglas and Saleh can’t find a way to produce a franchise QB and miss the playoffs  next year they know they will likely be fired. I don’t have access to ownership or anything like that and it’s not something people who work for the Jets will openly discuss but they know that’s possible. But if they are showing improvement and the QB is improving, they’re sticking the course even if there is no playoffs (see CIN as a good example).

For Mike White, he won’t be that expensive. Probably a 2-year, $18 million deal with an additional $6 million available in incentives. 

If Joe D gets fired after getting the team turned around to this degree, that would be a horrible move.

The team's talent is better at probably every single position than it was when he took over, and there are no massively overpaid contracts.  The only major issue I had this year is re doing CJ's contract, making him very hard to cut next year. 

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3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

If Joe D gets fired after getting the team turned around to this degree, that would be a horrible move.

The team's talent is better at probably every single position than it was when he took over, and there are no massively overpaid contracts.  The only major issue I had this year is re doing CJ's contract, making him very hard to cut next year. 

It would be lunacy to fire JD, even if he flubbed the QB thing with both ZW and MW.  He has done a terrific job elsewhere.  This team is loaded with talent.  Let him continue to add to it next year.

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16 minutes ago, chirorob said:

If Joe D gets fired after getting the team turned around to this degree, that would be a horrible move.

The team's talent is better at probably every single position than it was when he took over, and there are no massively overpaid contracts.  The only major issue I had this year is re doing CJ's contract, making him very hard to cut next year. 

I think Douglas has shown enough improvement to earn himself at least the length of his contract. He’s had his share of misses, but this past class he seemed to knock it out of the park. 

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2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

His arm strength is adequate.  Ideally, you'd like a bit more velocity for some of those hard line drive throws, but there might be on average maybe 1 or 2 throws per game where this really becomes a factor.

You can compensate for this with elite anticipation and other QB stuff like manipulating defenders with your eyes.

Also, I think arm strength can be developed to some degree.  Brady didn't have the strongest arm coming out of Michigan but he somehow got stronger every year.

If noodle-armed Chad Pennington (and Chad is still one of my favorite players) was good enough to get the job done, Mike White should be fine.

I feel like if White wanted to take HGH to alter his on-field abilities, he'd have done it already. 

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A victory in a hostile environment in Buffalo changes everything 

Puts a division title squarely in play and shuts up the MW haters (or at least most of them) for one week

Kirk Cousins is getting 30M per fully guaranteed 

He looked like azz pretty much all day yesterday except for the heads up scramble and JJ TD

I mean what exactly does Cousins bring to the table that MW can’t do?

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14 hours ago, Maxman said:

Mike White gets the rest of the year. The only way Zach gets another start is if White gets hurt.

My thoughts are:
 

  • White's arm is strong enough to play in this league
  • He was slightly off today accuracy wise, but he has amazing ball placement (hey now). He hits those screen passes better than we have seen here, perfectly in stride
  • His pocket presence is good. Steps up, side steps. Good in the pocket
  • He can stretch the field a bit so I don't have worries there. And we are seeing that he is getting passes in tight windows down the field

My only concern is how damn slow he seems. Not sure if that will come back to bite him. But I want his offseason to be like a Rocky movie so he comes back next year and can take the easy 5 yards when it is in front of him.

Prediction: He leads the Jets to a playoff berth and they win their first game.

He comes back next year with a new contract as the starting QB.

I agree White gets the rest of the season.  If nothing else, Mike White can complete the installation of the playbook.  When Zack was in there, we never ran enough plays to do it.  Nothing like game speed in pads.  The CBA means no padded practices in season.  We will get better and better with Mike White moving the chains.

As for Mike White's arm, I agree with TomShane that he lacks a bit on his fastball at times.  However, he uncorked a beautiful deep out to the left side which he completed to Garrett Wilson (to my amazement - it was a heck of a throw).  The deep out is the NFL throw.  This is actual evidence that he does have an NFL arm.  It is the last word too.  He does.

I too noticed that his throws were a bit behind the receivers at times.  I also noticed that defenders were closing in on both sides of a closing window.  How he squeezed that ball into those windows was very impressive.  Especially when you consider we were playing from behind against a pass defense that was laying back.  As for Mike White's screen game, it is a clear strength.   Each ball comes out on rhythm with his teammates.  You can see the polish borne of hard work and attention to detail.

Pocket presence?  His NFL comparisons are Chad and Tom Brady.  Did those guys try to run away?  No chicken dance for White.  Mike is dealing cards are the casino.  Swift and sure.  He knows he has to get rid of it.  He knows he cannot run.  It is why our offense line pass protection looks better lately.  The ball comes out in a jiffy and hits Jets players.

I too think we will make the playoffs and will be a tough out the rest of the way.  I also think the Jets know that this program has vaulted ahead of schedule and there is no time to train Zack. 

Time is limited in the NFL.  The future is now for Garrett Wilson, Elijah Moore and Denzel Mims.  We are contenders right now.

I predict the Jets roll with Mike White in the off-season.  We will trade Zack Wilson and sign a veteran with the money we save.  We will draft a mid-round guy to compete with the Strev.  We will start over at the QB position in 2024 with a 1st round pick if Mike White is not the answer.  And that is how I see it. 

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2 hours ago, football guy said:

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I think people would tell you that time is limited in the NFL, and the coaches are under pressure to win while developing talent. It's a fine line. They botched it in the first place as we've seen, and now I think they're trying to make up for it by allowing him to take a step back and focus on his fundamentals which is also kind of a shoddy way at letting a player develop at his own pace. They gotta know he's not going to correct all his footwork issues over a 4 week span (at least I hope)... A lot of this is muscle memory and takes months and months of repetitions. 

If and when they go back to him, it will be because Mike White didn't do enough to win us football games - fair or not. It will allow them to continue their Zach Wilson evaluation while remaining competitive. They will spin it as "Zach is 5-2 as our starter this year and his only losses were against Bill Belichick", but we're not stupid... going back to him would be because you want to see how he responds to the adversity in live-action, while knowing that if he gets back to where he was to close out last year and earlier this year you will win football games with him. Not necessarily because you think he's going to run it as efficiently as Mike White does at this point of their respective careers. Is he still being lazy with his base (i.e. throwing off his back foot or not planting his feet in the ground when making the easy throws), is he going to be more decisive and take what the defense gives him, will he play within the offense more quickly and consistently? This is what they will want to understand. 

No one seems to question his raw talent, his IQ, or his work habits. The question is does he have the right mindset, confidence, and temperament to be a professional QB in the NFL. Only way you will know is by seeing how he responds, and waiting until next year is not in the organization's best interests whether we like it or not. Only way to keep him off the field is if its not going well behind closed doors (I've heard it is) and Mike White keeps winning. Biggest test for MW is this week; if he beats Buffalo, I think he should coast through the rest of the season. 

So after all the comments by the players including our #1 WR, and the stupid shirts when we haven’t won sh*t yet, they are not concerned about losing the locker room? It’s painfully obvious Wilson doesn’t fit in. They brought in Cj for Wilson and kept his therapy dog in Berrios. It should be a hard reset starting in training camp next year.
This year loses the team and possibly worse. Would not be surprised if JD, Saleh or MLF quit if they bring him back this year and force Wilson on the staff which that seems to be the case. How many times have we heard that Woody is letting JD and the CS make their own decisions, if they put Wilson back in we and everyone will know it’s a lie. There is no way you can convince me that Saleh, MLF, and JD don’t see or hear what’s happening in the locker room. Would be right back to the SOJ. 

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7 hours ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

We would be the laughingstock of the NFL if we did that. We are just climbing out of that whole, why kick us right back down. If that happens fan base will revolt. Should pass that on to the FO. Would counter everything they have said about changing culture, would also make the JetBlue conspiracy seem probable. SOJ

i really like what Saleh and JD have done this year. that said this would be stupid beyond stupid. this is not the time to play games and see if the worst QB in football has gotten better. even a loss and bad game by White they should not do this. 

i have defended them both from people who wanted them fired even this year but they deserve to go if they do this and it cost us the playoffs.

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1 minute ago, doitny said:

i really like what Saleh and JD have done this year. that said this would be stupid beyond stupid. this is not the time to play games and see if the worst QB in football has gotten better. even a loss and bad game by White they should not do this. 

i have defended them both from people who wanted them fired even this year but they deserve to go if they do this and it cost us the playoffs.

I agree, like I said hearing what @football guy said it’s seems that that’s their plan, not the CS, it would be Woody, so everything they have put in place to change the culture would go right down the drain along with staff and players. 

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3 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

I agree, like I said hearing what @football guy said it’s seems that that’s their plan, not the CS, it would be Woody, so everything they have put in place to change the culture would go right down the drain along with staff and players. 

i dont think its Woody. he just wants to win like us. i think its the football guys like. JD, Saleh and others that look at those things and ignore stats. they think there smarter than everybody else cause they have been in football forever. and they might be right. i think Woody is like us, just a fan who watches games and reads box scores and Zach fails both of those tests. but the " football guys" and no not you @football guy lol , i know your just the messenger, think that we dont know what were looking at. 

i think Saleh gets fired at the end of the year if they bring back Zach and he costs us the playoffs. 

 

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2 hours ago, chirorob said:

If Joe D gets fired after getting the team turned around to this degree, that would be a horrible move.

The team's talent is better at probably every single position than it was when he took over, and there are no massively overpaid contracts.  The only major issue I had this year is re doing CJ's contract, making him very hard to cut next year. 

It would be one of the darkest days in franchise history if he and Saleh aren't retained long-term. That's what I'm most afraid of because these guys really get it 

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