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How did Joe Douglas Miss so bad?


kevinc855
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Douglas would be a world of sh*t, but he nailed the 2022 off-season - It went about as well as it possible could have. 

The list of players taken after Zach hurts to read - Like there's going to be Hall of Famers from that list - but if we had ended up with them we likely win our way out of getting Sauce. 

I should have stuck with my gut. Sewell was the pick. 

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7 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Joe didnt miss.  Has zach come along as quickly as they would have liked?  No.

But he is the future here snd will get another opportunity later this year or next year to prove that.

This organization loves zach wilson.  He is their guy.  He is under contract for 2 more years and we be here that long minimum.

Thats a stretch.    Cant think of a #2 pick benched this quickly before.  BUT we will see. 

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Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 
1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?
2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?
3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 
4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 
Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 
How did JD mess this up so bad?
Incredible talent ... Raw .. no plan after the Knapp tragedy.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

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9 hours ago, derp said:

This is a big one.

He also says the right things and seems like a competitive guy so I bet they bought into that hard. Douglas has a type at QB, competitive guy with arm talent. Wilson has arm talent. Morgan was a cheap version of a similar profile.

The arm talent is real and the college production was great. He also seemed very in control at moments in college so I think they thought that was in there but in retrospect it was probably the OL.

This is an offense that makes things easy on QB’s…I still don’t get why they took one at two. Should’ve picked up the phone when SF called.

+1. Zach has all the pieces and he would have been the first QB picked in 2022 and 2023. Even as exciting as Fields has been, his problems passing the ball fully justify picking Zach instead of him (and Lance, and Mac Jones, etc) in 21. On a strict draft-philosophy level, it’s hard to blame Douglas for taking the swing when he did. In retrospect, you take San Fran’s picks and try to find a veteran, but at the time? Why not try and create a super-Garoppolo of your own on a rookie deal

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9 hours ago, Paradis said:

This and more. The lack of playing under pressure was glaring. I repeat, glaring… 

but they bet on a long shot and that needs be acknowledged. Wasn’t like a a big 10 QB with a good OLINE. 
 

 

Lock is a good comparison because he was a tools guy who doesn’t understand the passing game at all. Nate Tice made the Zach-Lock comparison this week, saying that Lock seems to understand where one of his receivers is supposed to go on any given play and, if that guy is covered, it turns into a Benny Hill skit. You can see how playing a bunch of weak competition would reinforce that flaw.

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He’s a Baker Mayfield, Johnny Manziel type of QB. If White can just play average, Wilson may never take another snap for the New York Jets. If White performs well, then he is the quarterback next year and if he performs poorly, the Jets will go after Jimmy G or Minshew, or look to trade for a QB. The only way Wilson is starting next year if somehow he comes back this season and looks like a completely different quarterback. To me the only question left is whether the Jets would keep Wilson as a back up or do they just trade him to the highest bidder this off-season. 

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26 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Incredible talent ... Raw .. no plan after the Knapp tragedy.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

QB coaching is on the Jets.  They brought in his guy from CA to help last season.  For some reason not enough progress was made since then.  

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It's just the nature of the position. It's the hardest to predict. We've seen plenty of QBs with a high draft status from power 5 conferences come in and fail as well so I don't get too worked about the conference he played in. 

The biggest mistake, yet again, that the Jets made at the position in my opinion was not having a legitimate veteran QB that could start and play until Zach Wilson proved he was ready. We do this time and time again. We draft a kid high and just hand him the job. 

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10 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Name one current QB (besides  Rodgers a hundred years ago) who was drafted early, sat for an entire season, and is now a franchise QB.  I'll wait. 

 

I'll save you time. There isn't one, unless you want to count Mahomes, who played one game his rookie season sitting behind Alex Smith on a playoff team (the season before Mahomes was drafted -2016 -and the season after - 2017)

You keep making this point, but no NFL does this any more - ever.  You are citing a belief based on a practice that took place before the salary cap and rookie scale that is now completely obsolete.  

The belief is based on the fact that first round QBs drafted by bad teams fail at a ridiculously high rate when made the starter in year 1. It is too much for a rookie QB, they need to sit a year or 2 to  get up to NFL speed.

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Douglas jumped the gun on the great arm and quick release with Mahomes comparisons. I never wanted to trade Darnold for this bum said it then and still do. Looks like I was right. I feel like we would be 8-2 with Darnold at the helm this season. Also, does anyone else think Zach really isn't any better than Hackenberg which never got near the opportunity Zach is?

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8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The belief is based on the fact that first round QBs drafted by bad teams fail at a ridiculously high rate when made the starter in year 1. It is too much for a rookie QB, they need to sit a year or 2 to  get up to NFL speed.

yet Trevor and Fields are looking much better than Zach.

there are alot of 1st rd bust but some played well in year 2. statistically Zach is by far the worst in year 2.

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7 hours ago, bitonti said:

the coastal carolina loss wasn't good 

There's this play at the end of the first half, Zach does his signature spin move against air, throws a hail mary INT (fine, whatever), gets pancaked by the blockers and then the benches clear

the first block by 34 was legal, the second one by 94 wasn't but no flags. 

It irks me on many levels. First why was the BYU team reacting to Zach taking a hit like it was the worst thing ever?  Why can't Zach defend himself? is it because he's the QB or because he's fragile/injury prone? why isn't Zach trying to make the tackle even?  it's like this guy doesn't want contact he's standing around like he's waiting for an Uber, and they ended up losing that game. To Coastal Carolina. 

the whole exchange reeked of entitlement. He was Zach Wilson not late stage Wayne Gretzky but the bench felt the need to protect their guy so much they stormed the field. I just wish he did a better job protecting himself, but at least bounce back, get angry and win the game. Some guys you bloody their lip they turn it up. Zach turtles in the face of hits. 

the scouting report on Zach (which BB has mastered) is easy. He's allergic to contact. If you hit him he will panic and eventually make a mistake. That's just bad film and again it's against Coastal Carolina not Clemson. 

 

Coastal was a high top 10 ranked team that year, and is good enough to be favored over BYU every year

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Wilson was the clear #2 pick that year by almost every measurable. The only reason he didn’t go 1 is because it was one of those rare drafts where a guy like Lawrence is there, otherwise Wilson is probably a Jaguar. The numbers and workouts said he was more probable than not but welcome to drafting. Hard to fault Douglas for taking Wilson, most other teams would have done the same thing in the same spot. 

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25 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Douglas jumped the gun on the great arm and quick release with Mahomes comparisons. I never wanted to trade Darnold for this bum said it then and still do. Looks like I was right. I feel like we would be 8-2 with Darnold at the helm this season. Also, does anyone else think Zach really isn't any better than Hackenberg which never got near the opportunity Zach is?

The Darnold trade was a great move.

Don't like the Zach pick, fine...But keeping Sam made no sense.  Getting a 2 for him was a coup.

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9 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Joe didnt miss.  Has zach come along as quickly as they would have liked?  No.

But he is the future here snd will get another opportunity later this year or next year to prove that.

This organization loves zach wilson.  He is their guy.  He is under contract for 2 more years and we be here that long minimum.

 

I don’t think it’s only JD’s fault. It’s an organizational mistake.

GM, HC,  OC, QB coach and last but certainly not least, Zach himself.

The physical tools are there, boy have we all said that before (Sanchez, Sam…)

Unless some team offers JD a high enough draft pick, yeah he’ll  still be here.

Dare I ask, if Andy Reid, Sean Payton or even in Daboll were at the helm, where’d Zach be after 20 games under his belt?

exactly. It couldn’t be worse.

It’s everyone’s fault that we’re back at square one.

sad.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

+1. Zach has all the pieces and he would have been the first QB picked in 2022 and 2023. Even as exciting as Fields has been, his problems passing the ball fully justify picking Zach instead of him (and Lance, and Mac Jones, etc) in 21. On a strict draft-philosophy level, it’s hard to blame Douglas for taking the swing when he did. In retrospect, you take San Fran’s picks and try to find a veteran, but at the time? Why not try and create a super-Garoppolo of your own on a rookie deal

Raw talent is there, the intelligence is there.  Coaches and gms always think they can mold/change qbs to what they want, so there’s an overconfidence on the drafting team’s part.

also, an underrated element of drafting qbs is the impact of overall maturity.  Sanchez, geno and ZW were all quite immature coming out of college and while that’s not a crime, nor is it rare, it makes it all the more difficult to train.  

with ZW, they’re really fighting his arrogance.  It’s a huge problem to say to the media that the system is boring and throwing the ball away is boring.  Then when they neutered him vs NE you take away that arrogance and confidence in making downfield throws which is why you drafted him in the first place. 

Hopefully ZW will finally embrace the ‘boring’ noting of working on footwork and other fundamentals.  Also hopefully he’s realized that his arm and legs alone are not enough at this level.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, doitny said:

yet Trevor and Fields are looking much better than Zach.

there are alot of 1st rd bust but some played well in year 2. statistically Zach is by far the worst in year 2.

I don’t disagree with this observation, but I remain steadfast in my view that only the most exceptional rookies (andrew luck) should start from day 1.

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11 hours ago, bitonti said:

im not giving up on Zach this was his first real adversity and it will be telling how he responds to it 

the correct move is be quiet, work on his footwork and all the other stuff that coaches have been trying to teach him, for what I assume has been his whole life 

the back foot throws have to stop. the turning his back to pressure has to stop. he needs to stop staring at the pass rush. he needs to learn to find his open man and not in 6 seconds in 2.5 seconds or less

one thing We will see from Mike White this week that Zach never mastered is White goes through his reads. 1, 2, 3 bang it's gone. it's hard but it's also basic NFL level QBing. 

Also needs to stay in the pocket and take the hit if that’s what the timing passes require. Personally I don’t see the kid fixing anything, don’t care either. I just want to watch the Jets win football games. 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

+1. Zach has all the pieces and he would have been the first QB picked in 2022 and 2023. Even as exciting as Fields has been, his problems passing the ball fully justify picking Zach instead of him (and Lance, and Mac Jones, etc) in 21. On a strict draft-philosophy level, it’s hard to blame Douglas for taking the swing when he did. In retrospect, you take San Fran’s picks and try to find a veteran, but at the time? Why not try and create a super-Garoppolo of your own on a rookie deal

I was firmly anti QB at 2 once Fields fell off a little, very pro trade down, and would’ve preferred Fields to Wilson because I thought the running would’ve let him stay competitive while he developed as a passer - so I’m feeling pretty good.

Love Saleh but I thought Daboll developing Fields would’ve been good before they hired Saleh and looking at how Fields is producing in an offense built to help him develop and what Daboll is doing with a gross Giants roster I continue to think that would’ve been good.

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12 minutes ago, derp said:

I was firmly anti QB at 2 once Fields fell off a little, very pro trade down, and would’ve preferred Fields to Wilson because I thought the running would’ve let him stay competitive while he developed as a passer - so I’m feeling pretty good.

Love Saleh but I thought Daboll developing Fields would’ve been good before they hired Saleh and looking at how Fields is producing in an offense built to help him develop and what Daboll is doing with a gross Giants roster I continue to think that would’ve been good.

Fields has a separated shoulder and takes way too many hits.  If he were here we’d all be lamenting how he won’t last 5 years.  Not the right qb, but his talent is undeniable.

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50 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

 

I don’t think it’s only JD’s fault. It’s an organizational mistake.

GM, HC,  OC, QB coach and last but certainly not least, Zach himself.

 

JD is the boss with the final say - it's his decision and his alone. People complained about the Gase structure HC = to GM. That was changed w/JD. He needs to be held accountable for wasting the most valuable asset (#2 OA) the Jets have had for many many years.

Think about the SF trade down offer, Pitts, Sewel and fat Joe - 13 years as a NFL scout - gambles on Zach. I don't trust JD to pick our next QB.

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