How did Joe Douglas Miss so bad?

[Paradis]

And compared to Mahomes

 

[Titan24]

Didn’t Ozzie Newsome draft kyle Boller?  It happens 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

13 minutes ago, Paradis said:

This and more. The lack of playing under pressure was glaring. I repeat, glaring… 

but they bet on a long shot and that needs be acknowledged. Wasn’t like a a big 10 QB with a good OLINE. 
 

 

This was the same knock on Fields before the draft.  He had some bad games in his final season vs Northwestern and Indiana I believe because he was pressured.  Sometimes a power school has such a physical advantage that the QB prospect is never pressured and the receivers are wide open (Mac Jones ). Drafting a QB is far from an exact science and drafts since 2018 are littered with QB misses.

[BloodGreen]

Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 
1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?
2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?
3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 
4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 
Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 
How did JD mess this up so bad?

I’m not convinced it’s a miss just yet. There is talent, but the mistake in my opinion was handing him the job day one. He needs a year, maybe more to mature, learn and refine his mechanics. A lot still needs to happen, but I still think he can be a very QB in the NFL, if he is willing to humble himself and put in the work.

[BloodGreen]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say they didn't do the work on Zach's character. They looked at the arm talent and his highlights but they breezed right by the douche baggery 

I disagree. He didn’t fondle a masseuse or beat his girlfriend. He has been aloof with the press and immature. There is room for growth, but he needs the space to do that. Holding a clipboard on the sideline might be exactly what he needs right now and I hope he will come back better for it.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, BloodGreen said:

 

I disagree. He didn’t fondle a masseuse or beat his girlfriend. He has been aloof with the press and immature. There is room for growth, but he needs the space to do that. Holding a clipboard on the sideline might be exactly what he needs right now and I hope he will come back better for it.

 

just because he's not a criminal doesn't mean he's a good person 

besides being aloof with the press he's been a dick to his teammates. at multiple occasions. remember when moore got disciplined and Zach's response was "gee I'd like to throw the ball more too"

he's a Jay Cutler level narcissist 

i agree this is probably the best thing for his development to be humbled and realize the world doesn't revolve around him 

[kevinc855]

8 minutes ago, BloodGreen said:

 

I’m not convinced it’s a miss just yet. There is talent, but the mistake in my opinion was handing him the job day one. He needs a year, maybe more to mature, learn and refine his mechanics. A lot still needs to happen, but I still think he can be a very QB in the NFL, if he is willing to humble himself and put in the work.

 

Maybe he will grow up but my question is How did we miss this 

[BloodGreen]

just because he's not a criminal doesn't mean he's a good person 
besides being aloof with the press he's been a dick to his teammates. at multiple occasions. remember when moore got disciplined and Zach's response was "gee I'd like to throw the ball more too"
he's a Jay Cutler level narcissist 
i agree this is probably the best thing for his development to be humbled and realize the world doesn't revolve around him 

Fair, I’m just for giving him more room to grow. He’s really young still and can learn how to handle himself better.

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, Sammybighead said:

First of all, JD didn't miss bad. JD, every coach and every scout missed bad. It was a group decision, they all independently evaluated all qbs, and all came to the same conclusion that zach was the guy. Everyone had a voice.

If you haven't read about the draft process the jets go through, Hughes has an article about, search it out. 

So JD was wrong, as everyone else? Is this the excuse? 

[Ken Schroy]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 

1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?

2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?

3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 

4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 

Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 

How did JD mess this up so bad?

Yes, I guess they should just cut him now eh skippy?

[BloodGreen]

Maybe he will grow up but my question is How did we miss this 

I would think his immaturity allowed his head to blow up after being gifted the QB1. This humble pie is long overdue , and can be a very valuable lesson. Who knows, but only time will tell. There is talent, so fingers crossed.

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, BloodGreen said:

Fair, I’m just for giving him more room to grow. He’s really young still and can learn how to handle himself better.

im not giving up on Zach this was his first real adversity and it will be telling how he responds to it 

the correct move is be quiet, work on his footwork and all the other stuff that coaches have been trying to teach him, for what I assume has been his whole life 

the back foot throws have to stop. the turning his back to pressure has to stop. he needs to stop staring at the pass rush. he needs to learn to find his open man and not in 6 seconds in 2.5 seconds or less

one thing We will see from Mike White this week that Zach never mastered is White goes through his reads. 1, 2, 3 bang it's gone. it's hard but it's also basic NFL level QBing. 

[BloodGreen]

im not giving up on Zach this was his first real adversity and it will be telling how he responds to it 
the correct move is be quiet, work on his footwork and all the other stuff that coaches have been trying to teach him, for what I assume has been his whole life 
the back foot throws have to stop. the turning his back to pressure has to stop. he needs to stop staring at the pass rush. he needs to learn to find his open man and not in 6 seconds in 2.5 seconds or less
one thing We will see from Mike White this week that Zach never mastered is White goes through his reads. 1, 2, 3 bang it's gone. it's hard but it's also basic NFL level QBing. 

Spot on! I am not a film watcher, but I did take some time to analyze the NE game and 2 things stood out to me. 1) his footwork is awful. Throwing to 12 o’clock and his feet are at 9 o’clock. No hip shift before the pass. 2) field vision, not getting through reads and finding the open receiver.

[kevinc855]

25 minutes ago, Ken Schroy said:

Yes, I guess they should just cut him now eh skippy?

No trade him 

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Name one current QB (besides  Rodgers a hundred years ago) who was drafted early, sat for an entire season, and is now a franchise QB.  I'll wait. 

 

I'll save you time. There isn't one, unless you want to count Mahomes, who played one game his rookie season sitting behind Alex Smith on a playoff team (the season before Mahomes was drafted -2016 -and the season after - 2017)

You keep making this point, but no NFL does this any more - ever.  You are citing a belief based on a practice that took place before the salary cap and rookie scale that is now completely obsolete.  

This 1975 model like  it's the Tex Schramm Cowboys  stockpiling talent and paying them dirt saving them  for the day the old player is done and the young one can step in is long gone. The whole idea now is every player in the early rounds is going to contribute ASAP. Under the cap, you are killing it if your young guys are performing before you have to write them a big ass 2nd contract. If theya ren't, they're gonna be gone. It's why Leonard WIlliams , Sam Darnold, and Jamal Adams are no longer here. And as a player, you want to get paid. Nobody is sticking around if the plan is they aren't playing. 

[southparkcpa]

I have been trashing JD since the 2020 draft bust. BUT, i give him a pass here. 

JD has righted the ship   

The 2021 and 2022 drafts are stellar except for Zach.   

BUT full honesty…tons of talk shows talked about problems with Zach in college.  

Lets fix it and move on.  

[kevinc855]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

im not giving up on Zach this was his first real adversity and it will be telling how he responds to it 

the correct move is be quiet, work on his footwork and all the other stuff that coaches have been trying to teach him, for what I assume has been his whole life 

the back foot throws have to stop. the turning his back to pressure has to stop. he needs to stop staring at the pass rush. he needs to learn to find his open man and not in 6 seconds in 2.5 seconds or less

one thing We will see from Mike White this week that Zach never mastered is White goes through his reads. 1, 2, 3 bang it's gone. it's hard but it's also basic NFL level QBing. 

If he can’t fix this by the second half of his second year to me that’s really concerning.

[bitonti]

56 minutes ago, Titan24 said:

Didn’t Ozzie Newsome draft kyle Boller?  It happens 

it's not that JD messed up at QB 

it's that he messed up at 2 overall 

it's the highest draft pick this franchise had in 30+ years and the team needed to hit rock bottom W-L to get it 

when you draft that high you simply can't miss 

for the record I wanted Sewell that draft didn't believe any of the QBs (except maybe Fields) was worth that pick 

people said I was a moron because they just drafted Becton and well wasn't that enough? 

the idea that the Jets needed to go QB at 2 in that draft was a fallacy- the team could have waited a year or two kept building and started vets or Mike White types until they found the right situation

JD forced it with Zach. it's like when you love someone so much in a relationship but you're blind to all their flaws because you need it to work so bad 

they didn't see any of his (obvious) flaws and were enamored with his so called upside 

[southparkcpa]

30 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

So JD was wrong, as everyone else? Is this the excuse? 

Yes.   We don’t bat a thousand.   I fault him for Becton. Not Zach as strange as that is

Zach was gone in top 10…….  

[Joe W. Namath]

Joe didnt miss.  Has zach come along as quickly as they would have liked?  No.

But he is the future here snd will get another opportunity later this year or next year to prove that.

This organization loves zach wilson.  He is their guy.  He is under contract for 2 more years and we be here that long minimum.

[Bugg]

21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

im not giving up on Zach this was his first real adversity and it will be telling how he responds to it 

the correct move is be quiet, work on his footwork and all the other stuff that coaches have been trying to teach him, for what I assume has been his whole life 

the back foot throws have to stop. the turning his back to pressure has to stop. he needs to stop staring at the pass rush. he needs to learn to find his open man and not in 6 seconds in 2.5 seconds or less

one thing We will see from Mike White this week that Zach never mastered is White goes through his reads. 1, 2, 3 bang it's gone. it's hard but it's also basic NFL level QBing. 

Lots of posters bitching about the OL; it's not the best, but these guys are good enough. A successful NFL QB has a mental clock -take a 2-3 step drop while getting your reads, get set, and the ball is out. The speed of the recievers is 4.5 40s; in 2-3 seconds, they're 20-30 yards into their pattern. Those plays that get extended and break down and QB finds the receiver can be spectacular, but they're the exceptions, not every passing play. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

If he can’t fix this by the second half of his second year to me that’s really concerning.

it is concerning but it's also a golden opportunity to become a real professional that listens to coaching and gets better

Zach isn't a loser like Jamarcus Russell or a drug addict like Ryan Leaf. Zach can (and will) get better the question is will it happen in 10 years like Geno Smith or will it happen within the framework of his rookie deal? 

he's not a bad person but his ego was out of control and he needed to be humbled 

 

[Sammybighead]

34 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

So JD was wrong, as everyone else? Is this the excuse? 

Nope. Not an excuse. Just correcting the thread title.

[68JET11]

2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 

1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?

2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?

3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 

4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 

Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 

How did JD mess this up so bad?

GM's are never perfect, if they were whatever team they work for would be in the SB every year most likely. JD has done a good job, and sometimes prospects don't turn out they way you want them to. Both JD and Saleh fell in love with his arm strength and the fact the kid could improvise. Problem with that is, we have a system that's suited for a guy who can make quick decisions. Nobody is at fault, unless they do the same thing with the next QB they pick. So he makes this up by selecting a QB in each draft, whether a high round pick of someone they think they can develop, each year from now on until we find one that can start, be effective and demonstrate he can win.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Douglas relied heavily on his coaching staff to pick a QB. LaFleur and Saleh loved Wilson and was a big part of the Jets picking Wilson if I am not mistaken.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

This was the same knock on Fields before the draft.  He had some bad games in his final season vs Northwestern and Indiana I believe because he was pressured.  Sometimes a power school has such a physical advantage that the QB prospect is never pressured and the receivers are wide open (Mac Jones ). Drafting a QB is far from an exact science and drafts since 2018 are littered with QB misses.

Imo it’s a bit of a stretch to relate the two. One is the absence of, the other is a resume blemish.

It’s not an exact science, you’re right. But I felt there was more cause for concern than Joe D on this one. It’s not a shocker at all ZW played out like this (to me anyway). 

[Paradis]

54 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach isn't a loser like Jamarcus Russell or a drug addict like Ryan Leaf. Zach can (and will) get better the question is will it happen in 10 years like Geno Smith or will it happen within the framework of his rookie deal? 

he's not a bad person but his ego was out of control and he needed to be humbled 

I agree with this. Zach could potentially come around but who knows when and what that looks like 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Douglas fell in love at a freaking pro day

Dude was walking around that indoor practice bubble giddy as a schoolgirl 

Embarrassing but true 

[BurntDice]

I’m thinking JD had Zach, Fields and maybe a lance fairly even and gave the choice to the coaching staff of who to pick. MLF has 0 experience developing young qbs as far as I know. 
 

The loss of Knapp was a much bigger deal than people can imagine. The vet coach who’s been around a ton of qbs. If he didn’t have the tragic accident I believe things would be much much different 

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Douglas fell in love at a freaking pro day

Dude was walking around that indoor practice bubble giddy as a schoolgirl 

Embarrassing but true 

that is probably true but the Zach to 2 overall stuff happened in like late Dec/early Jan before the CFB playoffs

that was the most suspicious part of the Zach Wilson scouting situation is that he did nothing no workouts, no senior bowl (not that he could as a junior) no combine and his stock just kept rising and rising for no real reason 

I talk alot of conspiracy theories but I've really resigned myself to never understanding how Zach Wilson went 2 

there was a guard named Danny Watkins who played at Baylor but was also a fireman and was like 26 at the senior bowl i'll never understand how that prospect went in the first round either 

some mysteries just don't get solved 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

The dumbest part of the entire “eval” was JD’s answer that they didn’t factor in level of competition at all

”You play who you play”

I mean ok so you’d draft a QB who dominated a community college schedule based on (what you see as) “elite tape”?

besides, there was plenty of negative scary tape on ZW

Just watch his sophomore game vs U of W

They had some pass rush ability and dudes in the secondary and ZW basically got trampled 

[Maynard13]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 

1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?

2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?

3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 

4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 

Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 

How did JD mess this up so bad?

How did you miss with a thread so bad.

[Larz]

Namaths curse 

[bitonti]

47 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I agree with this. Zach could potentially come around but who knows when and what that looks like 

this whole thing has upped my belief in saleh tbh. That Saleh press conference today was an absolute masterclass in handling the media and also in handling Gen Z type work force. 

whether Zach works out or not, whether Mike White plays like trash or not, Saleh's got the pulse of the locker room and showed excellent leadership. all those people saying saleh was such a hot coaching candidate for years, now I'm finally getting it.  

it's like watching someone parent the crap out of their kids in public without hitting them. It gives hope for the future. 

the HC was dead nuts accurate what's wrong with Zach can't be fixed while you're gameplanning for an NFL regular season foe. Zach needed to be humbled he did it in such a way that Zach won't hold a grudge and he has the opportunity to learn and improve from all this

there's a very real scenario where Wilson is the starter next year or the year after. These guys didn't trade Mims or Moore they aren't going to give up on Zach either. It just might take a while. 

[bitonti]

49 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The dumbest part of the entire “eval” was JD’s answer that they didn’t factor in level of competition at all

”You play who you play”

I mean ok so you’d draft a QB who dominated a community college schedule based on (what you see as) “elite tape”?

besides, there was plenty of negative scary tape on ZW

Just watch his sophomore game vs U of W

They had some pass rush ability and dudes in the secondary and ZW basically got trampled 

the coastal carolina loss wasn't good 

There's this play at the end of the first half, Zach does his signature spin move against air, throws a hail mary INT (fine, whatever), gets pancaked by the blockers and then the benches clear

the first block by 34 was legal, the second one by 94 wasn't but no flags. 

It irks me on many levels. First why was the BYU team reacting to Zach taking a hit like it was the worst thing ever?  Why can't Zach defend himself? is it because he's the QB or because he's fragile/injury prone? why isn't Zach trying to make the tackle even?  it's like this guy doesn't want contact he's standing around like he's waiting for an Uber, and they ended up losing that game. To Coastal Carolina. 

the whole exchange reeked of entitlement. He was Zach Wilson not late stage Wayne Gretzky but the bench felt the need to protect their guy so much they stormed the field. I just wish he did a better job protecting himself, but at least bounce back, get angry and win the game. Some guys you bloody their lip they turn it up. Zach turtles in the face of hits. 

the scouting report on Zach (which BB has mastered) is easy. He's allergic to contact. If you hit him he will panic and eventually make a mistake. That's just bad film and again it's against Coastal Carolina not Clemson.