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Starting Mike White: why it was easier than you think?


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26 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

There is only upside.  Wilson was as bad as I’ve seen in many many years watching football.

But with our luck Mike White  will shlt the bed and we will be at ground zero.  I have nightmares of this.

Im hoping MW plays decent, no turnovers and we can beat anyone.   Our D is that good.   

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4 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

But with our luck Mike White  will shlt the bed and we will be at ground zero.  I have nightmares of this.

Im hoping MW plays decent, no turnovers and we can beat anyone.   Our D is that good.   

If he craps the bed against Chicago, he should never play in the NFL again. 
We have as close to a fully functional team as we ever had. We just need White to be solid, not perfect. We will win. Can you picture a game where we have multiple extended drives??? Should be a breath of fresh air.

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11 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

But with our luck Mike White  will shlt the bed and we will be at ground zero.  I have nightmares of this.

Im hoping MW plays decent, no turnovers and we can beat anyone.   Our D is that good.   

I’m not suggesting there isn’t risk ;).  I’m just stating it was a decision that was best for all involved, including Zach.

This has been a non functional offense for large stretches with Zach running it.  At least in the vision LaFleur has for it.

Plus most of us would have a tough time evaluating almost all of our offensive players given how bad the QB has been.

I strongly believe this will change.  Might tell us that Moore and Mims stink, but that’s something we needed to find out with a QB who has at least proven to throw an accurate pass on time.

Will Mike White lead us to the playoffs?  Don’t know but the Zach Wilson we’ve mostly seen seems to present a far bigger obstacle.

 

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58 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It will only be easy if White plays well.  If he bombs it will be a huge cluster fug.

It can’t get any worse. Even Zach’s good games were really just mediocre games where he didn’t have to contribute much. If Zach was an undrafted free agent signing, would he even still be on the roster? 
 

we know for a fact that Mike white can hit check downs and get rid of the ball quickly. His arm may not be as live as some of the really good qbs in the league but we do know that he can make quick decisions, which is really important in this offense and a big weakness in Zach’s game. White will not bring this offense to the next level, he’s a back up qb, but he should be able to utilize the talent better than Zach has.

 

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56 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

There are rarely times in life where the stars align to deliver a win win situation for all.

This was one of those objective times, stripping out the emotional outcries from the 10% minority.

1. Zach gets a chance to work on his mechanics and (independently) his mental state .. possibly with a sports psychologist.  This is not a game experience issue ..  His accuracy & propensity to ‘freeze’ run far deeper.  There is nothing wrong with sitting & learning with the opportunity to come back mentally ready.

2. The Offense gets a chance to showcase itself with an adequately suitable QB for this system.  Flack to the Future was a horrible fit.

Mike White can at least make quick decisions behind a makeshift line and effectively work the foundational short & intermediate passing games. .  Is he the future?  Most likely no.  Is he an average starter?  Most likely not.  But now is the time to prepare him for the Bears and see what he can do with weapons he didn’t have last year.  Guys like Garrett Wilson & Tyler Conklin come to mind.

The running & play action games get much needed breathing room in the form of fewer stacked boxes.

3. Mike LaFleur gets an opportunity to prove he is the right choice for the future.  How can he be fairly evaluated with the quality of quarterback play?

4. Elijah Moore & Denzel Mims?  Wilson repeatedly failed to connect with both.  We need to understand the root issue behind their lack of production.

5. JD gets an honest peak into a (near) fully functioning offense with a QB you don’t have to hide.  Critical inputs into how much of an influence Zach had on our current impressions of not only Moore & Mims, but guys like Tomlinson & Mitchell.  Inputs that feed into 2023 roster decisions on Corey Davis and draft decisions on OL & WR.

6. Saleh wisely took the opportunity to make the rest of the season about the Jets playoff run and less about his insistence on staying with Wilson.  In doing so, he has built even more buy-in within the locker room and credibility in the eyes of most fans & analysts.  

7. Woody gets a better shot at making the playoffs .. behind a QB the team & fans can rally behind. 

8. Ditto for us fans who deserve a watchable offense and a long awaited playoff berth.  
 

Also, which you are alluding to, we can determine and it should be the case that now and moving forward this team can plug QBs that may be around average i. e Minshew, Bridgewater, etc. and still win.

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8 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

As I mentioned in a different thread: Do we really think that Willson will be able to fix all the issues, physical and mental after one week of not playing?

No.  His issues are much deeper.  I believe White is the guy the rest of the way, with Wilson getting the occasional cameo drive or opportunity.

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12 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Also, which you are alluding to, we can determine and it should be the case that now and moving forward this team can plug QBs that may be around average i. e Minshew, Bridgewater, etc. and still win.

That's right.  If we can make a run with Mike White, he is either better than most of us think OR we will be that much better with an average QB.  This is an important anchor point that Wilson was incapable of confidently setting.

Not only do we have a better chance of making the playoffs, but we will be able to more confidently make the decisions necessary to take this team to the next level in 2023.  As a quick example, did the league use last year's tape on Elijah Moore to figure out how to defend him or did the QB fail him?  If it's the former, I'm considering using a first round pick on a WR.  If it's the latter and Moore tears it up with White, I'm much more confident with him moving forward.

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Definitely not easy but I wont be surprised if Mike White and the passing game have a great game, not just because it's the Bears but because he  seems like just a more fundamentally sound QB.  He does get the ball out quick and makes good decisions for the most part, he's not going to freeze up and not throw the ball on wide open first reads like Zach has been doing and his footwork isnt a mess and he's not going to bail from the pocket, stare pressure down or feel pressure that isnt there, all those things that prevent you from having a functional passing game.

 

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OP has some good points. To point #4, Mims root cause issue is that he's fundamentally unsound. Sloppy routes, jumps for the ball when he doesn't have to, is a body catcher by nature.

Couple of things about the timing of this. Starting White while benching Zach against this cupcake pass defense could backfire spectacularly. I'm all for taking the W, but if this was a game that would give Wilson a chance to get off the schnide, at least skill-wise (the issue of his locker room presence is mostly a seperate thing), well this could be a mistake going forward.

As for Mike White; I'll always remember players getting excited (MFing Mike WHITE!) when talking about him. That goes a long way, and we may reap the benefits of that with increased production from Moore et al. All about the Ws at this point. 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

It will only be easy if White plays well.  If he bombs it will be a huge cluster fug.

I cannot wait until the “Zach needs more time” savants want to kill White after 3 pass attempts if they aren’t all highlight reel magnificent.

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1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

There are rarely times in life where the stars align to deliver a win win situation for all.

This was one of those objective times, stripping out the emotional outcries from the 10% minority.

1. Zach gets a chance to work on his mechanics and (independently) his mental state .. possibly with a sports psychologist.  This is not a game experience issue ..  His accuracy & propensity to ‘freeze’ run far deeper.  There is nothing wrong with sitting & learning with the opportunity to come back mentally ready.

2. The Offense gets a chance to showcase itself with an adequately suitable QB for this system.  Flack to the Future was a horrible fit.

Mike White can at least make quick decisions behind a makeshift line and effectively work the foundational short & intermediate passing games. .  Is he the future?  Most likely no.  Is he an average starter?  Most likely not.  But now is the time to prepare him for the Bears and see what he can do with weapons he didn’t have last year.  Guys like Garrett Wilson & Tyler Conklin come to mind.

The running & play action games get much needed breathing room in the form of fewer stacked boxes.

3. Mike LaFleur gets an opportunity to prove he is the right choice for the future.  How can he be fairly evaluated with the quality of quarterback play?

4. Elijah Moore & Denzel Mims?  Wilson repeatedly failed to connect with both.  We need to understand the root issue behind their lack of production.

5. JD gets an honest peak into a (near) fully functioning offense with a QB you don’t have to hide.  Critical inputs into how much of an influence Zach had on our current impressions of not only Moore & Mims, but guys like Tomlinson & Mitchell.  Inputs that feed into 2023 roster decisions on Corey Davis and draft decisions on OL & WR.

6. Saleh wisely took the opportunity to make the rest of the season about the Jets playoff run and less about his insistence on staying with Wilson.  In doing so, he has built even more buy-in within the locker room and credibility in the eyes of most fans & analysts.  

7. Woody gets a better shot at making the playoffs .. behind a QB the team & fans can rally behind. 

8. Ditto for us fans who deserve a watchable offense and a long awaited playoff berth.  
 

Your entire premise is that White is better than Zach and so far looking at White's full body of work it is iffy at best to make that claim. I hope he is lights out but not sure this move is the spark people are hoping it is.

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6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

If white bombs, I think the OC will get a lot of heat

i think white will be ok. Not great. Not terrible. And that may be good enough.

That’s why the decision needed to be made.  Everyone has been screaming ‘we need to learn about Zach’.

****- we need to learn about LaFleur, Mims, Moore, Tomlinson, Mitchell, Uzomah, Conklin, our running game ..

Right now I’m

1. Optimistically bullish on Conklin

2. Confused about Moore & Uzomah

3. Intrigued by Mims & Mitchell

4. Iffy on Tomlinson & LaFleur


Mark my words, the picture will now become clearer!

 

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1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

There are rarely times in life where the stars align to deliver a win win situation for all.

This was one of those objective times, stripping out the emotional outcries from the 10% minority.

1. Zach gets a chance to work on his mechanics and (independently) his mental state .. possibly with a sports psychologist.  This is not a game experience issue ..  His accuracy & propensity to ‘freeze’ run far deeper.  There is nothing wrong with sitting & learning with the opportunity to come back mentally ready.

2. The Offense gets a chance to showcase itself with an adequately suitable QB for this system.  Flack to the Future was a horrible fit.

Mike White can at least make quick decisions behind a makeshift line and effectively work the foundational short & intermediate passing games. .  Is he the future?  Most likely no.  Is he an average starter?  Most likely not.  But now is the time to prepare him for the Bears and see what he can do with weapons he didn’t have last year.  Guys like Garrett Wilson & Tyler Conklin come to mind.

The running & play action games get much needed breathing room in the form of fewer stacked boxes.

3. Mike LaFleur gets an opportunity to prove he is the right choice for the future.  How can he be fairly evaluated with the quality of quarterback play?

4. Elijah Moore & Denzel Mims?  Wilson repeatedly failed to connect with both.  We need to understand the root issue behind their lack of production.

5. JD gets an honest peak into a (near) fully functioning offense with a QB you don’t have to hide.  Critical inputs into how much of an influence Zach had on our current impressions of not only Moore & Mims, but guys like Tomlinson & Mitchell.  Inputs that feed into 2023 roster decisions on Corey Davis and draft decisions on OL & WR.

6. Saleh wisely took the opportunity to make the rest of the season about the Jets playoff run and less about his insistence on staying with Wilson.  In doing so, he has built even more buy-in within the locker room and credibility in the eyes of most fans & analysts.  

7. Woody gets a better shot at making the playoffs .. behind a QB the team & fans can rally behind. 

8. Ditto for us fans who deserve a watchable offense and a long awaited playoff berth.  
 

Good post. It was the right and only decision to be made. I think some fans will be surprised by how functional this offense will be on Sunday with a competent QB. 

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10 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Your entire premise is that White is better than Zach and so far looking at White's full body of work it is iffy at best to make that claim. I hope he is lights out but not sure this move is the spark people are hoping it is.

I’ve written enough in this thread to demonstrate that is not my premise.  

It’s much more than that .. starting with what is most helpful for Zach (at this time) when you look at what he is struggling with.  Mechanics for example won’t be fixed by game experience.

Mike White has proven he can run a functional offense, one where the QB stays in the pocket and throws with timing and accuracy.

Hence, we get to see the  offense run as it should and as a byproduct get a better understanding of its parts and the sum of its parts.

Zach has been so bad for stretches that I strongly believe White will perform better.  Zach was neither a big play maker or a game manager.   I also believe the team will rally around White.  Both points improve our chances of making the playoffs.

 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Worst he can be is worst in the league.

Which is what Zach is now.

So….

The new york jets are 6-4 and have played some tough teams.

They now play a team they 100% for sure beat.  I they lose to the 3-8 bears who are tanking yeah it is a problem if White plays bad or blows it.

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25 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The new york jets are 6-4 and have played some tough teams.

They now play a team they 100% for sure beat.  I they lose to the 3-8 bears who are tanking yeah it is a problem if White plays bad or blows it.

Agreed. But there will be no evidence that the worst QB in the NFL would have done better.

These hypotheticals will drive you mad. Frankly, Mike White may have won last week. He couldn’t have been worse than Mr. -22vpassing yards the second half, right?

Let’s just hope. It’ll sort itself out.

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agreed. But there will be no evidence that the worst QB in the NFL would have done better.

These hypotheticals will drive you mad. Frankly, Mike White may have won last week. He couldn’t have been worse than Mr. -22vpassing yards the second half, right?

Let’s just hope. It’ll sort itself out.

Wilson beat the bills- weren’t you at that game? White threw 4 picks against a worse version of that defense. 

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agreed. But there will be no evidence that the worst QB in the NFL would have done better.

These hypotheticals will drive you mad. Frankly, Mike White may have won last week. He couldn’t have been worse than Mr. -22vpassing yards the second half, right?

Let’s just hope. It’ll sort itself out.

He is what 5-2 as the worst Qb in the league vs some tough teams and some road wins.  We now play a bad team and should thrash them if QB was the big problem which is how things have been painted.

It is the right move to make the change no question about it but now the offense, the wrs the coaches and the defense all of whom seemed to have put most of the blame on the QB better blinking well step up and have great games.  If the Jets lose this game after making the big change then fingers better start point in other directions.

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Just now, SuicidalSince98 said:

White threw 4 picks against a worse version of that defense. 

You guys will be surprised to learn that the 2021 Bills defense was better, by every metric, than the 2022 Bills defense, and the version Zach just “beat” was missing three of their four starting secondary players, along with Matt Milano. 

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